14:57:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:57:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-i18n-irc
14:57:38 <aphillip> trackbot, start teleconference
14:57:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:57:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
14:57:42 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:43 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
14:57:43 <trackbot> Date: 01 June 2011
14:58:00 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:58:06 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
14:58:06 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
14:58:25 <aphillip> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2011Jun/0000.html
14:58:36 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:58:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:58:52 <aphillip> rsagent, set logs world-visible
14:59:01 <aphillip> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:59:07 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:59:20 <aphillip> Regrets: Felix
14:59:40 <r12a> possible regrets: David
14:59:44 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
14:59:52 <Zakim> +hta
14:59:54 <r12a> zakim, dial richard
14:59:54 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
14:59:56 <Zakim> +Richard
15:00:02 <Zakim> +Addison_Phillips
15:00:33 <aharon> zakim, mute me
15:00:34 <aphillip> zakim, hta is aharon
15:00:36 <Zakim> sorry, aharon, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:00:38 <Zakim> +aharon; got it
15:00:43 <matial> matial has joined #i18n
15:00:44 <aphillip> zakim, mute aharon
15:00:44 <aharon> zakim, mute me
15:00:47 <Zakim> aharon should now be muted
15:00:49 <Zakim> aharon was already muted, aharon
15:01:14 <Zakim> +??P14
15:01:49 <matial> zakim, mute me
15:01:49 <Zakim> matial should now be muted
15:05:03 <aphillip> Topic: Minutes and Agenda review
15:05:10 <aphillip> WOFF added
15:05:34 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
15:06:04 <aphillip> 	Finish edits and convert time zones document to HTML
15:06:42 <aphillip> 	Talk with Bert about how to deal with change marks in Ruby spec
15:06:58 <aphillip> not yet. they have their f2f currently. two weeks
15:07:19 <aphillip> 	Rewrite response with new proposal to do normalization in comparison
15:07:41 <aphillip> Forward revised normalization letter to CSS including information about namespaces
15:08:10 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
15:08:27 <aphillip> One piece of information for "infoshare": there will be a conference about multilingual technologies (including both i18n related topics but also language technologies like machine translation, various European and international language communities, politicians etc.) at the end of June in Budapest. This may be of interest for some of you.
15:08:37 <aphillip> (above from Felix)
15:09:07 <aphillip> Topic: WOFF
15:10:02 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/1
15:10:47 <aphillip> r12a: chris sent some responses... let's take them one by one
15:10:53 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/2
15:11:32 <aphillip> r12a: why aren't you using xml:lang? but maybe not xml:lang, since for identifying localizations
15:11:57 <aphillip> ... so might be a language attribute
15:12:01 <aphillip> ... they want to use xml:lang
15:12:33 <aphillip> ... last email has their formal response
15:13:19 <aphillip>   Several elements store their data in text child elements; this is to   support localization. The text elements MAY be given a lang   attribute in the XML namespace [XML]. For backwards compatibility,   lang attributes in the default namepsace are also accepted in older   content, and SHOULD be treated the same as xml:lang. New content   SHOULD instead use xml:lang.
15:13:37 <aphillip> r12a: legacy content can use @lang to be interpreted as xml:lang
15:15:00 <aphillip> addison: don't have any restrictions with "MAY"?
15:15:56 <aphillip> addison: do they define 'match' using bcp47?
15:16:27 <aphillip> chair: consensus?
15:16:37 <aphillip> richard: think that it shouldn't have been an xml:lang
15:18:28 <aphillip> ... could use <span> to tag content contained in another language
15:18:49 <aphillip> no objections
15:18:54 <matial> no pb
15:19:05 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/4
15:19:32 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/5
15:19:37 <aphillip> they rejected
15:20:10 <aphillip> r12a: they rejected because it would invalidate existing content; agree in principle, but can't do it
15:21:17 <aphillip> addison: can't have externally applied dir or lang
15:21:48 <aphillip> r12a: "well, we tried..."
15:22:10 <aphillip> ... made our point clearly and they understand, but still decided this way
15:22:21 <aphillip> addison: so disagree, but will not object
15:22:51 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/6
15:23:29 <aphillip> r12a: other information could appear in different languages
15:23:36 <aphillip> ... that is not localizable
15:23:43 <aphillip> ... things like vendor credit and licensee
15:23:57 <aphillip> ... all represented by elements but only one can appear
15:24:48 <aphillip> ... their response: could just use parenthesized aside
15:24:58 <aphillip> addison: works only if you have two
15:27:17 <aphillip> r12a: arabic, hebrew, urdu, etc... mixed direction text probably wouldn't look right (like with parens!)
15:28:12 <aphillip> BIDI FONT CO (english)
15:28:49 <aphillip> addison: so, push back?
15:28:59 <r12a> WERBEH w3c (world wide web consortium)
15:29:06 <aphillip> r12a: I would probably
15:29:41 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/7
15:29:45 <aphillip> done what we asked
15:29:57 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/8
15:30:06 <aphillip> done
15:30:22 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/9
15:30:42 <aphillip> just decided to accept our wording
15:30:57 <aphillip> "The automatic removal of OpenType features such as GPOS and GSUB information at any stage in the process of deploying a WOFF file is strongly discouraged. Many writing systems around the world rely on these features for very basic display of text in the script that they use."
15:31:39 <aphillip> we want to push back on 2 and 6, and we object to 5 but will not pursue
15:32:28 <aphillip> we want to push back on 6 but not 2
15:32:57 <aphillip> ACTION: richard: reply to WOFF indicating our acceptance/non-acceptance of issues per 2011-06-01 telecon
15:32:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Reply to WOFF indicating our acceptance/non-acceptance of issues per 2011-06-01 telecon [on Richard Ishida - due 2011-06-08].
15:33:25 <aphillip> Topic: Richard's Personal names document
15:33:33 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names
15:33:57 <aphillip> richard: wrote a blog post awhile ago and so converted to this document
15:34:02 <aphillip> ... and here it is
15:34:22 <aphillip> ... should we move to wide review?
15:34:28 <aphillip> ... did put some feedback in
15:35:36 <aphillip> http://inter-locale.com/whitepaper/IUC26-a302-Names.pdf
15:36:40 <aharon> zakim, unmute me
15:36:40 <Zakim> aharon should no longer be muted
15:36:44 <aphillip> addison: think it's ready for wide review
15:36:57 <aphillip> aharon: fascinating article
15:37:20 <aphillip> ... not sure that specific recommendations are always something that can be implemented
15:37:36 <aphillip> ... may not be practical solutions
15:37:54 <aphillip> ... if you can, use single name field
15:38:07 <aphillip> ... if you need sort name, greeting/salutation, etc.
15:38:18 <aphillip> ... you end up asking lots of questions or to repeat information
15:38:22 <aphillip> ... confusing user
15:39:21 <r12a> addison: if you build a full solution it's really complicated, so you need to look at your user's needs, and decide on the scope you need
15:40:03 <aphillip> richard: make the "general guidelines" aspect more obvious
15:40:24 <aharon> zakim, mute me
15:40:24 <Zakim> aharon should now be muted
15:41:08 <aharon> not really
15:41:42 <aphillip> addison: ready for wide review still? or want to think about it?
15:41:54 <aphillip> richard: no, it is what review is for....
15:42:01 <aphillip> ... will look at Mark's comments first
15:42:23 <aphillip> ACTION: richard: publish qa-personal-names for wide review
15:42:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Publish qa-personal-names for wide review [on Richard Ishida - due 2011-06-08].
15:42:48 <aphillip> Topic: Normalization
15:45:46 <aphillip> (addison summarizes....)
15:45:47 <aharon> can you throw some urls at us?
15:46:29 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2011AprJun/0060.html
15:46:51 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2011AprJun/
15:46:57 <matial> who is the owner of charmod-norm?
15:47:08 <aphillip> we are the owners
15:47:19 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/
15:49:32 <aphillip> move to note path from rec track
15:53:04 <aphillip> MUSTard
15:54:20 <aphillip> richard: publish a new working draft; plus wiki page stating current thinking
15:54:32 <aphillip> ... WD says "work in progress"
15:56:05 <aphillip> finding source is first hurdle
15:56:40 <aphillip> could dump source and start with html version
15:58:24 <aphillip> basically update status of the document
16:01:19 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: dump charmod-norm and add disclaimer paragraph, dates, etc. so that we can publish an interim working draft
16:01:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Dump charmod-norm and add disclaimer paragraph, dates, etc. so that we can publish an interim working draft [on Addison Phillips - due 2011-06-08].
16:01:58 <aphillip> keep same, change status, dates, and from rec to note
16:02:35 <aphillip> richard will do it starting two weeks from now if addison works on the wiki in the meantime
16:03:11 <aphillip> Topic: Time Zones
16:03:12 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/docs/timezones/Overview.html
16:03:14 <r12a> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:03:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-i18n-minutes.html r12a
16:03:41 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
16:04:22 <aharon> bye...
16:04:26 <matial> bye
16:04:30 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:04:36 <Zakim> -matial
16:04:39 <aharon> aharon has left #i18n
16:04:42 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
16:04:42 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-i18n-actions.rdf :
16:04:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: richard: reply to WOFF indicating our acceptance/non-acceptance of issues per 2011-06-01 telecon [1]
16:04:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-i18n-irc#T15-32-57
16:04:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: richard: publish qa-personal-names for wide review [2]
16:04:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-i18n-irc#T15-42-23
16:04:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: dump charmod-norm and add disclaimer paragraph, dates, etc. so that we can publish an interim working draft [3]
16:04:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/06/01-i18n-irc#T16-01-19
16:04:46 <Zakim> -aharon
16:04:52 <r12a> zakim, who's here ?
16:04:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see Richard, Addison_Phillips
16:04:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, aphillip, r12a, trackbot
16:04:55 <aphillip> zakim, who is here?
16:04:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see Richard, Addison_Phillips