08:58:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediafrag
08:58:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-mediafrag-irc
08:58:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
08:58:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mediafrag
08:58:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
08:58:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM already started
08:58:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
08:58:21 <trackbot> Date: 22 June 2011
08:58:59 <Zakim> +raphael
08:59:25 <raphael> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2011Jun/0029.html
08:59:30 <raphael> Chair: Raphael
08:59:38 <raphael> Regrets: Thomas, Erik
08:59:45 <Zakim> + +329331aaaa
09:00:03 <raphael> Present: Chris, Raphael, Davy, Silvia, Yves, Philip
09:00:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:00:48 <raphael> Topic: 1. Admin
09:01:20 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aabb
09:02:17 <Zakim> +??P6
09:02:28 <silvia> zakim, ??P6 is me
09:02:28 <Zakim> +silvia; got it
09:02:30 <raphael> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the last week telecon, http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-mediafrag-minutes.html
09:02:35 <silvia> zakim, mute me
09:02:35 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
09:02:45 <davy> +1
09:02:46 <silvia> +1
09:02:47 <Yves> +1
09:02:50 <raphael> +1
09:02:53 <raphael> minutes accepted
09:03:03 <raphael> Topic: 2. SPEC MAINTENANCE
09:03:34 <raphael> ACTION-225?
09:03:34 <trackbot> ACTION-225 -- Davy Van Deursen to edit the specification and in particular section 6 to reflect this entire discussion -- due 2011-06-22 -- OPEN
09:03:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/225
09:03:41 <raphael> close ACTION-225
09:03:41 <trackbot> ACTION-225 Edit the specification and in particular section 6 to reflect this entire discussion closed
09:03:43 <doublec> Zakim: who is here?
09:03:48 <raphael> ACTION-226?
09:03:48 <trackbot> ACTION-226 -- Davy Van Deursen to edit the spec again to switch back to "ID" for the 4th dimension -- due 2011-06-22 -- OPEN
09:03:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/226
09:03:50 <doublec> Zakim, who is here?
09:03:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see doublec (muted), raphael, davy, Yves, silvia (muted)
09:03:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, davy, silvia, homata, raphael, foolip, Yves, trackbot, doublec
09:03:52 <raphael> close ACTION-226
09:03:52 <trackbot> ACTION-226 Edit the spec again to switch back to "ID" for the 4th dimension closed
09:03:59 <raphael> ACTION-224?
09:03:59 <trackbot> ACTION-224 -- Raphaël Troncy to send a reply to the 4 commenters -- due 2011-06-15 -- OPEN
09:03:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/224
09:04:33 <raphael> First one: Silvia who asked for using the js library for having a validator
09:05:07 <raphael> ACTION: thomas to develop the validator page using his js library for media fragments
09:05:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-228 - Develop the validator page using his js library for media fragments [on Thomas Steiner - due 2011-06-29].
09:06:02 <raphael> Second one: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2011May/0037.html
09:06:09 <raphael> ... from Chris
09:06:58 <raphael> ... except for the loop, all other comments have been adressed
09:07:05 <raphael> Chris: I confirm
09:07:18 <raphael> Third one: Boris and Fantasai
09:07:43 <raphael> The CSS3 spec mentions media fragment: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#url
09:07:50 <silvia> q+
09:08:09 <raphael> The SVG 1.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/struct.html#Overview
09:08:36 <silvia> zakim, ack me
09:08:36 <Zakim> unmuting silvia
09:08:37 <Zakim> I see Yves on the speaker queue
09:08:40 <raphael> zakim, ack silvia
09:08:40 <Zakim> I see Yves on the speaker queue
09:09:17 <raphael> Silvia: I would like to come back to Chris bugs ... we confirmed a number of things, but what has been implemented already?
09:09:47 <raphael> ... but Ian's resolution of some HTML5 bugs goes against this
09:10:01 <raphael> ... so what has been actually implemented
09:10:17 <silvia> zakim, mute me
09:10:17 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
09:10:51 <raphael> Chris: I might have have a version to release this Friday
09:10:54 <raphael> zakim, ack Yves
09:10:54 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
09:11:11 <doublec> silvia: what bugs are different to what's discussed in the email?
09:11:44 <raphael> Yves: at the last TAG meeting, we discuss fragments in genereal
09:11:50 <raphael> s/genereal/general
09:12:14 <raphael> ... the SVG fragment itself (viewport) though it is not a XPointer
09:12:28 <raphael> ... the fragment as defined in XML
09:12:48 <raphael> ... the image that re-uses our media fragment syntax
09:14:23 <Yves> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/linking.html#SVGFragmentIdentifiers
09:14:41 <raphael> SVGview has a XPointer like syntax
09:15:11 <raphael> Yves: the fact we are always using an equal sign, means we don't generate XML id, so no conflict possible
09:15:41 <raphael> ... not something that can be interpreted in different ways by 2 different processors
09:17:05 <raphael> Raphael: should we discuss with CSS or SVG or Hypertext CG?
09:17:11 <raphael> Yves:go for CG
09:17:56 <raphael> Yves: point out the 2 threads, and let us know if there are issues 
09:18:03 <raphael> ... so a request for review from the CG
09:18:24 <raphael> ACTION: troncy to bring the CSS/SVG/Media Fragments possible issues to the CG group
09:18:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-229 - Bring the CSS/SVG/Media Fragments possible issues to the CG group [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2011-06-29].
09:18:35 <raphael> ACTION-224?
09:18:35 <trackbot> ACTION-224 -- Raphaël Troncy to send a reply to the 4 commenters -- due 2011-06-15 -- OPEN
09:18:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/224
09:18:39 <raphael> close ACTION-224
09:18:39 <trackbot> ACTION-224 Send a reply to the 4 commenters closed
09:18:52 <raphael> Topic: 3. HTML5 Bugs
09:19:30 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10723
09:19:44 <raphael> Should a UA stop playing at the end of a media fragment
09:20:08 <raphael> Raphael: stop or actually pause depending on the implementation?
09:20:39 <doublec> Zakim, unmute me
09:20:39 <Zakim> doublec should no longer be muted
09:21:33 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
09:21:33 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
09:21:36 <raphael> This bug is WONTFIX stage, and points to http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12643
09:22:26 <raphael> Chris: I can re-open the bug once my implementation is here
09:22:58 <raphael> Raphael: I'm for re-opening the bug once we have example of implementations that contradict Hixie's thought ... e.g. Mozilla and Opera
09:23:10 <silvia> zakim, mute me
09:23:10 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
09:23:35 <doublec> Zakim, mute me
09:23:35 <Zakim> doublec should now be muted
09:23:50 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12643
09:23:56 <raphael> Raphael: a new bug
09:24:09 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
09:24:09 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
09:24:57 <raphael> Silvia: unsure it concerns that much media fragment
09:24:58 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12426
09:25:07 <raphael> Raphael: looping over media fragments
09:26:00 <raphael> Raphael: for hixie, looping means playing from the start of the media, ignoring the fragment
09:26:26 <raphael> Silvia: Thomas sent numerous use cases
09:26:40 <Yves> but with the fragment, the requested media is the fragment
09:26:48 <doublec> Zakim, unmute me
09:26:48 <Zakim> doublec should no longer be muted
09:26:51 <raphael> Raphael: indeed, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2011Jun/0038.html
09:27:00 <raphael> Chris: we wait for the spec clarification
09:28:00 <raphael> Silvia: as soon as there is user interaction, the media fragments goes aawy
09:28:06 <raphael> s/aawy/away
09:29:18 <raphael> Silvia: I'm not sure loop will be widely implemented anyway ... since most of the behavior could be done in js
09:29:42 <silvia> … I'm in support of deprecating the loop attribute altogether :-)
09:30:01 <raphael> Raphael: Thomas wants to re-open this bug
09:30:23 <raphael> ... Chris and Philip think that loop should be deprecated anyway
09:31:29 <doublec> Zakim, mute me
09:31:29 <Zakim> doublec should now be muted
09:31:43 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12425
09:31:48 <Yves> silvia, it might be a possibility yes
09:31:58 <raphael> Should the UI (and UX) playing a temporal media fragment be standardized?
09:32:56 <doublec> Zakim, unmute me
09:32:56 <Zakim> doublec should no longer be muted
09:33:39 <Yves> I agree with Hixie that this is UA specific
09:33:43 <raphael> Raphael: I think Hixie is right, this is not really our business
09:33:58 <raphael> Silvia: I agree with that too
09:34:18 <doublec> Zakim, mute me
09:34:18 <Zakim> doublec should now be muted
09:34:34 <raphael> Raphael: I will close this bug, we accept this resolution
09:34:35 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12427
09:35:31 <raphael> Raphael: Hixie is saying that this depends on the MIME type of the resource so not HTML5 business
09:35:54 <raphael> Silvia: don't do anything, depends on discussion with CSS/SVG group discussions
09:36:02 <silvia> zakim, mute me
09:36:02 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
09:36:34 <raphael> Raphael: I did generate diff files
09:36:35 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/lc1-lc2-diff.htm
09:36:52 <raphael> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/lc2-cr-diff.htm
09:37:50 <raphael> Topic: 4. Splitting out the spec?
09:38:31 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
09:38:31 <Zakim> silvia should no longer be muted
09:39:01 <raphael> Against splitting: Silvia, Raphael
09:39:27 <raphael> For splitting: Yves (rationale = don't put several ways of doing the same thing)
09:39:29 <silvia> zakim, mute me
09:39:29 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
09:39:49 <Yves> yes, as it is bad for interop
09:40:15 <davy> I'm also against splitting the spec
09:40:43 <doublec> Zakim, unmute me
09:40:43 <Zakim> doublec should no longer be muted
09:40:46 <raphael> Raphael: Philip seems to want that the HTTP part gets out of the spec
09:40:48 <silvia> q+
09:41:00 <Yves> section 5.2
09:41:17 <doublec> Zakim, mute me
09:41:17 <Zakim> doublec should now be muted
09:41:22 <doublec> sorry phone problems
09:41:36 <silvia> zakim, ack me
09:41:36 <Zakim> unmuting silvia
09:41:37 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
09:41:40 <doublec> pointer to thread about split?
09:42:00 <raphael> Chris: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2011Jun/0021.html
09:43:17 <raphael> Yves: 
09:43:35 <raphael> s/Yves://
09:44:37 <silvia> zakim, mute me
09:44:37 <Zakim> silvia should now be muted
09:45:36 <silvia> how about doing a questionnaire?
09:45:43 <Yves> +1
09:46:21 <raphael> ACTION: troncy to open a questionnaire for splitting out or not (the section 5.2 of) the spec 
09:46:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-230 - Open a questionnaire for splitting out or not (the section 5.2 of) the spec  [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2011-06-29].
09:47:28 <raphael> Topic: 4. AOB
09:48:13 <raphael> Raphael: I will put the media fragments list in cc for the exchange with the hypertext CG
09:48:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:48:49 <Zakim> -raphael
09:48:51 <Zakim> -Yves
09:48:52 <Zakim> -doublec
09:48:54 <Zakim> -davy
09:49:07 <raphael> Raphael: goal is then to answer the questionnaire and vote for transitioning next week
09:49:55 <davy> davy has left #mediafrag
09:50:01 <raphael> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
09:50:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
09:50:23 <Zakim> -silvia
09:50:24 <Zakim> IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
09:50:25 <Zakim> Attendees were doublec, raphael, +329331aaaa, davy, +1.617.324.aabb, Yves, silvia
10:05:00 <raphael> s/4. AOB/5. AOB
10:05:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
11:37:05 <raphael> zakim, bye
11:37:05 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediafrag
11:37:09 <raphael> RRSAgent, bye
11:37:09 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-mediafrag-actions.rdf :
11:37:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: thomas to develop the validator page using his js library for media fragments [1]
11:37:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-mediafrag-irc#T09-05-07
11:37:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: troncy to bring the CSS/SVG/Media Fragments possible issues to the CG group [2]
11:37:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-mediafrag-irc#T09-18-24
11:37:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: troncy to open a questionnaire for splitting out or not (the section 5.2 of) the spec  [3]
11:37:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-mediafrag-irc#T09-46-21