IRC log of rdb2rdf on 2011-07-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:54:58 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
15:54:58 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/26-rdb2rdf-irc
15:55:10 [Ashok]
zakim, this will be RDB2RDF
15:55:10 [Zakim]
ok, Ashok; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:55:24 [Ashok]
meeting: RDB2RDF
15:57:35 [boris]
boris has joined #rdb2rdf
15:58:14 [Ashok]
chair: Ashok
15:58:57 [Zakim]
SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
15:59:04 [Zakim]
+Ashok_Malhotra
16:00:44 [Zakim]
+ +3539149aaaa
16:00:44 [juansequeda]
juansequeda has joined #RDB2RDF
16:01:34 [Zakim]
+EricP
16:01:48 [mhausenblas]
mhausenblas has joined #rdb2rdf
16:01:49 [nunolopes]
nunolopes has joined #RDB2RDF
16:01:56 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
16:01:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ashok_Malhotra, +3539149aaaa, EricP
16:01:57 [Zakim]
On IRC I see nunolopes, mhausenblas, juansequeda, boris, RRSAgent, Zakim, Ashok, LeeF, MacTed, betehess, iv_an_ru_, ericP, trackbot
16:02:09 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aaaa is me
16:02:09 [Zakim]
+mhausenblas; got it
16:02:11 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.273.aabb
16:02:28 [MacTed]
Zakim, aabb is OpenLink_Software
16:02:28 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software; got it
16:02:36 [MacTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:02:36 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
16:02:37 [nunolopes]
Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas
16:02:37 [Zakim]
+nunolopes; got it
16:02:38 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
16:02:39 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
16:02:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.562.249.aacc
16:02:59 [MacTed]
Zakim, who's here?
16:02:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ashok_Malhotra, mhausenblas, EricP, MacTed (muted), +1.562.249.aacc
16:03:02 [Zakim]
mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes
16:03:03 [Zakim]
On IRC I see nunolopes, mhausenblas, juansequeda, boris, RRSAgent, Zakim, Ashok, LeeF, MacTed, betehess, iv_an_ru_, ericP, trackbot
16:03:10 [mhausenblas]
nunolopes is with me
16:03:15 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, nunolopes is with me
16:03:18 [Zakim]
nunolopes was already listed in mhausenblas, mhausenblas
16:03:38 [mhausenblas]
present+ Ashok
16:03:42 [boris]
Zakim, boris is with mhausenblas
16:03:42 [Zakim]
+boris; got it
16:03:51 [mhausenblas]
present+ Eric
16:03:55 [mhausenblas]
present+ Boris
16:04:00 [mhausenblas]
present+ Juan
16:04:05 [mhausenblas]
present+ Marcelo
16:04:15 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:04:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/26-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:04:16 [mhausenblas]
rrs
16:04:22 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:04:31 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, pick a victim
16:04:31 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose mhausenblas
16:04:41 [mhausenblas]
Chair: Michael
16:04:50 [mhausenblas]
scribenick: Ashok
16:04:51 [Ashok]
scribe: Ashok
16:05:06 [mhausenblas]
present+ Michael
16:05:13 [mhausenblas]
present+ Nuno
16:05:14 [Zakim]
+ +575737aadd
16:05:24 [juansequeda]
Zakim, aadd is me
16:05:24 [Zakim]
+juansequeda; got it
16:05:25 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aadd is juansequeda
16:05:26 [Zakim]
sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
16:05:42 [MacTed]
present+ Ted
16:05:44 [MacTed]
:-)
16:05:51 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
16:05:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ashok_Malhotra, mhausenblas, EricP, MacTed (muted), +1.562.249.aacc, juansequeda
16:05:54 [Zakim]
mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes, boris
16:05:55 [Zakim]
On IRC I see nunolopes, mhausenblas, juansequeda, boris, RRSAgent, Zakim, Ashok, LeeF, MacTed, betehess, iv_an_ru_, ericP, trackbot
16:06:17 [cygri]
cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:06:51 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aacc Marcelo
16:06:51 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aacc Marcelo', mhausenblas
16:06:56 [Souri]
Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:06:58 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aacc is Marcelo
16:06:58 [Zakim]
+Marcelo; got it
16:07:33 [cygri]
zakim, who is here?
16:07:33 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ashok_Malhotra, mhausenblas, EricP, MacTed (muted), Marcelo, juansequeda
16:07:36 [Zakim]
mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes, boris
16:07:37 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Souri, cygri, nunolopes, mhausenblas, juansequeda, boris, RRSAgent, Zakim, Ashok, LeeF, MacTed, betehess, iv_an_ru_, ericP, trackbot
16:07:39 [Ashok]
Topic: Approve minutes of July 19 meeting: http://www.w3.org/2011/07/19-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:07:42 [cygri]
zakim, i'm with mhausenblas
16:07:42 [Zakim]
+cygri; got it
16:07:57 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.897.aaee
16:08:05 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aaaee is Souri
16:08:05 [Zakim]
sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaee'
16:08:13 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aaee is Souri
16:08:13 [Zakim]
+Souri; got it
16:08:19 [mhausenblas]
present+ Souri
16:08:51 [Ashok]
RESOLUTION: Minutes for July 19 are approved
16:09:05 [Ashok]
Topic: Issue of the day ISSUE-7
16:09:08 [mhausenblas]
ISSUE-7?
16:09:08 [trackbot]
ISSUE-7 -- Linked Data aspects for mapping RDB2RDF -- open
16:09:08 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/7
16:09:34 [mhausenblas_]
mhausenblas_ has joined #rdb2rdf
16:10:21 [mhausenblas__]
mhausenblas__ has joined #rdb2rdf
16:11:21 [Marcelo]
Marcelo has joined #rdb2rdf
16:11:35 [cygri]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Jul/0118.html
16:11:43 [cygri]
PROPOSAL: The WG is of the opinion that the charter's requirement to support the linked data principles is adequately addressed by the Direct Mapping and R2RML, with the caveat that ISSUE-43 is not yet resolved. No further action is required beyond resolving ISSUE-43. This closes ISSUE-7.
16:12:18 [Seema]
Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:13:15 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.897.aaff
16:13:26 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aaff is Seema
16:13:26 [Zakim]
+Seema; got it
16:13:36 [mhausenblas]
present+ Seema
16:14:19 [Zakim]
-juansequeda
16:14:47 [mhausenblas]
juansequeda, problems?
16:15:03 [ericP]
second
16:15:06 [cygri]
+1 to closing ISSUE-7
16:15:23 [cygri]
+2 to closing ISSUE-7
16:15:28 [Souri]
+1
16:15:35 [boris]
+1
16:15:41 [Seema]
+1
16:16:17 [juansequeda_]
juansequeda_ has joined #RDB2RDF
16:16:32 [Ashok]
RESOLUTION: ISSUE-7 is resolved as R2RML provides facilities to create URIs for database entities
16:16:45 [Zakim]
+juansequeda
16:17:23 [mhausenblas]
PROPOSAL: The WG is of the opinion that the charter's requirement to support the linked data principles is adequately addressed by the Direct Mapping and R2RML, with the caveat that ISSUE-43 is not yet resolved. No further action is required beyond resolving ISSUE-43. This closes ISSUE-7.
16:17:36 [MacTed]
Zakim, unmute me
16:17:36 [Zakim]
MacTed should no longer be muted
16:19:15 [MacTed]
Direct Mapping *also* allows for URI creation.
16:19:17 [cygri]
ISSUE-43?
16:19:17 [trackbot]
ISSUE-43 -- Re-using public entity identifiers -- open
16:19:17 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/43
16:20:13 [juansequeda]
+q to say that the way URIs are created in R2RML and DM satisfy the Linked Data issue
16:20:38 [MacTed]
PROPOSAL: The WG is of the opinion that the charter's requirement to support the linked data principles is adequately addressed by the Direct Mapping and R2RML, as each allow for creation of URIs for database entities, with the caveat that ISSUE-43 is not yet resolved. No further action is required beyond resolving ISSUE-43. This closes ISSUE-7.
16:21:02 [cygri]
+1 to MacTed
16:21:06 [juansequeda]
+1 to MacTed
16:21:55 [Souri]
+1 to MacTed's proposal
16:22:36 [Ashok]
RESOLUTION: ISSUE-7 is resolved with MacTed proposal above
16:23:07 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:23:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/26-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:23:53 [MacTed]
s/ISSUE-7 is resolved with MacTed proposal above/The WG is of the opinion that the charter's requirement to support the linked data principles is adequately addressed by the Direct Mapping and R2RML, as each allow for creation of URIs for database entities, with the caveat that ISSUE-43 is not yet resolved. No further action is required beyond resolving ISSUE-43. This closes ISSUE-7./
16:24:22 [Ashok]
RESOLUTION: ISSUE-7 is resolved with the proposal: The WG is of the opinion that the charter's requirement to support the linked data principles is adequately addressed by the Direct Mapping and R2RML, as each allow for creation of URIs for database entities, with the caveat that ISSUE-43 is not yet resolved. No further action is required beyond resolving ISSUE-43. This closes ISSUE-7.
16:24:24 [MacTed]
issue-43?
16:24:24 [trackbot]
Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
16:24:39 [mhausenblas]
ISSUE-43?
16:24:39 [trackbot]
ISSUE-43 -- Re-using public entity identifiers -- open
16:24:39 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/43
16:25:10 [mhausenblas]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Identifier_re-use
16:26:52 [cygri]
q+
16:27:00 [juansequeda]
q-
16:27:35 [ericP]
i'd say we need 3 things to do an adequate job of supporting LD: algorithmic construction of graph shapes, algorithmic construction of entity identifiers, entity construction through lookup table
16:27:53 [mhausenblas]
q?
16:28:25 [mhausenblas]
ack cygri
16:31:09 [Ashok]
Richard: Two cases: use lookup table or use function
16:31:29 [mhausenblas]
q?
16:31:35 [MacTed]
q+
16:32:19 [Ashok]
Michael: Asks about details of implementation
16:32:35 [mhausenblas]
Michael: How long would it take
16:33:04 [Ashok]
Ted: charter says "will encourage" ...
16:33:51 [Ashok]
... make it possible or easy to use well-known identifiers
16:34:24 [mhausenblas]
Richard: lookup table is some hours work, use function dunno (in D2R it's a Java class)
16:34:54 [Souri]
we could use owl:sameAs (requires entailment) if the values to be mapped are all IRIs
16:35:23 [juansequeda]
q+
16:35:47 [mhausenblas]
ack juansequeda
16:36:03 [Ashok]
MacTed: No proposal so close with no action
16:36:22 [cygri]
q+
16:36:30 [Ashok]
Juan: can we push to next version. My proposal is to postpone
16:36:53 [mhausenblas]
ack cygri
16:36:58 [mhausenblas]
q?
16:37:04 [mhausenblas]
ack MacTed
16:37:35 [Ashok]
Richard: We have to adhere to the charter
16:37:51 [MacTed]
charter says "encourage". "encourage" means "suggest strongly" or "make easy".
16:37:51 [MacTed]
R2RML makes mapping well-known-URI to DB-specific-URI, or well-known-URI to DB-entity, possible. is that enough?
16:38:12 [Ashok]
Michael: Not a MUST requirement
16:38:45 [Ashok]
... essentially postpone the use function
16:39:06 [mhausenblas]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-rdb2rdf-ucr-20100608/#GUIDGEN
16:40:01 [Ashok]
Michael: Argues thet we do not have to do anything
16:40:12 [Ashok]
s/thet/that/
16:42:00 [Ashok]
Michael: Trade off between time and functionality
16:43:20 [Ashok]
Richard: Look up table would be a new feature in the language
16:43:57 [mhausenblas]
PROPOSAL: Split ISSUE-43 into two: look-up table and XXX, do first now, postpone second
16:43:58 [Ashok]
... other SQL features are, of course, available
16:44:06 [Souri]
It has to be bijective (1-to-1)
16:45:24 [mhausenblas]
q?
16:45:34 [cygri]
PROPOSAL: Split ISSUE-43 into two: 1. add lookup table feature to R2RML (similar to existing D2RQ feature); 2. call to external function/service. Do 1 now, postpone 2.
16:45:43 [Ashok]
Michael: Look-up table is low-hanging fruit ... we could do it quickly
16:46:01 [Souri]
q+
16:46:08 [mhausenblas]
ack Souri
16:46:24 [cygri]
(D2RQ lookup tables are described here: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Entity_disambiguation#Mapping_tables_in_D2RQ )
16:46:24 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:46:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/26-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:46:57 [Ashok]
Souri: Lookup table has to be bijective with constraints on the type
16:47:55 [Ashok]
Michael: Just trying to solve the issue quickly
16:47:59 [mhausenblas]
PROPOSAL: Postpone ISSUE-43
16:48:06 [Souri]
I would say, we will evaluate if part 1 can be done now
16:48:07 [Ashok]
Ashok: I vote to postpone entire issue
16:48:12 [MacTed]
+1 postpone ISSUE-43
16:48:21 [MacTed]
I agree -- lookup table is harder than it looks.
16:48:21 [cygri]
-1
16:48:31 [MacTed]
(may easily and immediately grow well beyond "unwieldy")
16:49:12 [ericP]
how much functionality do we get with a special lookup table than we do implementing it in the SQL view?
16:49:29 [cygri]
PROPOSAL: Split ISSUE-43 into two: 1. add lookup table feature to R2RML (similar to existing D2RQ feature); 2. call to external function/service. Postpone 2.
16:49:40 [Souri]
I am okay with evaluating it, but be ready to postpone it if we find it difficult
16:49:51 [mhausenblas]
+1
16:50:25 [nunolopes]
+1
16:50:33 [MacTed]
+1 split and immediately postpone part 2
16:50:41 [Souri]
+1
16:50:42 [boris]
+1
16:50:45 [juansequeda]
+`1
16:50:49 [Ashok]
RESOLUTION: ISSUE-43 into two: 1. add lookup table feature to R2RML (similar to existing D2RQ feature); 2. call to external function/service. Postpone 2.
16:50:51 [juansequeda]
+1
16:51:26 [mhausenblas]
ACTION: Hausenblas to implement resolution re ISSUE-43
16:51:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-148 - Implement resolution re ISSUE-43 [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2011-08-02].
16:52:15 [Ashok]
Topic: ISSUE-40
16:52:52 [MacTed]
Zakim, who's noisy?
16:52:57 [juansequeda]
q+
16:53:03 [Zakim]
MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: mhausenblas (86%), MacTed (32%)
16:53:04 [mhausenblas]
ack juansequeda
16:53:18 [mhausenblas]
s/Topic: ISSUE-40/Topic: Direct Mapping
16:53:25 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:53:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/26-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:53:29 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
16:53:29 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
16:53:30 [Ashok]
Juan: I have been working on this
16:53:57 [cygri]
q+
16:54:04 [Ashok]
... I also have to wrote the note on NULLs
16:54:56 [Ashok]
... I will send mail
16:55:33 [Ashok]
s/wrote/write/
16:55:46 [mhausenblas]
ack cygri
16:55:57 [Ashok]
Michael: The NULLs note is not on the REC track. No rush on that.
16:57:23 [Ashok]
Discussion on alternate approaches to describing DM
16:57:47 [cygri]
q+
16:58:09 [Ashok]
Marcelo: I think we should keep both
16:58:22 [Ashok]
Eric: Can we test the rules
16:58:42 [mhausenblas]
ack cygri
16:58:44 [Ashok]
s/rules/rules?/
16:59:20 [Ashok]
Richard: If we have 2 normative descriptions I will object
17:00:00 [Ashok]
... if we have one normative and the other is a re-phrasing, that's ok
17:01:51 [Ashok]
Michael: We need to posypone this discussion ... out of time
17:01:58 [boris]
I think editors should reach an agreement on that
17:02:02 [Ashok]
s/posypone/postpone/
17:02:20 [Zakim]
-mhausenblas
17:02:22 [Zakim]
-Seema
17:02:22 [Zakim]
-EricP
17:02:24 [Zakim]
-Souri
17:02:25 [Zakim]
-juansequeda
17:02:28 [Zakim]
-Marcelo
17:02:30 [Zakim]
-MacTed
17:02:32 [Zakim]
-Ashok_Malhotra
17:02:34 [Zakim]
SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
17:02:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were Ashok_Malhotra, +3539149aaaa, EricP, mhausenblas, +1.781.273.aabb, MacTed, nunolopes, +1.562.249.aacc, boris, +575737aadd, juansequeda, Marcelo, cygri,
17:02:38 [Zakim]
... +1.603.897.aaee, Souri, +1.603.897.aaff, Seema
17:09:34 [mhausenblas]
[adjourned]
17:09:38 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:09:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/26-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:19:48 [Ashok]
present+: Souri, Seema, Ted, Richard, Michael
17:19:58 [Ashok]
Regrets: Ivan
17:20:17 [Ashok]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:20:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/26-rdb2rdf-minutes.html Ashok
18:34:20 [privera]
privera has joined #RDB2RDF
19:11:37 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rdb2rdf