IRC log of rdfa on 2011-06-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:18 [RRSAgent]

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13:59:18 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/09-rdfa-irc

13:59:20 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

13:59:20 [Zakim]

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13:59:22 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 7332

13:59:22 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

13:59:23 [trackbot]

Meeting: RDF Web Applications Working Group Teleconference

13:59:23 [trackbot]

Date: 09 June 2011

14:00:22 [MacTed]

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14:00:29 [Zakim]

SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

14:00:30 [Zakim]

+ +44.123.456.aaaa

14:00:32 [Zakim]

+ +1.612.217.aabb

14:00:36 [Zakim]

- +1.612.217.aabb

14:00:38 [Zakim]

+ +1.612.217.aabb

14:00:39 [Benjamin]

zakim, I am aaaa

14:00:39 [Zakim]

+Benjamin; got it

14:00:40 [ShaneM]

zakim, aabb is ShaneM

14:00:40 [Zakim]

+ShaneM; got it

14:00:59 [Zakim]

+ +1.781.273.aacc

14:01:03 [MacTed]

Zakim, code?

14:01:03 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), MacTed

14:01:06 [Zakim]

+??P17

14:01:12 [manu]

zakim, I am ??P17

14:01:12 [Zakim]

+manu; got it

14:01:21 [MacTed]

Zakim, aacc is OpenLink_Software

14:01:21 [Zakim]

+OpenLink_Software; got it

14:01:25 [MacTed]

Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

14:01:25 [Zakim]

+MacTed; got it

14:01:27 [MacTed]

Zakim, mute me

14:01:27 [Zakim]

MacTed should now be muted

14:01:40 [manu]

zakim, who is on the call?

14:01:40 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Benjamin, ShaneM, MacTed (muted), manu

14:02:15 [manu]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jun/0010.html

14:02:25 [manu]

Chair: manu

14:02:28 [manu]

Scribe: Benjamin

14:02:34 [manu]

scribenick: Benjamin

14:06:21 [manu]

Regrets: Ivan

14:06:30 [Steven]

zakim, dial steven-617

14:06:30 [Zakim]

ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:06:32 [Zakim]

+Steven

14:06:34 [Benjamin]

Topic: schema.org announcement findings/effects

14:06:44 [Steven]

Sorry for being late

14:06:50 [MacTed]

Zakim, unmute me

14:06:50 [Zakim]

MacTed should no longer be muted

14:07:14 [Benjamin]

manu: anything new about schema.org?

14:07:14 [manu]

http://schema.org/

14:08:06 [manu]

http://schema.org/docs/schemas.html

14:08:10 [Benjamin]

manu: google microsoft and yahoo have launched schema.org. It is a combination of syntax describtion (microdata) and vocabularies search engines would be interested in.

14:09:22 [Benjamin]

manu: they intend to create a shared markup and data vocabulary and make publishers easy to decide whhich vocabulary to use. They thing mircodata is the best balance

14:10:08 [Benjamin]

manu: people were asking, why is Googling forcing this choice of use of vocabulary and markup.

14:10:51 [Benjamin]

... Google sais to provide legacy support for RDFa, but for latest features Microdata is necessary

14:11:14 [Benjamin]

Steven: Other WorkingGroups and even TimBl is obset about this.

14:11:55 [ShaneM]

q+ to be devils advocate

14:12:19 [manu]

ack ShaneM

14:12:22 [Zakim]

ShaneM, you wanted to be devils advocate

14:12:30 [Benjamin]

ShaneM: There is a lot of vobabulary that already exists. If they map schema.org to it, that's fine

14:13:25 [manu]

q+ to elaborate

14:14:25 [Benjamin]

Shane: Google should use foaf for example.

14:15:46 [Benjamin]

manu: Three search engines agree on supporting a single vocabulary in a specific markup. This is a great use case for them.

14:16:05 [ShaneM]

q+ I forgot be be devils advocate

14:16:14 [ShaneM]

q+ to say I forgot to be devils advocate

14:17:02 [Benjamin]

manu: RDFa content besides microdata is not valid, hence this anouncement will affect that RDFa providers such as Drupal will exchange markup generation form RDFa to microdata.

14:19:26 [manu]

ack manu

14:19:26 [Zakim]

manu, you wanted to elaborate

14:19:30 [manu]

ack shaneM

14:19:30 [Zakim]

ShaneM, you wanted to say I forgot to be devils advocate

14:19:31 [MacTed]

q+

14:20:53 [Benjamin]

Shane: Is this anouncement really a bad thing for the Semantic Web? Wouldn't it not be better to support the Microdata Community in handling semantic data.

14:21:23 [manu]

ack MacTed

14:21:41 [manu]

(Notes that that is Shane's Devil's advocate position)

14:22:19 [manu]

q+ to disagree about Drupal case

14:23:51 [manu]

Ted: There are going to be many plugins that are going to support Microdata because of this - that's fine, it's not entirely a bad thing - but they're shooting themselves in the foot wrt the bigger picture.

14:23:55 [manu]

ack manu

14:23:55 [Zakim]

manu, you wanted to disagree about Drupal case

14:25:01 [Benjamin]

manu: Drupal has to be responsive, so they will exchange RDFa with microdata

14:26:42 [Benjamin]

ted: When the google bot hits your side, it identifies himself, so that the server can provide the data in a form the bot wants to see.

14:28:05 [Benjamin]

manu: we should conclude that schema.org really affects us so that we should not ignore it.

14:30:28 [Benjamin]

manu: schema.org sais a couple of things like: You can't use RDFa and Microdata on the same page. They commented it as mistake.

14:30:35 [Benjamin]

manu: so here we are fine

14:31:19 [Benjamin]

manu: Second: Why don't Search Engines just RDFa on schema.org. because the technology is already there.

14:31:35 [manu]

http://schema.rdfs.org/

14:31:48 [Benjamin]

... hence, we could provide examples in RDFa and microdata.

14:32:25 [Benjamin]

... Michael hausenblas, Richard Cyganiak and folks from DERI already created a mapping from rdfs.org to schema.org

14:32:48 [Benjamin]

... so we can map it similar on e.g., rdfa.org

15:02:35 [Benjamin]

manu: we put the candidate rec on hold for now and try Google to support RDFa 1.1

15:02:52 [Zakim]

-ShaneM

15:02:54 [Zakim]

-manu

15:02:55 [Zakim]

-Steven

15:02:57 [Zakim]

-MacTed

15:02:58 [Zakim]

-Benjamin

15:02:58 [Zakim]

SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended

15:03:00 [Zakim]

Attendees were +44.123.456.aaaa, +1.612.217.aabb, Benjamin, ShaneM, +1.781.273.aacc, manu, MacTed, Steven

15:48:59 [danbri]

in an rdfa profile, could a local term map to *two* URIs?

15:49:10 [danbri]

eg. 'member' could expand to both foaf:member AND mo:member triples?

15:49:42 [danbri]

(or is that putting too much smarts into the profile layer...? could just use rdfs/owl for that stuff)

15:58:48 [manu]

too much smarts in profile layer would be required to do that

15:58:56 [manu]

we're trying to keep this stuff as simple as we can.

16:01:40 [danbri]

what about datatypes?

16:02:13 [danbri]

writing <div> ... I am <span property="age" datatype="xsd:integer">39</span> ...</div> is pretty awful

16:02:35 [danbri]

(which is why i don't set a formal range on foaf:age yet; we just use strings and document in prose that it's a number

16:02:44 [danbri]

if the profile could add in the datatyping, that would be sweet

16:40:10 [ShaneM]

thats actually really clever.

16:40:27 [ShaneM]

if there were a way to do it. it would SOLVE the URI as content thing too.

16:41:09 [ShaneM]

just define in the profile that there is a default datatype for values associated with a declared term?

16:41:19 [ShaneM]

(overridable with @datatype of course)

16:43:12 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #rdfa

18:52:39 [manu]

danbri, ShaneM: This is exactly what we do in JSON-LD, by the way: http://json-ld.org/spec/ED/20110507/#type-coercion

18:52:50 [manu]

We call it Type Coercion

20:20:13 [danbri]

yep, type coercion seems much same

20:20:34 [danbri]

do the rdfa1.1 parsers out there (ivans?) handle profile?

20:21:14 [danbri]

btw found this nice ancient doc - http://www.w3.org/Architecture/NOTE-link.html