15:00:49 RRSAgent has joined #webevents 15:00:49 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webevents-irc 15:00:56 RRSAgent, make log public 15:01:08 ScribeNick: ArtB 15:01:09 Scribe: Art 15:01:09 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/0115.html 15:01:09 Date: 7 June 2011 15:01:09 Chair: Art 15:01:09 Meeting: Web Events WG Voice Conference 15:01:46 + +1.781.993.aabb 15:01:51 aabb is Art_Barstow 15:01:51 + +1.206.792.aacc 15:02:02 aacc is Matt_Brubeck 15:02:29 +Doug_Schepers 15:02:33 Zakim, who is here? 15:02:33 On the phone I see ??P19, +1.781.534.aaaa, +1.781.993.aabb, +1.206.792.aacc, Doug_Schepers 15:02:35 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, ArtB, sangwhan, smaug, shepazu, mbrubeck, lgombos, trackbot 15:02:41 Present: Art_Barstow, Matt_Brubeck, Cathy_Chan, Laszlo_Gombos, Doug_Schepers 15:02:47 I'll re-call 15:02:51 -??P19 15:02:53 Present+ Olli_Pettay 15:03:12 Zakim, nick mbrubeck is Matt_Brubeck 15:03:12 sorry, mbrubeck, I do not see a party named 'Matt_Brubeck' 15:03:21 +??P19 15:03:26 Present+ Sangwhan_Moon 15:03:30 zakim, P19 is me 15:03:30 sorry, sangwhan, I do not recognize a party named 'P19' 15:03:34 zakim, ??P19 is me 15:03:34 +sangwhan; got it 15:04:14 Topic: Tweak Agenda 15:04:47 AB: the agenda ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/0115.html ) was posted yesterday and it proposes continuing the topics from the last meeting on May 24 ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/0112.html ). 15:05:02 AB: I'd like to move Issue-17 after Issue-6. 15:05:03 Cathy has joined #webevents 15:05:28 AB: the last topic about "specifying behavior for devices with touch hardware" is really about the status of the Intensional Event spec. 15:05:55 AB: any other change requests? 15:06:01 Topic: Announcements 15:06:06 AB: any short announcements? 15:06:35 AB: here's something that people may want to read/scan: http://io9.com/5808604/10-physical-gestures-that-have-been-patented 15:07:32 Topic: Issue-6 (Open) Touch targets in frames 15:07:41 AB: yesterday Matt submitted a proposal for Issue-6 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/6 ). Any comments on Matt's proposal ( http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/rev/29ec4253b862 )? 15:07:53 + +358.505.22aadd 15:08:00 AB: thanks Matt! Note June 9 is the deadline for comments. 15:08:15 Zakim, 22aadd is Olli_Pettay 15:08:15 sorry, smaug, I do not recognize a party named '22aadd' 15:08:36 Zakim, +358.505.22aadd is Olli_Pettay 15:08:36 +Olli_Pettay; got it 15:08:40 MB: I didn't think I needed to go too deep 15:08:49 Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay 15:08:49 ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay 15:08:58 ... I didn't talk about levels of nesting 15:09:09 ... "child browsing context" is from the HTML5 spec 15:09:18 ... I don't know if that term is used elsewhere 15:09:28 DS: HTML5 is the first place to define that 15:09:54 MB: I should add a reference to HTML5 15:10:02 ... is that OK re spec maturity? 15:10:11 DS: an Informative is fine 15:10:23 ... a Normative reference requires a certain level of stability 15:10:49 ... We are running into this problem in other areas 15:11:15 AB: my recommendation is to do-the-right-thing i.e. if the reference should be Normative then make it Normative 15:11:41 ... and as Doug said, the Staff is trying to determine a way forward for other specs 15:12:10 MB: the definition is within Normative spec 15:12:30 DS: let's assume we can solve this so make it Normative reference 15:12:44 ... and if we have a problem down the road, we will do something different 15:13:13 AB: if anyone has any comments on Matt's proposal, please send them to the list by June 9 15:13:18 Topic: Issue-17 (Raised) Page X and Y parameters to createTouch 15:13:28 AB: yesterday Matt submitted a proposal for Issue-17 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/17 ). Any comments on Matt's proposal ( http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/rev/53491ff3514b )? 15:13:41 AB: thanks Matt! June 9 is the deadline for comments. 15:14:19 MB: I am particuarly interested in feedback from Olli 15:14:25 ... since it is based on his work 15:15:14 ... In Gecko, we take all 3 parameters 15:15:39 ... Can't leave out Page 'x and y' 15:16:07 ... No real advantage to specifying clientS and clientY rather than computing them 15:16:26 ... Think this will give more consistency 15:16:33 OP: I am fine with this change 15:16:47 LG: so Webkit does not include clientX and clientY 15:17:29 ... I need to make sure Webkit didn't change 15:17:40 As far as I know, WebKit includes clientX/clientY in the Touch interface, but not in the parameters to document.createTouch. 15:18:04 LG: I need to check Webkit vis-à-vis Matt's latest change 15:18:43 http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/WebCore/WebCore-658.28/dom/TouchEvent.idl 15:18:48 OP: Webkit is apparently inconsistent here 15:19:18 ... createTouch takes pageXandY and screenXandY 15:19:36 ... We can do what Webkit does 15:19:45 ... It's a bit ugly but compatible 15:20:58 http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebCore/dom/Document.cpp#L5032 vs http://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/WebCore/dom/TouchEvent.cpp#L55 15:21:08 MB: initTouchEvent in TouchEvents spec is not compatible with WebKit initTouchEvent 15:22:03 LG: there a couple of issues 15:22:12 ... one is to review the changes Matt proposed 15:22:28 ... and the other is the differences in the initTouchEvents 15:22:55 AB: so, we should leave this open until we get more feedback from at least Laszlo 15:23:11 ... when can you give us some feedback Laszlo? 15:23:20 LG: I will try to get the feedback this week 15:23:40 AB: anything else on Issue-17 for today? 15:23:52 Topic: Issue-3 (Raised) Click event target after DOM mutation during touchstart 15:24:00 AB: Issue-3 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/3 ) is in the raised state. Doug has related Action-23 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/23 ). We last discussed this on May 24 ( http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webevents-minutes.html#item04 ) 15:24:34 DS: I haven't been able to work on this; sorry about that 15:25:05 ... I will try to get something out this week 15:25:27 OP: the click should be dispatched since it happens after the touch events 15:26:11 ... I think we had agreement click should be dispatched 15:26:51 DS: if there is general agreement among the impls, we should use that 15:27:17 AB: so what does that mean in terms of what needs to be specified? 15:27:22 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/0082.html 15:27:34 ... i.e. what change(s) need to be made in the spec? 15:27:53 DS: if Olli wants to make a proposal, I am fine with that 15:28:05 OP: yes, I can make a proposal 15:28:22 ACTION: olli make a proposal for Issue-3 based on current implementations 15:28:22 Created ACTION-51 - Make a proposal for Issue-3 based on current implementations [on Olli Pettay - due 2011-06-14]. 15:28:53 Topic: Issue-16 (Raised) Should the spec be silent or prescriptive re Object Identity 15:29:02 AB: Issue-16 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/issues/16 ) is in the raised state. Laszlo has related Action-46 ( http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/track/actions/46 ). We last discussed this on May 24 ( http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webevents-minutes.html#item05 ) 15:29:38 LG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/0121.html 15:29:49 ... I don't think objects should have persistence 15:30:12 ... Recommend people read the link in my email 15:30:19 ... PPK had a related blog 15:30:41 ... Assuming events perisist probably is not a good idea 15:30:48 http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/58323/trunk/WebCore/page/EventHandler.cpp. doesn't seem to work 15:30:56 LG: I consider my action as done 15:30:58 smaug: Remove the final . 15:31:05 ".", that is 15:31:10 ... and we can discuss it 15:31:11 ah 15:31:33 AB: from a process perspective, yes I will close Action-46 15:32:11 DS: I need to read this 15:32:48 AB: any other comments on Issue-16? 15:33:06 ... the homework is for people to read Laszlo's e-mail 15:33:19 Topic: Status of Intentional Events Spec 15:33:25 AB: on May 24, we talked ( http://www.w3.org/2011/05/24-webevents-minutes.html#item07) about the thread Gregers Gram Rygg started on May 12 ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011AprJun/0098.html ) re "Proposal to specify behavior for terminals without touch hardware". 15:33:43 AB: that discussion lead to a discussion about the Intentional Events spec where some preliminary work has been done by WAI's Protocols and Formats WG ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2010JulSep/att-0106/UserInterfaceIndependence.html ), namely Apple's James Craig. 15:34:08 AB: James indicated (off-list) he hopes to have an Editor's Draft type doc to share in June. 15:34:45 DS: I don't have any additional status 15:35:17 AB: ongoing action for Doug and I to keep up with James' work 15:35:48 Topic: AOB 15:36:00 AB: regarding the next call 15:36:17 ... it appears we still have open, discussions for Issues 3, 16 and 17 15:37:13 ... I would prefer to have more calls in June and less in July and August 15:37:32 AB: any objections to a call on June 13? 15:37:46 AB: next call is June 14 15:38:23 -Doug_Schepers 15:38:24 AB: please follow-up on Issues 3, 16 and 17 on the list 15:38:31 AB: meeting adjourned 15:38:32 -sangwhan 15:38:36 -Olli_Pettay 15:38:37 - +1.781.993.aabb 15:38:40 - +1.781.534.aaaa 15:38:48 - +1.206.792.aacc 15:38:49 RWC_WebEven()11:00AM has ended 15:38:51 Attendees were +1.781.534.aaaa, +1.781.993.aabb, +1.206.792.aacc, Doug_Schepers, sangwhan, Olli_Pettay 15:39:05 Zakim, aacc is Matt_Brubeck 15:39:05 sorry, mbrubeck, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc' 15:39:10 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:39:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webevents-minutes.html ArtB 16:08:09 zakim, bye 16:08:09 Zakim has left #webevents 16:08:20 rrsagent, bye 16:08:20 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webevents-actions.rdf : 16:08:20 ACTION: olli make a proposal for Issue-3 based on current implementations [1] 16:08:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/07-webevents-irc#T15-28-22