14:57:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:57:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-i18n-irc
14:57:39 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
14:57:45 <aphillip> trackbot, prepare teleconference
14:57:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:57:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
14:57:50 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:50 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
14:57:51 <trackbot> Date: 22 June 2011
14:58:14 <aphillip> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2011Jun/0007.html
14:58:24 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:58:31 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
14:58:35 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
14:58:43 <aphillip> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:58:52 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:58:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:59:17 <aphillip> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:59:28 <kojiishi> kojiishi has joined #i18n
14:59:29 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:00:02 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
15:00:09 <Zakim> +??P6
15:00:10 <Zakim> -??P6
15:00:10 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has ended
15:00:10 <Zakim> Attendees were 
15:00:45 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
15:00:52 <Zakim> +David
15:01:20 <r12a> zakim, dial richard
15:01:20 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
15:01:21 <Zakim> +Richard
15:01:25 <Zakim> +Addison_Phillips
15:01:52 <aphillip> zakim, who is here?
15:01:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see David, Richard, Addison_Phillips
15:01:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see kojiishi, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, David, r12a, trackbot
15:02:07 <Zakim> +??P12
15:02:11 <David> zakim, who is noisy?
15:02:18 <kojiishi> zakim, ??P12 is me
15:02:18 <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
15:02:22 <Zakim> David, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: David (35%), Addison_Phillips (5%)
15:02:34 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
15:02:44 <David> zakim, mute me
15:02:44 <Zakim> David should now be muted
15:04:19 <Zakim> +??P17
15:04:43 <aphillip> Topic: Minutes and Agenda review
15:04:59 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
15:05:41 <aphillip> 	Talk with Bert about how to deal with change marks in Ruby spec
15:06:00 <aphillip> richard: dealt with the change marks
15:06:07 <aphillip> ... will ask webmaster to publish
15:06:20 <aphillip> close ACTION-36
15:06:20 <trackbot> ACTION-36 Talk with Bert about how to deal with change marks in Ruby spec closed
15:06:23 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
15:06:34 <matial> matial has joined #i18n
15:06:35 <aphillip> 	Propose move of Ruby CSS spec to WD on agenda for CSS WG
15:06:45 <aphillip> richard: fantasai did it
15:06:49 <aphillip> close ACTION-37
15:06:49 <trackbot> ACTION-37 Propose move of Ruby CSS spec to WD on agenda for CSS WG closed
15:07:08 <aphillip> close ACTION-40
15:07:08 <trackbot> ACTION-40 Rewrite response with new proposal to do normalization in comparison closed
15:07:21 <aphillip> close ACTION-41
15:07:21 <trackbot> ACTION-41 Forward revised normalization letter to CSS including information about namespaces closed
15:07:30 <aphillip> close ACTION-42
15:07:30 <trackbot> ACTION-42 Create wiki page with normalization position paper closed
15:07:41 <aphillip> 	Review Contacts API and collect last call comments for the WG. WG members to perform review.
15:07:53 <aphillip> koji: first cut of review to mailing list
15:08:23 <Zakim> +??P10
15:08:34 <aphillip> close ACTION-25
15:08:34 <trackbot> ACTION-25 Finish edits and convert time zones document to HTML closed
15:08:52 <matial> zakim, ??P10 is matial
15:09:04 <Zakim> +matial; got it
15:09:07 <aphillip> 	Contact epub folks and see if jukugo-ruby can be supported with html5 markup or if something else is needed
15:09:32 <aphillip> koji: can be supported with existing html5 markup
15:10:29 <aphillip> richard: general question was "do we need complex ruby"
15:10:42 <aphillip> .... which means, "is there a way to do jukugo ruby in html5"
15:10:49 <aphillip> koji: double ruby not possible?
15:10:57 <aphillip> richard: possible to do with nested markup
15:11:10 <aphillip> koji: kind of a hack
15:11:16 <aphillip> ... doesn't represent context
15:11:22 <kojiishi> http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/weblog/2011/ruby/
15:11:36 <aphillip> koji: fantasai's blog (above) describes it
15:11:51 <aphillip> ... CSS3 needs to add properties to support it
15:12:06 <aphillip> ... double ruby can be done without rtc, but semantics are wrong
15:12:29 <aphillip> close ACTION-49
15:12:29 <trackbot> ACTION-49 Contact epub folks and see if jukugo-ruby can be supported with html5 markup or if something else is needed closed
15:14:31 <kojiishi> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12935
15:14:41 <aphillip> ... but 12935 is something else
15:15:46 <aphillip> addison: so we may need to file a new bug
15:16:04 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
15:16:32 <aphillip> richard: may have noticed all of the email
15:16:39 <aphillip> ... put all comments into tracker
15:16:46 <aphillip> ... closed and open both
15:16:54 <aphillip> ... so we don't need to look at old tables
15:17:31 <aphillip> fsasaki: link from home page to tracker?
15:17:39 <aphillip> richard: meaning to do that for awhile
15:17:43 <aphillip> ... links from review page
15:17:45 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/
15:18:02 <aphillip> richard: now actually says tracker there
15:18:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:18:30 <aphillip> ... put on core page
15:18:41 <aphillip> ... maybe on main page too?
15:18:51 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/resources
15:18:55 <aphillip> richard: updated resources page
15:19:17 <aphillip> ... didn't point to techniques page
15:19:21 <aphillip> .... and topic index
15:20:01 <aphillip> Topic: Upcoming Reviews
15:20:16 <aphillip> HTML5 WebIDL Widgets
15:20:49 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/core/review-radar
15:20:56 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2011AprJun/0125.html
15:21:24 <aphillip> Review spec at http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/
15:21:34 <aphillip> find() 1. Does it search by ignoring cases? If so, does it take the Unicode casing algorithm into account?  2/ Does it search by using Unicode normalizations? 
15:22:10 <aphillip> 1. Which version of vCard is supported? 
15:22:25 <aphillip> problem because charset support is changed in v3.0
15:22:47 <aphillip> 2. Does it support CHARSET type parameter defined in vCard 2.1, which was eliminated in vCard 3.0? Outlook 2010, for instance, generates vCard 2.1 with CHARSET type parameters.
15:22:59 <aphillip> 3. Outlook and some East Asian vCard providers such as mobile phones use "X-" proprietary extension fields to represent reading/phonetic information (see below.) How much do you care interoperability with such providers?
15:23:45 <aphillip> Personal names around the world[1] indicates that there are some cases where multiple family names are required. I'm not sure whether we should ask the spec to incorporate this by making familyName as an array of strings or not, as one can set multiple words in the property anyway, and doing so may affect vCard format. Any opinions?
15:24:16 <aphillip> Some scripts such as East Asian scripts requires fields to indicate how to read and/or pronounce values, since there could be multiple ways to read a written text. Reading/phonetic field is not only helpful to know how to read/pronounce his/her name, but also for sorting and grouping since sorting and grouping are usually done by reading/phonetic rather than written text in such scripts.  Properties that should consider adding reading/phonetic information are
15:25:04 <aphillip> There are a few ways to solve this issue:  1. Add properties for fields that has reading/phonetic information associated. For instance, Microsoft MAPI/Outlook API adds 3 fields for this purpose; YomiFirstName, YomiLastName, and YomiCompanyName ("Yomi" stands for "reading" in Japanese.)  2. Use an extension of pronunciation attribute[2] defined by IMC. In this case, it is helpful to have utility functions to split reading and display from combined strings, and
15:25:53 <aphillip> [2] http://www.imc.org/pdi/vcard-pronunciation.html
15:32:09 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names#sorting
15:34:18 <aphillip> Marie-Jose Carreño Quiñones
15:35:35 <aphillip> two way problem: culture that is sending the card and culture that is doing the sorting
15:38:06 <aphillip> addison: directionality?
15:38:41 <aphillip> chair: objections to making this WG comments?
15:38:50 <aphillip> s/making this/making these/
15:39:37 <aphillip> richard: needs to be packaged slightly differently
15:39:46 <aphillip> ... make separate comments out of the items
15:41:45 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/5
15:42:45 <aphillip> action: addison: convert koji's comments on contacts API into tracker comments to forward to DAP
15:42:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Convert koji's comments on contacts API into tracker comments to forward to DAP [on Addison Phillips - due 2011-06-29].
15:42:53 <aphillip> action: richard: create a new product for contacts API in tracker
15:42:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-51 - Create a new product for contacts API in tracker [on Richard Ishida - due 2011-06-29].
15:44:28 <aphillip> richard: be aware that instructions on raising issues is updated
15:44:40 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/review-instructions
15:45:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:45:42 <aphillip> Topic: Normalization
15:47:38 <aphillip> addison: summarizes phone call with cssns
15:47:49 <aphillip> richard: will go ahead with css-ns
15:48:00 <aphillip> ... also with selectors
15:48:15 <aphillip> ... peter agrees normalization is important "to fix at a future date"
15:48:53 <aphillip> addison: did not say we wouldn't object to that
16:00:09 <aphillip> addison: need to prepare to ask for a TAG finding
16:02:41 <aphillip> ... 1. here is the problem of normalization
16:02:49 <aphillip> ... 2. list of examples from the wild
16:03:02 <aphillip> ... 3. recommendation for the finding (selector matching)
16:03:08 <aphillip> ... 4. impacts
16:06:40 <David> +1
16:09:50 <David> zakim, unmute me
16:09:50 <Zakim> David should no longer be muted
16:10:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:14:06 <aphillip> action: addison: contact the TAG to ask for finding on normalization in about a month
16:14:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-52 - Contact the TAG to ask for finding on normalization in about a month [on Addison Phillips - due 2011-06-29].
16:14:19 <aphillip> action: addison: create working draft of TAG finding document
16:14:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-53 - Create working draft of TAG finding document [on Addison Phillips - due 2011-06-29].
16:14:44 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
16:15:18 <Zakim> -kojiishi
16:15:18 <Zakim> -Addison_Phillips
16:15:19 <Zakim> -matial
16:15:21 <Zakim> -David
16:15:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:15:37 <aphillip> felix, did you have something to add?
16:15:42 <fsasaki> ack me
16:16:06 <Zakim> -fsasaki
16:16:07 <Zakim> -Richard
16:16:07 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has ended
16:16:09 <Zakim> Attendees were David, Richard, Addison_Phillips, kojiishi, fsasaki, matial