IRC log of webtv on 2011-09-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:53:11 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
14:53:14 [kaz_]
Meeting: Media Pipeline Task Force Teleconf
14:53:45 [JanL]
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14:55:47 [Zakim]
UW_WebTVIG()11:00AM has now started
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14:55:54 [Clarke]
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14:56:46 [francois]
[Regrets for this call. I'm on a call for the WebRTC working group. I'll monitor IRC]
14:56:48 [Zakim]
+ +44.789.470.aaaa
14:58:00 [francois]
14:58:08 [francois]
Chair: Clarke
14:58:58 [igarashi]
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14:59:10 [Zakim]
14:59:58 [kaz_]
zakim, call kazuyuki-617
14:59:58 [Zakim]
ok, kaz_; the call is being made
14:59:58 [aizu]
aizu has joined #webtv
14:59:59 [Zakim]
15:00:19 [kaz_]
zakim, who is here?
15:00:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P30, +44.789.470.aaaa, ??P49, Kazuyuki
15:00:20 [Zakim]
On IRC I see aizu, igarashi, Clarke, duncanr, JanL, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz_, francois, trackbot
15:00:24 [Zakim]
+ +
15:00:40 [kaz_]
zakim, aabb is Jan
15:00:42 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
15:01:01 [kaz_]
zakim, aaaa is Dancun
15:01:06 [kaz_]
zakim, who is here?
15:01:18 [kaz_]
zakim, ??P30 is Clarke
15:01:20 [Zakim]
+Dancun; got it
15:01:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P30, Dancun, ??P49, Kazuyuki, Jan
15:01:44 [Zakim]
+Clarke; got it
15:01:49 [kaz_]
zakim, Dancun is Duncan
15:01:54 [Zakim]
On IRC I see aizu, igarashi, Clarke, duncanr, JanL, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz_, francois, trackbot
15:02:02 [Zakim]
15:02:03 [kaz_]
zakim, who is here?
15:02:18 [Zakim]
+Duncan; got it
15:02:26 [Zakim]
15:02:34 [Bob]
Bob has joined #webtv
15:02:48 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Clarke, Duncan, ??P49, Kazuyuki, Jan, ??P7, Joseph_Scheuhammer
15:03:00 [Russell]
Russell has joined #webtv
15:03:18 [kaz_]
zakim, Joseph_Scheuhammer is Russell
15:03:26 [kaz_]
zakim, who is here?
15:03:33 [igarashi]
zakim ??p49 is igarashi
15:03:45 [kaz_]
zakim, ??P7 is Bob
15:03:56 [kaz_]
zakim, ??P49 is Igarashi
15:04:08 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Bob, aizu, igarashi, Clarke, duncanr, JanL, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz_, francois, trackbot
15:04:12 [Zakim]
15:04:28 [kaz_]
zakim, ??P8 is Aizu
15:04:34 [Zakim]
+Russell; got it
15:04:42 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Clarke, Duncan, ??P49, Kazuyuki, Jan, ??P7, Russell, ??P8
15:04:50 [Zakim]
+Bob; got it
15:04:52 [Zakim]
+Igarashi; got it
15:05:08 [Zakim]
15:05:10 [Zakim]
+Aizu; got it
15:05:20 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Russell, Bob, aizu, igarashi, Clarke, duncanr, JanL, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz_, francois, trackbot
15:05:34 [kaz_]
zakim, ??P29 is Eric
15:05:50 [Zakim]
+Eric; got it
15:05:51 [Clarke]
15:05:52 [Zakim]
15:06:36 [Zakim]
15:06:42 [Zakim]
15:07:01 [Zakim]
+ +1.678.795.aacc
15:07:20 [kaz_]
zakim, ??P56 is Eric
15:07:20 [Zakim]
+Eric; got it
15:07:29 [kaz_]
zakim, ??P58 is Juhani
15:07:29 [Zakim]
+Juhani; got it
15:07:33 [Juhani]
Juhani has joined #webtv
15:07:51 [kaz_]
zakim, aacc is Steven_Wright
15:07:51 [Zakim]
+Steven_Wright; got it
15:08:57 [kaz_]
topic: Update on issues from last week
15:09:03 [kaz_]
clarke: bob, any update?
15:09:17 [kaz_]
topic: Merging of issue-18 and issue-39 (Bob and Jan)
15:09:44 [kaz_]
jan: we can continue the discussion offline on the reflector
15:10:12 [kaz_]
bob: my issue-39's point was types of metadata
15:10:19 [Zakim]
+ +1.215.286.aadd
15:10:20 [davidmays]
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15:10:21 [kaz_]
... while 18 was more generic
15:10:31 [kaz_]
... I'll post comments on the reflector
15:10:37 [kaz_]
jan: we have bug reports
15:10:38 [eric]
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15:10:49 [kaz_]
... would like to talk about the bug
15:11:13 [kaz_]
kaz: which bug?
15:11:25 [kaz_]
jan: 389 is related to 18
15:11:33 [kaz_]
15:11:39 [kaz_]
... HTML5 bug
15:12:04 [kaz_]
zakim, aadd is Dave_Mays
15:12:04 [Zakim]
+Dave_Mays; got it
15:12:13 [kaz_]
clarke: good suggestion
15:12:30 [kaz_]
... requirements comes from these issues are good
15:12:34 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.867.aaee
15:13:07 [kaz_]
kaz: will they create a new issue based on the discussion?
15:13:18 [kaz_]
jan: the conclusion depends on the discussion
15:13:29 [kaz_]
bob: discussion first
15:14:13 [kaz_]
jan: can I reopen HTML5 bugs which has been already closed?
15:16:01 [kaz_]
kaz: you should be able to send a message to the public list
15:16:31 [kaz_]
clarke: one of the bugs is closed but another is still open
15:17:14 [Clarke]
The other 3 are still open
15:17:23 [kaz_]
s/another/the other 3/
15:17:28 [kaz_]
15:17:52 [kaz_]
clarke: should we ask HTML WG to reopen 13333?
15:19:07 [igarashi]
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15:19:10 [kaz_]
action: jan to send a message to HTML WG public list and talk with the group about how to deal with the closed bugs, e.g., 13333
15:19:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-75 - Send a message to HTML WG public list and talk with the group about how to deal with the closed bugs, e.g., 13333 [on Jan Lindquist - due 2011-09-15].
15:19:42 [Zakim]
+ +1.503.712.aaff
15:19:57 [kaz_]
jan: just to clarify, how to refer closed bug
15:20:22 [kaz_]
zakim, aaff is Narm
15:20:22 [Zakim]
+Narm; got it
15:20:36 [narm_gadiraju]
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15:21:03 [kaz_]
zakim, who is here?
15:21:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Clarke, Duncan, Igarashi, Kazuyuki, Jan, Bob, Russell, Aizu, Eric, Juhani, Steven_Wright, Dave_Mays, +1.415.867.aaee, Narm
15:21:06 [Zakim]
On IRC I see narm_gadiraju, igarashi, eric, davidmays, Juhani, Russell, Bob, aizu, Clarke, duncanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz_, francois, trackbot
15:21:26 [kaz_]
topic: Clarify wording on issue 40 (concern with word "enforce") (Russell)
15:21:32 [kaz_]
russell: would like one more week
15:21:34 [kaz_]
clarke: ok
15:21:43 [kaz_]
topic: Clarify explanations on DRM requirements, also consider more specific DECE requirements (Bob)
15:21:53 [Zakim]
15:22:16 [kaz_]
(Bob is disconnected...)
15:22:34 [kaz_]
clarke: we have issue-40 and issue-41
15:22:35 [Zakim]
15:22:40 [Zakim]
15:22:41 [kaz_]
... and would like to see the difference
15:22:42 [Zakim]
- +1.415.867.aaee
15:22:47 [kaz_]
zakim, ??P7 is Bob
15:22:47 [Zakim]
+Bob; got it
15:23:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.867.aagg
15:23:36 [kaz_]
zakim, aagg is Mark_Watson
15:23:37 [Zakim]
+Mark_Watson; got it
15:23:49 [kaz_]
bob: contacted DECE
15:24:10 [kaz_]
... we'll have discussion next week
15:24:38 [kaz_]
... Jim Talor (?)
15:24:44 [Clarke]
15:24:49 [kaz_]
... security specification
15:24:55 [Clarke]
Works for DECE
15:24:55 [kaz_]
s/Talor (?)/Taylor/
15:26:15 [kaz_]
russell: various ways for security
15:26:22 [kaz_]
... Amazon, Netflix
15:26:33 [kaz_]
... negotiation for separate systems
15:26:42 [kaz_]
... so implementation specific
15:26:52 [kaz_]
bob: that's one possible mechanism
15:27:00 [kaz_]
... for download
15:27:18 [kaz_]
... whatever content protection
15:27:33 [kaz_]
... another possibility is direct streaming
15:28:04 [kaz_]
... in that case DECE common encryption
15:28:29 [kaz_]
... MPEG DASH is one example
15:28:42 [kaz_]
clarke: can you define "last" ?
15:29:03 [Clarke]
or "LASP" ?
15:29:11 [davidmays]
yes it's LASP
15:29:16 [kaz_]
15:29:49 [kaz_]
zakim, who is speaking?
15:29:59 [Zakim]
kaz_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Juhani (29%)
15:30:10 [davidmays]
LASTP = Locker Access Streaming Provider
15:30:23 [Clarke]
15:30:24 [davidmays]
15:31:09 [kaz_]
juhani: (explains the mechanism; but his voice is breaking...)
15:31:42 [kaz_]
... various potential protection mechanisms
15:31:47 [kaz_]
clarke: ok
15:32:09 [kaz_]
bob: would restate our purpose is common mechanism
15:32:23 [kaz_]
... sharing common encryption
15:32:57 [kaz_]
clarke: bob will meet DECE and clarify their requirements
15:33:54 [kaz_]
bob: if there is a plan on browser-based technology by DECE, will let the TF know
15:34:22 [kaz_]
... no intention of specific DRM mechanism, but common encryption mechanism
15:34:45 [kaz_]
... try to put ideas on wiki
15:35:03 [kaz_]
... have specific examples
15:35:12 [kaz_]
... within next couple of days
15:35:28 [kaz_]
... will generate a wiki page first
15:36:00 [kaz_]
action: bob to generate a wiki page on examples of common encryption mechanism
15:36:00 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - bob
15:36:00 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. bbrummer, blund3)
15:36:15 [kaz_]
action: lund to generate a wiki page on examples of common encryption mechanism
15:36:16 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-76 - Generate a wiki page on examples of common encryption mechanism [on Bob Lund - due 2011-09-15].
15:37:33 [kaz_]
bob: something like CODECs, content providers can choose appropriate mechanism
15:37:47 [kaz_]
clarke: number of possible protocols
15:37:59 [kaz_]
... which one is supported, and priority, etc.
15:38:23 [kaz_]
topic: Continuing issue acceptance review (beginning with issue 42)
15:38:34 [kaz_]
15:38:34 [trackbot]
ISSUE-42 -- Content delivery to personal computers -- raised
15:38:34 [trackbot]
15:38:43 [Clarke]
15:39:23 [kaz_]
clarke: (explains the issue)
15:39:34 [Zakim]
15:39:44 [kaz_]
... Personal computers are a desirable target for service providers to deliver content.
15:39:57 [kaz_]
... can we accept this?
15:40:12 [kaz_]
dave: are we thinking of tablet, etc.?
15:40:25 [kaz_]
bob: depends on particular tablet
15:40:37 [kaz_]
... vendor's specific tablet
15:40:50 [kaz_]
... some of them are PC-like ones
15:40:54 [Juhani]
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15:41:15 [kaz_]
... but some of them are retail devices
15:41:28 [Zakim]
15:41:32 [kaz_]
dave: mobile devices like mobile phones
15:41:48 [kaz_]
bob: fine with rewording
15:42:05 [kaz_]
... what is the characteristics of "personal computers" ?
15:42:13 [kaz_]
... software-based solution
15:42:59 [kaz_]
clarke: personal computer and CE devices
15:43:10 [kaz_]
... you don't want to drop targets, do you
15:43:16 [kaz_]
... overlapped list
15:43:26 [kaz_]
dave: ok
15:43:33 [kaz_]
zakim, who is speaking?
15:43:44 [Zakim]
kaz_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P26 (45%), Duncan (33%)
15:43:53 [Zakim]
15:44:17 [kaz_]
juhani: what about requirements for issue-43?
15:44:17 [Zakim]
15:44:45 [kaz_]
clarke: 42 description is fine, but need rewording "personal computers"
15:45:05 [kaz_]
russell: W3C makes implementation-based distinction
15:45:18 [kaz_]
bob: no suggestion of W3C level
15:45:32 [kaz_]
... how you might implement content security on a personal computer
15:45:49 [kaz_]
... software environment is quite open
15:46:02 [kaz_]
... while no support with hardware level
15:46:39 [kaz_]
... platform distinction may drive different consideration
15:46:57 [Zakim]
15:46:59 [kaz_]
... keep handling different platforms separately
15:47:07 [Zakim]
15:47:15 [kaz_]
... other distinction is also possible
15:47:43 [kaz_]
... different economic consideration
15:48:17 [kaz_]
... there are distinctions we need discussion
15:48:38 [Zakim]
15:48:56 [Zakim]
15:49:35 [kaz_]
... what we want to understand is different category of devices have different compliance rules
15:50:18 [kaz_]
... compliance of robustness
15:50:51 [kaz_]
russell: we have to write recommendations which are fairly neutral
15:51:15 [kaz_]
clarke: some of the key difference may effect our requirements
15:51:32 [kaz_]
... "personal computing device" and "consumer device"
15:52:06 [kaz_]
juhani: mobile phones and smart phones belong to issue-43 (CE devices), don't they?
15:52:47 [kaz_]
bob: accessibility is also the key
15:53:24 [kaz_]
clarke: anybody oppose to accept issue-42 as a requirement?
15:53:37 [kaz_]
russell: need rewording
15:54:38 [kaz_]
... between hardware-oriented devices and the others
15:55:04 [kaz_]
... a bit confused what issue-42 want to say
15:55:26 [kaz_]
bob: clarification is issue-42 is identifying more open and accessible devices
15:55:45 [kaz_]
... while issue-43 is identifying more close devices
15:55:56 [kaz_]
... would like add clarification
15:56:03 [Clarke]
For reference, here is issue 43:
15:56:11 [kaz_]
15:56:11 [trackbot]
ISSUE-43 -- Content delivery to retail consumer electronics devices -- raised
15:56:11 [trackbot]
15:56:29 [kaz_]
russell: source code is available for webkit
15:58:33 [kaz_]
clarke: would suggest we mention the spectrum of devices
15:58:53 [kaz_]
... one end of the spectrum is pc and another end is ce
15:59:05 [kaz_]
15:59:15 [kaz_]
bob: makes sense
15:59:51 [kaz_]
clarke: russell, maybe you could take discussion with Bob offline, couldn't you?
16:00:03 [kaz_]
zakim, who is speaking?
16:00:14 [Zakim]
kaz_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob (5%), Dave_Mays (51%)
16:00:36 [kaz_]
dave: should mention characteristics as well
16:01:14 [Zakim]
16:01:35 [kaz_]
russell: f2f plan?
16:02:02 [Zakim]
16:02:03 [Zakim]
16:02:04 [Zakim]
16:02:06 [Zakim]
16:02:08 [Zakim]
16:02:10 [Zakim]
16:02:10 [kaz_]
clarke: f2f meeting on 21st-22nd right after the workshop on 19th-20th
16:02:12 [Zakim]
16:02:16 [Zakim]
16:02:17 [Clarke]
Thanks, Kaz
16:02:18 [Zakim]
16:02:21 [kaz_]
16:02:22 [Zakim]
16:02:24 [Clarke]
16:02:32 [Zakim]
16:02:51 [kaz_]
Clarke, Bob will try to put issue-42 and issue-43 together. right?
16:03:18 [kaz_]
there was much scratch, and I couldn't here him
16:07:06 [kaz_]
zakim, who is here?
16:07:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Clarke
16:07:07 [Zakim]
On IRC I see narm_gadiraju, igarashi, davidmays, aizu, duncanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz_, francois, trackbot
16:07:17 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, Clarke, in UW_WebTVIG()11:00AM
16:07:18 [Zakim]
UW_WebTVIG()11:00AM has ended
16:07:22 [Zakim]
Attendees were +44.789.470.aaaa, Kazuyuki, +, Jan, Clarke, Duncan, Russell, Bob, Igarashi, Aizu, Eric, +1.678.795.aacc, Juhani, Steven_Wright, +1.215.286.aadd,
16:07:24 [Zakim]
... Dave_Mays, +1.415.867.aaee, +1.503.712.aaff, Narm, +1.415.867.aagg, Mark_Watson
16:10:28 [kaz_]
Present: Duncan, Kazuyuki, Jan, Clarke, Russell, Bob, Igarashi, Aizu, Eric, Steven, Juhani, Dave, Narm, Mark_Watson
16:10:44 [kaz_]
rrsagent, make log public
16:10:50 [kaz_]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:10:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kaz_
16:14:17 [duncanr]
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18:34:07 [Zakim]
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18:34:25 [JAB]
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18:34:35 [JAB]
zakim, room for 4?
18:34:47 [Zakim]
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18:34:53 [JAB]
zakim, room for 4?
18:34:55 [Zakim]
ok, JAB; conference Team_(webtv)18:34Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 1934Z
18:35:42 [Zakim]
Team_(webtv)18:34Z has now started
18:35:49 [Zakim]
18:36:01 [JAB]
Zakim, Jeff is JAB
18:36:01 [Zakim]
+JAB; got it
18:39:52 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.483.aaaa
18:58:38 [Zakim]
18:59:00 [JAB]
zakim, aaaa is MarkV
18:59:00 [Zakim]
+MarkV; got it
18:59:12 [JAB]
zakim ??P1 is RalphB
18:59:28 [JAB]
zakim, ??P1 is RalphB
18:59:28 [Zakim]
+RalphB; got it
18:59:49 [JAB]
discussion on agenda and how to make it go from something good to something great
19:00:52 [JAB]
need to coordinate not only who speaks but what do they feature in their presentation
19:01:59 [JAB]
kaz - are you available for a call when I get done with this one?
19:07:35 [Alan]
19:11:58 [Zakim]
19:14:04 [Zakim]
19:14:05 [Zakim]
Team_(webtv)18:34Z has ended
19:14:07 [Zakim]
Attendees were JAB, +1.650.483.aaaa, MarkV, RalphB
21:04:15 [Zakim]
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21:22:51 [Alan]
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