14:58:34 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:58:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-html-a11y-irc
14:58:36 RRSAgent, make logs world
14:58:36 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:58:38 Zakim, this will be 2119
14:58:38 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:39 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:58:39 Date: 25 August 2011
14:58:49 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started
14:59:06 zakim, who's here?
14:59:06 On the phone I see no one
14:59:07 On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, MichaelC, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]
14:59:13 +??P54
14:59:24 zakim, ??P54 is Janina
14:59:25 +Janina; got it
14:59:52 Zakim, call Mike
14:59:52 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
14:59:54 +Mike
15:03:21 +John_Foliot
15:04:29 JF has joined #html-a11y
15:05:24 Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:05:31 zakim, who's here?
15:06:09 +Judy
15:06:43 On the phone I see Janina, Mike, John_Foliot, Judy
15:07:41 On IRC I see Judy, JF, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, MichaelC, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]
15:09:22 zakim, who's here?
15:09:22 On the phone I see Janina, Mike, John_Foliot, Judy
15:09:25 On IRC I see Judy, JF, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, MichaelC, davidb, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]
15:12:32 +Michael_Cooper
15:13:53 +??P12
15:14:32 LeonieWatson has joined #html-a11y
15:15:56 zakim, ??P12 is Léonie_Watson
15:15:56 +Léonie_Watson; got it
15:16:32 scribe: JF
15:16:51 MC: summary of the work of bug-triage team
15:17:28 members of team include Leonie, M. Cooper, Marco Ranon, Hans Hillen, Everett Zuefeltt
15:17:39 have a working plan for the next few weeks
15:17:51 -> http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-a11y-bugs-minutes Bug triage minutes 23 August 2011
15:18:07 bug triage sub-team looking at a11y bugs since LC that aren't yet a11ytf
15:18:11 to decide if they need to be TF priorities
15:18:23 JS: looking at the consensus policy, and see if we can tweak it to better reflect how we are working today
15:18:29 towards a next step which is pushing back on priority assignments made by chairs
15:18:34 if needed
15:18:44 a window for that in early september
15:19:02 JS: it appears for example that much of the work has been emerging from the sub-teams
15:19:02 next sub-team will look at all bugs since LC and determine if they have a11y relationship
15:19:16 then proceed with triaging those over the upcoming quarter
15:19:48 it seems however that we are voting 3 times on the same issue
15:19:51 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Aug/0567.html
15:20:03 which leads to some confusion
15:20:12 chair: Janina_Sajka
15:20:20 JS: if we can reduce the amount of voting, even down to 2, then that is a win
15:20:46 would like to see us acknowledge that much of the heavy lifting is being done at the sub-team level
15:21:17 and if we assign work-effort to a sub-team, that this TF then support the expertw charged with that work
15:21:32 q+
15:21:35 so perhaps allow the sub-teams to work a little more inofrmally
15:21:50 s/inofrmally/informally
15:22:47 JS: looking at both media and canvas, this larger TF normally accepted the recommendations of the sub-team without question
15:23:39 JB: have started to brains-storm, but we need to be very clear on what problem(s) we aqre trying to solve
15:23:53 it seems that perhaps the process is overly complex
15:24:38 JB: the multi step nature means that it can cause some delay
15:24:59 perhaps associated to the WBS survey mechanism
15:26:35 JB: so, envisioning different scenarios, are the ways we can avoid being delayed. Perhaps 2 levels of formality/process
15:27:03 so for example bug filing and issue of re-open requests and what-not
15:27:27 Perhaps those could be assigned to the sub-groups. But there may also be other things that would be better handled with a more formal process
15:28:04 so it would be useful to enumerate issues and scenarios where the process is stalling work, and then look to see if we can revisit the process there
15:28:39 JS: one thing specifically missing is because we do not say anything about the sub-teams in the consensus policy process
15:28:59 so we cannot point to the fact that the sub-teams are working on a particular issue/point
15:29:18 JB: not sure however if that addresses the requirement for different work-flow
15:29:35 JS: where to kick into a more formal process is worth investigating
15:30:13 JS: Looking at issues within the media sub-team, that group discussed and reach agreement, and then it was pushed through often directly to the larger
15:30:26 WG without it going through this Thursday meeting
15:30:52 q?
15:30:53 (it skiped right oinofrmally this group), and it was non-controversial
15:30:53 q+
15:31:20 s/oinofrmally /over
15:31:41 JB: are you then proposing to draft something different for others to review?
15:31:51 JS: yes, exactly. just seeking feedback
15:31:58 ack judy
15:33:17 q+
15:36:43 q-
15:36:56 JS: likes that the facilitators can guide discussion and move things forward
15:37:24 agree that there are other issues that might be more sensitive, and so sensitive things are likely to end up in surveys
15:37:29 +Rich
15:37:43 media, canvas, aria-mappings were less controversial
15:37:48 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:38:38 q+
15:39:10 ack L
15:39:26 LW: agree in principle with what Janina is proposing
15:39:52 JS: wonders if Mike TM has any feedback about this line of process discussion
15:39:55 -Judy
15:40:26 MS: the way the HTML5 process has evolved is that it was originally written by maciej, and then has been fine-tuned over the longer haul
15:40:49 MS: but it all starts with somebody initially writing up something, and then seeking wider feedback
15:41:07 MS: so that would need to happen. but having a streamlined process is overall a good thing
15:41:41 JS: seems I am volunteering to write a new draft - hopefully I can have that in early September
15:42:10 JS: ASking Rich for feedback on Canvas
15:42:25 RS: waiting for Ian to respond to Chalrs Pritchard re: changes to focus management
15:42:42 RS: there was something for scroll-into-view
15:43:08 talked with Jonas, and if wee can put the paths in, then we can use a CSS property that is already in the layout engine
15:43:30 just need to ensue that the CP for that, that anything having to do with CSS functions would also be applicable there
15:43:38 so agreed that it could be closed
15:44:11 s/Chalrs/Charles
15:44:41 RS: another defect is on content-editable and designmode
15:45:06 Ayreh agreed that this needed to be re-written, and that is moving forward
15:45:23 JS: this will be re-integrated into the HTML5 spec
15:45:40 RS: the other issue is around the standardized keyboard input
15:46:07 instead of putting those features into that part of the document, they wanted to put it into a seperate authoring spec
15:47:00 RS: Ayreh has created a seperate document - issue is that it is a document outside of W3C, even though it is actually a good ide
15:47:09 s/ide/idea
15:47:33 there is some discussion about how to bring that into the W3C. Ayreh not keen on following the W3C process
15:48:17 RS: reading the note from Ayreh about W3C Community Groups
15:48:57 so this looks like Ayreh will look to use this forum to bring it back into W3C
15:49:30 RS: I think this is a good thing that the W3C is making things more open and nimble then it's a good thing
15:49:48 and this editing spec likely moving into W3C space is an example of why
15:50:29 https://plus.google.com/stream/circles/p2c387a7408241602
15:50:40 +Judy
15:50:52 RS: not sure if everyone can read that, but this is/was Ayreh's posting
15:52:44 http://www.w3.org/community/editing/
15:54:51 q?
15:55:23 RS: Have heard a bit about Community Groups, but curious how that process and not being on Rec Track works
15:55:41 JB: I am also investigating this at this time, but not ready to answer at this time
15:56:11 JB: text sub-team udate
15:56:20 s/udate/update
15:56:52 have been looking at the table summary issue, the meta generator issue, and the response to Jonas' longdesc CP
15:57:29 with meta-name and summary we are still looking for more feedback
15:57:45 John's draft response to Jonas - he's looking for more editorial feedback
15:58:41 JB; we have also noted that the next 2 Mondays present schedule conflicts
15:59:02 so we are looking at a possible day-shift as a one-off
15:59:39 (wonders if aiming for a Tuesday 4:00 PM Boston time would work - wondering on impact for European attendees)
16:00:20 JB: but looking to move it to a more regular time slot that is not Monday
16:01:37 JB: will try some alternative dates and times on the list
16:02:26 LW: the ideal time for me would be Tuesday before or after the bug-triage call (seems like tht is 11:00 PM Bos)
16:02:55 JS: concerned about making a permanent move as that might impact on European participation
16:03:31 -Rich
16:03:44 -Mike
16:03:45 zakim, bye
16:03:45 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Janina, Mike, John_Foliot, Judy, Michael_Cooper, Léonie_Watson, Rich
16:03:45 Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:03:54 rrsagent, make logs public
16:04:07 rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/25-html-a11y-minutes.html JF
16:05:04 rrsagent, please part
16:05:04 I see no action items