13:57:32 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:57:32 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/14-dap-irc 13:57:34 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:57:34 Zakim has joined #dap 13:57:36 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:57:36 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes 13:57:37 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 13:57:37 Date: 14 September 2011 13:58:28 fjh has joined #dap 13:58:45 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0072.html 13:58:47 trackbot, start eleconferenc 13:58:47 Sorry, fjh, I don't understand 'trackbot, start eleconferenc'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 13:58:51 trackbot, start teleconference 13:58:54 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:58:56 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:58:56 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 13:58:57 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 13:58:57 Date: 14 September 2011 14:00:53 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 14:01:00 +??P2 14:01:01 Zakim, ??P2 is me 14:01:01 +dom; got it 14:01:06 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0072.html 14:01:07 Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux 14:01:47 Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch 14:01:54 Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch 14:01:56 Cathy has joined #dap 14:02:19 wonsuk has joined #dap 14:02:45 fjh_ has joined #dap 14:03:37 Present+ Cathy_Chan 14:03:45 +??P5 14:03:50 Zakim, ??P5 is me 14:03:50 +darobin; got it 14:03:56 +??P7 14:04:01 zakim, ?? is me 14:04:01 +fjh; got it 14:04:35 zakim, who is here? 14:04:41 +wonsuk 14:04:44 ernesto_jimenez has joined #dap 14:04:47 On the phone I see dom, darobin, fjh, wonsuk 14:04:51 On IRC I see fjh_, wonsuk, Cathy, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, Dzung_Tran, darobin, lgombos, wmaslowski, ingmar, trackbot, dom 14:05:18 Present+ Wonsuk_Lee 14:05:20 +Josh_Soref 14:05:26 Claes has joined #dap 14:06:06 + +44.778.611.aaaa 14:06:12 Josh_Soref has joined #dap 14:06:17 +??P3 14:06:23 Present+ Ernesto_Jimenez 14:06:26 zakim, ??P3 is me 14:06:26 +Cathy; got it 14:06:40 Zakim, who is on the call? 14:06:40 On the phone I see dom, darobin, fjh, wonsuk, Josh_Soref, +44.778.611.aaaa, Cathy 14:06:46 Zakim, aaaa is me 14:06:46 +ernesto_jimenez; got it 14:06:46 RRSAgent: make minutes 14:06:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/14-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 14:07:01 zakim, who is here? 14:07:02 + +46.1.08.01.aabb 14:07:04 On the phone I see dom, darobin, fjh, wonsuk, Josh_Soref, ernesto_jimenez, Cathy, +46.1.08.01.aabb 14:07:06 On IRC I see Josh_Soref, Claes, ernesto_jimenez, fjh_, wonsuk, Cathy, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, Dzung_Tran, darobin, lgombos, wmaslowski, ingmar, trackbot, dom 14:07:34 zakim, aabb is claes 14:07:34 +claes; got it 14:07:43 Present+ Josh_Soref 14:07:56 Scribe: Josh_Soref 14:08:01 RRSAgent: make minutes 14:08:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/14-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 14:08:12 Present+ Claes_Nilsson 14:08:20 Topic: Administrative 14:08:21 TPAC 2011 Plenary Day (wed) request for ideas, http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2011/SessionIdeas 14:08:21 TPAC registration reminder, fee goes up after 14 October - http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/#Registrati 14:08:22 DAP meeting Thur/Fri 3-4 November, http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/#Finalized 14:08:22 OMM-XG, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0070.html 14:08:22 Additional Editors tools, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2011Sep/0001.html 14:08:30 -> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2011/registrants#DeviceAP Current list of registrants for DAP F2F at TPAC 14:08:50 -> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2011/SessionIdeas Session Ideas for Plenary day during TPAC 14:09:32 Topic: OMM-XG Comments 14:09:47 fjh: darobin, I see you responded to OMM 14:09:49 AnssiK has joined #dap 14:09:52 ... I'm glad you responded 14:09:56 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:10:07 ... I didn't understand what they were asking about 14:10:10 Topic: Minutes Approval 14:10:12 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/att-0049/minutes-2011-09-07.html 14:10:24 q+ re reminder on rejoining the group 14:10:32 proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 7 September 2011 are approved 14:10:45 ack dom 14:10:45 dom, you wanted to discuss reminder on rejoining the group 14:10:48 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 7 September 2011 are approved 14:10:59 Topic: Rejoining the Group 14:11:12 fjh: If you haven't rejoined the group, your AC rep will have to rejoin you 14:11:28 [ otherwise you will be dropped shortly ] 14:11:34 (deadline for rejoining before being kicked out is October 3) 14:11:35 Topic: Battery 14:11:38 Demo, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0055.html (Anssi) 14:11:38 Additional updates, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0069.html (Anssi) 14:11:39 Additional comments, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0071.html (Cathy) 14:11:50 zakim, who is here? 14:11:50 On the phone I see dom, darobin, fjh, wonsuk, Josh_Soref, ernesto_jimenez, Cathy, claes 14:11:54 On IRC I see AnssiK, Josh_Soref, Claes, ernesto_jimenez, fjh_, wonsuk, Cathy, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, Dzung_Tran, darobin, lgombos, wmaslowski, ingmar, trackbot, dom 14:11:54 +??P8 14:12:00 zakim, ??P8 is me 14:12:00 +AnssiK; got it 14:12:45 AnssiK: I sent a couple of emails this morning 14:12:51 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0071.html 14:13:15 q? 14:13:27 AnssiK: there's now a table in the specification 14:14:07 q+ to ask for the table to have an id 14:14:19 Cathy: yes, the table is what I was looking for 14:14:34 http://www.w3.org/mid/3D0121DE-0369-4868-985C-19B5438502AE@nokia.com 14:15:23 q? 14:15:30 [ AnssiK talks about various proposals relating battery presence ] 14:15:40 darobin: i'm not sure we have a use case for battery presence 14:15:47 ... but i think we need interoperability 14:16:03 AnssiK: what do you think about the current behavior of using null? 14:16:18 ... although here null doesn't distinguish between and 14:16:26 ... adding new attributes seems like overkill 14:16:35 ... but overloading semantics can lead to problems too 14:16:51 ack josh_soref 14:16:51 Josh_Soref, you wanted to ask for the table to have an id 14:16:53 ... for instance, indexOf() yields -1 when not found, which confuses some people 14:17:07 darobin: I think I can live with null covering multiple cases 14:17:21 ... if we need to distinguish later, we can add a field 14:17:37 AnssiK: ok, i'll add a description indicating that null covers both cases 14:17:53 Josh_Soref: AnssiK, could you add an anchor for the table you added for Cathy so people can link to it? 14:18:40 http://www.w3.org/mid/323580B5-0597-42C7-8C22-1F433F140388@nokia.com 14:19:36 AnssiK: ok, i'll do it 14:19:49 ACTION Josh to get his CVS working; or migrate specs he might patch to Mercurial 14:19:50 Created ACTION-450 - Get his CVS working; or migrate specs he might patch to Mercurial [on Josh Soref - due 2011-09-21]. 14:20:06 Josh_Soref: of note, i also sent a response on the topic of batteries 14:20:38 q+ 14:20:47 ack AnssiK 14:22:36 1. BatteryStatusEventSource 2. navigator.battery.start 3. navigator.getBattery 14:23:00 fjh: the third one seems simplest 14:23:05 ... start is kind of wierd 14:23:34 AnssiK: should we publish again? 14:23:42 fjh: we're not going to do LC today anyway 14:23:48 ... we might as well publish since we' 14:23:51 Zakim, mute Josh_Soref 14:23:51 Josh_Soref should now be muted 14:23:58 s/we'/we've made lots of changes/ 14:24:14 AnssiK: ok, i think it's good to do a snapshot (heartbeat) 14:24:24 ... people are referencing /TR/ which is really old 14:24:24 +1 14:24:26 +1 on heartbeat 14:24:30 +1 on heartbeat 14:24:42 proposed RESOLUTION publish an updated WD of Battery 14:24:54 ACTION Robin to publish heartbeat of Battery 14:24:54 Created ACTION-451 - Publish heartbeat of Battery [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-09-21]. 14:24:57 RESOLUTION publish an updated WD of Battery 14:25:23 AnssiK: let me add the anchor tag and the other change 14:25:31 ... it should be ready in an hour 14:25:36 darobin: ping me when it's ready 14:26:08 Topic: Contacts 14:26:26 fjh: we need to review the charter. 14:26:31 zakim, who is here? 14:26:31 On the phone I see dom, darobin, fjh, wonsuk, Josh_Soref (muted), ernesto_jimenez, Cathy, claes, AnssiK 14:26:33 On IRC I see AnssiK, Josh_Soref, Claes, ernesto_jimenez, fjh_, wonsuk, Cathy, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, Dzung_Tran, darobin, lgombos, wmaslowski, ingmar, trackbot, dom 14:26:36 ... I think we're supposed to get to CR this year 14:26:42 ... I'm not sure we're going to make it 14:26:46 Topic: Feature Permissions 14:27:00 revised example, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Sep/0006.html 14:27:33 q? 14:27:47 wmaslowski has left #dap 14:28:20 +1 on getting progress elsewhere; what's our status wrt discovery? 14:28:35 [ no one to talk about Feature Permissions ] 14:28:46 Topic: Contacts 14:28:52 fjh: Josh you had some actions on PoCo 14:28:53 q+ 14:29:00 ack Josh_Soref 14:29:45 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0094.html 14:29:55 That should resolve my Action for PoCo 14:30:04 in short, PoCo is underspecified 14:30:09 ACTION-429? 14:30:09 ACTION-429 -- Josh Soref to figure out if the PoCo handling of personal names is okay under I18N rules -- due 2011-07-26 -- OPEN 14:30:09 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/429 14:30:18 close ACTION-429 14:30:18 ACTION-429 Figure out if the PoCo handling of personal names is okay under I18N rules closed 14:31:03 josh_soref: the idea was to see if PoCo could solve internationalization problems for DAP, but it cannot, so not helpful 14:31:43 darobin: the problem is that none of the Contact systems address internationalization 14:31:51 ... (vCard, ...) 14:32:01 ... I don't think it's something we should solve 14:32:06 ... It isn't our responsibility 14:32:10 ... but since we're exposing it to the web 14:32:22 ... we could ask the vCard people why they haven't done better effort 14:32:23 q+ 14:32:30 ... I'm not sure how to drive that 14:32:35 ack josh_soref 14:33:04 does W3C have an interest group for internationalization that could look at this? 14:33:39 some info about names and i18n http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names 14:33:51 [yes, I18N could look at this, not sure of their bandwidth] 14:35:35 josh_soref: implementation should not be parsing field information, just pass it on 14:36:12 josh_soref: this should be a SHOULD in our spec 14:36:20 s/SHOULD/SHOULD NOT/ 14:37:01 zakim, who is here? 14:37:01 On the phone I see dom, darobin, fjh, wonsuk, Josh_Soref, ernesto_jimenez, Cathy, claes, AnssiK 14:37:03 On IRC I see AnssiK, Josh_Soref, Claes, ernesto_jimenez, fjh_, wonsuk, Cathy, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, Dzung_Tran, darobin, lgombos, ingmar, trackbot, dom 14:37:11 q+ to ask about contact actions 14:37:29 We could provide "Formal Name", "Titled Name", "Name for Personal Address" 14:37:39 "Name for Mailing Address" 14:38:48 ACTION ernesto_jimenez to work with josh on a proposal 14:38:48 Sorry, couldn't find user - ernesto_jimenez 14:39:12 ACTION Ernesto to work with Josh on a proposal for Contacts names 14:39:12 Created ACTION-452 - Work with Josh on a proposal for Contacts names [on Ernesto Jimenez - due 2011-09-21]. 14:40:09 ack fjh 14:40:09 fjh, you wanted to ask about contact actions 14:40:17 ACTION-421? 14:40:17 ACTION-421 -- Ernesto Jimenez to add use cases and requirements, with examples, to Contacts as an example of the way this should be done throughout. Input from https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2011-July/017456.html may be useful. -- due 2011-07-26 -- OPEN 14:40:17 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/421 14:40:33 ernesto_jimenez: I was waiting for access to CVS 14:40:45 ... and dom informed me that I had a CVS account that I didn't know about 14:40:54 ... so now I should be able to work on that 14:41:07 fjh: ok, so it isn't dead, it's just a question of when 14:41:13 ernesto_jimenez: yes 14:41:25 ACTION-428? 14:41:25 ACTION-428 -- Robin Berjon to make a proposal for a common Address interface for Geo/Contacts that keeps Contacts aligned with PoCo, provides a base class, shows how Geo could derive on its side -- due 2011-07-26 -- OPEN 14:41:25 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/428 14:41:25 fjh: darobin: you have an action relating to Contacts as well 14:41:57 q+ to ask about next steps for discovery 14:42:59 ack dom 14:42:59 dom, you wanted to ask about next steps for discovery 14:43:05 Josh_Soref: note that going i18n friendly would make us out of sync with vCard/PoCo/... 14:43:16 fjh: that would raise an important issue 14:43:24 ... we made that decision differently earlier 14:43:53 fjh: a brief proposal would be best as a start 14:44:05 Topic: Discovery 14:44:11 q+ to ask about joiners 14:44:17 q+ to remind I did a proposal for ACTION-432 and didn't get any feedback or discussion 14:44:53 ACTION-432? 14:44:53 ACTION-432 -- Ernesto Jimenez to make a proposal for ISSUE-116 and ISSUE-117 -- due 2011-07-27 -- CLOSED 14:44:53 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/432 14:44:54 ack josh_soref 14:44:54 Josh_Soref, you wanted to ask about joiners 14:45:01 ISSUE-116? 14:45:01 ISSUE-116 -- HTML Media Capture doesn't make sense if accept=image and capture=microphone -- open 14:45:01 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/116 14:45:06 ISSUE-117? 14:45:06 ISSUE-117 -- Should HTML Media Capture have options for front/user camera as in getUserMedia -- open 14:45:06 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/117 14:45:09 -wonsuk 14:45:10 dom: What are our next steps for discovery 14:45:23 ... given that we have a draft submission 14:45:31 Claes: I promised to do an analysis 14:45:39 Zakim: mute me 14:45:44 Zakim, mute me 14:45:44 Josh_Soref should now be muted 14:45:51 q? 14:45:55 [we're also waiting for input from the TV people] 14:45:55 Claes: my plan is to have something before the end of September 14:45:56 ack ernesto 14:45:57 ernesto_jimenez, you wanted to remind I did a proposal for ACTION-432 and didn't get any feedback or discussion 14:46:03 q+ to ask about joiners 14:46:07 ACTION-432? 14:46:07 ACTION-432 -- Ernesto Jimenez to make a proposal for ISSUE-116 and ISSUE-117 -- due 2011-07-27 -- CLOSED 14:46:07 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/432 14:46:17 ack me 14:46:18 ISSUE-116? 14:46:18 ISSUE-116 -- HTML Media Capture doesn't make sense if accept=image and capture=microphone -- open 14:46:18 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/116 14:46:19 Josh_Soref, you wanted to ask about joiners 14:46:43 Josh_Soref: my understanding of discovery was that other companies would join to help 14:46:43 Josh_Soref: my impression on discovery is that we're expecting other companies to join the WG to do work in this area 14:46:48 ... did that ever happen? 14:47:04 darobin: i believe one company has joined 14:47:14 ... some other companies were already on the working group 14:47:22 dom: there's a chicken-and-egg problem 14:47:35 ... i think some companies are waiting to see if there's momentum before joining 14:47:48 ... if the group intends to work in this area 14:47:57 ... my advice is that we should be active in this space 14:48:12 ... otherwise they're likely to move somewhere else 14:48:30 darobin: what would the next steps be? 14:48:40 ... do we want to wait on the comparison of both approaches? 14:48:49 ... do we want to import both into Mercurial? 14:49:16 dom: maybe having more formal calls for reviews would be in order 14:49:26 ... we may want to start recruiting editors for that work 14:50:08 darobin: my understanding was that rich was interested in being an editor if the work was along the lines of what he drafted 14:50:51 ACTION Robin to send out email calling for comments on discovery 14:50:51 Created ACTION-453 - Send out email calling for comments on discovery [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-09-21]. 14:51:25 ACTION-432? 14:51:25 ACTION-432 -- Ernesto Jimenez to make a proposal for ISSUE-116 and ISSUE-117 -- due 2011-07-27 -- CLOSED 14:51:25 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/432 14:51:31 Topic: Media Capture 14:51:33 ISSUE-116? 14:51:33 ISSUE-116 -- HTML Media Capture doesn't make sense if accept=image and capture=microphone -- open 14:51:33 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/116 14:51:38 ISSUE-117? 14:51:38 ISSUE-117 -- Should HTML Media Capture have options for front/user camera as in getUserMedia -- open 14:51:38 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/117 14:51:51 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0023.html proposal 14:52:51 ACTION Robin to reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0023.html 14:52:51 Created ACTION-454 - Reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0023.html [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-09-21]. 14:54:10 -ernesto_jimenez 14:54:13 fjh: ernesto_jimenez, please send a reminder about that to the list -- it fell through the cracks 14:54:24 fjh: We also need to review the LC comments 14:54:38 +ernesto_jimenez 14:55:00 zakim, who is here? 14:55:00 On the phone I see dom, darobin, fjh, Josh_Soref, Cathy, claes, AnssiK, ernesto_jimenez 14:55:02 On IRC I see AnssiK, Josh_Soref, Claes, ernesto_jimenez, fjh_, wonsuk, Cathy, fjh, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, lgombos, ingmar, trackbot, dom 14:55:09 [ Adjourned ] 14:55:19 RRSAgent: make minutes 14:55:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/14-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref 14:55:20 -dom 14:55:21 RRSAgent: bye 14:55:21 I see no action items 14:55:22 -AnssiK