IRC log of svg on 2011-06-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:00:04 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-irc
20:00:06 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:00:06 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
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Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
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ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:00PM already started
20:00:09 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:00:09 [trackbot]
Date: 09 June 2011
20:00:09 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.675.aaaa
20:00:34 [Zakim]
+??P5
20:00:37 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P5 is me
20:00:37 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
20:01:03 [Zakim]
+Doug_Schepers
20:02:39 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/News/2011#entry-9122
20:03:30 [ChrisL]
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+ChrisL
20:08:13 [heycam]
Chair: Cameron
20:08:15 [heycam]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011AprJun/0137.html
20:08:34 [heycam]
ScribeNick: cabanier
20:10:37 [heycam]
CM: let's get started
20:10:37 [cabanier]
topic: SVG 1.1 Second Edition
20:10:37 [cabanier]
DS: did you catch the out of date recommendation?
20:10:49 [heycam]
s/recommendation/reference/
20:10:57 [cabanier]
CL: I did not. didn't think it was prudent to change
20:11:12 [cabanier]
CL: can you still change?
20:11:20 [cabanier]
DS: yes you can
20:11:35 [ChrisL]
can change in response to ac review comments
20:13:15 [heycam]
CM: I saw philippe mentioned our CSS2.0 reference, did you explain that to him?
20:13:16 [heycam]
CL: yes
20:14:24 [cabanier]
CM: there are 4 weeks to comment and then will become recommended
20:15:20 [cabanier]
there weren't too many people commenting. There is a culture where if people don't comment, they imply yes
20:15:34 [cabanier]
don't panic if there are no comments but it would be better if people do
20:16:01 [cabanier]
(that was doug schepers)
20:16:14 [cabanier]
topic: Seattle F2F form
20:17:33 [cabanier]
CM: form is supposed to be done at the end of the mont
20:17:52 [cabanier]
CM: send a reminder to get topics for the venue
20:18:23 [cabanier]
CM: one of the agenda items is the FX topics but we will wait until Vincent calls in
20:18:38 [cabanier]
topic: CSS WG testing
20:18:40 [heycam]
http://www.w3.org/mid/4DDA7888.6030707@w3.org
20:20:07 [shepazu]
public-test-infra@w3.org
20:20:43 [cabanier]
DS: in the testing taskforce there is a consensus to use the stuff that Peter Linss has done for CSS
20:21:23 [cabanier]
DS: he wrote a framework to aggregate the tests
20:22:19 [cabanier]
the framework allows to run a subset of the tests. when running test you can run all tests or just a couple
20:23:15 [cabanier]
DS: I want him to come talk to us because we feel strongly to have unified testing
20:23:28 [cabanier]
CM: should one of us call in?
20:23:41 [cabanier]
DS: I'll follow up with him
20:25:18 [cabanier]
DS: he responded off-list that he wanted more information
20:26:22 [cabanier]
action: shepazu to follow up with Peter Linss about testing
20:27:27 [cabanier]
topic: Text layout
20:28:15 [cabanier]
ds: we have to wait for Vincent to be here
20:28:37 [cabanier]
CM: I made a recent proposal for positioning
20:28:58 [cabanier]
CM: I didn't read Rik's email reply yet
20:29:11 [heycam]
RC: it seems that svg is trying to do two things at once
20:29:21 [heycam]
... it's doing layout for you, but also wants to provide you with the ability to position glyphs yourself
20:29:26 [heycam]
... it's a little bit the same thing with ligatures
20:29:38 [heycam]
... it'll create ligatures for you, but then also wants to give you the ability with positioning not to create ligatures
20:29:42 [heycam]
... so it seems a bit messy
20:29:56 [heycam]
... I propose that maybe we should have a new type of text, more like pdf, specifying individual glyphs taht you want to use
20:29:59 [heycam]
... so you can choose the ligatures
20:30:04 [heycam]
... and you always specify glyph positions
20:30:14 [heycam]
... and the existing <text> will be automatically laid out text
20:30:17 [ChrisL]
sounds like a glyphlist rather than text - so would need an 'alt' for accessibility
20:30:20 [heycam]
... and it can create ligatures on the fly for you
20:30:37 [heycam]
... so people who want a simple interface can still have that, but people like us, who want more control over glyph selection and positioning can have that as well
20:31:48 [shepazu]
q+
20:32:17 [heycam]
CM: we may need to have glyph positioning
20:32:20 [ChrisL]
the interaction between altglyph and opentype layout tables is underspecified
20:32:21 [heycam]
s/positioning/indexing/
20:32:47 [heycam]
CM: but we do have <altGlyph> and <glyphDef>
20:33:26 [cabanier]
DS: do we have properties to control if ligatures are formed?
20:33:37 [ChrisL]
CSS3 has a way to disable discretionary ligatures
20:33:52 [cabanier]
CM: true
20:34:15 [cabanier]
CM: but, I don't think that turns of mandatory ones
20:34:18 [cabanier]
DS: ok
20:34:50 [cabanier]
CM: I'm not completely well versed in the area.
20:34:57 [cabanier]
DS: seems like a pain
20:35:21 [cabanier]
CL: I understand that the idea behind the 2 modes
20:36:09 [cabanier]
CM: do we want 'abc' or indexes into the font file
20:36:16 [cabanier]
CL: not sure
20:37:00 [cabanier]
RC: going the PDF way might be very difficult
20:37:14 [cabanier]
CM: not if just using glyph ids
20:37:18 [cabanier]
RC: true
20:37:58 [cabanier]
CM: SVG is not ideal for absolute position but there is a need for positioning on character based input.
20:38:12 [cabanier]
CM: Rik do you have an opinion
20:38:32 [cabanier]
RC: I was looking at it from absolute positioning
20:39:04 [cabanier]
CM: we need to keep allowing positioning in the current SVG text
20:39:30 [cabanier]
CM: and make it as accessible as possible
20:40:01 [cabanier]
CL: one of the reasons that was added was for adding more complicated text on a path
20:40:26 [cabanier]
RC: and every glyph could have its own matrix
20:40:37 [cabanier]
CM: yes by specifiying a rotation
20:41:00 [cabanier]
CM: maybe we should present this at the face-to-face
20:41:21 [cabanier]
CM: I need to implement it anyway and I will start off with my proposal
20:41:33 [cabanier]
CM: I will give more detail at the F2F
20:42:28 [cabanier]
CM: for the use case of absolute positioning, we should try to support better and someone should start on a proposal
20:42:57 [cabanier]
CM: rik, do you want to take this on?
20:43:22 [cabanier]
RC: I will discuss with Vincent but Adobe's interested.
20:43:38 [cabanier]
CM: using glyph indices is probably a good way
20:44:07 [cabanier]
RC: using glyph indices requires you have the font
20:44:23 [cabanier]
CM: I think that is reasonable.
20:44:51 [cabanier]
CM: that the font is always there when you do absolute positioning
20:47:02 [cabanier]
topic: FX taskforce
20:48:10 [cabanier]
DS: want to discuss the CSS and SVG charters
20:48:24 [cabanier]
CM: should we wait for vincent
20:48:50 [cabanier]
DS: we'll talk about it via email
20:49:08 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
20:49:09 [Zakim]
-Doug_Schepers
20:49:31 [cabanier]
RRSAgent make minutes
20:49:45 [cabanier]
RSSAgent, make minutes
20:50:00 [cabanier]
RRSAgent, make minutes
20:50:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-minutes.html cabanier
20:50:57 [heycam]
http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-svg-minutes.html,text
20:51:56 [Zakim]
-heycam
20:52:31 [Zakim]
- +1.206.675.aaaa
20:52:32 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:00PM has ended
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Attendees were +1.206.675.aaaa, heycam, Doug_Schepers, ChrisL