IRC log of webtv on 2011-09-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:53:11 [RRSAgent]

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14:53:11 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-webtv-irc

14:53:14 [kaz_]

Meeting: Media Pipeline Task Force Teleconf

14:53:45 [JanL]

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14:55:47 [Zakim]

UW_WebTVIG()11:00AM has now started

14:55:48 [duncanr]

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14:55:54 [Zakim]

+??P30

14:55:54 [Clarke]

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14:56:46 [francois]

[Regrets for this call. I'm on a call for the WebRTC working group. I'll monitor IRC]

14:56:48 [Zakim]

+ +44.789.470.aaaa

14:58:00 [francois]

Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/Agenda_Telco_8th_September_2011

14:58:08 [francois]

Chair: Clarke

14:58:58 [igarashi]

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14:59:10 [Zakim]

+??P49

14:59:58 [kaz_]

zakim, call kazuyuki-617

14:59:58 [Zakim]

ok, kaz_; the call is being made

14:59:58 [aizu]

aizu has joined #webtv

14:59:59 [Zakim]

+Kazuyuki

15:00:19 [kaz_]

zakim, who is here?

15:00:19 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P30, +44.789.470.aaaa, ??P49, Kazuyuki

15:00:20 [Zakim]

On IRC I see aizu, igarashi, Clarke, duncanr, JanL, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz_, francois, trackbot

15:00:24 [Zakim]

+ +46.1.07.19.aabb

15:00:40 [kaz_]

zakim, aabb is Jan

15:00:42 [Zakim]

+Jan; got it

15:01:01 [kaz_]

zakim, aaaa is Dancun

15:01:06 [kaz_]

zakim, who is here?

15:01:18 [kaz_]

zakim, ??P30 is Clarke

15:01:20 [Zakim]

+Dancun; got it

15:01:30 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P30, Dancun, ??P49, Kazuyuki, Jan

15:01:44 [Zakim]

+Clarke; got it

15:01:49 [kaz_]

zakim, Dancun is Duncan

15:01:54 [Zakim]

On IRC I see aizu, igarashi, Clarke, duncanr, JanL, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz_, francois, trackbot

15:02:02 [Zakim]

+??P7

15:02:03 [kaz_]

zakim, who is here?

15:02:18 [Zakim]

+Duncan; got it

15:02:26 [Zakim]

+Joseph_Scheuhammer

15:02:34 [Bob]

Bob has joined #webtv

15:02:48 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Clarke, Duncan, ??P49, Kazuyuki, Jan, ??P7, Joseph_Scheuhammer

15:03:00 [Russell]

Russell has joined #webtv

15:03:18 [kaz_]

zakim, Joseph_Scheuhammer is Russell

15:03:26 [kaz_]

zakim, who is here?

15:03:33 [igarashi]

zakim ??p49 is igarashi

15:03:45 [kaz_]

zakim, ??P7 is Bob

15:03:56 [kaz_]

zakim, ??P49 is Igarashi

15:04:08 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Bob, aizu, igarashi, Clarke, duncanr, JanL, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz_, francois, trackbot

15:04:12 [Zakim]

+??P8

15:04:28 [kaz_]

zakim, ??P8 is Aizu

15:04:34 [Zakim]

+Russell; got it

15:04:42 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Clarke, Duncan, ??P49, Kazuyuki, Jan, ??P7, Russell, ??P8

15:04:50 [Zakim]

+Bob; got it

15:04:52 [Zakim]

+Igarashi; got it

15:05:08 [Zakim]

+??P29

15:05:10 [Zakim]

+Aizu; got it

15:05:20 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Russell, Bob, aizu, igarashi, Clarke, duncanr, JanL, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz_, francois, trackbot

15:05:34 [kaz_]

zakim, ??P29 is Eric

15:05:50 [Zakim]

+Eric; got it

15:05:51 [Clarke]

Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/Agenda_Telco_8th_September_2011

15:05:52 [Zakim]

-Eric

15:06:36 [Zakim]

+??P56

15:06:42 [Zakim]

+??P58

15:07:01 [Zakim]

+ +1.678.795.aacc

15:07:20 [kaz_]

zakim, ??P56 is Eric

15:07:20 [Zakim]

+Eric; got it

15:07:29 [kaz_]

zakim, ??P58 is Juhani

15:07:29 [Zakim]

+Juhani; got it

15:07:33 [Juhani]

Juhani has joined #webtv

15:07:51 [kaz_]

zakim, aacc is Steven_Wright

15:07:51 [Zakim]

+Steven_Wright; got it

15:08:57 [kaz_]

topic: Update on issues from last week

15:09:03 [kaz_]

clarke: bob, any update?

15:09:17 [kaz_]

topic: Merging of issue-18 and issue-39 (Bob and Jan)

15:09:44 [kaz_]

jan: we can continue the discussion offline on the reflector

15:10:12 [kaz_]

bob: my issue-39's point was types of metadata

15:10:19 [Zakim]

+ +1.215.286.aadd

15:10:20 [davidmays]

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15:10:21 [kaz_]

... while 18 was more generic

15:10:31 [kaz_]

... I'll post comments on the reflector

15:10:37 [kaz_]

jan: we have bug reports

15:10:38 [eric]

eric has joined #webtv

15:10:49 [kaz_]

... would like to talk about the bug

15:11:13 [kaz_]

kaz: which bug?

15:11:25 [kaz_]

jan: 389 is related to 18

15:11:33 [kaz_]

s/18/issue-18/

15:11:39 [kaz_]

... HTML5 bug

15:12:04 [kaz_]

zakim, aadd is Dave_Mays

15:12:04 [Zakim]

+Dave_Mays; got it

15:12:13 [kaz_]

clarke: good suggestion

15:12:30 [kaz_]

... requirements comes from these issues are good

15:12:34 [Zakim]

+ +1.415.867.aaee

15:13:07 [kaz_]

kaz: will they create a new issue based on the discussion?

15:13:18 [kaz_]

jan: the conclusion depends on the discussion

15:13:29 [kaz_]

bob: discussion first

15:14:13 [kaz_]

jan: can I reopen HTML5 bugs which has been already closed?

15:16:01 [kaz_]

kaz: you should be able to send a message to the public list

15:16:31 [kaz_]

clarke: one of the bugs is closed but another is still open

15:17:14 [Clarke]

The other 3 are still open

15:17:23 [kaz_]

s/another/the other 3/

15:17:28 [kaz_]

s/is/are/

15:17:52 [kaz_]

clarke: should we ask HTML WG to reopen 13333?

15:19:07 [igarashi]

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15:19:10 [kaz_]

action: jan to send a message to HTML WG public list and talk with the group about how to deal with the closed bugs, e.g., 13333

15:19:10 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-75 - Send a message to HTML WG public list and talk with the group about how to deal with the closed bugs, e.g., 13333 [on Jan Lindquist - due 2011-09-15].

15:19:42 [Zakim]

+ +1.503.712.aaff

15:19:57 [kaz_]

jan: just to clarify, how to refer closed bug

15:20:22 [kaz_]

zakim, aaff is Narm

15:20:22 [Zakim]

+Narm; got it

15:20:36 [narm_gadiraju]

narm_gadiraju has joined #webtv

15:21:03 [kaz_]

zakim, who is here?

15:21:03 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Clarke, Duncan, Igarashi, Kazuyuki, Jan, Bob, Russell, Aizu, Eric, Juhani, Steven_Wright, Dave_Mays, +1.415.867.aaee, Narm

15:21:06 [Zakim]

On IRC I see narm_gadiraju, igarashi, eric, davidmays, Juhani, Russell, Bob, aizu, Clarke, duncanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz_, francois, trackbot

15:21:26 [kaz_]

topic: Clarify wording on issue 40 (concern with word "enforce") (Russell)

15:21:32 [kaz_]

russell: would like one more week

15:21:34 [kaz_]

clarke: ok

15:21:43 [kaz_]

topic: Clarify explanations on DRM requirements, also consider more specific DECE requirements (Bob)

15:21:53 [Zakim]

-Bob

15:22:16 [kaz_]

(Bob is disconnected...)

15:22:34 [kaz_]

clarke: we have issue-40 and issue-41

15:22:35 [Zakim]

+??P7

15:22:40 [Zakim]

-Jan

15:22:41 [kaz_]

... and would like to see the difference

15:22:42 [Zakim]

- +1.415.867.aaee

15:22:47 [kaz_]

zakim, ??P7 is Bob

15:22:47 [Zakim]

+Bob; got it

15:23:03 [Zakim]

+ +1.415.867.aagg

15:23:36 [kaz_]

zakim, aagg is Mark_Watson

15:23:37 [Zakim]

+Mark_Watson; got it

15:23:49 [kaz_]

bob: contacted DECE

15:24:10 [kaz_]

... we'll have discussion next week

15:24:38 [kaz_]

... Jim Talor (?)

15:24:44 [Clarke]

Taylor

15:24:49 [kaz_]

... security specification

15:24:55 [Clarke]

Works for DECE

15:24:55 [kaz_]

s/Talor (?)/Taylor/

15:26:15 [kaz_]

russell: various ways for security

15:26:22 [kaz_]

... Amazon, Netflix

15:26:33 [kaz_]

... negotiation for separate systems

15:26:42 [kaz_]

... so implementation specific

15:26:52 [kaz_]

bob: that's one possible mechanism

15:27:00 [kaz_]

... for download

15:27:18 [kaz_]

... whatever content protection

15:27:33 [kaz_]

... another possibility is direct streaming

15:28:04 [kaz_]

... in that case DECE common encryption

15:28:29 [kaz_]

... MPEG DASH is one example

15:28:42 [kaz_]

clarke: can you define "last" ?

15:29:03 [Clarke]

or "LASP" ?

15:29:11 [davidmays]

yes it's LASP

15:29:16 [kaz_]

s/last/LASP/

15:29:49 [kaz_]

zakim, who is speaking?

15:29:59 [Zakim]

kaz_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Juhani (29%)

15:30:10 [davidmays]

LASTP = Locker Access Streaming Provider

15:30:23 [Clarke]

thanks

15:30:24 [davidmays]

s/LASTP/LASP

15:31:09 [kaz_]

juhani: (explains the mechanism; but his voice is breaking...)

15:31:42 [kaz_]

... various potential protection mechanisms

15:31:47 [kaz_]

clarke: ok

15:32:09 [kaz_]

bob: would restate our purpose is common mechanism

15:32:23 [kaz_]

... sharing common encryption

15:32:57 [kaz_]

clarke: bob will meet DECE and clarify their requirements

15:33:54 [kaz_]

bob: if there is a plan on browser-based technology by DECE, will let the TF know

15:34:22 [kaz_]

... no intention of specific DRM mechanism, but common encryption mechanism

15:34:45 [kaz_]

... try to put ideas on wiki

15:35:03 [kaz_]

... have specific examples

15:35:12 [kaz_]

... within next couple of days

15:35:28 [kaz_]

... will generate a wiki page first

15:36:00 [kaz_]

action: bob to generate a wiki page on examples of common encryption mechanism

15:36:00 [trackbot]

Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - bob

15:36:00 [trackbot]

Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. bbrummer, blund3)

15:36:15 [kaz_]

action: lund to generate a wiki page on examples of common encryption mechanism

15:36:16 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-76 - Generate a wiki page on examples of common encryption mechanism [on Bob Lund - due 2011-09-15].

15:37:33 [kaz_]

bob: something like CODECs, content providers can choose appropriate mechanism

15:37:47 [kaz_]

clarke: number of possible protocols

15:37:59 [kaz_]

... which one is supported, and priority, etc.

15:38:23 [kaz_]

topic: Continuing issue acceptance review (beginning with issue 42)

15:38:34 [kaz_]

issue-42?

15:38:34 [trackbot]

ISSUE-42 -- Content delivery to personal computers -- raised

15:38:34 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/42

15:38:43 [Clarke]

issue-42 http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/MPTF_Discussions/Delivery_to_pc

15:39:23 [kaz_]

clarke: (explains the issue)

15:39:34 [Zakim]

-Juhani

15:39:44 [kaz_]

... Personal computers are a desirable target for service providers to deliver content.

15:39:57 [kaz_]

... can we accept this?

15:40:12 [kaz_]

dave: are we thinking of tablet, etc.?

15:40:25 [kaz_]

bob: depends on particular tablet

15:40:37 [kaz_]

... vendor's specific tablet

15:40:50 [kaz_]

... some of them are PC-like ones

15:40:54 [Juhani]

Juhani has joined #webtv

15:41:15 [kaz_]

... but some of them are retail devices

15:41:28 [Zakim]

+??P26

15:41:32 [kaz_]

dave: mobile devices like mobile phones

15:41:48 [kaz_]

bob: fine with rewording

15:42:05 [kaz_]

... what is the characteristics of "personal computers" ?

15:42:13 [kaz_]

... software-based solution

15:42:59 [kaz_]

clarke: personal computer and CE devices

15:43:10 [kaz_]

... you don't want to drop targets, do you

15:43:16 [kaz_]

... overlapped list

15:43:26 [kaz_]

dave: ok

15:43:33 [kaz_]

zakim, who is speaking?

15:43:44 [Zakim]

kaz_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P26 (45%), Duncan (33%)

15:43:53 [Zakim]

-Mark_Watson

15:44:17 [kaz_]

juhani: what about requirements for issue-43?

15:44:17 [Zakim]

+Mark_Watson

15:44:45 [kaz_]

clarke: 42 description is fine, but need rewording "personal computers"

15:45:05 [kaz_]

russell: W3C makes implementation-based distinction

15:45:18 [kaz_]

bob: no suggestion of W3C level

15:45:32 [kaz_]

... how you might implement content security on a personal computer

15:45:49 [kaz_]

... software environment is quite open

15:46:02 [kaz_]

... while no support with hardware level

15:46:39 [kaz_]

... platform distinction may drive different consideration

15:46:57 [Zakim]

-Mark_Watson

15:46:59 [kaz_]

... keep handling different platforms separately

15:47:07 [Zakim]

+Mark_Watson

15:47:15 [kaz_]

... other distinction is also possible

15:47:43 [kaz_]

... different economic consideration

15:48:17 [kaz_]

... there are distinctions we need discussion

15:48:38 [Zakim]

-Mark_Watson

15:48:56 [Zakim]

+Mark_Watson

15:49:35 [kaz_]

... what we want to understand is different category of devices have different compliance rules

15:50:18 [kaz_]

... compliance of robustness

15:50:51 [kaz_]

russell: we have to write recommendations which are fairly neutral

15:51:15 [kaz_]

clarke: some of the key difference may effect our requirements

15:51:32 [kaz_]

... "personal computing device" and "consumer device"

15:52:06 [kaz_]

juhani: mobile phones and smart phones belong to issue-43 (CE devices), don't they?

15:52:47 [kaz_]

bob: accessibility is also the key

15:53:24 [kaz_]

clarke: anybody oppose to accept issue-42 as a requirement?

15:53:37 [kaz_]

russell: need rewording

15:54:38 [kaz_]

... between hardware-oriented devices and the others

15:55:04 [kaz_]

... a bit confused what issue-42 want to say

15:55:26 [kaz_]

bob: clarification is issue-42 is identifying more open and accessible devices

15:55:45 [kaz_]

... while issue-43 is identifying more close devices

15:55:56 [kaz_]

... would like add clarification

15:56:03 [Clarke]

For reference, here is issue 43: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/MPTF/MPTF_Discussions/Delivery_to_ce

15:56:11 [kaz_]

issue-43?

15:56:11 [trackbot]

ISSUE-43 -- Content delivery to retail consumer electronics devices -- raised

15:56:11 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/43

15:56:29 [kaz_]

russell: source code is available for webkit

15:58:33 [kaz_]

clarke: would suggest we mention the spectrum of devices

15:58:53 [kaz_]

... one end of the spectrum is pc and another end is ce

15:59:05 [kaz_]

+1

15:59:15 [kaz_]

bob: makes sense

15:59:51 [kaz_]

clarke: russell, maybe you could take discussion with Bob offline, couldn't you?

16:00:03 [kaz_]

zakim, who is speaking?

16:00:14 [Zakim]

kaz_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bob (5%), Dave_Mays (51%)

16:00:36 [kaz_]

dave: should mention characteristics as well

16:01:14 [Zakim]

-Bob

16:01:35 [kaz_]

russell: f2f plan?

16:02:02 [Zakim]

-Mark_Watson

16:02:03 [Zakim]

-Eric

16:02:04 [Zakim]

-Igarashi

16:02:06 [Zakim]

-Steven_Wright

16:02:08 [Zakim]

-Dave_Mays

16:02:10 [Zakim]

-Aizu

16:02:10 [kaz_]

clarke: f2f meeting on 21st-22nd right after the workshop on 19th-20th

16:02:12 [Zakim]

-Duncan

16:02:16 [Zakim]

-Russell

16:02:17 [Clarke]

Thanks, Kaz

16:02:18 [Zakim]

-??P26

16:02:21 [kaz_]

np

16:02:22 [Zakim]

-Narm

16:02:24 [Clarke]

-Clarke

16:02:32 [Zakim]

-Kazuyuki

16:02:51 [kaz_]

Clarke, Bob will try to put issue-42 and issue-43 together. right?

16:03:18 [kaz_]

there was much scratch, and I couldn't here him

16:07:06 [kaz_]

zakim, who is here?

16:07:06 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Clarke

16:07:07 [Zakim]

On IRC I see narm_gadiraju, igarashi, davidmays, aizu, duncanr, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz_, francois, trackbot

16:07:17 [Zakim]

disconnecting the lone participant, Clarke, in UW_WebTVIG()11:00AM

16:07:18 [Zakim]

UW_WebTVIG()11:00AM has ended

16:07:22 [Zakim]

Attendees were +44.789.470.aaaa, Kazuyuki, +46.1.07.19.aabb, Jan, Clarke, Duncan, Russell, Bob, Igarashi, Aizu, Eric, +1.678.795.aacc, Juhani, Steven_Wright, +1.215.286.aadd,

16:07:24 [Zakim]

... Dave_Mays, +1.415.867.aaee, +1.503.712.aaff, Narm, +1.415.867.aagg, Mark_Watson

16:10:28 [kaz_]

Present: Duncan, Kazuyuki, Jan, Clarke, Russell, Bob, Igarashi, Aizu, Eric, Steven, Juhani, Dave, Narm, Mark_Watson

16:10:44 [kaz_]

rrsagent, make log public

16:10:50 [kaz_]

rrsagent, draft minutes

16:10:50 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/08-webtv-minutes.html kaz_

16:14:17 [duncanr]

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18:34:07 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #webtv

18:34:25 [JAB]

JAB has joined #webtv

18:34:35 [JAB]

zakim, room for 4?

18:34:47 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #webtv

18:34:53 [JAB]

zakim, room for 4?

18:34:55 [Zakim]

ok, JAB; conference Team_(webtv)18:34Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 1934Z

18:35:42 [Zakim]

Team_(webtv)18:34Z has now started

18:35:49 [Zakim]

+Jeff

18:36:01 [JAB]

Zakim, Jeff is JAB

18:36:01 [Zakim]

+JAB; got it

18:39:52 [Zakim]

+ +1.650.483.aaaa

18:58:38 [Zakim]

+??P1

18:59:00 [JAB]

zakim, aaaa is MarkV

18:59:00 [Zakim]

+MarkV; got it

18:59:12 [JAB]

zakim ??P1 is RalphB

18:59:28 [JAB]

zakim, ??P1 is RalphB

18:59:28 [Zakim]

+RalphB; got it

18:59:49 [JAB]

discussion on agenda and how to make it go from something good to something great

19:00:52 [JAB]

need to coordinate not only who speaks but what do they feature in their presentation

19:01:59 [JAB]

kaz - are you available for a call when I get done with this one?

19:07:35 [Alan]

kaz?

19:11:58 [Zakim]

-RalphB

19:14:04 [Zakim]

-JAB

19:14:05 [Zakim]

Team_(webtv)18:34Z has ended

19:14:07 [Zakim]

Attendees were JAB, +1.650.483.aaaa, MarkV, RalphB

21:04:15 [Zakim]

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21:22:51 [Alan]

Alan has joined #webtv