13:55:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webtv
13:55:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/30-webtv-irc
13:55:57 <kaz> Meeting: Home Networking Task Force Teleconference
13:56:07 <kaz> Chair: Giuseppe
13:57:25 <Zakim> +??P29
13:57:44 <giuseppe> zakim, ??P29 is me
13:57:44 <Zakim> +giuseppe; got it
13:59:14 <Zakim> +francois
13:59:23 <Zakim> +??P31
13:59:29 <francois> zakim, mute me
13:59:30 <Zakim> francois should now be muted
13:59:34 <kaz> zakim, ??P31 is MattH
13:59:34 <Zakim> +MattH; got it
14:00:19 <Zakim> +??P35
14:00:30 <igarashi> igarashi has joined #webtv
14:00:35 <kaz> zakim, ??P35 is Juhani
14:00:35 <Zakim> +Juhani; got it
14:01:54 <Zakim> +??P42
14:02:00 <Zakim> +??P44
14:02:13 <Zakim> +??P48
14:02:36 <francois> zakim, ??P48 is JeanClaude_Dufourd
14:02:37 <Zakim> +JeanClaude_Dufourd; got it
14:02:43 <Zakim> + +1.303.503.aaaa
14:02:59 <Zakim> +??P51
14:03:10 <panze> Oops, sorry, thats me
14:03:34 <kaz> zakim, mute panze
14:03:39 <Zakim> Panze should now be muted
14:03:41 <kaz> zakim, unmute panze
14:03:45 <Zakim> Panze should no longer be muted
14:03:45 <francois> ack me
14:03:47 <kaz> zakim, who is noisy?
14:04:03 <Zakim> + +1.703.234.aabb
14:04:05 <Zakim> kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: giuseppe (25%), Clarke (15%)
14:04:12 <kaz> zakim, aabb is Jerry
14:04:13 <francois> zakim, mute me
14:04:31 <Zakim> +Jerry; got it
14:04:31 <kaz> zakim, mute me
14:04:31 <giuseppe> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2011Aug/0148.html
14:04:33 <Zakim> francois should now be muted
14:04:50 <Zakim> Kazuyuki should now be muted
14:05:10 <Zakim> + +1.503.712.aacc
14:05:28 <kaz> kaz has left #webtv
14:05:54 <kaz> kaz has joined #webtv
14:05:56 <francois> zakim, aacc is Narm
14:05:58 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
14:06:04 <francois> Scribe: francois
14:06:07 <francois> Topic: Security section
14:06:19 <narm_gadiraju> narm_gadiraju has joined #webtv
14:06:22 <Zakim> +Narm; got it
14:06:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kazuyuki (muted), giuseppe, francois (muted), MattH, Juhani, Clarke, Igarashi, JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bob, Panze, Jerry, Narm
14:06:32 <francois> Giuseppe: Proposal from me highlighting some of the security problems the use cases can raise.
14:06:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see narm_gadiraju, kaz, igarashi, RRSAgent, MattH, Zakim, giuseppe, panze, francois, trackbot
14:06:53 <francois> ... Got some comments. I tried to clarify the text.
14:07:00 <kaz> Present: Kazuyuki, giuseppe, francois, MattH, Juhani, Clarke, Igarashi, JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bob, Panze, Jerry, Narm
14:07:04 <francois> ... If no further comments, I'll merge it into requirements doc.
14:07:14 <francois> [none heard]
14:07:21 <francois> Giuseppe: ok, will do then
14:07:35 <francois> Topic: Requirement on Application Communication
14:07:50 <francois> Giuseppe: following mailing-list discussion, split requirements into 2.
14:08:00 <francois> ... If no other comment, we can move on.
14:08:05 <francois> Matt: Happy with the result.
14:08:11 <francois> Giuseppe: OK, good.
14:08:17 <francois> Topic: Content Protection
14:08:47 <francois> Giuseppe: discussion last time on whether we should drop the requirements or update the text. Bob and Russell wanted to propose text but didn't see text.
14:08:52 <kaz_> kaz_ has joined #webtv
14:09:01 <francois> Bob: I haven't had time to send text.
14:09:42 <francois> Giuseppe: We can probably review that during the IG F2F. We can leave the requirements in and review it during the F2F then.
14:09:46 <francois> Bob: fine.
14:10:01 <francois> Topic: Recommendations and categorization of requirements
14:10:21 <francois> Giuseppe: I tried to summarize feedback I got on the list.
14:10:31 <francois> Matt: Pretty happy with what you've done there.
14:10:32 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer
14:10:51 <kaz> zakim, Joseph is Russell
14:10:51 <Zakim> +Russell; got it
14:10:51 <francois> zakim, Joseph_Scheuhammer is really Russell
14:10:52 <Zakim> sorry, francois, I do not recognize a party named 'Joseph_Scheuhammer'
14:11:19 <francois> Giuseppe: I wrote a section called "Next Steps", I invite people to review that section.
14:11:20 <kaz> Present+ Russell
14:12:05 <francois> ... DAP group already has device discovery in its charter so next step is to propose requirements there and create another WG if and only if some of them are not taken up by DAP.
14:12:21 <francois> ... Then I categorized requirements into higher and lower priorities.
14:12:33 <francois> ... based on what we discussed last week.
14:12:34 <Zakim> + +1.678.795.aadd
14:12:56 <francois> Igarashi: How do you handle divergences of opinions on priorities?
14:13:28 <francois> Giuseppe: What is there is supposed to be the consensus of the discussions we already had. I encourage you to review the text and raise concerns.
14:13:45 <francois> ... If there are objections, we can record them in the requirements doc.
14:14:07 <francois> Igarashi: OK, I think Application communication should be higher priority.
14:14:23 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
14:14:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kazuyuki (muted), giuseppe, francois (muted), MattH, Juhani, Clarke, Igarashi, JeanClaude_Dufourd, Bob, Panze, Jerry, Narm, Russell, +1.678.795.aadd
14:14:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see kaz_, narm_gadiraju, kaz, igarashi, RRSAgent, MattH, Zakim, giuseppe, panze, francois, trackbot
14:14:28 <francois> Giuseppe: One way is to discuss this and see if we can reach agreement.
14:14:31 <kaz> zakim, unmute me
14:14:32 <Zakim> Kazuyuki should no longer be muted
14:14:37 <francois> ... Otherwise, we'll just record disagreement.
14:15:01 <kaz> zakim, aadd is Steven
14:15:01 <Zakim> +Steven; got it
14:15:42 <Zakim> -Russell
14:16:00 <kaz> Present+ Steven_Wright
14:16:07 <Zakim> +Russell
14:16:20 <kaz> q?
14:16:27 <francois> Igarashi: [comment I missed on Application communication and other requirements priorities]
14:16:40 <francois> Bob: Could you summarize the issue?
14:16:54 <Zakim> + +1.650.483.aaee
14:17:20 <francois> Giuseppe: issue is should we move "Application communication" to high priority?
14:17:22 <mav> mav has joined #webtv
14:17:29 <kaz> zakim, aaee is Mark_Vickers
14:17:29 <Zakim> +Mark_Vickers; got it
14:17:49 <mav> Yes
14:17:59 <mav> Sorry late
14:18:44 <francois> [scribe missed gist of discussion here, Igarashi-san, feel free to record your points down on IRC!]
14:18:56 <francois> Giuseppe: I can move this in high priority list if no one objects.
14:19:36 <francois> Russell: In terms of UPnP, we don't recognize applications per se, only devices, that would be difficult for us to accomodate.
14:20:04 <Zakim> -Bob
14:20:40 <francois> Matt: the requirement could be fulfilled by different implementations. I would not translate it into meaning UPnP has to provide this set of functionalities.
14:20:47 <Zakim> +Bob
14:20:57 <Zakim> -Russell
14:20:58 <francois> Igashari: also, it's pretty generic, not bound to a particular protocol.
14:21:12 <Zakim> +Russell
14:21:31 <francois> Giuseppe: I don't think it's a big deal moving it to high priority.
14:22:28 <kaz> zakim, who is noisy?
14:22:39 <Zakim> kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: giuseppe (58%), Igarashi (84%)
14:23:24 <francois> Igashari: important point. Generic that can be extended [echo heard, scribe missed most of it again]
14:23:38 <kaz> s/Igashari/Igarashi/
14:24:21 <kaz> +1
14:24:35 <francois> Giuseppe: Let's resolve it over email. Please send comments on current text and we'll resolve this during F2F. Try to be specific and propose text.
14:25:02 <francois> Topic: Remote UI Overview (ISSUE-48)
14:25:07 <francois> ISSUE-48?
14:25:07 <trackbot> ISSUE-48 -- CEA-2014 Remote UI Overview -- raised
14:25:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/48
14:25:28 <francois> Giuseppe: I saw some text from JC. I can go ahead and integrate that text.
14:25:37 <francois> ... Please send comments if needed.
14:25:52 <francois> ... Any other comments on requirements document?
14:25:53 <mav_> mav_ has joined #webtv
14:26:11 <francois> [none heard]
14:26:22 <francois> Topic: Remaining open issues
14:26:32 <Zakim> -Russell
14:26:43 <kaz> -> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/products/2 HNTF issues
14:26:46 <jcdufourd> jcdufourd has joined #webtv
14:27:09 <kaz> issue-30?
14:27:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Device Controller -- open
14:27:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/30
14:27:23 <Zakim> +Russell
14:27:49 <francois> Giuseppe: not sure what we should do with implementation alternatives.
14:28:04 <francois> Clarke: fine if you include an informative link to reference the proposals.
14:28:22 <francois> Giuseppe: OK, thanks, sounds good, we can close it then.
14:28:44 <francois> [comment scribe missed on adding reference link]
14:28:58 <francois> Giuseppe: Russell, about closing ISSUE-30?
14:29:17 <francois> Russell: Yes, I'm fine with that.
14:29:22 <francois> Close ISSUE-30
14:29:22 <trackbot> ISSUE-30 Home Network Enabled User-Agent - Network Device Controller closed
14:29:34 <francois> Giuseppe: ok, good.
14:29:37 <francois> Topic: Next Steps.
14:29:51 <francois> Giuseppe: Next step is to circulate the requirements doc within the whole IG.
14:30:03 <francois> ... get feedback, address comments, and close the doc during the IG F2F.
14:30:21 <Zakim> +??P2
14:30:27 <Zakim> -Bob
14:30:27 <francois> ... In parallel to this, the co-chairs are trying to write an IG report describing IG history and progress.
14:30:34 <kaz> q+ to ask about possible (additional?) agenda topic idea
14:30:43 <francois> ... The requirements doc would be linked from the IG report.
14:30:58 <francois> Russell: [question about IG report]
14:31:47 <francois> Giuseppe: The IG is a public group, so everyone will be able to send comments on the doc. During the F2F, only IG participants are allowed to attend/
14:31:55 <francois> s|/||
14:32:00 <kaz> q?
14:32:14 <Zakim> -Russell
14:32:17 <francois> JeanClaude: What is the status of the implementation alternative doc?
14:32:23 <Zakim> +Russell
14:32:55 <francois> Giuseppe: we just said we should probably drop it. It's reflected by the different solutions proposed by Opera, CableLabs. We should close it as it was meant to trigger discussions (and it did).
14:33:16 <kaz> q?
14:33:23 <francois> ??1: How many items remain to be addressed? You mentioned a couple.
14:33:31 <kaz> s/??1/mav/
14:34:05 <francois> Giuseppe: We're not looking into adding more requirements. There is nothing pending as far as I can see. I'm expecting comments to clarify what the text says.
14:34:55 <francois> ... The agenda for the F2F is to review this document and approve it, to discuss next steps, e.g. involvement within DAP, discuss possible joint meeting at TPAC, etc.
14:35:25 <jcdufourd> jcdufourd has joined #webtv
14:35:54 <francois> ... Then, during the F2F, we'll have another discussion at the IG level, to see if we need to continue discussions in this TF, in another one on another TF, things that worked out well, things that should be improved.
14:36:05 <kaz> ack k
14:36:05 <Zakim> kaz, you wanted to ask about possible (additional?) agenda topic idea
14:36:07 <francois> ... Be prepared to share pro/cons about TF during the F2F!
14:36:55 <francois> Kaz: It might make sense to ask TF participants about how to form the agenda of the IG.
14:37:09 <kaz> s/IG/IG f2f meeting/
14:37:28 <francois> StevenWright: question about definition about home network in requirements doc. Restricted to IPv4? Open to IPv6?
14:37:44 <francois> Bob: CableLabs is planning to support IPv6.
14:37:57 <francois> StevenWright: perhaps worth being explicit.
14:38:20 <kaz> zakim, who is speaking?
14:38:30 <Zakim> kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P2 (4%), giuseppe (98%), Narm (14%)
14:38:38 <francois> Narm: does home network cover only local device, or "extended" home networks with remote devices?
14:38:38 <narm_gadiraju> narm gadiraju spok
14:39:04 <MattH> +q
14:39:21 <francois> Giuseppe: home/home communications is important but we haven't investigated it thoroughly. Idea would be to mention it as something that requires more work.
14:39:41 <francois> Giuseppe: Could someone provide text for home network clarifications?
14:39:48 <MattH> -q
14:39:49 <francois> ??2: Happy to.
14:40:13 <francois> Giuseppe: back to Kaz point. F2F points?
14:40:37 <francois> Igarashi: Comments on requirements could be discussed at the F2F before it is approved.
14:41:12 <francois> Giuseppe: yes, this is one point of the agenda.
14:41:37 <francois> ... I drafted an initial agenda
14:41:46 <francois> -> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/First_F2F_Schedule Draft F2F schedule
14:42:43 <Jerry> Jerry has joined #webtv
14:42:44 <francois> Giuseppe: For HNTF, next steps on standardization works, next steps as a TF (close? continue?) and perhaps presentations of preliminary work as we experienced in e.g. CableLabs and Opera
14:42:54 <francois> ... [going through the remaining agenda]
14:43:10 <francois> ... Any proposal to add to our slot?
14:43:14 <Zakim> -Russell
14:43:39 <Zakim> +Russell
14:44:11 <francois> ... Agenda is on the wiki, please look at it and propose additions.
14:44:15 <francois> ... Any other question?
14:44:27 <francois> ack me
14:44:51 <francois> s/??2/Clarke/
14:44:55 <francois> zakim, mute me
14:44:55 <Zakim> francois should now be muted
14:44:55 <kaz> zakim, ??P2 is Clarke
14:44:56 <Zakim> +Clarke; got it
14:45:30 <francois> Giuseppe: I have one comment on Media Identification, put as other requirement.
14:45:44 <francois> ... Not sure if it's related to what DAP is chartered to do.
14:46:25 <francois> Matt: depends on the level of complexity you put in media identification. At the beginning, it was a means to get access to an identifier that applications can use.
14:46:49 <francois> ... Support for enabling metadata as a way to store the identifier.
14:47:17 <francois> Giuseppe: yes, social TV was another aspect, as you need an identifier to be able to share it.
14:47:35 <francois> ... Not limited to home network scenarios.
14:47:54 <francois> Matt: Question for the IG as a whole.
14:48:25 <francois> Bob: The media metadata work that's going on, does that cover what you're talking about?
14:48:26 <francois> ack me
14:48:46 <francois> Francois: Media Annotations WG?
14:48:50 <francois> Bob: yes.
14:48:56 <Zakim> +Russell.a
14:48:59 <Zakim> -Russell
14:49:15 <francois> Clarke: But not talking about media identification per se.
14:49:17 <francois> zakim, mute me
14:49:17 <Zakim> francois should now be muted
14:49:43 <francois> Giuseppe: we should look in this WG and see if its scope overlaps with this requirement.
14:50:06 <francois> Igashari: Proposal for agenda F2F.
14:50:44 <francois> s/Igashari/Igarashi/
14:51:01 <francois> ... Need to include feedback from workshop on home networks.
14:51:11 <francois> Giuseppe: yes, included in global agenda.
14:51:27 <kaz> [it's included in: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/First_F2F_Schedule#Main_IG_.28IG_report_review.29]
14:51:51 <Zakim> -Clarke.a
14:51:52 <francois> Giuseppe: no more calls by F2F, we'll continue discussions on the list.
14:51:56 <Zakim> -Mark_Vickers
14:51:58 <Zakim> -Clarke
14:51:58 <francois> ... Thanks everybody! Bye!
14:51:59 <Zakim> -Jerry
14:51:59 <Zakim> -JeanClaude_Dufourd
14:52:02 <Zakim> -Juhani
14:52:02 <francois> [call adjourned]
14:52:03 <Zakim> -Igarashi
14:52:05 <Zakim> -Russell.a
14:52:07 <Zakim> -Steven
14:52:09 <Zakim> -MattH
14:52:10 <Zakim> -Kazuyuki
14:52:13 <Zakim> -francois
14:52:19 <Zakim> -Panze
14:52:34 <Zakim> -Narm
14:54:44 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft mintues', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:55:17 <kaz> zakim, drop giuseppe
14:55:17 <Zakim> giuseppe is being disconnected
14:55:19 <Zakim> UW_WebTVIG(Home Net)10:00AM has ended
14:55:21 <Zakim> Attendees were Kazuyuki, giuseppe, francois, MattH, Juhani, Clarke, Igarashi, JeanClaude_Dufourd, +1.303.503.aaaa, Bob, Panze, +1.703.234.aabb, Jerry, +1.503.712.aacc, Narm,
14:55:24 <Zakim> ... Joseph_Scheuhammer, Russell, +1.678.795.aadd, Steven, +1.650.483.aaee, Mark_Vickers
14:57:23 <MattH> MattH has left #webtv
15:08:51 <giuseppe> oh sorry didn't realize
15:09:02 <giuseppe> I use sip
15:09:15 <giuseppe> ah kaz
15:09:19 <giuseppe> are you still around?
15:10:36 <giuseppe> what time is the call tomorrow?
15:15:05 <francois> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:15:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/30-webtv-minutes.html francois
15:15:31 <francois> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:15:50 <francois> RRSAgent, bye
15:15:50 <RRSAgent> I see no action items