15:00:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
15:00:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-irc
15:00:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:37 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdb2rdf
15:00:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
15:00:39 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 60 minutes
15:00:40 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:00:40 <trackbot> Date: 23 August 2011
15:03:20 <cygri> ACTION: Boris to draw diagram for Section 9 (rr:translationScheme etc)
15:03:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-154 - Draw diagram for Section 9 (rr:translationScheme etc) [on Boris Villazón-Terrazas - due 2011-08-30].
15:03:24 <cygri> thank you trackbot
15:25:32 <mhausenblas> mhausenblas has joined #rdb2rdf
15:26:20 <mhausenblas> trackbot, start telecon
15:26:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:26:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
15:26:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 34 minutes
15:26:25 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:26:26 <trackbot> Date: 23 August 2011
15:27:09 <mhausenblas> Zakim, this will be SW_RDB2RDF
15:27:09 <Zakim> ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 33 minutes
15:27:14 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Aug/0124.html
15:27:17 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
15:27:26 <mhausenblas> scribenick: mhausenblas 
15:27:33 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:27:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:27:41 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:45:53 <ivan> ???
15:55:40 <cygri_> cygri_ has joined #rdb2rdf
15:59:27 <privera> privera has joined #RDB2RDF
16:00:46 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
16:00:53 <Zakim> +cygri
16:01:00 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:01:00 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:01:01 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:01:04 <mhausenblas> Zakim, cygri really is me
16:01:04 <Zakim> I don't understand 'cygri really is me', mhausenblas
16:01:14 <mhausenblas> Zakim, I am cygri 
16:01:14 <Zakim> ok, mhausenblas, I now associate you with cygri
16:01:19 <Zakim> +??P7
16:01:26 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is trackbot
16:01:26 <Zakim> sorry, cygri, I do not recognize a party named 'mhausenblas'
16:01:35 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
16:01:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see cygri, Ivan, ??P7
16:01:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see privera, cygri, mhausenblas, Zakim, RRSAgent, MacTed, LeeF, ivan, iv_an_ru_, betehess, trackbot, ericP
16:01:42 <boris> boris has joined #rdb2rdf
16:01:50 <mhausenblas> Zakim, ??P7 is privera 
16:01:50 <Zakim> +privera; got it
16:01:58 <dmcneil> dmcneil has joined #RDB2RDF
16:01:59 <mhausenblas> present+ Richard
16:02:00 <privera> Zakim, mute me
16:02:00 <Zakim> privera should now be muted
16:02:03 <mhausenblas> present+ Michael
16:02:08 <mhausenblas> present+ Ivan
16:02:14 <mhausenblas> present+ Percy
16:02:35 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #RDB2RDF
16:02:45 <boris> zakim, boris is with mhausenblas
16:02:45 <Zakim> sorry, boris, I do not recognize a party named 'mhausenblas'
16:03:00 <cygri> zakim, mute mhausenbls
16:03:03 <Zakim> +dmcneil
16:03:04 <Zakim> sorry, cygri, I do not know which phone connection belongs to mhausenbls
16:03:15 <mhausenblas> present+ David
16:03:25 <boris> zakim, boris is with mhausenblas
16:03:26 <Zakim> sorry, boris, I do not recognize a party named 'mhausenblas'
16:03:36 <seema> seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:03:44 <mhausenblas> present+ Boris
16:04:05 <Zakim> +Seema
16:04:15 <mhausenblas> present+ Seema
16:04:17 <Zakim> +juansequeda
16:04:22 <mhausenblas> present+ Juan
16:04:37 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:04:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:05:37 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
16:05:46 <mhausenblas> present+ Ted
16:05:55 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:05:55 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:05:58 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:05:58 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:06:00 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Marcelo
16:06:04 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Nuno
16:06:18 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:08:14 <mhausenblas> Topic: Admin
16:08:20 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:08:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:08:51 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2011/08/16-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:09:06 <juansequeda> +1
16:09:08 <Zakim> +Souri
16:09:24 <mhausenblas> RESOLUTION: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2011/08/16-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:09:28 <mhausenblas> present+ Souri
16:09:38 <mhausenblas> Topic: Current actions and issue review
16:09:44 <mhausenblas> ACTION-140?
16:09:44 <trackbot> ACTION-140 -- Boris Villazón-Terrazas to produce an RDF Schema representation of the R2RML vocabulary terms. -- due 2011-08-16 -- OPEN
16:09:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/140
16:09:55 <boris> http://www.w3.org/ns/r2rml
16:10:46 <mhausenblas> Ivan: give me the content and I'll take care of putting it there
16:11:44 <mhausenblas> ACTION-147?
16:11:44 <trackbot> ACTION-147 -- Richard Cyganiak to implement ISSUE-29 resolution by stating that conversion to string is done implicitly in any context where a string value is required, and is done according to the rules for SQL's CAST expression. Columns whose type cannot be CAST to string MUST NOT be used in a context that requires a string; and mark the issue as pending review -- due 2011-08-16 -- OPEN
16:11:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/147
16:12:09 <mhausenblas> ACTION-150?
16:12:09 <trackbot> ACTION-150 -- Richard Cyganiak to come up with a proposal for ISSUE-61 (entity ID look-up table) -- due 2011-08-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:12:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/150
16:12:34 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/r2rml/#translation-schemes
16:12:49 <mhausenblas> Richard: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Aug/0130.html
16:12:55 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-61 as it is addressed by rr:translationScheme
16:13:29 <mhausenblas> RESOLUTION: Close ISSUE-61 as it is addressed by rr:translationScheme
16:13:36 <dmcneil> +q
16:13:38 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
16:13:38 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
16:13:40 <Zakim> +EricP
16:13:57 <mhausenblas> present+ Eric
16:14:15 <mhausenblas> David: does this mean the proposal is on the table or into the spec
16:14:35 <mhausenblas> Richard: I only got one comment, general +1 so now it is in the spec text
16:15:26 <MacTed> Zakimz, unmute me
16:15:59 <MacTed> +1 Souri
16:16:28 <mhausenblas> Souri: Agree with David, we seem to rush things
16:16:30 <MacTed> +1 Souri"12:15:43 * Souri frankly, I think we are rushing a bit with significant lat minute changes
16:16:30 <MacTed> "
16:17:04 <Souri> Why is Sep 1 so sacrosanct? We had only decided to make an attempt to meet it!
16:17:12 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
16:17:12 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
16:18:14 <mhausenblas> Ivan: Looking at the history - Wiki page is live since 9 Aug
16:18:33 <mhausenblas> ... to be fair, the proposal has been around for a while
16:20:08 <dmcneil> +q
16:20:22 <mhausenblas> q?
16:20:52 <dmcneil> -q
16:21:28 <mhausenblas> close ACTION-150
16:21:28 <trackbot> ACTION-150 Come up with a proposal for ISSUE-61 (entity ID look-up table) closed
16:22:05 <mhausenblas> s/RESOLUTION: Close ISSUE-61 as it is addressed by rr:translationScheme/NOP
16:22:12 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:22:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:22:45 <ivan> PROPOSED: The working group postpones the last call publication to the 15th of September
16:24:21 <mhausenblas> Michael: sounds good to me
16:25:43 <Souri> ALTERNATE PROPOSAL: Postpone the LC publishing deadline by at least a month, preferably until 15-Oct-2011. (Justification: We need a thorough reading by majority of the group, besides resolving the issues.)
16:26:39 <mhausenblas> q?
16:26:52 <mhausenblas> s/ALTERNATE PROPOSAL/PROPOSAL
16:27:37 <mhausenblas> Souri: We really need to be able to review the entire thing
16:27:37 <ivan> q+
16:28:00 <mhausenblas> Souri: A 95% ready product isn't going to help anyone
16:28:01 <mhausenblas> q?
16:28:12 <cygri> q+
16:28:21 <mhausenblas> Souri: Drawing on my experience from SPARQL WG
16:28:48 <mhausenblas> Michael: Did you check back with Ashok?
16:28:54 <mhausenblas> Souri: No
16:29:02 <mhausenblas> akc ivan
16:29:05 <mhausenblas> ack ivan
16:29:07 <mhausenblas> q?
16:29:40 <mhausenblas> Ivan: I would not take the SPARQL experience as normal - it was much more fundamental (re semantics)
16:30:05 <mhausenblas> q?
16:30:25 <ericP> ,e 
16:30:25 <mhausenblas> Ivan: The question I have is more towards the Editors (R2RML and DM)
16:30:34 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:30:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see cygri, Ivan, privera (muted), dmcneil, Seema, juansequeda, MacTed, Souri, EricP
16:30:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see Souri, seema, juansequeda, dmcneil, boris, privera, cygri, mhausenblas, Zakim, RRSAgent, MacTed, LeeF, ivan, iv_an_ru_, betehess, trackbot, ericP
16:31:10 <mhausenblas> Ivan: 3 weeks seems enough for me re review
16:31:14 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
16:31:32 <mhausenblas> Richard: I have a personal problem because I'm not available for most of Sep
16:31:46 <mhausenblas> Michael: Sep is also bad for me (EC project reviews)
16:32:48 <mhausenblas> Richard: I intend to deal with the open issues till end of Aug anyways
16:32:50 <Souri> schools are starting here plus labor day weekend ... we are in a vacation and then busy with children mode ... so I cannot put in that much time until late September
16:33:08 <seema> I am in extreme deadline mode at work...deadline of Sep 15th as of now
16:34:09 <mhausenblas> Michael: others? what do you think about pushing back the deadline for one month?
16:34:19 <mhausenblas> Seema: +1 for Oct
16:35:07 <mhausenblas> David: I agree with the thought to have a sound review but I have also no problem
16:35:10 <ericP> i have no opinion
16:35:12 <cygri> q+
16:35:18 <mhausenblas> Juan: same as David
16:35:24 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
16:35:50 <mhausenblas> Richard: So, deadlines help getting things done
16:36:09 <mhausenblas> ... unsure about Ashok's reaction
16:37:35 <Souri> +1 to Michael
16:37:45 <ivan> q+
16:38:03 <mhausenblas> ack ivan
16:38:51 <mhausenblas> Michael: happy to take an action to ask the WG what deadline the majority prefers (esp, re Ashok's opinion)
16:38:53 <mhausenblas> q?
16:39:11 <mhausenblas> Ivan: can be a problem regarding the extension of the WG
16:39:27 <mhausenblas> Juan: what does this mean?
16:40:32 <mhausenblas> Ivan:  We will have a hard time explaining it
16:40:46 <mhausenblas> ... in an extreme case, the WG can be shut down
16:41:51 <ivan> q+
16:41:58 <mhausenblas> ack ivan 
16:42:23 <mhausenblas> Michael: If quality increases then we should argue for extension
16:42:31 <mhausenblas> Ivan: let's try to make it anyways
16:43:06 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Hausenblas to write a clarification mail to the WG list and ask for Ashok's opinion re extension
16:43:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-155 - Write a clarification mail to the WG list and ask for Ashok's opinion re extension [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2011-08-30].
16:43:30 <cygri> q+
16:43:42 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
16:44:07 <mhausenblas> Richard: if LC deadline slips then we should really put out another round of WD
16:44:40 <mhausenblas> Michael: yes
16:44:48 <mhausenblas> Topic: ISSUE-48
16:44:50 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-48?
16:44:50 <trackbot> ISSUE-48 -- Mapping SQL datatypes to RDF -- open
16:44:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/48
16:45:02 <mhausenblas> Richard: ongoing
16:45:25 <mhausenblas> Topic: DM
16:45:28 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-65?
16:45:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-65 -- For uniformity and performance, "literal" triples must be always generated for each child table column in a foreign key -- open
16:45:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/65
16:45:33 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-64?
16:45:33 <trackbot> ISSUE-64 -- Predicate IRI design for foreign key does not handle common cases where same column sequence may be used for multiple foreign key constraints -- open
16:45:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/64
16:45:51 <mhausenblas> Juan: I sent out proposals
16:45:59 <juansequeda> [[
16:45:59 <juansequeda> PROPOSAL: The DM will not address ISSUE-64 because it is a corner case.
16:45:59 <juansequeda> ]]
16:46:53 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:46:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:46:58 <mhausenblas> Michael: as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Aug/0131.html
16:47:24 <Souri> But that was the issue!
16:47:39 <mhausenblas> q?
16:48:04 <mhausenblas> Souri: We can say that we do not address it because it is a corner cases, yes
16:48:42 <ericP> PROPOSAL: The DM already address's ISSUE-64 but it models multiple foreign keys on the same columns as repeates properties
16:48:46 <ericP> PROPOSAL: The DM already address's ISSUE-64 but it models multiple foreign keys on the same columns as repeated properties
16:49:44 <cygri> PROPOSAL: address ISSUE-64 by adding a note to the DM spec: "in the case of multiple FKs over the same sequence of columns, the DM generates the same property IRI"
16:49:56 <mhausenblas> Souri: fine with me (re Eric)
16:50:34 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: address ISSUE-64 by adding a note to the DM spec: "in the case of multiple FKs over the same sequence of columns, the DM generates the same property IRI"
16:50:45 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Address ISSUE-64 by adding a note to the DM spec: "in the case of multiple FKs over the same sequence of columns, the DM generates the same property IRI" and close the issue
16:50:50 <ivan> +1
16:50:53 <seema> +1
16:50:53 <cygri> +1
16:50:57 <boris> +1
16:50:57 <juansequeda> +1
16:50:58 <MacTed> +1
16:51:08 <privera> +1
16:51:16 <mhausenblas> RESOLUTION: Address ISSUE-64 by adding a note to the DM spec: "in the case of multiple FKs over the same sequence of columns, the DM generates the same property IRI" and close the issue
16:51:25 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:51:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:51:43 <juansequeda> PROPOSAL: Leave the DM document as-is because it already addresses ISSUE-65
16:51:50 <ivan> ISSUE-65?
16:51:50 <trackbot> ISSUE-65 -- For uniformity and performance, "literal" triples must be always generated for each child table column in a foreign key -- open
16:51:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/65
16:51:58 <juansequeda> PROPOSAL: Create IRIs of the form <xxx/Table#column> for columns that are foreign keys. "xxx" will be some string that identifies that it is a foreign ken (i.e ref) and also create literal triples for the foreign key columns. This would address ISSUE-65 because we would have different IRIs for foreign key properties and literal properties. 
16:52:17 <ericP> "Note that multiple foreign keys on the same columns will produce reference triples with identical reference properties."
16:53:01 <Souri> +1 for differentiating foreign key related IRI from IRI for literal property
16:53:25 <Souri> -1 for leaving it as it is
16:53:56 <Souri> sorry, I have to leave
16:54:05 <Zakim> -Souri
16:54:22 <mhausenblas> Juan: so we have to conflicting proposals 
16:54:39 <ericP> q+ to say that i've drafted both
16:54:54 <cygri> PROPOSAL: don't generating any FK triples
16:54:57 <mhausenblas> q?
16:55:12 <mhausenblas> Eric: We can compare the impact
16:56:42 <ericP> we can compare the documents:
16:56:48 <ericP>   http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directMapping/EGP#defn-row%20graph
16:56:58 <mhausenblas> Michael: Thanks Eric!
16:57:10 <ericP> has the "and where that column is NOT the sole column in any foreign key" exception
16:57:20 <ericP> vs. http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directMapping/explicitFK#defn-literal%20property%20IRI
16:57:30 <ericP> and http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directMapping/explicitFK#defn-reference%20property%20IRI
16:57:38 <mhausenblas> q?
16:57:42 <mhausenblas> ack ericP 
16:57:42 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say that i've drafted both
16:57:42 <ericP> which splits literal and reference properties
16:57:43 <ericP> q-
16:58:23 <cygri> <Table#____column>
16:58:28 <ericP> i'd like to see specific motivating use cases
16:58:40 <ericP> but yes, cygri's approach works as well
16:58:50 <mhausenblas> Ted: We have concluded that not having both breaks things
16:58:59 <ericP> (some distinction like ___column)
16:59:41 <mhausenblas> Richard: Thing is we have -1 from both Eric and Souri mutually
16:59:53 <mhausenblas> ... and both have good points
17:00:26 <mhausenblas> ... one way of combining this would have a different prop, putting it after the hash
17:01:06 <mhausenblas> Michael: Hope this helped to advance discussion
17:01:13 <Zakim> -dmcneil
17:01:14 <Zakim> -Seema
17:01:14 <Zakim> -cygri
17:01:15 <Zakim> -Ivan
17:01:17 <Zakim> -EricP
17:01:17 <Zakim> -MacTed
17:01:22 <Zakim> -privera
17:01:22 <mhausenblas> [meeting adjourned]
17:02:12 <Zakim> -juansequeda
17:02:13 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
17:02:15 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:02:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:02:15 <Zakim> Attendees were cygri, Ivan, privera, dmcneil, Seema, juansequeda, MacTed, Souri, EricP
17:10:16 <mhausenblas> trackbot, end telecon
17:10:16 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:10:16 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:10:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:10:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html trackbot
17:10:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:10:18 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-actions.rdf :
17:10:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Boris to draw diagram for Section 9 (rr:translationScheme etc) [1]
17:10:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-irc#T15-03-20
17:10:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Hausenblas to write a clarification mail to the WG list and ask for Ashok's opinion re extension [2]
17:10:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/08/23-rdb2rdf-irc#T16-43-06