IRC log of sparql on 2011-08-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:56:38 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #sparql

13:56:38 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/16-sparql-irc

13:56:40 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

13:56:42 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 77277

13:56:43 [trackbot]

Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

13:56:43 [trackbot]

Date: 16 August 2011

13:56:45 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #sparql

13:56:59 [AxelPolleres]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0186.html

13:57:58 [AndyS]

zakim super slow today.

13:58:14 [AndyS]

zakim, who is on the phone?

13:58:14 [Zakim]

sorry, AndyS, I don't know what conference this is

13:58:15 [Zakim]

On IRC I see RRSAgent, Olivier, cbuilara, AxelPolleres, LeeF, AndyS, iv_an_ru, kasei, trackbot, NickH, ericP

13:58:19 [AxelPolleres]

regrets: chime, alexandrepassant, birte (at risk)

13:58:28 [AndyS]

zakim, this is SPARQL

13:58:28 [Zakim]

ok, AndyS; that matches SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM

13:58:34 [AndyS]

zakim, who is on the phone?

13:58:34 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P10, ??P13

13:58:37 [AxelPolleres]

chair: Axel Polleres

13:58:41 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P10 is me

13:58:43 [cbuilara]

zakim, ??P13 is me

13:58:46 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

13:58:47 [Zakim]

+cbuilara; got it

13:58:59 [Zakim]

+kasei

13:59:42 [Zakim]

+[Sophia]

13:59:53 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

13:59:54 [Zakim]

+AxelPolleres

14:00:01 [MattPerry]

MattPerry has joined #sparql

14:00:04 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, cbuilara, kasei, [Sophia], AxelPolleres

14:00:25 [AxelPolleres]

[Sophia] .... is that Olivier?

14:01:05 [Zakim]

+MattPerry

14:01:06 [AxelPolleres]

scribe: Olivier

14:01:49 [Olivier]

[Sophia] is Olivier

14:02:09 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:02:10 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, cbuilara, kasei, [Sophia], AxelPolleres, MattPerry

14:02:11 [AndyS]

zakim, [Sophia] is temporarily Olivier

14:02:11 [Zakim]

+Olivier; got it

14:02:42 [AxelPolleres]

topic: admin

14:02:49 [AxelPolleres]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0186.html

14:03:04 [Zakim]

+LeeF

14:03:13 [bglimm]

bglimm has joined #sparql

14:03:36 [AxelPolleres]

PROPOSED: approve minutes from last TC http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-08-09

14:04:24 [AxelPolleres]

RESOLVED: approve minutes from last TC http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-08-09

14:05:23 [alexpassant]

alexpassant has joined #sparql

14:05:46 [bglimm]

Zakim, passcode?

14:05:52 [Zakim]

the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), bglimm

14:05:54 [AxelPolleres]

next weeks regrets Birte, Andy, Axel, sandro, Alex...

14:05:57 [Zakim]

+ +3539149aaaa

14:06:03 [alexpassant]

Zakim, +3539149aaaa is me

14:06:04 [Zakim]

+alexpassant; got it

14:06:14 [AxelPolleres]

next TC is supposed to be 23rd.

14:06:18 [Zakim]

+ +44.186.598.aabb

14:06:29 [bglimm]

Zakim, +44.186.598.aabb is me

14:06:29 [Zakim]

+bglimm; got it

14:06:34 [bglimm]

Zakim, mute me

14:06:34 [Zakim]

bglimm should now be muted

14:06:58 [MattPerry]

I can do it

14:07:15 [AxelPolleres]

matt to scribe next week...

14:07:16 [pgearon]

pgearon has joined #sparql

14:07:32 [AxelPolleres]

topic: liason with RDF

14:08:06 [Zakim]

+pgearon

14:08:15 [AxelPolleres]

issues at the moment around escape sequences, relates to richard's comment

14:08:22 [AndyS]

See also: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Aug/0010.html

14:08:49 [AxelPolleres]

1) continue on test case coverage,

14:08:50 [AxelPolleres]

2) try to approve some of the new test cases and

14:08:50 [AxelPolleres]

3) look at the status of documents/publishing

14:08:50 [AxelPolleres]

4) look over open actions and comments

14:09:01 [AxelPolleres]

topic: test coverage

14:09:12 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage

14:09:45 [bglimm]

q+ to ask when we can discuss Michael Schneider's comments

14:09:54 [bglimm]

Zakim, unmute me

14:09:54 [Zakim]

bglimm should no longer be muted

14:10:00 [bglimm]

Zakim, mute me

14:10:00 [Zakim]

bglimm should now be muted

14:10:12 [Olivier]

federated query test

14:10:19 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#Federated_Query

14:10:52 [Olivier]

still need to be populated

14:11:00 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: carlos to complete http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#Federated_Query on what's missing on coverage

14:11:00 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-520 - Complete http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#Federated_Query on what's missing on coverage [on Carlos Buil Aranda - due 2011-08-23].

14:11:21 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#JSON_Results

14:11:30 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#TSV.2FCSV_Results

14:12:09 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/json-res/

14:13:01 [AxelPolleres]

:jsonres01 - :jsonres04

14:13:18 [kasei]

I pass all json tests

14:13:54 [Olivier]

3 implementations for JSON

14:14:01 [AxelPolleres]

PROPOSED: Approve :jsonres01 - :jsonres04 test cases in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/json-res/

14:14:04 [kasei]

+1

14:14:10 [AndyS]

+1

14:14:12 [Olivier]

+1

14:14:18 [MattPerry]

+1

14:14:27 [AxelPolleres]

RESOLVED: Approve :jsonres01 - :jsonres04 test cases in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/json-res/

14:14:52 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: to update test case status for :jsonres01 - :jsonres04

14:14:52 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - to

14:15:09 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: axel to update test case status for :jsonres01 - :jsonres04

14:15:09 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-521 - Update test case status for :jsonres01 - :jsonres04 [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-08-23].

14:15:45 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/TestSuiteCoverage#TSV.2FCSV_Results

14:15:52 [Olivier]

csv tsv test cases

14:15:58 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/csv-tsv-res/

14:16:47 [AxelPolleres]

:csv01

14:16:48 [AxelPolleres]

:tsv01

14:16:48 [AxelPolleres]

:csv02

14:16:48 [AxelPolleres]

:tsv02

14:16:48 [AxelPolleres]

...

14:16:49 [AndyS]

I only run TSV tests.

14:17:16 [kasei]

everything but csv03 look good to me

14:17:43 [kasei]

q+

14:17:50 [Olivier]

corner case in csv3 tsv3

14:17:59 [bglimm]

Zakum, unmute me

14:18:09 [AxelPolleres]

birte?

14:18:17 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, unmute bglimm

14:18:17 [Zakim]

bglimm should no longer be muted

14:18:46 [bglimm]

Zakim, ack me

14:18:46 [Zakim]

bglimm, you wanted to ask when we can discuss Michael Schneider's comments

14:18:49 [Zakim]

I see kasei on the speaker queue

14:18:53 [bglimm]

Zakim, mute me

14:18:53 [Zakim]

bglimm should now be muted

14:19:18 [Olivier]

csv : pb with canonicalization of literals

14:19:30 [Olivier]

csv 3 indeed

14:19:48 [AxelPolleres]

cvs03 ... corner cases

14:19:51 [AxelPolleres]

:s1 :p1 "1"^^xsd:decimal .

14:19:51 [AxelPolleres]

:s2 :p2 "2.2"^^xsd:decimal .

14:19:52 [AxelPolleres]

:s3 :p3 "-3"^^xsd:negativeInteger .

14:19:52 [AxelPolleres]

:s4 :p4 "4,4"^^xsd:string .

14:19:52 [AxelPolleres]

:s5 :p5 "5,5"^^:myCustomDatatype .

14:19:53 [AxelPolleres]

:s6 :p6 "1.0e6"^^xsd:double .

14:19:54 [AxelPolleres]

:s7 :p7 "a7"^^xsd:hexBinary .

14:20:45 [Olivier]

result 1 is ambiguous

14:20:48 [AndyS]

q+

14:21:01 [AxelPolleres]

query is ... WHERE{ ?s ?p ?o } ...

14:21:03 [AndyS]

q-

14:21:29 [pgearon]

q+

14:21:31 [AxelPolleres]

greg: result for ?o could be 1 or 1.0, both valid

14:21:43 [kasei]

q-

14:21:51 [AxelPolleres]

... depending on canonicalization.

14:22:43 [kasei]

maybe not completely "separate", but SPARQL doesn't specify. there are several valid options.

14:22:56 [AxelPolleres]

paul: load in update touches upon canonicalization.

14:23:01 [bglimm]

Entailment with datatypes also has this issue

14:23:55 [pgearon]

from memory, the SPARQL 1.0 tests contains alternative tests, whereby a store will pass one or the other, but not both

14:24:07 [AxelPolleres]

kasei: proposal ... to mark test case with mf:requires ...

14:24:24 [AxelPolleres]

Andy: XSD1.0 and 1.1 treat these cases differently.

14:24:50 [AndyS]

Just don't test for legal variances.

14:25:16 [kasei]

currently mf:requies is still (I think) just talking about "open world" tests, but we're using it for more than that in 1.1

14:25:43 [MattPerry]

I agree with Andy. Just remove that triple from the dataset.

14:26:09 [kasei]

right. LOTS of answers :)

14:26:41 [kasei]

q+

14:26:48 [pgearon]

q-

14:27:07 [AxelPolleres]

axel: least path of resistence would be dropping first line.

14:27:19 [bglimm]

-3 could also be canonicalised to decimal

14:27:27 [bglimm]

or integer

14:27:45 [bglimm]

well, decimal is the base type

14:28:29 [AxelPolleres]

"3"^^xsd:string should be non-ambiguous

14:28:42 [bglimm]

yes

14:29:18 [Olivier]

pb with testing bnode in csv

14:29:20 [AxelPolleres]

can I replace "1"^^xsd:decimal with "1"^^xsd:string ?

14:30:52 [AxelPolleres]

PROPOSED: approve csv01-csv03 and tsv01-tsv03 modulo changing "1"^^xsd:decimal with "1"^^xsd:string in data2.ttl

14:31:18 [LeeF]

q+

14:31:25 [kasei]

q-

14:31:27 [AxelPolleres]

ack kasei

14:31:57 [kasei]

I agree with the strangeness of the differences. Didn't notice until very late in the game.

14:32:15 [AxelPolleres]

Leef: I will abstian on that one, since I still find some weird aspects in CSV/TSV.

14:33:04 [pgearon]

+1

14:33:08 [AndyS]

+1

14:33:19 [AndyS]

(prefer to see the change)

14:33:29 [AxelPolleres]

RESOLVED: approve csv01-csv03 and tsv01-tsv03 modulo changing "1"^^xsd:decimal with "1"^^xsd:string in data2.ttl

14:33:38 [AxelPolleres]

(with one abstention by LeeF)

14:34:01 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: to change test case status for csv/tsv tests01-03.

14:34:01 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - to

14:34:24 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: axel to change test case status for csv/tsv tests01-03.

14:34:24 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-522 - Change test case status for csv/tsv tests01-03. [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-08-23].

14:35:13 [Olivier]

update test cases with silent

14:35:24 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/update-silent/

14:35:37 [kasei]

note, the just approved proposal also needs to change csvtsv03.tsv along with data2.ttl.

14:37:16 [Olivier]

I can hav a look

14:37:19 [Olivier]

have

14:37:38 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Olivier to look into test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/update-silent/ for approval next time.

14:37:39 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-523 - Look into test cases at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/update-silent/ for approval next time. [on Olivier Corby - due 2011-08-23].

14:38:20 [AxelPolleres]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0183.html

14:39:43 [pgearon]

q+

14:39:56 [AxelPolleres]

" an empty graph being retrieved will not create a new graph in the graph store."

14:40:15 [LeeF]

q-

14:41:51 [pgearon]

q-

14:43:42 [AxelPolleres]

plesae check re-wording suggested in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0183.html

14:44:27 [AxelPolleres]

"an empty graph being retrieved will not create a new graph in the graph store." will removing this be problematic for LC?

14:45:19 [AxelPolleres]

AndyS: the sentence is ambiguous, and removing it in favor of the formal def overriding it should be ok as "editorial"

14:46:15 [AxelPolleres]

let's get back to those test cases next time.

14:46:42 [AxelPolleres]

topic: publishing other docs

14:47:33 [AxelPolleres]

Axel and lee to push fwd on JSON and CSV/TSV results publication by next week.

14:47:45 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Axel and lee to push fwd on JSON and CSV/TSV results publication by next week.

14:47:45 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-524 - And lee to push fwd on JSON and CSV/TSV results publication by next week. [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-08-23].

14:48:52 [AxelPolleres]

close ACTION-501

14:48:52 [trackbot]

ACTION-501 Review updates in Fed query doc (particularly section 2.4 and 4) for LC readiness closed

14:49:30 [AxelPolleres]

action-514 continued...

14:50:14 [AxelPolleres]

Overview doc now located here http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/

14:50:40 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: axel to fix references in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/

14:50:40 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-525 - Fix references in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/sparql11-overview/ [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-08-23].

14:51:07 [AndyS]

Review by Matt

14:51:35 [MattPerry]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JulSep/0179.html

14:51:48 [AxelPolleres]

axel will try to address matt's review to mayb vote for pub in the next week or two

14:52:16 [AxelPolleres]

topic: comments & actions

14:52:27 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Comments

14:52:46 [AndyS]

I updated it today for RC-4.

14:54:34 [Olivier]

Security issue in update

14:55:56 [bglimm]

Zakim, unmute me

14:55:56 [Zakim]

bglimm should no longer be muted

14:57:08 [Olivier]

Comment on D-Entailment regime, about the chosen name

14:57:35 [AndyS]

"D-Entailment for XSD datatypes"

14:57:44 [bglimm]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jul/0013

14:58:24 [AndyS]

and other nasty DTs like XML literal (boo, hiss)

14:59:16 [AxelPolleres]

Birte: suggests we either don't specify any prescribed datatypes or use RIF/OWL intersection.

14:59:32 [MattPerry]

bye ... have another meeting

14:59:38 [Zakim]

-MattPerry

15:00:29 [AxelPolleres]

Birte will take the discussion on MS-6 on email.

15:00:55 [AndyS]

BTW: rdf:PlainLiteral link goes to RDF concepts for XML Literal

15:00:58 [AndyS]

:-)

15:01:20 [AxelPolleres]

adjourned

15:01:21 [Zakim]

-bglimm

15:01:23 [Zakim]

-cbuilara

15:01:25 [bglimm]

bye

15:01:25 [Zakim]

-pgearon

15:01:26 [Zakim]

-LeeF

15:01:26 [Zakim]

-alexpassant

15:01:28 [Zakim]

-Olivier

15:01:33 [Zakim]

-AndyS

15:01:34 [AxelPolleres]

rrsagent, make records public

15:01:49 [Zakim]

-kasei

15:01:51 [Zakim]

-AxelPolleres

15:01:51 [Zakim]

SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

15:01:53 [Zakim]

Attendees were AndyS, cbuilara, kasei, AxelPolleres, MattPerry, Olivier, LeeF, alexpassant, bglimm, pgearon

15:06:52 [bglimm]

the link is now corrected, thanks Andy

15:11:52 [AxelPolleres]

Greg?

15:12:08 [kasei]

yeah?

15:12:50 [AxelPolleres]

just committed csvtsv03 change as discussed... can you quickly confirm before I mark the test cases as approved?

15:13:15 [kasei]

yeah, hold on.

15:15:52 [kasei]

yeah, I'm passing all the csvtsv tests now.

15:16:00 [kasei]

also, i had a question about the fed tests.

15:16:25 [kasei]

we agreed to drop the requirement (and formal defn.) of variable-endpoint service blocks, right?

15:17:09 [kasei]

if so, is either dropping :service5 (the var-endpoint test) from the manifest or marking it with an mf:requires sensible paths forward?

15:53:03 [alex]

alex has joined #sparql

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15:56:34 [AxelPolleres]

I suggest to contact carlos on the fed-tests... and/or put that on the coverage wiki.

15:56:50 [AxelPolleres]

thanks forconfirming the csvtsv tests.

15:59:50 [kasei]

ok. i added a note on the coverage page.

16:54:51 [alex_]

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alex has joined #sparql

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