15:45:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #htmlspeech
15:45:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-htmlspeech-irc
15:46:04 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #htmlspeech
15:46:10 <burn> trackbot, start telcon
15:46:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:46:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
15:46:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:46:15 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Speech Incubator Group Teleconference
15:46:15 <trackbot> Date: 12 May 2011
15:46:18 <burn> zakim, this will be htmlspeech
15:46:18 <Zakim> ok, burn; I see INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
15:46:32 <burn> Chair:  Dan Burnett
15:46:43 <burn> Agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011May/0005.html
15:52:22 <bringert> bringert has joined #htmlspeech
15:54:13 <burn> burn has joined #htmlspeech
15:54:23 <burn> zakim, who's here?
15:54:23 <Zakim> INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM has not yet started, burn
15:54:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see burn, bringert, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot
15:55:03 <Zakim> INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM has now started
15:55:10 <Zakim> +Dan_Burnett
15:55:30 <Zakim> + +44.122.546.aaaa
15:55:49 <burn> zakim, aaaa is Bjorn_Bringert
15:55:49 <Zakim> +Bjorn_Bringert; got it
15:56:37 <burn> zakim, who is noisy?
15:56:48 <Zakim> burn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bjorn_Bringert (45%)
15:57:05 <Zakim> +Milan_Young
15:57:07 <Zakim> -Bjorn_Bringert
15:57:29 <bringert> bringert has joined #htmlspeech
15:57:34 <Milan> Milan has joined #htmlspeech
15:57:52 <Zakim> +Michael_Bodell
15:58:15 <mbodell> mbodell has joined #htmlspeech
15:58:16 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:58:28 <burn> zakim, [Microsoft] is Robert_Brown
15:58:28 <Zakim> +Robert_Brown; got it
15:58:37 <bringert_> bringert_ has joined #htmlspeech
15:58:45 <bringert_> I'm having connectivity issues
15:58:56 <bringert_> and it looks like I'm in here twice
15:59:27 <Charles> Charles has joined #htmlspeech
15:59:35 <Zakim> +AZ
15:59:56 <burn> zakim, AZ is Bjorn_Bringert
15:59:56 <Zakim> +Bjorn_Bringert; got it
16:00:21 <burn> zakim, who's here?
16:00:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Dan_Burnett, Milan_Young, Michael_Bodell, Robert_Brown, Bjorn_Bringert
16:00:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see Charles, bringert_, mbodell, Milan, bringert, burn, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot
16:00:25 <Zakim> + +1.425.381.aabb
16:00:26 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #htmlspeech
16:00:31 <Zakim> + +1.425.830.aacc
16:00:35 <DanD> DanD has joined #htmlspeech
16:00:37 <burn> zakim, aabb is Dan_Druta
16:00:37 <Zakim> +Dan_Druta; got it
16:01:00 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
16:01:02 <burn> zakim, aacc is Charles_Hemphill
16:01:02 <Zakim> +Charles_Hemphill; got it
16:01:03 <robert> robert has joined #htmlspeech
16:01:32 <satish> satish has joined #htmlspeech
16:01:50 <ddahl> bjorn, we can hear you
16:01:59 <bringert> ok, I can't hear anyone else 
16:02:12 <Zakim> -Bjorn_Bringert
16:02:14 <bringert> try a different connection
16:02:17 <bringert> trying
16:02:44 <burn> Scribe:  Dan_Druta
16:02:48 <burn> ScribeNick:  DanD
16:03:39 <burn> Agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011May/0005.html
16:04:05 <smaug> smaug has joined #htmlspeech
16:04:17 <DanD> Topic: Updated final report draft
16:04:43 <DanD> burn: Made a few changes
16:05:22 <DanD> Burn: Topic: Design Decisions with agreements
16:05:34 <Zakim> +??P12
16:05:51 <DanD> Topic: Design Decisions with agreements
16:05:52 <burn> zakim, ??P12 is Olli_Pettay
16:05:56 <Zakim> +Olli_Pettay; got it
16:06:02 <smaug> Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay
16:06:02 <Zakim> ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
16:06:07 <DanD> Burn: Any new items we agree on?
16:06:19 <DanD> Burn: No design decisions?
16:06:36 <DanD> Burn: Any other topics to be discussed later?
16:07:18 <DanD> Topic: Issues discussed in the appendix
16:07:46 <DanD> Topic: Audio Codex
16:07:54 <Zakim> +Michael_Johnston
16:09:37 <DanD> robert: We don't think we should agree on codex. We should look at a few items: One by bandwidth, ip issues,  
16:10:09 <smaug> s/codex/codec
16:10:25 <DanD> robert: there are trade offs
16:10:26 <bringert_> bringert_ has joined #htmlspeech
16:10:56 <Zakim> +Bjorn_Bringert
16:11:06 <DanD> robert: fidelity is another issue
16:11:52 <DanD> burn: We want the ideal codec but there no such thing
16:12:22 <DanD> burn: Opus is a combination of codecs and an attempt to provide an industry standard
16:12:28 <Zakim> +Patrick_Ehlen
16:12:42 <DanD> Milan: RTCWeb is looking at Opus
16:13:13 <DanD> burn: The issue is which audio codex is mandatory to support
16:13:53 <DanD> mbodell: The question is if you can recognize an audio file
16:14:32 <DanD> Milan: is the synthesizer also part of this? 
16:15:29 <DanD> Bringrt: Three items: 1. Codex use for remote speech engine
16:15:35 <bringert> bringert has joined #htmlspeech
16:15:46 <bringert> 1. codecs used between browser and web app specified recognizer
16:16:11 <DanD> Milan: 2. Codec use for file speech
16:16:16 <bringert> 2. codecs used between web app and browser for recognition of existing audio
16:16:23 <smaug> there is terrible echo now
16:16:40 <bringert_> bringert_ has joined #htmlspeech
16:16:46 <burn> zakim, who's making noise?
16:16:57 <Zakim> burn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Dan_Burnett (43%), Milan_Young (14%), Dan_Druta (14%)
16:17:06 <bringert_> 3. codes used between browser and web app specified synthesizer
16:17:11 <Zakim> -Bjorn_Bringert
16:17:15 <burn> zakim, who's making noise?
16:17:25 <Zakim> burn, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
16:18:15 <Zakim> +Bjorn_Bringert
16:18:45 <DanD> mbodell: we should allow other codec to be used 
16:18:58 <DanD> Milan: Sounds like requirements
16:20:24 <DanD> robert: Microsoft uses SIREN owned by Polycom.
16:20:53 <DanD> burn: Voxeo support all
16:21:09 <bringert> Google uses Speex, FLAC and AMR
16:21:36 <Michael> Michael has joined #htmlspeech
16:22:12 <DanD> Milan: Opus has the notion to cutoff audio and saves bandwidth
16:22:39 <DanD> Milan: speech has a critical requirement to capture the first part
16:22:54 <DanD> burn: There are several codecs in Opus
16:23:23 <DanD> burn: There was an attempt to merge
16:23:59 <DanD> Michael: is the issue of support in mobile devices (hardware)
16:24:39 <DanD> Michael: for the mobile browsing we can rely on hardware and fall back
16:25:19 <DanD> bringert: The one codec that has must support is Speex
16:25:51 <DanD> bringert: Caution - there's no container format
16:26:26 <DanD> burn: another issue is transport (framing)
16:26:52 <DanD> Milan: isn't an IETF standard
16:27:10 <DanD> burn: It will require some sort of support for RTP
16:27:30 <DanD> burn: How much SIP support will be needed?
16:28:10 <DanD> burn: There's disarrangement and not everybody want a full SIP stack  
16:28:22 <DanD> bringert: how about OGG?
16:28:30 <burn> s/disarrangement/disagreement
16:28:37 <bringert> Speex codec in OGG container
16:28:42 <burn> s/disarrangement/disagreement/
16:29:32 <DanD> burn: It is appropriate not to commit yet and review next week 
16:30:01 <DanD> Milan: It would be useful to know streaming
16:30:49 <DanD> mbodell: Add a forth item to the list of elements: support for streaming
16:31:18 <DanD> Milan: can we agree that the architecture should support streaming?
16:32:45 <DanD> bringert: I'm fine if we support streaming before the engine starts processing
16:33:55 <DanD> Milan: Recognizer should be able to return results before the end of speech
16:34:52 <DanD> burn: Recognizer should be able to return final result before the end of speech
16:35:10 <DanD> bringert: This rules out HTTP
16:36:56 <DanD> mbodell: You can't get duplex but you can get intermediary responses
16:37:06 <burn> zakim, who is noisy?
16:37:18 <Zakim> burn, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Michael_Bodell (12%), Bjorn_Bringert (8%), Milan_Young (73%), Robert_Brown (14%)
16:37:19 <DanD> Milan: The client can chunk up responses
16:37:58 <DanD> Milan: Is it a violation if we use web sockets?
16:38:05 <bringert> I'm muted
16:41:37 <smaug> burn: we don't seem to have scribe anymore
16:42:21 <DanD> DanD has joined #htmlspeech
16:42:56 <DanD> burn: We need to be careful not to go in a different direction from RTCWeb
16:43:25 <DanD> mbodell: different protocol for different use cases
16:43:44 <DanD> mbodell: http works well for certain cases
16:44:01 <DanD> robert: we don't want to over complicate
16:44:23 <DanD> robert: RTC has a different set of requirements
16:44:57 <DanD> burn: you are right
16:45:26 <DanD> bringert: We have two choices: we go with http and add RTCweb
16:45:28 <burn> zakim, who is noisy?
16:45:39 <Zakim> burn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Robert_Brown (7%)
16:45:42 <DanD> robert: or web sockets
16:46:52 <DanD> bringert: is anyone opposing support for HTTP?
16:47:03 <DanD> bringert: for streaming
16:47:16 <DanD> bringert: We support it in Chrome 11
16:48:46 <DanD> bringert: We want to have http used for other interactions between the user agent and server
16:49:38 <DanD> mbodell: It's not just audio if we understand correctly
16:50:48 <DanD> mbodell: different apps would use different approaches 
16:51:45 <DanD> burn: we can't predict how it will be used
16:52:21 <DanD> Milan: there's a continuous response 
16:52:53 <DanD> robert: I'd like to see a proposal before we agree
16:53:34 <bringert> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhu-http-fullduplex-02
16:53:35 <Zakim> -Patrick_Ehlen
16:54:18 <Zakim> +Patrick_Ehlen
16:55:04 <DanD> Milan: I agree with a solution that uses HTTP as a basic but not full solution
16:55:28 <DanD> robert: I would not call Web Sockets HTTP and I'd like to see a proposal
16:55:54 <DanD> bringert: We should be able to use HTTP
16:56:37 <DanD> burn: We are saying we are mandating HTTP not eliminating the potential support for other
16:56:52 <burn> zakim, who is noisy?
16:57:06 <Zakim> burn, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Charles_Hemphill (3%)
16:57:26 <DanD> bringert: the server does not know what's supported on the browser
16:57:50 <DanD> robert: we need some discovery capability
16:58:05 <Zakim> -Robert_Brown
16:59:13 <DanD> burn: We believe Web Sockets will not be mandated for support
16:59:38 <DanD> Milan: I'm not asking for that but a solution for bidirectional support
17:00:01 <DanD> Milan: if HTTP can do bidirectional we're fine
17:00:36 <DanD> bringert: there's no reason not support HTTP.
17:01:20 <burn> bringert:  would love bidirectional support if we had a good solid candidate for it
17:01:29 <DanD> Milan: Instead of saying HTTP is required let's list the elements
17:01:58 <DanD> bringert: We should require HTTP
17:02:28 <DanD> burn: Agreement - we require http support for all communications and allow for others
17:03:37 <DanD> mbodell: I'd like to have a solution for bidirectional support but we should not block the spec
17:04:28 <DanD> burn: other topics around codecs?
17:04:56 <DanD> mbodell: some audio codecs that support audio and video
17:05:49 <DanD> mbodell: recognize audio from a video+audio stream
17:06:28 <DanD> bringert: I would suggest we don't send video to reduce bandwidth
17:07:23 <DanD> bringert: if we don't have strong use cases we should not add it to the spec
17:07:24 <Zakim> -Patrick_Ehlen
17:07:44 <Zakim> +Patrick_Ehlen
17:08:40 <DanD> bringert: Should we disallow sending video?
17:09:52 <DanD> burn: no agreements and the best way is not to make any other statements
17:10:11 <DanD> burn: add this to the list of topics
17:10:50 <DanD> burn: nobody is talking about gesture recognition just audio
17:13:04 <DanD> burn: we will get back to this
17:13:36 <DanD> burn: Other items related to codecs?
17:14:36 <DanD> Milan: are there any other candidates:
17:15:04 <DanD> burn: OPUS. Big but with support for different use cases
17:16:08 <mbodell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_audio_codecs
17:17:49 <DanD> Topic: F2F Logistics
17:18:05 <DanD> bringert: no updates
17:18:42 <DanD> bringert: I will come back with directions from the hotel to the offices
17:20:11 <DanD> bringert: We sent the directions from the airport
17:20:30 <DanD> bringert: everybody should have gotten the email
17:21:32 <DanD> burn: it would still be good if we have some directions from hotel to the Google offices
17:22:18 <DanD> burn: one more call before the f2f
17:23:25 <Zakim> -Milan_Young
17:26:07 <DanD> bringert: There's a statement about the agreement on the user interface that is not well captured
17:26:34 <DanD> burn: We need to revise it
17:27:04 <Zakim> -Michael_Bodell
17:27:09 <Zakim> -Olli_Pettay
17:27:10 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
17:27:11 <Zakim> -Patrick_Ehlen
17:27:21 <Zakim> -Michael_Johnston
17:27:23 <Zakim> -Dan_Druta
17:27:42 <bringert> bringert has joined #htmlspeech
17:27:58 <Zakim> -Bjorn_Bringert
17:28:24 <burn> Regrets:  Marc_Schroeder
17:28:33 <Zakim> -Charles_Hemphill
17:30:13 <burn> s/We need to revise it/Yes, I somehow dropped the most important decision -- that it must NOT be possible to customize the part of the user interface that indicates the microphone is open.  I will add that in./
17:30:23 <burn> s/codex/codecs/g
17:30:40 <Zakim> -Dan_Burnett
17:30:41 <Zakim> INC_(HTMLSPEECH)12:00PM has ended
17:30:42 <Zakim> Attendees were Dan_Burnett, +44.122.546.aaaa, Bjorn_Bringert, Milan_Young, Michael_Bodell, Robert_Brown, +1.425.381.aabb, +1.425.830.aacc, Dan_Druta, Debbie_Dahl, Charles_Hemphill,
17:30:45 <Zakim> ... Olli_Pettay, Michael_Johnston, Patrick_Ehlen
17:30:57 <burn> zakim, bye
17:30:57 <Zakim> Zakim has left #htmlspeech
17:31:06 <burn> rrsagent, make log public
17:31:15 <burn> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:31:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
17:31:33 <ddahl> ddahl has left #htmlspeech
17:32:33 <burn> s/, +44.122.546.aaaa//
17:33:01 <burn> s/, +1.425.381.aabb, +1.425.830.aacc//
17:33:08 <burn> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:33:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
17:34:51 <burn> s/Codex/Codecs/g
17:34:56 <burn> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:34:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/12-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn