IRC log of webtv on 2011-06-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:58:29 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
13:58:31 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:58:31 [Zakim]
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13:58:33 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
13:58:33 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:58:34 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference
13:58:34 [trackbot]
Date: 21 June 2011
13:58:49 [francois]
Chair: Giuseppe
13:59:08 [kaz]
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13:59:22 [francois]
zakim, what conferences?
13:59:22 [Zakim]
I see UW_WebTVIG(Home Net)10:00AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)9:00AM, SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM active
13:59:24 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time are TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM, Team_(MEET)10:00AM, INC_SSN()9:00AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, T&S_XMLSEC()10:00AM, IA_Team()10:00AM, MWI_BPWG()9:30AM,
13:59:27 [Zakim]
... Team_(RevCadence)9:00AM, XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM
13:59:43 [francois]
zakim, this will be UW_WebTVIG
13:59:43 [Zakim]
ok, francois, I see UW_WebTVIG(Home Net)10:00AM already started
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14:00:20 [JanL]
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14:00:42 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:00:42 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:00:46 [francois]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P3, ??P5, Nilo_Mitra, francois (muted)
14:00:51 [francois]
ack me
14:01:19 [francois]
zakim, ??P3 is probably Giuseppe
14:01:19 [Zakim]
+Giuseppe?; got it
14:01:27 [NiloMitra]
NiloMitra has joined #webtv
14:01:27 [francois]
zakim, ??P5 is probably Clarke
14:01:27 [Zakim]
+Clarke?; got it
14:01:54 [Zakim]
+ +44.161.848.aaaa
14:02:10 [MattH]
aaaa is MattH
14:02:10 [Zakim]
14:02:14 [francois]
zakim, aaaa is MattH
14:02:14 [Zakim]
+MattH; got it
14:02:15 [donghyun_kang]
donghyun_kang has joined #webtv
14:02:19 [Zakim]
14:02:41 [Zakim]
14:02:54 [aizu]
Zakim, ??P17 is me
14:02:58 [Zakim]
+aizu; got it
14:03:08 [Zakim]
+ +1.503.705.aabb
14:03:09 [jcdufourd]
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14:03:31 [Zakim]
14:03:51 [Zakim]
+ +
14:04:42 [francois]
zakim, aacc is Igarashi
14:04:42 [Zakim]
+Igarashi; got it
14:04:56 [francois]
zakim, aabb is Narm
14:04:56 [Zakim]
+Narm; got it
14:06:35 [narm]
narm has joined #webtv
14:06:57 [giuseppep]
14:08:17 [JanL]
JanL to scribe
14:08:22 [francois]
Scribe: JanL
14:08:33 [JanL]
start the open issues
14:08:56 [JanL]
question to jan on issue-16
14:08:58 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:08:58 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:09:08 [JanL]
waiting for response from author of issue-17
14:09:19 [JanL]
issue-17 ongoing discussions
14:09:24 [JanL]
in mailing list
14:09:30 [JanL]
so waiting for some conclusion
14:10:00 [JanL]
14:10:15 [JanL]
it will be moved to the new TF
14:10:17 [Zakim]
14:10:33 [francois]
ACTION: giuseppe to move ISSUE-18 to MPTF
14:10:33 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-40 - Move ISSUE-18 to MPTF [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2011-06-28].
14:10:36 [giuseppep]
14:10:36 [trackbot]
ISSUE-19 -- Media Identification -- raised
14:10:36 [trackbot]
14:10:42 [jcdufourd]
zakim, ??P0 is jcdufourd
14:10:42 [Zakim]
+jcdufourd; got it
14:11:29 [JanL]
use case to define a mechanism to identify a content
14:11:40 [JanL]
on a global level
14:12:04 [JanL]
this allows for different applications to identify the content universally
14:12:17 [francois]
i/issue-17/Topic: ISSUE-17 - Home Network Enabled User-Agent/
14:12:24 [JanL]
BBC wants to augement the content shown on the screen
14:12:33 [francois]
i/issue-18/Topic: ISSUE-18 - Video tag support of MPEG2-TS/
14:12:43 [JanL]
the application can query to know what content it being presented
14:12:51 [francois]
i/ISSUE-19?/Topic: ISSUE-19 - Media Identification/
14:12:57 [JanL]
there is an interest when a service from BBC is being presented
14:13:29 [JanL]
giuseppe says it is simply a URL
14:14:00 [JanL]
response is that there is a good support for carrying identifying with the content
14:14:14 [JanL]
clarke question asks how this information is carried
14:14:29 [JanL]
response broadcasters would carry the information
14:15:18 [JanL]
bob states that tracks carries metadata
14:15:37 [JanL]
cablelabs is working on a content identifier that could be used for a solution
14:15:55 [JanL]
this could be carried as metadata track to pass this information
14:16:17 [JanL]
response not familiar with this approach
14:16:17 [Clarke]
+q Clarke
14:16:53 [JanL]
additional question, this is a home networking services
14:17:05 [JanL]
so a device can query another device what content you are playing
14:17:19 [francois]
ack Clarke
14:17:23 [JanL]
response yes, a identifier can query after this identifier
14:18:00 [JanL]
clarke question is this pull or push based.
14:18:17 [JanL]
response the identifier is waiting for the identifier
14:18:37 [JanL]
giuseppe this is not a hw req but a way to retrieve the identifier
14:18:49 [JanL]
standardize a url that every application can understand
14:19:05 [Clarke]
+q Clarke
14:19:24 [JanL]
response yes, not an api is needed but simply a scheme
14:19:40 [francois]
ack Clarke
14:20:13 [JanL]
clarke again, different from a guide you would get the program event and not what you see in the epg
14:20:24 [JanL]
response clarify
14:20:45 [JanL]
clarke, one can query the based on the time and date after the information
14:21:04 [JanL]
response is yes
14:21:54 [JanL]
any questions
14:22:07 [JanL]
need to understand what needs to be standardize
14:22:39 [JanL]
basically need to identify the tecknolodgy and next to identify the syntax
14:23:16 [JanL]
another comment, earlier discussion how do we expose home network protocols to we bprotocols
14:23:21 [JanL]
to other services
14:23:40 [JanL]
this is categoried as new service set
14:24:22 [JanL]
upnp has mechanism to retrieve a service to query
14:24:29 [MattH]
14:24:40 [JanL]
it is a mechanism using upnp service to perform query
14:24:43 [MattH]
14:24:45 [jcdufourd]
s/need to understand what needs to be standardize/jcd:need to understand what needs to be standardized/
14:24:50 [francois]
[One requirement derived from this use case could perhaps be: any API function that takes content identifiers as arguments must accept URIs as content identifiers]
14:24:57 [JanL]
based on the requirements we can decide how to go in the next step
14:25:31 [JanL]
way forward to list what can be standardized and touch on it next time
14:25:32 [JanL]
14:25:37 [JanL]
next item is issue-20
14:25:39 [giuseppep]
14:25:39 [trackbot]
ISSUE-20 -- TV Querying and Control -- raised
14:25:39 [trackbot]
14:26:04 [francois]
i/ISSUE-20?/Topic: ISSUE-20 - TV Querying and Control/
14:26:06 [JanL]
what is use case about
14:26:42 [JanL]
use case is about implement appilcation and service desire to control integrated TV or STB and control own changing chanels and getting epg info
14:27:11 [JanL]
this is both a rendered and presenter like a TV with built in ...
14:27:35 [JanL]
similar with use cases from issue- serice user interface
14:28:00 [francois]
14:28:16 [francois]
14:28:19 [JanL]
overlap with issue-17 and 24
14:28:35 [JanL]
listing of how to request playback media
14:28:58 [JanL]
the tv can be controlled by a device
14:29:13 [JanL]
does this add something more
14:29:38 [JanL]
it adds controlling content from a device that does not render
14:29:50 [JanL]
or stream
14:30:07 [JanL]
pretty clear a service or device
14:30:19 [JanL]
what do u think
14:30:21 [Zakim]
14:30:28 [JanL]
can understand the logic
14:30:36 [JanL]
propose an amendment issue-4
14:30:44 [JanL]
rephrasing of issue-4
14:30:51 [JanL]
do not mind if things are consistent
14:31:12 [JanL]
issue-17 may list specific service that should be possible
14:31:24 [Zakim]
14:31:28 [JanL]
check issue-4 for clarification
14:31:35 [JanL]
then we can close the issue
14:31:40 [giuseppep]
14:31:42 [JanL]
any other coment
14:31:42 [francois]
14:31:44 [giuseppep]
14:31:45 [francois]
ack francois
14:32:09 [JanL]
perhaps this example is pretty easy understand issue-4
14:32:24 [JanL]
proposal is to just send a rephrasing of issue-4
14:32:30 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:32:30 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:32:32 [JanL]
people can repy and ammend it
14:32:47 [giuseppep]
14:32:47 [trackbot]
ISSUE-21 -- Time synchronisation -- raised
14:32:47 [trackbot]
14:32:53 [francois]
ACTION: Matt to check ISSUE-20 in relation with ISSUE-4 and propose re-phrasing if needed.
14:32:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-41 - Check ISSUE-20 in relation with ISSUE-4 and propose re-phrasing if needed. [on Matt Hammond - due 2011-06-28].
14:33:14 [JanL]
thsi is deinfing specific forms of appication
14:33:37 [francois]
i/ISSUE-21?/Topic: ISSUE-21: Time synchronisation/
14:33:39 [JanL]
the idea is the ability to determine a UA can determine the time point can be co-timed with another application
14:33:51 [francois]
s/thsi is deinfing/this is defining/
14:33:57 [francois]
14:34:09 [JanL]
fine with the use case
14:34:14 [JanL]
how this applies to other use case
14:34:23 [JanL]
can any mechansim toenable this type f use case
14:34:48 [JanL]
probably there can be an arch that can support this but in some cases it is not possible
14:34:55 [JanL]
which will add complications on the desing
14:35:12 [JanL]
do we have a widely used protocol or mechanism to enable this
14:35:41 [JanL]
based on discussions on mailing list that existing technolodgy to support this that can present live content
14:35:49 [JanL]
reference an integrated receiver
14:35:57 [JanL]
resolve this on the mailng list
14:36:10 [JanL]
oliveri and russel mentioned ieee synchronization
14:36:20 [JanL]
are those well established protocosl to support this
14:36:31 [francois]
14:36:33 [JanL]
"I am getting typing cramp"
14:36:42 [francois]
14:36:56 [JanL]
assignment of ntp
14:37:01 [JanL]
for precision
14:37:07 [igarashi]
14:37:14 [JanL]
probably other service protocols and use it
14:37:32 [JanL]
we could indeed count that there r technolodgy t support this
14:37:40 [JanL]
that would allow this interesting use case
14:37:59 [JanL]
support this scenario and this req to do something for synch
14:38:08 [JanL]
onto of ntp
14:38:16 [giuseppep]
zakim, ack
14:38:16 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'ack', giuseppep
14:38:26 [jcdufourd]
14:38:46 [JanL]
general cmt if we have device standard and some protocol needed between application
14:38:53 [francois]
ack igarashi
14:38:59 [JanL]
some disocvery protocol
14:39:29 [JanL]
discussion for the working group
14:39:36 [JanL]
requirement issue
14:39:53 [JanL]
if we discuss requirement we should specify the protocl to be used
14:40:08 [JanL]
in wg they will discuss further the protocol
14:40:12 [JanL]
we can mention the protocol
14:40:21 [JanL]
r there well established protocols
14:40:37 [JanL]
maybe do not need to specifiy it
14:40:51 [JanL]
requirement what shoudl be stnadardized
14:41:02 [JanL]
the wg continue on that detailed of sepcification based on req
14:41:10 [francois]
s/shoudl be stnadardized/should be standardized/
14:41:21 [JanL]
what is answer for this specification
14:41:25 [francois]
14:41:30 [JanL]
different ways to support this
14:42:01 [JanL]
in general we ensure the UA can ... the protocol can be standardized
14:42:26 [JanL]
seems if we are talking about we content to sync timing with content between web apps
14:42:31 [JanL]
14:42:38 [JanL]
we should support
14:42:41 [MattH]
14:42:57 [JanL]
if ua should support this then it is a different discussion
14:43:18 [JanL]
my question if theinteroperability do we need to specify a standard
14:43:33 [giuseppep]
14:43:37 [JanL]
the application needs to say what protocol to do time synchronization
14:43:52 [JanL]
that application support this
14:43:58 [JanL]
w3c standard
14:44:11 [JanL]
do not undersand that the standard the standar is required for interoperability
14:44:39 [JanL]
if we have a standard for a web content to communicate to invoke home network service the standard is req for applications to access the API
14:44:46 [JanL]
the API does ot need to know the time sync
14:46:09 [francois]
JanL: the last comment was interesting. Is it the UI of the Web Application? In the realm of Web application, it touches upon ISSUE-24. Can we do that between Web application that could resolve timing constraints?
14:46:33 [JanL]
just exchange information
14:46:41 [JanL]
just talking about applications
14:46:57 [JanL]
the question if it is just exchanging information
14:47:44 [giuseppep]
14:48:05 [jcdufourd]
ack JanL
14:48:09 [igarashi]
14:48:16 [JanL]
the intentio of the use case was applicaton to sync with non applications
14:48:23 [JanL]
like media player
14:48:39 [JanL]
this may look like a application issue
14:48:59 [jcdufourd]
14:49:13 [JanL]
in terms of req we should specify req the use case of application
14:49:16 [jcdufourd]
ack MattH
14:49:25 [jcdufourd]
ack igarashi
14:49:32 [francois]
q+ to mention Web RTC group
14:49:33 [JanL]
generic framework can without an applciaton framework this use case cannot be achieved
14:49:36 [JanL]
what is req
14:49:36 [giuseppep]
14:50:02 [francois]
14:50:08 [JanL]
have doubt that sync will need something specific different from what we have
14:50:09 [francois]
14:50:22 [JanL]
an idea is some message sync delivered async
14:50:26 [JanL]
14:50:34 [JanL]
this should be seperate
14:50:47 [francois]
14:50:55 [francois]
ack jcdufourd
14:50:58 [JanL]
implement seperate from teh rest
14:51:05 [JanL]
2 req
14:51:16 [JanL]
if protocol that we use sync protocol
14:51:44 [giuseppep]
14:52:03 [JanL]
we define a message application exchange
14:52:37 [JanL]
part of objective is to expose to web content
14:52:54 [JanL]
upnp or bonjour are as they are
14:53:07 [JanL]
not supported in soap
14:53:11 [Clarke]
14:53:22 [JanL]
it would affect the underlying the protocol
14:53:39 [JanL]
no it shoudl not affect
14:54:51 [JanL]
when we want 2 web applications to exchange messages
14:54:52 [MattH]
14:54:58 [Clarke]
14:55:06 [JanL]
this could be a hw req
14:55:18 [JanL]
this could be an almost realtime comm
14:55:18 [jcdufourd]
I suspect that this sync requirement will need some specific implementation, different from e.g. sending a simple async message. There could be a need for synchronous message, or extra-fast message, or message to another browser rather than to another webapplication... Hence my opinion we should keep the use case
14:55:20 [giuseppep]
14:55:21 [francois]
ack francois
14:55:23 [Zakim]
francois, you wanted to mention Web RTC group
14:55:54 [JanL]
enable applications to exchange video and datagram
14:56:07 [JanL]
address some of these issues
14:56:46 [JanL]
talking about real time protocol once this work is done to see if this is addressed in another wg
14:57:16 [JanL]
precisely in whatwg and rtc charter list of gropu need to liaison with 2nd screen scenario
14:57:28 [JanL]
it would be good idea to check with web rtc group
14:57:34 [francois]
zakim, mute me
14:57:34 [Zakim]
francois should now be muted
14:57:41 [MattH]
14:57:41 [JanL]
we can the issue what can be standardized
14:57:49 [MattH]
14:58:02 [JanL]
if underlying platform supports time sync
14:58:16 [JanL]
expose this thing if the protocol underlying suports it
14:58:29 [giuseppep]
14:58:42 [giuseppep]
14:59:30 [kaz-orlando]
ack JanL
14:59:37 [JanL]
how do we move forward
14:59:51 [JanL]
can I propose that we do the usual strategy that we come back next time
15:00:04 [JanL]
yes, this is a good way forward
15:00:11 [Zakim]
15:00:12 [JanL]
same question on issue-22
15:00:25 [JanL]
discuss in mailing list 21 and 22
15:00:52 [JanL]
we reached issue-22, the next one is 23
15:00:56 [Zakim]
15:01:16 [JanL]
we can start on issue-23 next week
15:01:34 [JanL]
propose to close call
15:01:39 [JanL]
start from issue-23
15:01:56 [JanL]
I will be away the next 4 weeks
15:02:02 [JanL]
frans will moderate
15:02:24 [francois]
s/frans/francois and Kaz/
15:02:30 [Zakim]
15:02:31 [Zakim]
15:02:32 [Zakim]
15:02:36 [francois]
ack me
15:02:39 [Zakim]
15:02:47 [Zakim]
15:03:53 [Zakim]
15:05:20 [Zakim]
15:05:25 [Zakim]
15:05:28 [Zakim]
15:05:32 [Zakim]
15:05:34 [Zakim]
UW_WebTVIG(Home Net)10:00AM has ended
15:05:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were Nilo_Mitra, francois, Giuseppe?, Clarke?, +44.161.848.aaaa, Jan_Lindquist, MattH, DongHyun_Kang, aizu, +1.503.705.aabb, Bob_Lund, +, Igarashi, Narm,
15:05:40 [Zakim]
... jcdufourd
15:06:09 [kaz-orlando]
zakim, who is here?
15:06:09 [Zakim]
apparently UW_WebTVIG(Home Net)10:00AM has ended, kaz-orlando
15:06:10 [Zakim]
On IRC I see narm, donghyun_kang, NiloMitra, JanL, kaz-orlando, Zakim, RRSAgent, igarashi, giuseppep, francois, trackbot
15:06:53 [francois]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:06:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate francois
15:08:54 [igarashi]
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