IRC log of rdf-wg on 2011-06-29
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:47:20 [RRSAgent]
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- 14:47:20 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/29-rdf-wg-irc
- 14:47:22 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 14:47:22 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:47:24 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 73394
- 14:47:24 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
- 14:47:25 [trackbot]
- Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
- 14:47:25 [trackbot]
- Date: 29 June 2011
- 14:47:28 [LeeF]
- zakim, this will be rdfwg
- 14:47:28 [Zakim]
- ok, LeeF; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
- 14:47:33 [LeeF]
- Chair: LeeF
- 14:47:38 [LeeF]
- ScribenickL NickH
- 14:47:47 [LeeF]
- Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.06.29
- 14:48:35 [LeeF]
- Regrets: David Wood, ppfs, TomS
- 14:48:38 [AZ]
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- 14:51:41 [FabGandon]
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- 14:51:50 [Scott_Bauer]
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- 14:53:37 [gavinc]
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- 14:53:46 [Zakim]
- SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
- 14:53:53 [Zakim]
- +??P16
- 14:54:00 [ww]
- Zakim, ??P16 is me
- 14:54:00 [Zakim]
- +ww; got it
- 14:54:05 [ww]
- Zakim, please mute me
- 14:54:05 [Zakim]
- sorry, ww, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
- 14:54:28 [AndyS1]
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- 14:54:47 [Zakim]
- +Scott_Bauer
- 14:54:51 [Zakim]
- -ww
- 14:54:52 [Zakim]
- +ww
- 14:54:56 [ww]
- Zakim, please mute me
- 14:54:56 [Zakim]
- ww should now be muted
- 14:55:02 [ww]
- Zakim, thank you
- 14:55:02 [Zakim]
- you are very welcome, ww
- 14:55:24 [Zakim]
- +gavinc
- 14:55:34 [Zakim]
- +??P26
- 14:55:55 [yvesr]
- Zakim: ??P26 is yvesr
- 14:56:01 [FabGandon]
- Please note my regrets (Fabien Gandon, trapped in a meeting), sorry.
- 14:56:03 [yvesr]
- Zakim, ??P26 is yvesr
- 14:56:03 [Zakim]
- +yvesr; got it
- 14:56:20 [mbrunati]
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- 14:56:58 [LeeF]
- Regrets+ FabGandon
- 14:57:31 [Zakim]
- +LeeF
- 14:58:44 [AZ]
- AZ has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:58:59 [Zakim]
- +??P33
- 14:59:03 [AndyS1]
- zakim, ??P33 is me
- 14:59:03 [Zakim]
- +AndyS1; got it
- 14:59:41 [pchampin]
- pchampin has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:59:46 [AndyS1]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 14:59:46 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ww (muted), Scott_Bauer, gavinc, yvesr, LeeF, AndyS1
- 14:59:48 [Zakim]
- +wcandillon
- 15:00:01 [AZ]
- zakim, wcandillon is me
- 15:00:01 [Zakim]
- +AZ; got it
- 15:00:10 [Zakim]
- +??P39
- 15:00:21 [pchampin]
- zakim, ??P39 is me
- 15:00:21 [Zakim]
- +pchampin; got it
- 15:00:33 [zwu2]
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- 15:00:53 [zwu2]
- zakim, code?
- 15:00:58 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), zwu2
- 15:01:01 [AZ]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:01:03 [Zakim]
- AZ should now be muted
- 15:01:25 [Zakim]
- +AlexHall
- 15:01:28 [Zakim]
- +zwu2
- 15:01:34 [zwu2]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:01:34 [Zakim]
- zwu2 should now be muted
- 15:01:35 [AlexHall]
- AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
- 15:03:04 [LeeF]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:03:10 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ww (muted), Scott_Bauer, gavinc, yvesr, LeeF, AndyS1, AZ (muted), pchampin (muted), AlexHall, zwu2 (muted)
- 15:03:45 [AZ]
- what's happening with last week minutes?
- 15:03:50 [AZ]
- I get a 404
- 15:04:33 [AZ]
- Pat was scribe
- 15:04:59 [PatHayes]
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- 15:05:40 [Zakim]
- +PatHayes
- 15:06:02 [LeeF]
- scribenick: gavinc
- 15:06:53 [gavinc]
- http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual.html
- 15:07:05 [gavinc]
- Scribe: gavinc
- 15:07:18 [LeeF]
- (Defer approving 22-Jun minutes until next week)
- 15:07:24 [gavinc]
- Topic: Admin
- 15:07:58 [Zakim]
- + +1.312.348.aaaa
- 15:08:10 [Zakim]
- +OpenLink_Software
- 15:08:26 [MacTed]
- Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
- 15:08:26 [Zakim]
- +MacTed; got it
- 15:08:28 [MacTed]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:08:28 [Zakim]
- MacTed should now be muted
- 15:08:46 [mbrunati]
- zakim, +1.312.348.aaaa is me
- 15:08:46 [Zakim]
- +mbrunati; got it
- 15:09:02 [gavinc]
- subtopic: Action Items
- 15:09:03 [LeeF]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview
- 15:09:13 [gavinc]
- ACTION-56
- 15:09:33 [AZ]
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- 15:09:49 [LeeF]
- ACTION-56?
- 15:09:49 [trackbot]
- ACTION-56 -- Pierre-Antoine Champin to review SPARQL LC WD document -- due 2011-06-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 15:09:49 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/56
- 15:10:37 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Have review from Pierre, looking it over about half of it touchs on the graph terminology. The other half is a good review of the document in general
- 15:10:50 [Zakim]
- +??P61
- 15:10:54 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Do we want to use this as a start of an official review?
- 15:11:12 [SteveH]
- Zakim, ??P61 is me
- 15:11:13 [Zakim]
- +SteveH; got it
- 15:11:23 [AZ]
- +1 as a starting point for a WG review
- 15:11:30 [gavinc]
- Pierre: Original idea to have a group review, current version is more of a set of talking points. Our just submit it with my name on it.
- 15:11:52 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Need some way to get some consensuses around the review.
- 15:11:52 [AndyS1]
- Review is: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jun/0154.html
- 15:11:58 [LeeF]
- close ACTION-56
- 15:11:58 [trackbot]
- ACTION-56 Review SPARQL LC WD document closed
- 15:11:59 [AZ]
- +1 to close
- 15:12:14 [gavinc]
- ACTION-60
- 15:12:16 [gavinc]
- ACTION-60?
- 15:12:16 [trackbot]
- ACTION-60 -- Guus Schreiber to discuss Turtle doc schedule with ericP -- due 2011-06-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 15:12:16 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/60
- 15:12:21 [AndyS1]
- review in the att: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jun/att-0154/sparql-notes.txt
- 15:12:42 [LeeF]
- close ACTION-60
- 15:12:43 [trackbot]
- ACTION-60 Discuss Turtle doc schedule with ericP closed
- 15:12:45 [gavinc]
- LeeF: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Jun/0170.html
- 15:13:12 [gavinc]
- LeeF: No one with an open action is on the call
- 15:13:34 [gavinc]
- ACTION-63
- 15:13:36 [gavinc]
- ACTION-63?
- 15:13:36 [trackbot]
- ACTION-63 -- Lee Feigenbaum to take http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain to SPARQL WG to gauge the impact on SPARQL process and schedule -- due 2011-06-22 -- OPEN
- 15:13:36 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/63
- 15:13:51 [LeeF]
- ACTION-63: Completed and SPARQL WG is in process of figuring out how to respond or accommodate the resolution
- 15:13:51 [trackbot]
- ACTION-63 Take http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain to SPARQL WG to gauge the impact on SPARQL process and schedule notes added
- 15:13:57 [LeeF]
- close ACTION-63
- 15:13:57 [trackbot]
- ACTION-63 Take http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/StringLiterals/AbolishUntaggedPlain to SPARQL WG to gauge the impact on SPARQL process and schedule closed
- 15:14:31 [gavinc]
- Topic: Graph Terminology
- 15:14:45 [gavinc]
- LeeF: there was a join telecon last week between this group and sparql wg
- 15:15:12 [gavinc]
- ... looking at SPARQL graph protocol document, and how it lined up with g-text, g-snap, g-box
- 15:15:58 [AndyS1]
- who here was there?
- 15:15:59 [gavinc]
- LeeF: anyone able to summarize last weeks graph telecon?
- 15:16:02 [pchampin]
- I was
- 15:16:16 [AZ]
- I was there too
- 15:16:41 [AZ]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:16:41 [Zakim]
- AZ should no longer be muted
- 15:17:07 [Zakim]
- +??P2
- 15:17:17 [mischat]
- zakim, ??P2 is me
- 15:17:17 [Zakim]
- +mischat; got it
- 15:17:19 [pchampin]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-sparql11-http-rdf-update-20110512/
- 15:17:21 [mischat]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:17:21 [Zakim]
- mischat should now be muted
- 15:17:22 [gavinc]
- AZ: Summary, matching terms g-box, g-snap, g-text to terms used in SPARQL graph store documents
- 15:17:29 [LeeF]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-http-rdf-update/
- 15:17:41 [LeeF]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-http-rdf-update/#terminology
- 15:17:57 [gavinc]
- AZ: Agreed to align RDF Document to g-text
- 15:18:20 [gavinc]
- ... but concern about the use of the term document
- 15:18:30 [PatHayes]
- sandro, you on the call?
- 15:18:35 [gavinc]
- ... RDF specification, maybe we shouldn't use Document to talk about g-text.
- 15:18:39 [LeeF]
- (i don't think so :-/ )(
- 15:18:46 [PatHayes]
- ta.
- 15:18:47 [gavinc]
- ... Richard to take first stab at creating new terms.
- 15:19:10 [gavinc]
- ... RDF Graph Content maybe sort of... mmm, maybe not.
- 15:19:17 [pchampin]
- IFAIR, there was no clear consensus on that one
- 15:19:22 [AndyS1]
- (g-text is our own placeholder for a real name)
- 15:19:26 [gavinc]
- ... Not sure if we could match g-box to one of these terms exactly
- 15:19:35 [gavinc]
- ... RDF GRaph is used but not defined.
- 15:19:40 [PatHayes]
- +q
- 15:19:49 [gavinc]
- ... RDF Graph should correspond to g-snap
- 15:20:11 [LeeF]
- . ACTION: chimezie, pgearon, PatHayes, pchampin to propose how to link g-box to relevant terms from the SPARQL graph store spec
- 15:20:16 [gavinc]
- ... I think there was an action to define how the other terms can be more or less match to our termionoligy
- 15:20:17 [LeeF]
- (from last week's telecon on graph terminology)
- 15:20:37 [gavinc]
- ACTION-64?
- 15:20:37 [trackbot]
- ACTION-64 -- Richard Cyganiak to propose labels for g-text, g-snap -- due 2011-06-29 -- OPEN
- 15:20:37 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/64
- 15:21:01 [LeeF]
- ack PatHayes
- 15:21:05 [gavinc]
- LeeF: THanks for summary
- 15:21:21 [gavinc]
- PatHayes: We are still slightly muddled about g-box
- 15:21:36 [gavinc]
- PatHayes: g-box is more complicated
- 15:22:03 [gavinc]
- PatHayes: THere isn't anything corresponding. Maybe we should generalize ??? into a graph resource or whatever.
- 15:22:15 [gavinc]
- PatHayes: Anything that can emit graph representations
- 15:22:40 [gavinc]
- PatHayes: would encompass the things in SPARQL
- 15:22:52 [ww]
- s/\?\?\?/g-box/
- 15:22:54 [Souri]
- Souri has joined #rdf-wg
- 15:23:01 [Zakim]
- +Souri
- 15:23:21 [gavinc]
- LeeF: A few actions on people to do the sorts of things Pat just talked about. To give proper terms to what we want to do in our graph work, and in SPARQL
- 15:24:18 [pchampin]
- q+
- 15:25:02 [PatHayes]
- listen to pierre-a on this topic.
- 15:25:10 [LeeF]
- ack pchampin
- 15:25:44 [gavinc]
- pchampin: No clear consense on g-box.
- 15:26:10 [gavinc]
- pchampin: RDF graph concerns somethign with an IRI attached to it, or just an abstract thing, no clear answer
- 15:26:16 [yvesr]
- i believe PatHayes mentioned that g-box is equivalent to a graph store with just one graph in it
- 15:26:50 [cmatheus]
- cmatheus has joined #rdf-wg
- 15:26:51 [PatHayes]
- Yes, just one 'default' graph. SPARQL also says this, in effect.
- 15:27:15 [gavinc]
- LeeF: does what LeeF said in IRC match what your talking about?
- 15:27:16 [yvesr]
- PatHayes, indeed - it does make sense
- 15:27:26 [LeeF]
- s/what LeeF said/what yvesr said
- 15:27:35 [AndyS1]
- Makes sense for default graph.
- 15:27:38 [PatHayes]
- YEs to all the questions.
- 15:27:51 [LeeF]
- q?
- 15:27:55 [AndyS1]
- In practice, there are multiple ways in which the IRI is associated to a graph in the dataset/store. Used as a indirect association. e.g. same URI as the place contents were read from originally. e.g. true g-snap naming. All are used.
- 15:28:00 [AZ]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:28:00 [Zakim]
- AZ should now be muted
- 15:28:02 [PatHayes]
- q+
- 15:28:07 [LeeF]
- ack PatHayes
- 15:28:16 [ww]
- i think i agree with pat and i don't think our notion of graph should be tied to http as such
- 15:28:36 [gavinc]
- PatH: This concern about the term document. Some people assume that the thing is mutable.
- 15:29:12 [gavinc]
- PatH: Thing returned from GET is a Document?
- 15:29:21 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Is a Document a mutable thing or not?
- 15:29:27 [SteveH]
- no feeling either way
- 15:29:32 [MacTed]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 15:29:32 [Zakim]
- MacTed should no longer be muted
- 15:29:39 [gavinc]
- PatH: I don't think the webArch talks about Documents
- 15:29:48 [PatHayes]
- that was Andy
- 15:29:49 [gavinc]
- s/PatH/Andy
- 15:30:03 [gavinc]
- Andy: Document not quiet the info resource
- 15:30:24 [LeeF]
- MacTed: Intuition is never really correct
- 15:30:29 [ww]
- gavin: from our perspective (topq) documents are mutable
- 15:30:39 [LeeF]
- gavinc: TopQuadrant position is that documents are mutable, and it's hard to talk about semantic technologies when you're not on the Web
- 15:30:43 [ww]
- ... or it becomes very hard a=to talk about semantic technologies when you happen to not be on the web
- 15:30:54 [LeeF]
- s/and it's hard/or it's hard
- 15:30:59 [ww]
- ... everybody here does that whether they internalise that or not
- 15:32:26 [Souri]
- s/quiet/quite/
- 15:32:34 [gavinc]
- MacTed: Document is immuatable. As soon as you hit web space, everything is mutable. Unless you have all it's metadata. It's also any specified URI.
- 15:32:35 [AZ]
- From this discussion, it seems that the term Document is not appropriate for "A serialization of an RDF Graph into a concrete syntax."
- 15:32:37 [AndyS1]
- AWWW - "RDF documents" 4.2.4. -- not defined -- used once
- 15:32:53 [PatHayes]
- MacTed: terms are overloaded. In web space, all abstract things have extra properties like date, creation. People dont hold this intuitively.
- 15:33:01 [AndyS1]
- and also xml docments, svg documents
- 15:33:14 [PatHayes]
- Good examples, Andy.
- 15:33:29 [gavinc]
- MacTed: Invent a new term for things that have never been defined.
- 15:33:31 [pchampin]
- q+
- 15:33:36 [LeeF]
- ack pchampin
- 15:33:59 [ww]
- real, physical 3-d documents are still mutable i think unless we go to a lot of trouble (like notarising and such) to make sure they are immutable
- 15:34:20 [gavinc]
- pchampin: Document outside the web has many diffrent meanings. I think it's not used in Web Architecture.
- 15:34:29 [PatHayes]
- As an artist, I can assure you that physical documents are mutable.
- 15:34:36 [gavinc]
- pchampin: I like terms resource and representation. Quiet well defined meanings
- 15:35:05 [PatHayes]
- me too.
- 15:35:21 [gavinc]
- LeeF: How would resource and representation map?
- 15:35:39 [gavinc]
- pchampin: g-box is an info resource
- 15:35:42 [PatHayes]
- HOw about "graph data structure" or "graph data object" ?
- 15:35:50 [gavinc]
- pchampin: g-box is outside the web, I think I agree with that
- 15:36:06 [MacTed]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:36:06 [Zakim]
- MacTed should now be muted
- 15:36:08 [gavinc]
- pchampin: g-text is an rdf representation, and a g-box is a resource
- 15:36:30 [AndyS1]
- +1
- 15:36:33 [ww]
- +1
- 15:36:38 [gavinc]
- pchampin: I think, that's my understand of g-* terms
- 15:36:46 [AZ]
- yes
- 15:36:48 [yvesr]
- yes
- 15:36:56 [PatHayes]
- I think Sandro's original idea was g-box is resource, g-snap is (abstract) state of the resource, and g-text is the rest-representation that the resource emits.
- 15:36:57 [gavinc]
- LeeF: g-snap is an RDF Graph
- 15:37:09 [AndyS1]
- g-snap is also state of g-box at a moment.
- 15:37:20 [pchampin]
- +1 Pat, Andy
- 15:37:30 [gavinc]
- LeeF: g-box is some sort of resource
- 15:37:57 [Guus]
- resource = graph resource, I assume
- 15:38:09 [gavinc]
- PatH: I think Sandro was trying to put our graphs into Rest terms.
- 15:38:12 [LeeF]
- Guus, i think so, though we haven't said so directly (Yet)
- 15:38:32 [Souri]
- SPARQL Dataset = {<default, g-snap> plus zero or more <IRI, g-snap>} and SPARQL Graph Store = {<default, g-box plus zero more <IRI, g-box>} and g-text = a serialization of a g-box
- 15:39:10 [gavinc]
- pchampin: It might be too restrictive to say that Sandro was trying to align with web terms. Was also okay with g-box off the web as well
- 15:39:25 [gavinc]
- pchampin: Maybe we are just focusing on the web.
- 15:39:37 [PatHayes]
- True, I agree. OK, slight generalization. But the kind of thing that COULD be on the Web.
- 15:39:40 [gavinc]
- pchampin: Good to start with the Web.
- 15:39:59 [AndyS1]
- souri - Many uses do fit that model, not all though.
- 15:40:18 [gavinc]
- LeeF: If we whole heartedly take the web view, does it break down when it's not on the web.
- 15:40:23 [PatHayes]
- Can there be a web page that is not on the web?
- 15:40:34 [LeeF]
- gavinc: yes, it breaks down fairly badly
- 15:40:41 [AndyS1]
- Pat - hard to say :-)
- 15:41:01 [LeeF]
- gavinc: you need to do things like ask for URIs and base URIs of a document on the filesystem
- 15:41:12 [LeeF]
- gavinc: ends up being very very weird for peopl editing documents in a filesystem
- 15:41:30 [ww]
- q+
- 15:41:31 [LeeF]
- gavinc: may be intrinsic to people using a Web technology off the WEb
- 15:41:36 [ww]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:41:36 [Zakim]
- ww should no longer be muted
- 15:41:37 [LeeF]
- ack ww
- 15:41:39 [PatHayes]
- Hmm, I don't read REST as saying that all resources must be 'on' the web.
- 15:42:16 [LeeF]
- ww: I don't see the difference between filesystem paths and URIs?
- 15:42:31 [LeeF]
- gavinc: file paths (or URIs) don't behave the same way that HTTP URIs do
- 15:42:51 [LeeF]
- gavinc: when i talk about a URI, I'm inevitably talking about an HTTP URI ... but on my machine, I don't want to go off and resolve the URL, I just want to find it on my local machine
- 15:42:51 [ww]
- s/I don't see the difference/how exactly is it different/
- 15:43:09 [LeeF]
- gavinc: XML _sort of_ solves this with XML Catalogs, but RDF doesn't really have anything that deals with this
- 15:43:27 [LeeF]
- gavinc: SPARQL solves this by lying - it says that I have a URI U, and I resolve it by looking it up in my local database
- 15:43:27 [PatHayes]
- q+
- 15:43:40 [ww]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:43:40 [Zakim]
- ww should now be muted
- 15:43:41 [SteveH]
- I don't agree with gavinc
- 15:43:44 [LeeF]
- gavinc: a lot of machinery to make you look like you're on the Web when you're not
- 15:43:59 [LeeF]
- PatHayes: nowhere in RDF where URIs are required to be resolvable
- 15:44:04 [gavinc]
- PatH: You don't have to do any GETs at all.
- 15:44:04 [LeeF]
- ... except maybe in owl:import
- 15:44:22 [AndyS1]
- I disagree with gavinc as well. There is an URI loosely associated with a graph - not a deref promise
- 15:44:25 [LeeF]
- gavinc: part of it is that our software depends heavily on owl:impport
- 15:45:14 [Souri]
- +1 to AndyS1 (liar is too strong a word! :-))
- 15:45:57 [PatHayes]
- local distortion in the truth-field.
- 15:46:31 [pchampin]
- @Pat, do you mean a Reality Distortion Field? :-D
- 15:47:19 [LeeF]
- LeeF: gavinc, are you looking for terms that are more neutral yet map to resource/representation in a Web context and map to more familiar concepts to people working not on the Web?
- 15:47:29 [LeeF]
- gavinc: maybe, but i'm not sure how strongly i feel about it - there is value in reusing the Web terms
- 15:47:32 [gavinc]
- AndyS: There is what SPARQL 1.0 says about Datasets, and in 1.1 the Graph Store is a mutable dataset.
- 15:47:55 [gavinc]
- ... You do end up with a degree of impersise naming going on.
- 15:48:06 [gavinc]
- ... the graph is a set of mutable slots you can go and change.
- 15:48:10 [gavinc]
- q?
- 15:48:13 [LeeF]
- ack PatHayes
- 15:48:37 [ww]
- so, a graph store has slots (g-boxes?) to contain g-snaps?
- 15:48:42 [gavinc]
- AndyS: The cat is out of the bag.
- 15:48:58 [gavinc]
- AndyS: You can't really change the behavior of developers
- 15:49:01 [ww]
- and when you put/pull a graph you send/get a g-text/
- 15:49:02 [SteveH]
- +1 to AndyS
- 15:49:18 [SteveH]
- people have already evolved usage patterns
- 15:49:19 [pchampin]
- +1 to Andy
- 15:49:28 [gavinc]
- AndyS: Developers are going to be using it. We are more following then, leading them
- 15:49:49 [AZ]
- AZ has joined #rdf-wg
- 15:49:49 [SteveH]
- q+
- 15:49:55 [PatHayes]
- I agree we are wanting to follow current use as far as possible.
- 15:50:10 [gavinc]
- LeeF: I thought we got to g-*, there were not any terms that everyone used.
- 15:50:28 [gavinc]
- AndyS: g-* just used as specific terms to avoid confusion
- 15:50:42 [gavinc]
- PatH: Yes, now it's time to get better terms
- 15:51:00 [LeeF]
- ack SteveH
- 15:51:16 [MacTed]
- when initially put out, g-box felt very akin to t-box and a-box ...
- 15:51:34 [PatHayes]
- Oh God, not a-boxes.
- 15:51:34 [gavinc]
- SteveH: More or less agree with Andy. We have a reasonable number of people using RDF and everyone talks about graph, and no one is too confused.
- 15:52:10 [zwu2]
- +SteveH
- 15:52:10 [AZ]
- Can we capture what we are discussing in terms of ISSUE, and try to advance towards proposing ACTIONs?
- 15:52:30 [gavinc]
- SteveH: People are abusing/missuing the term for named graphs
- 15:52:45 [SteveH]
- s/SteveH/AndyS/
- 15:53:12 [AZ]
- ACTION-64?
- 15:53:12 [trackbot]
- ACTION-64 -- Richard Cyganiak to propose labels for g-text, g-snap -- due 2011-06-29 -- OPEN
- 15:53:12 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/64
- 15:53:41 [PatHayes]
- PatHayes: if we try to keep the word 'graph' in our terms, that might help. Then those who don't care about fine distinctions can go on as before and not be 'wrong'.
- 15:53:44 [gavinc]
- [Wednesday, June 22, 2011] [08:00:08 AM] <cygri> ACTION: chimezie, pgearon, PatHayes, pchampin to propose how to link g-box to relevant terms from the SPARQL graph store spec
- 15:54:15 [gavinc]
- ISSUE-14?
- 15:54:16 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-14 -- What is a named graph and what should we call it? -- open
- 15:54:16 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/14
- 15:54:20 [gavinc]
- ISSUE-30?
- 15:54:20 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-30 -- How does SPARQL's notion of RDF dataset relate our notion of multiple graphs? -- open
- 15:54:20 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/30
- 15:54:24 [gavinc]
- ISSUE-29?
- 15:54:24 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-29 -- Do we support SPARQL's notion of "default graph"? -- open
- 15:54:24 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/29
- 15:54:31 [gavinc]
- ISSUE-32?
- 15:54:31 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-32 -- Can we identify both g-boxes and g-snaps? -- open
- 15:54:31 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/32
- 15:54:41 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Not related to issue 32
- 15:54:59 [AZ]
- I see
- 15:55:15 [gavinc]
- LeeF: What I heard today was advice to Richard in ACTION-34, might be a good idea to lean on Resource and Representation
- 15:55:28 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Don't trust the term Document
- 15:55:45 [gavinc]
- LeeF: I don't think we are in a position to resolve anything
- 15:55:45 [AZ]
- ok, thanks for the clarification
- 15:56:55 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Given that we don't have our chairs, I'm not inclined to make something up. Is there new info to talk about on one of our graph issues?
- 15:57:09 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Are there any topics from the mailing list folks want to talk about?
- 15:57:16 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Otherwise end a little early.
- 15:57:20 [PatHayes]
- Do we want to discuss Pierre-A's responses/comments on SPARQL?
- 15:58:29 [gavinc]
- LeeF: We can't really do anything about those specific comments... we need to work them in to our conclusions and feed them back to the SPARQL group.
- 15:58:47 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Want to avoid stacking turtles, but should someone else look over the review?
- 15:59:11 [gavinc]
- PatH: I agree with it.
- 15:59:35 [gavinc]
- AndyS: What effect do we expect to make?
- 16:00:33 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Not clear yet. One might be to change the terms being used in Graph Store document. Another would be the change the def to align. And another would be to just be informative.
- 16:00:50 [AndyS1]
- (other than specific editorial comments)
- 16:01:00 [gavinc]
- PatH: There are one or two place where from our perspective the document seems inconstant
- 16:01:35 [AZ]
- alright I can do that
- 16:01:41 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Can we get a few people to review the SPARQL review?
- 16:01:55 [gavinc]
- PatH: I will.
- 16:01:57 [LeeF]
- ACTION: Pat to review Pierre-A's comments on SPARQL graph store upade protocol
- 16:01:57 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-67 - Review Pierre-A's comments on SPARQL graph store upade protocol [on Patrick Hayes - due 2011-07-06].
- 16:02:17 [LeeF]
- ACTION: Antoine to review Pierre-A's comments on SPARQL graph store upade protocol
- 16:02:17 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-68 - Review Pierre-A's comments on SPARQL graph store upade protocol [on Antoine Zimmermann - due 2011-07-06].
- 16:02:32 [gavinc]
- AndyS: Wouldn't recommend too strong alignment, as we haven't nailed it down ourselves.
- 16:02:51 [Zakim]
- -SteveH
- 16:02:56 [gavinc]
- LeeF: Sorry if it was a little less directed and focused.
- 16:03:05 [zwu2]
- thanks and bye
- 16:03:16 [AZ]
- byebye
- 16:03:18 [Zakim]
- -zwu2
- 16:03:19 [PatHayes]
- LeeF, what exactly was it I agreed to do at the beginning of the meeting?
- 16:03:23 [Zakim]
- -yvesr
- 16:03:24 [mbrunati]
- thanks bye
- 16:03:24 [Zakim]
- -LeeF
- 16:03:26 [Zakim]
- -MacTed
- 16:03:28 [Zakim]
- -mischat
- 16:03:32 [Zakim]
- -AlexHall
- 16:03:34 [Zakim]
- -ww
- 16:03:34 [LeeF]
- PatHayes, use CommonScribe to generate the non-draft version of last week's minutes
- 16:03:34 [AlexHall]
- AlexHall has left #rdf-wg
- 16:03:36 [Zakim]
- -mbrunati
- 16:03:38 [Zakim]
- -AZ
- 16:03:42 [Zakim]
- -AndyS1
- 16:03:42 [mbrunati]
- mbrunati has left #rdf-wg
- 16:03:46 [Zakim]
- -Souri
- 16:03:48 [Zakim]
- -gavinc
- 16:03:50 [Zakim]
- -PatHayes
- 16:03:55 [Zakim]
- -Scott_Bauer
- 16:03:55 [pchampin]
- @PayHayes, I think you agreed to publish last week minutes
- 16:03:58 [gavinc]
- rrsagent, make records public
- 16:04:34 [Zakim]
- -pchampin
- 16:04:35 [Zakim]
- SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
- 16:04:39 [Zakim]
- Attendees were ww, Scott_Bauer, gavinc, yvesr, LeeF, AndyS1, AZ, pchampin, AlexHall, zwu2, PatHayes, MacTed, mbrunati, SteveH, mischat, Souri
- 16:14:47 [cygri]
- cygri has joined #rdf-wg
- 17:40:34 [AndyS]
- AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
- 18:04:35 [gavinc]
- gavinc has left #rdf-wg
- 18:26:07 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #rdf-wg