15:59:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #community
15:59:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/07/06-community-irc
15:59:38 <koalie> RRSAgent, make logs team
16:00:07 <koalie> meeting: Community Council
16:00:11 <koalie> chair: Harry
16:00:16 <shepazu> shepazu has changed the topic to: W3C Community Groups channel | telcon code 2382
16:00:24 <hhalpin> hhalpin has joined #community
16:00:25 <koalie> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-council/2011Jul/0018.html
16:00:28 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
16:01:15 <Zakim> +??P1
16:01:23 <michael-IPTC> michael-IPTC has joined #community
16:01:32 <Zakim> +??P17
16:02:03 <shepazu> Zakim, who's here?
16:02:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.404.260.aaaa, koalie (muted), Doug_Schepers, ??P1, ??P17
16:02:17 <johnmccrae> johnmccrae has joined #community
16:02:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see johnmccrae, michael-IPTC, hhalpin, RRSAgent, ben_friedman, Zakim, evan, danbri, manu, shepazu, trackbot, koalie
16:02:57 <shepazu> Zakim, aaaa is ben_friedman 
16:03:06 <Zakim> + +1.919.389.aabb - is perhaps Harry
16:03:18 <Zakim> +ben_friedman; got it
16:03:30 <Zakim> + +43.838.0aacc
16:03:40 <shepazu> Zakim, ??P17 is michael-IPTC
16:03:40 <Zakim> +michael-IPTC; got it
16:03:49 <evan> Zakim: aacc is evan
16:03:53 <johnmccrae> I'm getting "the conference is restricted at this time"
16:04:19 <hhalpin> scribe: shepazu
16:04:27 <shepazu> johnmccrae, did you use code? 2382?
16:04:29 <hhalpin> the telecon code is "BETA", did you use that john?
16:04:35 <hhalpin> chair: hhalpin
16:04:37 <johnmccrae> ah no
16:04:37 <Zakim> + +31.20.754.aadd
16:04:43 <shepazu> scribenick: shepazu 
16:04:48 <danbri> i just got thru but not sure as who?
16:05:06 <koalie> Zakim, aadd is danbri
16:05:11 <Zakim> sorry, koalie, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
16:05:19 <Zakim> +John
16:05:29 <shepazu> hhalpin: we will be in beta for about a month
16:05:29 <johnmccrae> ok in
16:06:04 <danbri> hhalpin, slow is good
16:06:38 <shepazu> hhalpin: then we will meet periodically as the public council, some team members and the group chairs, to make sure everything is running smoothly
16:06:43 <ben_friedman> zakim, make doug a faster scribe
16:06:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make doug a faster scribe', ben_friedman
16:07:11 <danbri> which url? there was one saying we'd launch a couple months ago
16:07:17 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:07:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see ben_friedman, koalie (muted), Doug_Schepers, ??P1, michael-IPTC, Harry, +43.838.0aacc, danbri (muted), John
16:07:19 <shepazu> hhalpin: I hope everyone here has looked at the community group process
16:07:48 <koalie> Zakim, 0aacc is Evan
16:07:48 <Zakim> sorry, koalie, I do not recognize a party named '0aacc'
16:07:57 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/community/
16:07:59 <koalie> Zakim, +43.838.0aacc is Evan
16:07:59 <Zakim> +Evan; got it
16:07:59 <evan> koalie: thanks
16:08:24 <danbri> hhalpin, I sent text / info for 'Web Schemas' group, just a few minutes ago
16:08:29 <shepazu> hhalpin: let's go through the existing groups...
16:08:37 <shepazu> ... ben_friedman is Web Education
16:09:02 <danbri> q+ to ask if the council and/or w3c team play any kind of match-making role, when groups overlap in coverage 
16:09:19 <shepazu> ??: I haven't been able to join the new group
16:10:12 <koalie> ack danbri
16:10:12 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask if the council and/or w3c team play any kind of match-making role, when groups overlap in coverage
16:10:25 <shepazu> danbri: to what extent will the team play match-maker, to help merge related groups
16:10:40 <shepazu> hhalpin: haven't discussed it, but might not be a bad idea
16:10:45 <shepazu> q+
16:10:59 <hhalpin> ack shepazu
16:11:08 <shepazu> hhalpin: we are trying to keep the W3C staff as hands-off as possible
16:12:17 <danbri> does 'existing' count? :)
16:12:53 <danbri> (I meant, existing as a forum is our main deliverable, but sure...)
16:13:12 <evan> q+
16:13:45 <shepazu> shepazu: since each group is focused around a single deliverable (if any), it may make sense to have many small, focused groups
16:14:26 <koalie> http://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/participants
16:14:44 <danbri> q+ to offer feedback - you have a button "Support Group" which is ambiguous; there's a natural noun reading, since there are things called "support groups" (eg. XQuery-Survivors...)
16:14:51 <koalie> ack me
16:15:25 <koalie> Zakim, mute me
16:15:25 <Zakim> koalie should now be muted
16:15:42 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/community/ontolex/participants
16:15:59 <koalie> the group /ontlexica is no longer available, it's a 404
16:16:05 <danbri> I clicked "log in" and gave my normal W3C username/pass, it logged me into https://www.w3.org/community/forum/wp-admin/ ... a wordpress installation for 'Community and Business Groups Forum'
16:17:05 <shepazu> q+ to see who has seen the walkthru?
16:17:30 <shepazu> hhalpin: we want to know what customization people want
16:17:33 <hhalpin> ack evan
16:17:55 <shepazu> hhalpin: we have tried to make this as social-networking as possible
16:18:38 <shepazu> evan: I like the easy prompting, but we'd like to make it easier to transition existing groups
16:18:54 <hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to migrate federated social web group over to community group
16:18:54 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
16:20:14 <shepazu> evan: the groups existing seem fairly topical... should there be more than one group on a topic, or will it work with one deliverable per group
16:20:47 <danbri> q?
16:21:08 <shepazu> hhalpin: we are still looking at how deliverables map to mailing lists... we are flexible
16:21:23 <shepazu> scribenick: hhalpin 
16:22:33 <hhalpin> then if you are spawing listserv per spec basis
16:22:53 <hhalpin> evan: some of the groups may want to do specs in a list
16:22:59 <hhalpin> evan: others may just want to talk
16:23:10 <hhalpin> danbri: the group that we want doesn't want to produce spec
16:24:06 <hhalpin> danbri: our general response is to get the Google group to talk to other legal groups
16:24:19 <danbri> q?
16:24:25 <danbri> ack danri
16:24:46 <hhalpin> danbri: we've got buttons "Support Groups", but right now its kinda ambiguous
16:24:50 <hhalpin> ... does it mean +1, 
16:25:00 <hhalpin> ... so lets make it more of a verb
16:27:13 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/community/webed/
16:27:50 <danbri> https://www.w3.org/community/forum/wp-admin/
16:28:22 <danbri> Service Temporarily Unavailable
16:28:24 <danbri> https://www.w3.org/community/forum/ 
16:29:23 <hhalpin> ack shepazu
16:29:23 <Zakim> shepazu, you wanted to see who has seen the walkthru?
16:29:36 <hhalpin> danbri: we are jumping around from low-level bugs to high-level discussion
16:29:46 <hhalpin> danbri: we could focus a bit more in the middle
16:29:50 <danbri> so "What can we do to help get this to something launchable?"
16:29:54 <Zakim> -ben_friedman
16:29:59 <koalie> s/danbri: we are/shepazu: we are/
16:30:08 <koalie> s/danbri: we could/shepazu: we could/
16:30:10 <hhalpin> danbri: when I logged in I got W3C Forum
16:30:15 <hhalpin> ... not sure what that is.
16:30:56 <danbri> q+ re roles
16:31:08 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/community/
16:31:11 <hhalpin> ack danbri
16:31:11 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to offer feedback - you have a button "Support Group" which is ambiguous; there's a natural noun reading, since there are things called "support groups" (eg.
16:31:14 <Zakim> ... XQuery-Survivors...) and to discuss roles
16:31:28 <hhalpin> danbri: A sense in which we are serving as ambassadors to the mechanism
16:31:42 <hhalpin> ... I'm talking to the Google guys and take schema.org and still have an accountability forum
16:31:56 <hhalpin> ... until today we haven't seen what is done
16:32:03 <hhalpin> ... we're assuming there will be an issue tracker
16:32:10 <hhalpin> ... but we don't seem to have this.
16:32:22 <hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to ask issue tracker
16:32:22 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
16:32:47 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/community/groups/propose_cg/
16:33:27 <danbri> q+ to ask if groups can use zakim ... if so, how
16:33:49 <Zakim> -michael-IPTC
16:33:56 <hhalpin> schepazu: start a test group
16:34:00 <hhalpin> ack danbri
16:34:01 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask if groups can use zakim ... if so, how
16:34:12 <Zakim> -Evan
16:34:12 <johnmccrae> johnmccrae has joined #community
16:34:13 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/community/webed/
16:35:18 <koalie> danbri, http://www.w3.org/community/about/faq/
16:35:26 <hhalpin> danbri: start with less lists
16:35:30 <koalie> look at section "How are Community and Business Groups Similar? Different?"
16:35:38 <koalie> [[Some important differences:
16:35:40 <koalie> [...]
16:35:52 <koalie> Busines Groups have access to teleconference facilities.
16:35:53 <koalie> ]]
16:36:06 <hhalpin> so we could have a flag for group that just for talking shop
16:36:16 <hhalpin> make the internal groups are internal
16:36:17 <koalie> -> http://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/compare/ comparison table between W3C groups
16:38:37 <hhalpin> danbri: if we could point to a list of companies that have said they're OK with it, we'll end up with ghetto of academics and individuals
16:38:46 <hhalpin> ... we should get an explicit list of groups
16:39:58 <hhalpin> hhalpin: is there any other functionality that you guys consider crucial?
16:41:07 <hhalpin> danbri: how about cutsomizable homepage
16:41:34 <hhalpin> ... allow people to adjust basic html, but not flash objects
16:41:45 <hhalpin> ... change the links and put links to youtube channnels
16:41:50 <hhalpin> ... right now it feels too templated
16:41:52 <koalie> [from incubator group experience, very few XGs have customized their home]
16:42:04 <koalie> [the preference was to use wiki]
16:42:53 <evan> evan has joined #community
16:43:43 <hhalpin> danbri: are there distinct roles, like chairing?
16:43:59 <hhalpin> hhalpin: there are no special members
16:45:27 <danbri> i'm ok with not building a super-paranoid super-controlled system at this stage
16:45:32 <danbri> so long as we know how it works is the main thing
16:46:15 <hhalpin> danbri: what kinds of controls do we have?
16:46:56 <hhalpin> hhalpin: right now case-by-case, alot depnds on scalability
16:49:48 <hhalpin> Meeting adjourned
16:49:51 <koalie> reminder that questions go to public-council@w3.org
16:49:55 <hhalpin> RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:49:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/06-community-minutes.html hhalpin
16:50:14 <Zakim> -??P1
16:50:31 <Zakim> -John
16:50:36 <shepazu> Zakim, who's here?
16:50:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see koalie (muted), Doug_Schepers, Harry, danbri (muted)
16:50:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see evan, johnmccrae, michael-IPTC, hhalpin, RRSAgent, ben_friedman, Zakim, danbri, manu, shepazu, trackbot, koalie
16:50:46 <johnmccrae> johnmccrae has left #community
16:50:50 <hhalpin> will do the groups in the following order: Semantic News, Federated Socail Web, Web Schemas
16:51:06 <evan> hhalpin: sorry, question about this
16:51:09 <danbri> whose is Semantic News? I'd +1 that
16:51:12 <evan> Are we still in conference?
16:51:18 <evan> I fell off the internet
16:51:26 <danbri> evan, we're semi-adjourned, while harry does the admin for the above 3 groups
16:51:26 <evan> But I'm back now!
16:51:30 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/community/
16:51:35 <evan> hhalpin: question about process there
16:51:38 <danbri> some of us staying on the phone while he does this, asking a few more questions
16:51:46 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/community/groups/
16:51:50 <michael-IPTC> I stay on IRC for the Semantic News setup
16:51:55 <evan> We've just asked people to move from the old FSW lists and wiki and stuff to the Incubator Group
16:52:09 <evan> I think we're going to get some frustration if we ask people to manually move to the community group
16:52:29 <evan> Is there a way we could automate that process?
16:53:36 <danbri> yeah, mail admin is a miserable thing
16:53:54 <danbri> michael-IPTC, ... really glad to see you're setting a group here :)
16:54:05 <evan> hhalpin: another item
16:54:23 <evan> Which is that we'd talked at the FSWE event about extending PuSH to support privacy
16:54:38 <evan> I think that effort could benefit from its own group
16:55:47 <danbri> zakim, unmute danbri
16:55:47 <Zakim> danbri should no longer be muted
16:57:17 <danbri> i don't see 'faq' in http://www.w3.org/community/
16:57:21 <danbri> except generl w3c one
16:57:48 <hhalpin> ACTION: link the FAQ in a sort of obvious place on front page
16:57:48 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
17:02:00 <hhalpin> ACTION: make it clear that the groups don't have to produce regular reports like XGs
17:02:00 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
17:06:47 <hhalpin> ACTION: should have a special powers for chair, make it clear who chair is in homepage and maybe informal powers of shaping discussion as well as formal powers to customize web-page and kick-out spammers
17:06:47 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
17:08:28 <hhalpin> two-tier system, we need a word for that, but maybe not "chair"
17:08:52 <hhalpin> danbri: allow group to "label" the chair, primary contact point could be "conveyenor" or "chair"
17:10:51 <hhalpin> ACTION: we need a more clear accountability process, council is beginning
17:10:51 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
17:13:19 <danbri> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:13:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see koalie (muted), Doug_Schepers, Harry, danbri
17:13:59 <michael-IPTC> there should only be a set of options for "labelling" a chair - must be clear who takes this role by the Community rules
17:14:21 <Zakim> -Harry
17:14:25 <koalie> oops
17:14:30 <koalie> lost harry
17:14:38 <koalie> ack me
17:14:45 <danbri> hhalpin, i've got to go too
17:14:49 <danbri> next meeting?
17:15:01 <hhalpin> agreed michael
17:15:22 <koalie> Zakim, drop me
17:15:22 <Zakim> koalie is being disconnected
17:15:23 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
17:15:23 <Zakim> -danbri
17:15:23 <Zakim> -koalie
17:15:25 <Zakim> Team_(Community)12:00PM has ended
17:15:26 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.404.260.aaaa, koalie, Doug_Schepers, +1.919.389.aabb, ben_friedman, michael-IPTC, danbri, John, Evan
17:15:33 <hhalpin> as regards doug's point, it's not fully baked yet process-wise, my hope is to figure out what the minimal process requirements are and keep them minimal.
17:17:37 <hhalpin> if we come to consensus, a consensus that should involve the people in beta-testing on requirements for process, then we should bake that into the community group process document.
17:23:31 <hhalpin> michael-IPTC, there should be a Semantic News Community Group now.
17:23:40 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/community/semnews/
17:24:03 <hhalpin> michael-IPTC, if you can join the group and have a look around, tell us what you think.
17:25:22 <hhalpin> danbri, starting on Web Schema group now
17:25:53 <michael-IPTC> will do right now
17:27:05 <michael-IPTC> oops: clicking the Join This Group on http://www.w3.org/community/semnews/ leads to "Unknow Group" error page
17:27:50 <hhalpin> hmmm
17:28:10 <shepazu> trackbot, make minutes
17:28:10 <trackbot> Sorry, shepazu, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
17:28:22 <shepazu> RRSAgent, make minutes public
17:28:22 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', shepazu.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:28:32 <koalie> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:28:37 <shepazu> ah
17:28:57 <koalie> shepazu, RRSAgent makes logs [level] or make minutes
17:29:18 <shepazu> well, that's not confusing at all
17:29:47 <koalie> :)
17:30:04 <hhalpin> michael-IPTC, ok we'll file a bug, since the group is "brand" new, it may take a few minutes for the infrastructure to generate properly, although that is very odd.
17:30:25 <hhalpin> michael-IPTC, I will file a bug and track the systems team down over it.
17:31:10 <hhalpin> evan and danbri, if this bug is reoccurent - i.e. there is a time delay between the group officially starting and the infrastructure rolling out, then you may have to wait till later today or tomorrow to test the infrastructure.
17:31:22 <hhalpin> but you can join an existing group and leave to understand the "look and feel"
17:32:13 <hhalpin> RRSAgent, generate minutes
17:32:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/06-community-minutes.html hhalpin
17:32:16 <michael-IPTC> the SemNews group has now link for Mailing List on its homepage ?
17:32:30 <michael-IPTC> corr: no link
17:32:42 <hhalpin> yes, it does
17:33:06 <hhalpin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-semnews/
17:33:32 <hhalpin> wiki looks fine as well
17:33:45 <hhalpin> not sure why delay in letting people join group, I just duplicated that bug
17:34:10 <michael-IPTC> I see, clicking opens a drop down
17:34:16 <hhalpin> yes, correct michael
17:34:28 <hhalpin> if that is unintuitive perhaps we should change it
17:35:00 <michael-IPTC> maybe add a "down arrow" next to Mailing List
17:35:05 <hhalpin> good point
17:35:13 <hhalpin> ACTION: down arrow for mailing lists
17:35:13 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
17:35:17 <hhalpin> RRSAgent, generate minutes
17:35:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/07/06-community-minutes.html hhalpin
17:35:42 <hhalpin> ok michael, I'll send you an email when we get people to join group successfully, hoping its just a timing delay
17:36:00 <michael-IPTC> Ok, I stay tuned
19:24:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #community