13:54:18 RRSAgent has joined #lld 13:54:18 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-irc 13:54:26 zakim, this will be LLD 13:54:26 ok, emma; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes 13:54:35 rrsagent, please bookmark 13:54:35 I'm logging. I don't understand 'please bookmark', emma. Try /msg RRSAgent help 13:54:48 rrsagent, please make record public 13:54:57 rrsagent, please draft minutes 13:54:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-minutes.html emma 13:55:57 Meeting: LLD XG 13:56:03 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Aug/0121.html 13:56:12 Chair: Antoine 13:56:38 antoine has joined #lld 13:56:43 Previous: 2011-08-18 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html 13:56:54 marcia has joined #lld 13:57:03 rrsagent, please draft minutes 13:57:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-minutes.html emma 13:57:06 INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started 13:57:11 rsinger has joined #lld 13:57:13 +??P7 13:57:35 +??P10 13:57:51 +rsinger 13:57:52 zakim, ??P7 is tbaker 13:57:52 +tbaker; got it 13:57:54 zakim, ??P10 is me 13:57:54 +antoine; got it 13:58:01 rrsagent, please draft minutes 13:58:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-minutes.html antoine 13:58:20 +emma_ 13:58:33 zakim, emma_ is really emma 13:58:33 +emma; got it 13:58:51 +michaelp 13:58:57 zakim, michaelp is me 13:58:57 +jeff_; got it 13:59:14 +marcia 13:59:30 zakim, mute me 13:59:30 jeff_ should now be muted 13:59:48 zakim, mute me 13:59:48 marcia should now be muted 13:59:51 +??P17 14:00:07 zakim, ??P17 is kcoyle 14:00:07 +kcoyle; got it 14:00:33 GordonD has joined #lld 14:00:57 pmurray has joined #lld 14:01:37 dvilasuero has joined #lld 14:01:38 +pmurray 14:01:54 zakim, who is here? 14:01:54 On the phone I see tbaker, antoine, rsinger, emma, jeff_ (muted), marcia (muted), kcoyle, pmurray (muted) 14:02:46 +??P38 14:03:03 zakim, ??P38 is GordonD 14:03:03 +GordonD; got it 14:03:13 +??P39 14:03:26 zakim, ??P39 is dvilasuero 14:03:26 +dvilasuero; got it 14:03:32 zakim, mute me 14:03:33 dvilasuero should now be muted 14:03:40 thanks antoine 14:04:04 I guess it's my turn to scribe 14:04:34 I'm ok, i think 14:04:43 Scribe: Gordon 14:04:52 Scribenick: GordonD 14:05:38 Topic: ADMIN 14:06:09 Resolved: To accept minutes of previous meeting 14:06:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2011Aug/0030.html 14:06:31 ACTION: Tom to post an announcement to the list that comment period has ended [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html#action03] 14:06:33 Done 14:06:44 ACTION: Tom to post an announcement to the list that comment period has ended [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html#action03] 14:06:46 --DONE 14:08:57 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/AcknowledgementsDatasetDeliverable 14:09:34 michaelp has joined #lld 14:09:51 Antoine: We added acknowledgements to reviewers and CKAN curators 14:09:54 +jeff_.a 14:10:38 Tom: William was a CKAN curator, too 14:11:36 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/AcknowledgementsUseCaseDeliverable 14:13:35 q+ to propose 14:13:46 Antoine: List of contributors to use-case deliverable (deliverable B) is quite long. 14:13:49 zakim, ack tbaker 14:13:49 tbaker, you wanted to propose 14:13:51 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:13:57 q+ 14:14:09 Tom: Propose to put the list into acknowledgements. 14:14:23 zakim, ack kcoyle 14:14:23 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:14:55 Karen: What is key are the names of those who contributed the use cases. 14:15:25 q+ to propose that the acknowledgements have one sentence listing cluster editors and one listing use-case contributors. 14:16:11 q- 14:16:13 Karen: No need to have specific members of the group mentioned, as everyone did some work. 14:16:21 +1 for listing cluster editors 14:16:22 q+ 14:16:32 zakim, ack tbaker 14:16:32 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:17:06 +1 14:17:07 +1 14:17:10 +1 14:17:11 +1 14:17:17 +1 14:17:17 +1 14:17:17 Antoine: So we have an acknowledgement section, and then the individual contributions 14:18:13 RESOLVED: To have Daniel as editor, and an acknowledgements section that lists the use case editors and individual contributors. 14:18:30 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/AcknowledgementsMainDeliverable 14:19:39 q+ 14:19:46 Antoine: For deliverable A (main deliverable), do we acknowledge just the editors, or all members of the group? 14:19:53 zakim, ack emme 14:19:53 I see emma on the speaker queue 14:19:57 zakim, ack emma 14:19:57 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:20:21 Emma: Does this include group members who have carried out reviews? 14:20:50 Antoine: Should include all significant contributions. 14:21:59 q+ to propose that we list contributors in Acknowledgements 14:22:09 q+ 14:22:09 zakim, ack tbaker 14:22:10 tbaker, you wanted to propose that we list contributors in Acknowledgements 14:22:11 I see kcoyle on the speaker queue 14:22:41 zakim, ack kcoyle 14:22:41 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:23:07 +1 for at end and in paragraph form 14:23:13 Karen: Acknowledgments shouldn't break up text; should go in a separate section. 14:23:16 +1 here too 14:23:29 otherwise it's like a musical, where the audience claps after every number 14:23:38 +1 to post draft acknowledgements to list before finalizing 14:23:42 +1 for a paragraph at the end, like the Provenance XG final report did: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/XGR-prov-20101214/ 14:23:44 Karen: Need to ensure we acknowledge everyone who warrants it. 14:24:49 q+ 14:24:52 Don't we have to stick with W3C format, where editors are on top? 14:25:01 ack tbaker 14:26:57 Tom: Preference is to follow Provenance XG style: list editors, then a separate acknowledgments section somewhere (not necessarily at end), whatever W3C indicates. 14:27:00 q+ 14:27:07 zakim, ack antoine 14:27:07 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:28:41 +1 14:28:45 Antoine: We are probably ok with either editors listed at top of report, or included with other group members in acknowledgments. 14:28:54 I don't feel strongly one way or the other 14:28:54 +1 14:29:03 yeah, i can't say i care that much 14:29:12 I dont mind either ;-) 14:29:25 q+ 14:29:30 I don't have an opinion 14:29:31 zakim, ack tbaker 14:29:31 unmuting tbaker 14:29:32 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:29:52 q+ to suggest we look at this when the report is in definitive form 14:30:17 zakim, ack emma 14:30:18 emma, you wanted to suggest we look at this when the report is in definitive form 14:30:20 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:30:22 Tom: Usual for editors to be given; we should list all those actively involved. 14:31:23 +1 14:31:24 +1 14:31:26 Antoine: We should ask for advice from W3C colleagues; default is long list of editors. 14:31:28 +1 14:31:29 +1 14:31:32 +1 14:31:32 +1 14:31:39 +1 14:31:58 jneubert has joined #lld 14:32:12 ACTION: Chair to solicit feedback from W3C contacts regarding the editor list issue. 14:32:33 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Aug/0041.html 14:32:55 q+ 14:33:03 zakim, ack emma 14:33:03 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:33:20 q+ to propose that we give copy editors latitude to make improvements 14:33:33 +1 to keep the summary as one block 14:33:34 +jneubert 14:33:37 +1 14:33:46 +1 14:33:50 Emma: Exec summary is short enough to be in just one part, with no internal divisions. 14:33:53 zakim, ack tbaker 14:33:53 tbaker, you wanted to propose that we give copy editors latitude to make improvements 14:33:56 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:33:59 +1 14:34:40 no objection 14:35:03 and we need to fix capitalization, etc. 14:35:38 +1 14:35:40 +1 to give copy editors latitude to smooth things 14:35:41 +1 14:35:51 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/ExecutiveSummary 14:36:05 ACTION: Karen, Tom, Michael, and Gordon to write the executive summary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action05] 14:36:10 --Done 14:36:26 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Aug/0087.html 14:36:31 ACTION: Karen and Emma to write a sentence in Scope adding cultural and memory institutions together in some way [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/07-lld-minutes.html#action03] 14:36:35 --Done 14:36:47 +1 looks good 14:37:10 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Aug/0088.html 14:37:17 ACTION: Ross to propose sentence in Benefits about sum being more than the parts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html#action07] 14:37:21 --Done 14:37:25 +1 ross, nice result! 14:37:26 and very good, thanks ross! 14:37:30 Ross++ 14:37:38 no, thanks karen and tom 14:37:42 +1 14:37:44 very good improvements 14:37:47 +1 14:38:39 zakim, unmute me 14:38:39 dvilasuero should no longer be muted 14:39:27 Daniel: Most of Emma's comments on use cases have been actioned. 14:39:45 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseReport#Bibliographic_data 14:40:06 rrsagent, please draft minutes 14:40:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-minutes.html antoine 14:40:24 the table looks good ! 14:41:56 This is good. I like the higher-level overview. 14:42:19 Very good table and overview 14:42:44 Daniel: Deliverable will close tomorrow, so last chance for further comments. 14:42:45 looks good 14:43:12 +1 for tables and finishing the deliverable tomorrow 14:43:34 Daniel: Table approach will be extended to all clusters. 14:43:46 it may be different when html'd 14:43:54 we could do it as two columns 14:44:00 two sets of columns 14:44:17 Antoine: Table may be too long. 14:44:57 q+ 14:45:04 ack tbaker 14:45:07 zakim, ack tbaker 14:45:07 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:45:08 This structure looks fine to me. I think it is a clear overview. 14:45:40 Tom: Clarify: there is one table per cluster, and the example is the longest. 14:46:16 q+ to point out that References need to be deleted and replaced 14:46:22 Antoine: Just realized HTML version will benefit from numbering of sections. 14:46:23 +1 to numbering 14:46:49 +1 to numbering 14:46:54 Yeah, we can adjust the numbering in the static HTML version. 14:47:05 zakim, ack tbaker 14:47:05 tbaker, you wanted to point out that References need to be deleted and replaced 14:47:07 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:47:58 Tom: Wiki reference links need to be replaced with URLs. 14:48:20 ACTION: Emma to review Use Cases and make comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/07-lld-minutes.html#action07] 14:48:23 --done 14:48:47 thanks for the great work, Daniel! 14:48:54 Daniel: Thank you to Emmanuelle for the very helpful comments. 14:48:59 thanks everyone 14:49:01 Antoine: And thanks to Daniel. 14:49:19 q+ to point out that Jodi is part of that team now too 14:49:30 ACTION: Chairs, Karen, Peter to migrate wiki content to HTML after wiki content is frozen on 25 August call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html#action16] 14:49:33 zakimn, ack tbaker 14:49:35 --Continues 14:49:41 zakim, mute me 14:49:41 dvilasuero should now be muted 14:49:45 zakim, ack tbkaer 14:49:45 I see tbaker on the speaker queue 14:49:52 zakim, ack tbaker 14:49:52 tbaker, you wanted to point out that Jodi is part of that team now too 14:49:53 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:50:10 Sounds good. 14:50:17 q+ 14:50:38 zakim, ack kcoyle 14:50:38 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:50:41 Tom: We can continue to use Zakim in the Thursday slot; suggest report converters use this for discussion. 14:51:14 Tom: I will take lead for this activity. 14:51:39 q+ 14:51:43 ACTION: Chairs to prepare press release with W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html#action17] 14:51:46 zakim, ack emma 14:51:46 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:51:46 --Continues 14:53:13 Emma: Can use format generally used in previous W3C press releases. 14:53:36 q+ to address the issue of application profiles - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Aug/0134.html 14:53:57 zakim, ack tbaker 14:53:57 tbaker, you wanted to address the issue of application profiles - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Aug/0134.html 14:54:00 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:54:49 rrsagent, please draft minutes 14:54:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-minutes.html emma 14:55:29 Tom: References to application profiles in the report are somewhat confused, and should be clarified. 14:56:48 q+ 14:56:50 q+ 14:56:52 ... a substantial change; proposed in email. 14:56:54 zakim, unmute me 14:57:00 zakim, ack jeff_ 14:57:05 jeff_ should no longer be muted 14:57:09 I see antoine on the speaker queue 14:57:19 Jeff: Is there a better term to use instead of application profile? 14:57:35 q+ to say I don't think the problem is with the term "application profile" 14:58:02 zakim, ack tbaker 14:58:05 tbaker, you wanted to say I don't think the problem is with the term "application profile" 14:58:06 I see antoine on the speaker queue 14:59:03 Tom's comments at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Aug/0134.html 14:59:14 Tom: The problem is that the concept is not related to alignments (where it is currently referenced), but it is related closely to re-use of elements. 14:59:57 +1 to Tom's explanation 14:59:59 +1 15:00:06 zakim, mute me 15:00:06 jeff_ should now be muted 15:01:46 Antoine: I will send some comments on the proposals via email immediately after this call, and allow an additional day of discussion. 15:02:39 +1 15:02:50 Antoine: No objections to proposal to rename Linking issues section. 15:03:00 zakim, unmute me 15:03:13 fine either way 15:03:33 jeff_ should no longer be muted 15:03:36 Jeff: No objection. 15:03:43 q+ 15:03:53 zakim, ack michaelp 15:04:00 zakim, mute me 15:04:24 "Semantic interoperability of vocabularies"? 15:04:34 Michael: "Interoperability" better than "Alignment"? 15:04:42 unmuting michaelp 15:04:50 I see antoine on the speaker queue 15:05:00 jeff_ should now be muted 15:05:26 q+ to suggest we need a day to clear this up too... 15:05:39 Antoine: Will ensure alignment is appropriately defined in the report. 15:05:45 zakim, ack tbaker 15:05:49 yes, we need another day to clear this up 15:06:52 tbaker, you wanted to suggest we need a day to clear this up too... 15:06:53 I see antoine on the speaker queue 15:08:20 Antoine: Various tasks to complete, but nothing significant. 15:08:45 Topic: TRANSITION TO W3C COMMUNITY GROUP 15:09:10 Antoine: Little new to report; no strong leadership at this moment. 15:09:36 We may want to see reaction to the report before seeing if there is a desire for a community group. 15:09:49 Topic: CLOSE INCUBATOR GROUP AND HAND OVER TO PUBLICATION EDITORS 15:10:23 Antoine: This was the final official telecon. We will continue over the next few weeks to finish off the report. 15:10:26 applause 15:10:27 one last comment : thank you everyone !!!! 15:10:38 ... Fantastic work has been done; thank you everyone. 15:10:44 thank you very much everyone!!! 15:10:53 A great team and a great year. Thanks the leaders and thank you everyone!!! 15:11:02 great time working with you all 15:11:02 Thanks to everyone, especially the chairs! 15:11:15 Thank you everyone!! 15:11:15 Great to see the conclusion. I think this will be a landmark report. 15:11:15 Antoine: I hope we keep in touch ... 15:11:18 yes, definitely - thanks so much chairs and everyone 15:11:22 Great thanks to the chairs for shepherding the group! 15:11:41 I think we're done! 15:12:14 thanks! 15:12:15 Keep in touch! bye 15:12:17 -pmurray 15:12:23 -kcoyle 15:12:23 Bye! 15:12:23 Thank all of you, and especially to the people working on the final steps 15:12:24 -michaelp 15:12:26 -marcia 15:12:28 -jeff_ 15:12:28 pmurray has left #lld 15:12:31 -rsinger 15:12:31 bye!! 15:12:37 zakim, please list attendees 15:12:37 As of this point the attendees have been rsinger, tbaker, antoine, emma, marcia, kcoyle, pmurray, GordonD, dvilasuero, jeff_, michaelp, jneubert 15:12:39 jeff_ has left #lld 15:12:44 -jneubert 15:12:44 -dvilasuero 15:12:49 rrsagent, please draft minutes 15:12:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-minutes.html antoine 15:12:58 I'm still here 15:13:09 zakim, unmute me 15:13:09 GordonD should no longer be muted 15:14:51 ACTION: Tom and Antoine to draft acknowledgements. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html#action06] 15:15:06 --Done 15:15:34 rrsagent, please draft minutes 15:15:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-minutes.html antoine 15:15:42 michaelp has left #lld 15:17:48 zakim, bye 15:17:48 leaving. As of this point the attendees were rsinger, tbaker, antoine, emma, marcia, kcoyle, pmurray, GordonD, dvilasuero, jeff_, michaelp, jneubert 15:17:48 Zakim has left #lld 15:17:54 rrsagent, bye 15:17:54 I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-actions.rdf : 15:17:54 ACTION: Tom to post an announcement to the list that comment period has ended [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html#action03] [1] 15:17:54 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-irc#T14-06-31 15:17:54 ACTION: Tom to post an announcement to the list that comment period has ended [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html#action03] [2] 15:17:54 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-irc#T14-06-44 15:17:54 ACTION: Chair to solicit feedback from W3C contacts regarding the editor list issue. [3] 15:17:54 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-irc#T14-32-12 15:17:54 ACTION: Karen, Tom, Michael, and Gordon to write the executive summary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/21-lld-minutes.html#action05] [4] 15:17:54 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-irc#T14-36-05 15:17:54 ACTION: Karen and Emma to write a sentence in Scope adding cultural and memory institutions together in some way [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/07-lld-minutes.html#action03] [5] 15:17:54 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-irc#T14-36-31 15:17:54 ACTION: Ross to propose sentence in Benefits about sum being more than the parts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html#action07] [6] 15:17:54 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-irc#T14-37-17 15:17:54 ACTION: Emma to review Use Cases and make comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/07/07-lld-minutes.html#action07] [7] 15:17:54 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-irc#T14-48-20 15:17:54 ACTION: Chairs, Karen, Peter to migrate wiki content to HTML after wiki content is frozen on 25 August call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html#action16] [8] 15:17:54 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-irc#T14-49-30 15:17:54 ACTION: Chairs to prepare press release with W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html#action17] [9] 15:17:54 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-irc#T14-51-43 15:17:54 ACTION: Tom and Antoine to draft acknowledgements. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-lld-minutes.html#action06] [10] 15:17:54 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-lld-irc#T15-14-51