21:26:10 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:26:10 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/25-html-a11y-irc
21:26:12 RRSAgent, make logs world
21:26:12 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
21:26:14 Zakim, this will be 2119
21:26:14 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
21:26:15 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:26:15 Date: 25 May 2011
21:26:41 zakim, agenda?
21:26:41 I see nothing on the agenda
21:27:11 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
21:27:11 Chair: Janina_Sajka
21:27:11 agenda: this
21:27:11 agenda+ Identify Scribe
21:27:11 agenda+ Clean Audio: What shall WE call it?
21:27:11 agenda+ Paused Media: Continuing Discussion
21:27:13 agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
21:27:15 agenda+ Other Business?
21:27:18 agenda+ be done
21:27:19
21:27:27 WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:30PM has now started
21:27:34 +??P1
21:27:43 zakim, ??P1 is Janina
21:27:43 +Janina; got it
21:28:10 +Sean
21:31:26 regrets: John_Foliot, Marc_Watson
21:32:03 +silvia
21:33:36 +Judy
21:34:18 scribe: silvia
21:34:48 next item
21:35:05 zakim, close item 1
21:35:05 agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
21:35:06 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:35:08 2. Clean Audio: What shall WE call it? [from janina]
21:35:13 zakim, next item
21:35:13 agendum 2. "Clean Audio: What shall WE call it?" taken up [from janina]
21:35:37 +Eric
21:36:56 Sean_ has joined #html-a11y
21:37:33 zakim, mute me
21:37:33 silvia should now be muted
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21:38:41 zakim, unmute me
21:38:41 silvia should no longer be muted
21:45:38 discussion about what the tracks are
21:46:05 one type is a multi-channel mix in one track, where one channel has speech-only
21:46:17 such a track is an alternative to main audio
21:46:37 another type is an additional track that contains only speech and can be increased in volume over other tracks
21:46:48 proposal is that we may need both
21:47:09 however there is not enough real-world use case knowledge in the group to validate the use case
21:47:25 we will seek further input from experts before making a decision
21:47:36 zakim, close item 2
21:47:36 agendum 2, Clean Audio: What shall WE call it?, closed
21:47:37 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:47:39 3. Paused Media: Continuing Discussion [from janina]
21:48:18 janina: last week we seemed to have a solution for how to appropriately mark up alternative text, both short and long for video
21:48:32 including poster
21:48:48 both for graphical and non-graphical browsers
21:48:55 I took it to PF today
21:49:23 for example to find out if we retain language markup
21:49:39 and the answer is: yes - the markup is retained for elements, but not for attributes
21:51:12 however, if you go into a non-graphical browsing mode, I'm not sure we are safe
21:52:17 eric: a non-graphical browser would not support the video element and thus should take the fallback inside it
21:53:57 silvia: a lynx developer seemed to indicate that once a non-graphical browser supports html5, it would not display the content inside the video element
21:54:25 instead it would compose such text from the video element's attributes
21:54:41 I am not even sure we should be discussing this here in the a11y TF, but it's an issue for the larger group
21:55:14 eric: it would then also have to support the aria attributes so it should have enough information from aria-describedby as we have suggested it
21:55:39 janina: what are the next steps? need to discuss in the wider community?
21:55:46 I wanted to introduce it into WAI today
21:56:38 sean, eric: seems a fine solution
21:58:33 silvia: the issue that John indicated was that when aria-describedby points to structured markup, screenreaders currently just read it out as text
21:58:56 when it should in fact be read out as structured markup, e.g. including URLs
21:59:21 Janina: yes, PF also agrees with this and screenreaders need to start interpreting such text correctly
22:00:07 next step should be to get this information out more widely so we get good information on that
22:01:16 janina: should this go into the HTML5 spec and / or into the HTML a11y User Agent implementation guide
22:01:44 silvia: there is no spec change necessary for HTML5, but it might be good to add an example into it to get the approach in front of more eyes
22:02:29 eric: what we need to explain to people is how aria-describeby works
22:03:17 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20100504
22:03:36 sorry wrong ...
22:04:26 http://www.w3.org/TR/html-alt-techniques/
22:04:50 it should probably go into the HTML alt techniques document
22:05:16 janina: we also want it in the user agent guide, too
22:05:26 in particular that that level of markup should be supported
22:05:40 e.g. that uris need to be interpreted
22:06:02 eric, silvia: sounds fine by me
22:06:12 janina: will forward it in both cases
22:07:46 silvia: the only thing that we may need a change proposal for, if we still want it, is the @transcript attribute
22:08:15 it could be replaced by a @longdesc attribute as a means to link to a full transcript
22:08:26 sean: I think they are semantically different
22:09:33 silvia: instead we can just have it inside the aria-describedby markup just like we have it for the poster long description
22:09:58
22:12:30 there is a lot of indirection now
22:12:39 sean: is the fallback content even in the dom?
22:12:44 eric, silvia: yes it is
22:14:26 sean: with this markup, there is no semantic markup that a machine can rely on to interprete as the transcript
22:14:31 the user has no way to get at that content
22:15:35 silvia: yes, an attribute @transcript would allow creating a context menu item for users
22:16:12 so do we want to start a discussion in the larger HTML5 group about introducing such an attribute?
22:16:57 I can start such an email discussion on public-html
22:17:05 janina: yes
22:17:10 … general agreement
22:18:10 ACTION: janina to work with authors of HTML alt techniques document and HTML a11y user agent implementation guide to add the aria-describedby video example there
22:18:11 Created ACTION-127 - Work with authors of HTML alt techniques document and HTML a11y user agent implementation guide to add the aria-describedby video example there [on Janina Sajka - due 2011-06-01].
22:18:29 ACTION: silvia to follow-up on @transcript attribute
22:18:29 Created ACTION-128 - Follow-up on @transcript attribute [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2011-06-01].
22:18:47 zakim, close item 3
22:18:47 agendum 3, Paused Media: Continuing Discussion, closed
22:18:48 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:18:50 4. Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from janina]
22:21:30 Judy will follow up on a reply to the ISO/MPEG group
22:21:46 re kind attribute values
22:21:58 other actions are still open and continue
22:22:41 there is also a bug on providing track usage examples - silvia will follow up
22:22:47 zakim, close item 4
22:22:47 agendum 4, Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open, closed
22:22:49 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:22:50 5. Other Business? [from janina]
22:24:56 plh has joined #html-a11y
22:25:02 +Plh
22:29:34 note that Google proposed a WebVTT WG charter to W3C
22:30:45 janina: we still have to take up the topic of navigation
22:32:07 +Eric.a
22:32:09 -Eric
22:33:17 silvia: had a brief discussion with Ian about this and we may be able to satisfy it with existing techniques - have to look at it in more depth - there's a bug in the HTML bug tracker
22:33:29 janina: keen to look at the Web Audio API
22:39:17 there is an ETSI standard on this for broadcasting
22:39:25 zakim, close item 5
22:39:25 agendum 5, Other Business?, closed
22:39:26 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
22:39:26 6. be done [from janina]
22:40:11 -Eric.a
22:40:13 -Sean
22:40:15 -Judy
22:40:17 -Plh
22:40:20 zakim, bye
22:40:20 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Janina, Sean, silvia, Judy, Eric, Plh
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22:40:34 rrsagent, make log public
22:40:52 rrsagent, make minutes
22:40:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/25-html-a11y-minutes.html silvia
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