IRC log of webfonts on 2011-06-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:49 [RRSAgent]

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13:59:49 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-webfonts-irc

13:59:50 [sergeym]

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13:59:51 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

13:59:51 [Zakim]

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13:59:53 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 3668

13:59:53 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

13:59:54 [trackbot]

Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference

13:59:54 [trackbot]

Date: 15 June 2011

14:00:09 [ChrisL]

Chair: Vlad

14:00:16 [ChrisL]

ScribeNick: ChrisL

14:00:45 [ChrisL]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2011Jun/0019.html

14:01:24 [Vlad]

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14:01:35 [jdaggett]

hmm, zakim is not happy?

14:01:58 [ChrisL]

why is zakim not happy?

14:02:10 [erik]

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14:02:11 [jdaggett]

not seeing those on the phone...

14:02:31 [Vlad]

trackbot, start telcon

14:02:33 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

14:02:35 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 3668

14:02:35 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()10:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago

14:02:36 [trackbot]

Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference

14:02:36 [trackbot]

Date: 15 June 2011

14:02:51 [ChrisL]

zakim, list attendees

14:02:51 [Zakim]

sorry, ChrisL, I don't know what conference this is

14:02:57 [ChrisL]

zakim, this is font

14:02:57 [Zakim]

ok, ChrisL; that matches IA_Fonts()10:00AM

14:03:00 [ChrisL]

zakim, list attendees

14:03:00 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been +1.978.790.aaaa, +44.845.397.aabb, +31.61.509.aacc, +1.425.882.aadd, ChrisL, +1.510.816.aaee

14:03:07 [Zakim]

+ +1.443.895.aaff

14:03:21 [tal]

tal has joined #webfonts

14:03:30 [cslye]

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14:03:36 [ChrisL]

zakim appears to not recognise anyones phone numbers today

14:03:44 [ChrisL]

zakim, who is here?

14:03:44 [Zakim]

On the phone I see +1.978.790.aaaa, +44.845.397.aabb, +31.61.509.aacc, ??P20, +1.425.882.aadd, ChrisL, +1.510.816.aaee, +1.443.895.aaff

14:03:47 [Zakim]

On IRC I see cslye, tal, erik, Vlad, Zakim, sergeym, RRSAgent, ChrisL, jfkthame, jdaggett, trackbot

14:04:07 [jdaggett]

zakim, P20 is me

14:04:07 [Zakim]

sorry, jdaggett, I do not recognize a party named 'P20'

14:04:18 [jdaggett]

zakim, ??P20 is me

14:04:18 [Zakim]

+jdaggett; got it

14:04:27 [ChrisL]

Present: Tal, Vlad, Erik, Christopher, Sergey, Chris, Jonathan, JDaggett

14:04:44 [cslye]

zakim, aaee is me

14:04:44 [Zakim]

+cslye; got it

14:04:50 [ChrisL]

Vlad: lets review the resent edits. also, hear from CSS WG attendees on CSS3 fonts

14:04:53 [tal]

zakim, aaff is me

14:04:53 [Zakim]

+tal; got it

14:05:04 [jdaggett]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Jun/0329.html

14:05:12 [jfkthame]

zakim, aabb is me

14:05:12 [Zakim]

sorry, jfkthame, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'

14:05:26 [jfkthame]

zakim, +44.845.397.aabb is me

14:05:26 [Zakim]

sorry, jfkthame, I do not recognize a party named '+44.845.397.aabb'

14:05:43 [ChrisL]

jdaggett: here are the minutes. lots of tangential discussion, Bert complained its http-centric and so on

14:06:21 [ChrisL]

... at least the method of restriction is http-centric. but really that is an issue with ftp etc not with our spec

14:06:31 [ChrisL]

... all the implementors seem ok with it already

14:06:51 [ChrisL]

... not clear if SOR at risk is enouh to move forward

14:07:13 [ChrisL]

... peter Linss suggested it was not CSS WG problem but WebFonts WG problem

14:07:24 [ChrisL]

... but it elongs where @font-face is defined

14:07:55 [ChrisL]

Vlad: it started here but was proposed to apply to all font formats

14:08:08 [ChrisL]

... read the minute sand there was no clear decision

14:08:19 [ChrisL]

jdaggett: problem was tangential discussions

14:08:43 [ChrisL]

... Bert did not propose a credible alternative and it did not seem relevant

14:08:55 [ChrisL]

.. implementors agree some form of SOR is a good thing

14:09:43 [ChrisL]

Vlad: discussed this with him at AC meeting and Bert agreed at the time

14:10:09 [ChrisL]

... and agreed fonts not reallyy like images, in the minutes

14:10:24 [ChrisL]

Topic: CSS WG report on @font-face

14:10:36 [ChrisL]

jdaggett: its a big rathole

14:11:26 [ChrisL]

... Bet always seems to say EOT is better and so on

14:11:33 [ChrisL]

s/Bet/Bert/

14:11:44 [ChrisL]

Vlad: any specific objections?

14:12:10 [ChrisL]

jdaggett: no, just diffuse discussion. Florian from Opera said current wording was acceptable

14:12:21 [ChrisL]

... depends if wording is good enough for CR

14:12:51 [ChrisL]

Vlad: clear its better to SOR based on the font link in @font-face

14:13:30 [ChrisL]

jdaggett: Peter's point was tha CSS WG should not decide but its part of te @font-face mechanism. He wanted someone else to solve it somewhere

14:14:02 [ChrisL]

... if that mechansm happens to cover things other than fonts then good but we dont have consensus on that

14:14:55 [ChrisL]

jdaggett: any way we can pre-flight the wording?

14:15:02 [ChrisL]

ChrisL: will ask PLH

14:15:53 [ChrisL]

Vlad: note the concern that this could delay CSS3 Fonts

14:16:16 [ChrisL]

... can we facilitate that decision?

14:16:48 [ChrisL]

ChrisL: we can send a liaison saying we want to depend on that feature

14:17:05 [ChrisL]

jdaggett: we don't really have any strong objections at this point

14:17:30 [ChrisL]

Vlad: what is Google's position, do we know?

14:17:52 [ChrisL]

jdaggett: Tab was involved but not at this meeting. Unclear

14:18:09 [ChrisL]

Vlad: Tab said it was easy to implement in webkit

14:18:25 [ChrisL]

jdaggett: needs negotiation between webkit committors

14:18:54 [ChrisL]

Vlad: Apple objection seems to be resolved

14:19:25 [ChrisL]

jdaggett: FF and IE implemented as CSS3 Fonts says

14:20:25 [ChrisL]

action: Vlad to send a liaison to CSS saying that we have a consensus that this feature is best in CSS3 Fonts module and want to see t accepted there so we can reference it

14:20:25 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-93 - Send a liaison to CSS saying that we have a consensus that this feature is best in CSS3 Fonts module and want to see t accepted there so we can reference it [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2011-06-22].

14:20:49 [ChrisL]

Vlad: consesnus of font vendors and impleentors

14:20:55 [ChrisL]

jdaggett; sounds reasonable

14:21:03 [ChrisL]

Topic: WOFF edits

14:21:51 [ChrisL]

jfkthame: set some actions pending

14:21:52 [ChrisL]

http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/pendingreview

14:23:12 [ChrisL]

jfkthame: removed summary of conformance requirements and relocated otes as discussed

14:23:19 [ChrisL]

s/otes/notes/

14:23:48 [ChrisL]

ChrisL: reminded commmentors this was done

14:24:10 [ChrisL]

Relocate text describing div and span was done, too

14:24:20 [ChrisL]

Move BCP47 to normative and change are expected to to SHOULD

14:24:49 [ChrisL]

jfkthame: became a normative reference and language updated

14:25:08 [ChrisL]

Add expected children of all metadata elements

14:25:30 [ChrisL]

jfkthame: had a go at that, not clrear how much detail to go into.

14:26:42 [ChrisL]

ChrisL: text element is missing the same form of description as the rest

14:26:53 [ChrisL]

jfkthame: seems easy

14:27:06 [ChrisL]

action jfkthame to add text element descrition

14:27:06 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-94 - Add text element descrition [on Jonathan Kew - due 2011-06-22].

14:29:14 [ChrisL]

ChrisL: we missed impleenting the comment from Eric Muller, to add @url to text inside license

14:29:26 [ChrisL]

http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF/DoC/issues-lc-2010.html#issue-8

14:29:54 [ChrisL]

Vlad: legl folks font like a license that is different in different languages as the least restrictive one becomes the agreement

14:30:31 [ChrisL]

ChrisL:... so we decided not to add the per language links?

14:31:09 [ChrisL]

Vlad: one link points to a page which can be a landing page with further links to multiple languages. its up to the font vendor to do that

14:31:39 [ChrisL]

cslye: what Vlad describes is how Adobe would do it too

14:31:45 [ChrisL]

... so that is fine for me

14:31:50 [ChrisL]

rrsagent, here

14:31:50 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-webfonts-irc#T14-31-50

14:32:16 [ChrisL]

cslye: would not watnt to limit what other people expect t be there

14:32:34 [ChrisL]

Vlad: its a license description not a full license. it says how to get it

14:32:39 [ChrisL]

cslye: ok

14:33:19 [ChrisL]

ChrisL; ok so the spec is good as it stands ad I will update the DoC

14:33:55 [ChrisL]

jfkthame: another minor edit was to requie xml to be utf-8 as discssed on the list

14:34:02 [ChrisL]

... makes life simpler

14:34:18 [ChrisL]

ChrisL: seemed to be broad agreement on that

14:34:50 [ChrisL]

ChrisL: need to mark up the testable assertion and add a test for it

14:35:44 [ChrisL]

tal: there is an existing test for utf-8 or utf-16 so that is easy to change

14:36:09 [ChrisL]

action: tal to modify the test for xml encoding

14:36:10 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-95 - Modify the test for xml encoding [on Tal Leming - due 2011-06-22].

14:36:32 [ChrisL]

http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF/DoC/issues-lc-2010.html#issue-16

14:37:24 [ChrisL]

jfkthame: yes we alked about that

14:37:52 [ChrisL]

action jfkthame to add the non-normative wording from richard ishida about droppingOT tables

14:37:52 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-96 - Add the non-normative wording from richard ishida about droppingOT tables [on Jonathan Kew - due 2011-06-22].

14:38:40 [ChrisL]

http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF/DoC/issues-lc-2010.html#issue-31

14:39:56 [ChrisL]

Note:

14:39:56 [ChrisL]

The id attribute of the uniqueid element, and of several further metadata elements defined below, is not of type ID. Its form is

14:39:56 [ChrisL]

at the discretion of the font creator or vendor.

14:40:21 [ChrisL]

Action: jfkthame: to add the resised wording on @id

14:40:21 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-97 - Add the resised wording on @id [on Jonathan Kew - due 2011-06-22].

14:42:26 [jdaggett]

zakim, who is noisy?

14:42:40 [Zakim]

jdaggett, listening for 12 seconds I could not identify any sounds

14:44:10 [ChrisL]

Vlad: so its fixing bgs n how text shows up

14:44:21 [ChrisL]

jfkthame: same for filenames. there is a limit

14:44:33 [ChrisL]

ChrisL: (describes 3 options)

14:45:10 [ChrisL]

jfkthame: there are unicode controls for directionality that could be used if needed

14:45:20 [ChrisL]

Vlad: fine with the third option

14:46:01 [ChrisL]

jfkthame: option 2 would be much more complex. just not worth it

14:46:59 [ChrisL]

action: ChrisL to propose the third option

14:46:59 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-98 - Propose the third option [on Chris Lilley - due 2011-06-22].

14:47:39 [ChrisL]

ChrisL:aparet from the above the edits are all good

14:50:08 [ChrisL]

Topic: referencing html5

14:51:49 [Zakim]

-ChrisL

14:52:04 [jdaggett]

yup

14:52:13 [jdaggett]

ChrisL: we lost you...

14:52:20 [Vlad]

Chris, we lost you on the phone

14:52:23 [Zakim]

+ChrisL

14:53:36 [ChrisL]

(scribe got disconnected)

14:53:47 [ChrisL]

Action: ChrisL to respond to Glenn

14:53:47 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-99 - Respond to Glenn [on Chris Lilley - due 2011-06-22].

14:54:22 [ChrisL]

Topic: f2f

14:54:34 [ChrisL]

tal: f2f to discuss test suite?

14:54:46 [ChrisL]

Vlad: low response to typecon suggstion

14:55:18 [ChrisL]

... what about atypi in september? or tpac in november

14:55:42 [jdaggett]

atypi is in iceland?

14:55:49 [ChrisL]

cslye: will be at atypi

14:56:04 [ChrisL]

sergeym: not sure but more likely if we have a f2f

14:56:08 [ChrisL]

tal: sure

14:56:17 [ChrisL]

Vlad: will be and definitely if f2f

14:56:25 [ChrisL]

ChrisL: could be there

14:57:05 [ChrisL]

jdaggett: regrets during september

14:57:38 [ChrisL]

14-18 Sept, Rekjavik Iceland

14:57:48 [cslye]

http://www.atypi.org/2011-reykjavik

14:57:50 [ChrisL]

12-12 are tutorials

14:58:29 [ChrisL]

adjourned

14:58:33 [Zakim]

-jdaggett

14:58:38 [ChrisL]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:58:38 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-webfonts-minutes.html ChrisL

14:58:50 [Zakim]

-cslye

14:58:52 [Zakim]

-ChrisL

14:58:54 [Zakim]

-tal

14:58:56 [Zakim]

- +1.425.882.aadd

14:58:56 [cslye]

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14:58:58 [Zakim]

- +1.978.790.aaaa

14:59:00 [Zakim]

- +31.61.509.aacc

14:59:10 [Zakim]

- +44.845.397.aabb

14:59:12 [Zakim]

IA_Fonts()10:00AM has ended

14:59:16 [Zakim]

Attendees were +1.978.790.aaaa, +44.845.397.aabb, +31.61.509.aacc, +1.425.882.aadd, ChrisL, +1.510.816.aaee, +1.443.895.aaff, jdaggett, cslye, tal

15:23:22 [erik]

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15:23:34 [erik]

erik has left #webfonts

15:33:51 [jdaggett_]

jdaggett_ has joined #webfonts

15:59:04 [ChrisL]

zakim, bye

15:59:04 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #webfonts

15:59:12 [ChrisL]

rrsagent, bye

15:59:12 [RRSAgent]

I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-webfonts-actions.rdf :

15:59:12 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Vlad to send a liaison to CSS saying that we have a consensus that this feature is best in CSS3 Fonts module and want to see t accepted there so we can reference it [1]

15:59:12 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-webfonts-irc#T14-20-25

15:59:12 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: tal to modify the test for xml encoding [2]

15:59:12 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-webfonts-irc#T14-36-09

15:59:12 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: jfkthame: to add the resised wording on @id [3]

15:59:12 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-webfonts-irc#T14-40-21

15:59:12 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ChrisL to propose the third option [4]

15:59:12 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-webfonts-irc#T14-46-59

15:59:12 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: ChrisL to respond to Glenn [5]

15:59:12 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/15-webfonts-irc#T14-53-47