IRC log of ua on 2011-05-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:33:39 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-irc
16:33:41 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:33:41 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:33:43 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
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ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 27 minutes
16:33:44 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:33:44 [trackbot]
Date: 05 May 2011
16:33:57 [JAllan]
chair: JimAllan, KellyFord
16:34:05 [JAllan]
regrets: JSpellman
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zakim, code?
16:58:32 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), sharper
17:02:04 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:02:05 [Zakim]
+JAllan
17:02:13 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
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+Greg
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-Greg
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+Greg
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+[Microsoft]
17:02:32 [kford]
zakim, microsoft is kford
17:02:32 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
17:04:09 [JAllan]
Agenda+ EIR creation for GL 2.8 [tool bars]
17:04:11 [JAllan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110406/#gl-configure-controls
17:04:20 [JAllan]
Agenda+ EIR SC 1.11.2 Extended Link Information:: The following
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information is provided for each link (Level AAA)
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:http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110406/#gl-info-link
17:04:36 [JAllan]
Agenda+ EIR for GL 2.9 Provide control of content that may reduce
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accessibility [mostly media]
17:04:39 [JAllan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110406/#gl-control-inaccessible-content
17:04:51 [JAllan]
Agenda+ EIR GL 1.9 (2-11) Provide an effective focus
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mechanism.http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110406/#gl-focus-mechanism
17:05:58 [Zakim]
+??P2
17:06:13 [sharper]
zakim, ??P2 is sharper
17:06:13 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:16:08 [JAllan]
zakim, open item 1
17:16:08 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "EIR creation for GL 2.8" taken up [from tool bars via JAllan]
17:16:12 [JAllan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0028.html
17:16:24 [kford]
Scribe: kford
17:16:34 [JAllan]
EIR Proposal
17:17:20 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:17:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-minutes.html kford
17:18:58 [kford]
Present+Greg, Jim, Kelly, Simon
17:19:19 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:19:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-minutes.html kford
17:20:37 [JAllan]
previous iteration: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0073.html
17:21:32 [sharper]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0078.html
17:23:32 [sharper]
http://silversurfers.digitalunite.com/
17:27:38 [JAllan]
2.8.1 (former 4.8.1) Configure Position:
17:27:40 [JAllan]
When graphical user agent user interfaces have toolbars, panels, inspectors, or similar,
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the user can add, remove and configure the position of user agent user interface
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controls from a pre-defined set. (Level AAA)
17:30:24 [kford]
Group is combining two proposals for these.
17:30:25 [JAllan]
The objective of this criteria is to allow the user to customize the toolbars of a user agent in ways that work best for the method in which he or she is using the browser. This can reduce keystrokes, bring buttons into view that are hidden by default or otherwise allow the user to interact with the user agent in a more efficient fashion. Similarly users with low vision may have to excessively mov
17:30:26 [JAllan]
e their magnified view-port to see frequently used controls. Enabling these controls to be situated together removes much of the strain faced by these users, and increases productivity as
17:30:28 [JAllan]
task completion times are decreased.
17:31:32 [JAllan]
The objective of this criteria is to allow the user to customize the toolbars of a user agent in ways that work best for the method in which he or she is using the browser. This can reduce keystrokes, bring buttons into view that are hidden by default or otherwise allow the user to interact with the user agent in a more efficient fashion. Similarly users with low vision may have to excessively mov
17:31:33 [JAllan]
e their magnified view-port to see frequently used controls. Enabling these controls to be situated together removes much of the strain faced by these users, and increases productivity as task completion times are decreased.
17:33:13 [JAllan]
The objective of this criteria is to allow the user to customize the toolbars of a user agent in ways that work best for the method in which he or she is using the browser. This can reduce keystrokes, bring buttons into view that are hidden by default or otherwise allow the user to interact with the user agent in a more efficient fashion. Users with dexterity impairments or mobility...
17:33:14 [JAllan]
...impairments may have problems making the large movements required to select between non-adjacent controls which they need to use frequently. Similarly users with low vision may have to excessively move their magnified view-port to see frequently used controls. Enabling these controls to be situated together removes much of the strain faced by these users, and increases productivity as...
17:33:16 [JAllan]
...task completion times are decreased.
17:35:23 [JAllan]
Examples of Success Criterion 2.8.1 (former 4.8.1) :
17:35:25 [JAllan]
Martin accesses the computer by pressing keys with a stick held in his mouth known as a mouthstick and gets around the user agent with taps on the tab and arrow keys. The designers of a user agent have decided to place a button for printing a web page as the last button on a toolbar. This button requires six presses of a right arrow key to reach for Carl and is the only button he uses on...
17:35:26 [JAllan]
...the toolbar. Using a preferences dialog, Carl is able to configure this toolbar to only show the Print button, reducing the number of presses he must issue with his mouthstick to one.
17:36:31 [Zakim]
+Mark_Hakkinen
17:36:50 [mhakkinen]
mhakkinen has joined #ua
17:36:57 [JAllan]
s/Carl/Martin
17:36:58 [kford]
Present+Mark
17:38:29 [JAllan]
2.8.2 (former 4.8.2) Restore Default Toolbars:
17:38:30 [JAllan]
The user can restore the default toolbar, panel, inspector, configuration. (Level AAA)
17:38:32 [JAllan]
* Intent of Success Criterion 2.8.2 (former 4.8.2) :
17:38:33 [JAllan]
Mistakes happen. If a user has modified the toolbar incorrectly it can
17:38:35 [JAllan]
often be difficult to return to a stable state so that these errors can
17:38:36 [kford]
Action: JS to update document with intent and examples for 2.8.1 and 2.8.2 from last text pasted from JA.
17:38:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-548 - Update document with intent and examples for 2.8.1 and 2.8.2 from last text pasted from JA. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-05-12].
17:38:37 [JAllan]
be corrected. There are additional pressures in this regard for people
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with learning difficulties who make more use of toolbars than they do of
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textual menus. Building an easily selectable mechanism to restore these
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defaults saves user time and reduces stress.
17:38:43 [JAllan]
* Examples of Success Criterion 2.8.2 (former 4.8.2) :
17:38:45 [JAllan]
Jack, is an 80 year old web surfer who is intellectually very sharp
17:38:46 [JAllan]
but experiences tremors in his hands when required to make fine
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movements with the mouse. To help himself he is setting up the toolbar
17:38:50 [JAllan]
so that 'spacers' are placed between each component to prevent
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accidental selection of adjacent buttons. Today his tremors are
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particulaly bad and Jack makes a number of mistakes becoming
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increasingly frustrated that while trying to correct these errors he
17:38:57 [JAllan]
begins to make many more. Jack just wants to start over. Luckily the
17:38:59 [JAllan]
Browser manufacturer has included an easy mechanism to restore the
17:39:00 [JAllan]
default toolbar configuration. Jack chooses this option and successfully
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starts over the next day.
17:39:03 [JAllan]
* Related Resources for Success Criterion 2.8.2 (former 4.8.2) :
17:39:04 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:39:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-minutes.html kford
17:39:53 [JAllan]
Zakim, close item 1
17:39:53 [Zakim]
agendum 1, EIR creation for GL 2.8, closed
17:39:54 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:39:56 [Zakim]
2. EIR SC 1.11.2 Extended Link Information:: The following [from JAllan]
17:40:07 [JAllan]
zakim, open item 2
17:40:07 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "EIR SC 1.11.2 Extended Link Information:: The following" taken up [from JAllan]
17:41:06 [JAllan]
1.11.2 (former 3.13.2) Extended Link Information:
17:41:08 [JAllan]
The following information is provided for each link (Level AAA) :
17:41:09 [JAllan]
link title,
17:41:11 [JAllan]
technology type (of the linked Web resource)
17:41:12 [JAllan]
internal/external: (whether the link is internal to the resource e.g., the link is to a target in the same Web page)
17:41:49 [JAllan]
Simon's Proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0040.html
17:41:57 [JAllan]
Greg's Response http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011JanMar/0046.html
17:43:12 [JAllan]
current draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20110428/
17:43:50 [Greg]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20110428/MasterUAAG20110426.html
17:45:59 [Zakim]
-sharper
17:47:27 [kford]
JA: We should already know if these areinternalor external so I'm not sure this is needed.
17:48:00 [kford]
JA: On technology tupe I guess this is looking at the source and telling you?
17:48:15 [Zakim]
-Mark_Hakkinen
17:48:22 [kford]
GL: I don't know if there is a standard way to query a server and know this.
17:48:53 [kford]
JA: KF at one point asked why individuals with disabilities should get more info?
17:49:05 [kford]
JA: I'm making a case to pitch this.
17:49:28 [kford]
GL: Is there a big beneift to people with disabilities to having this?
17:49:55 [kford]
GL: How about link title? But this is used inconsistently.
17:50:23 [kford]
GL: But the alt would be the default.
17:51:34 [Greg]
A use case in favor of providing the user a way to perceive the title attribute: a person using a mouse can have an element's title attribute presented to them by hovering the mouse over it, but a user who cannot use a mouse needs an alternative method.
17:52:47 [mhakkinen]
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mth .. my dsl went down.
17:56:39 [JAllan]
action: js to add "remove 1.11.1 extended link information" on survey for next week
17:56:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-549 - Add "remove 1.11.1 extended link information" on survey for next week [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-05-12].
17:57:26 [JAllan]
zakim, close item 2
17:57:26 [Zakim]
agendum 2, EIR SC 1.11.2 Extended Link Information:: The following, closed
17:57:28 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:57:30 [Zakim]
3. EIR for GL 2.9 Provide control of content that may reduce [from JAllan]
17:57:40 [JAllan]
zakim, Open item 3
17:57:40 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "EIR for GL 2.9 Provide control of content that may reduce" taken up [from JAllan]
17:57:47 [JAllan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Guideline_2.9
17:59:46 [JAllan]
GL: cites Mark for comma abuse
18:00:18 [mhakkinen]
It is a character flaw
18:00:29 [Greg]
(Yeah, because it takes one to know now.)
18:00:39 [Greg]
s/now/one/
18:01:54 [Greg]
In 2.9.5 Intent, might also include the fact that a person may want to slow down the media if they are trying to take notes, and do so slowly because of language or dexterity impairments, etc.
18:02:27 [mhakkinen]
Good point
18:04:52 [JAllan]
I edited wiki for typos and added Gregs comment
18:05:05 [JAllan]
s/Gregs/Greg's
18:05:58 [kford]
Action: JS update document with intent and examples from wiki entry for 2.9.5.
18:06:01 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-550 - Update document with intent and examples from wiki entry for 2.9.5. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-05-12].
18:06:49 [kford]
zakim, close item 3
18:06:49 [Zakim]
agendum 3, EIR for GL 2.9 Provide control of content that may reduce, closed
18:06:51 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
18:06:53 [Zakim]
4. EIR GL 1.9 (2-11) Provide an effective focus [from JAllan]
18:07:05 [kford]
Now moving to survey.
18:07:07 [mhakkinen]
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18:07:12 [JAllan]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110503/results
18:07:23 [JAllan]
Topic: survey results
18:07:34 [AndChat|]
AndChat| has joined #ua
18:07:53 [Zakim]
+Mark_Hakkinen
18:07:57 [kford]
Looking at 3.4.1, avoid unpredictable focus.
18:11:19 [JAllan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Keyboard,_Focus,_and_Navigation_Restructuring
18:11:26 [kford]
Action: JS update document with text from wiki entry on 3.4.1.
18:11:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-551 - Update document with text from wiki entry on 3.4.1. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-05-12].
18:11:43 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:11:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-minutes.html kford
18:11:59 [kford]
Looking at 3.4.2, avoide side effects of navigation
18:15:32 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:15:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-minutes.html kford
18:18:23 [Greg]
In the April editor's draft it read "1.9.11 (former 3.11.11) On Focus: The user can ensure that moving the keyboard focus to or from an enabled element does not cause the user agent to take any further action. (Level A)".
18:20:02 [JAllan]
The user can move the keyboard focus to or from any enabled element without causing the user agent to take any further action. (Level A)
18:20:08 [Greg]
People seem to agree with the observation in the survey that we need to exempt some effects, including transient presentation of information and scrolling.
18:21:29 [JAllan]
The user can move the keyboard focus without causing the user agent to take any further action, other than the presentation of information (e.g. scrolling or pop-ups that do not change the focus or selection).
18:22:10 [kford]
All think this looks good.
18:23:46 [kford]
Action: JUS update document with wiki text from 3.4.2
18:23:46 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - JUS
18:24:14 [kford]
Action: JS Update document with wiki text for 3.4.2
18:24:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-552 - Update document with wiki text for 3.4.2 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2011-05-12].
18:26:30 [Zakim]
-kford
18:26:32 [Zakim]
-Greg
18:31:55 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:31:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-minutes.html kford
18:34:33 [kford]
zakim, please part
18:34:33 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were JAllan, Greg, kford, sharper, Mark_Hakkinen
18:34:33 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
18:35:31 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:35:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-minutes.html kford
18:35:40 [mhakkinen]
mhakkinen has left #ua
18:35:41 [kford]
rrsagent, please part
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-actions.rdf :
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS to update document with intent and examples for 2.8.1 and 2.8.2 from last text pasted from JA. [1]
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-irc#T17-38-36
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: js to add "remove 1.11.1 extended link information" on survey for next week [2]
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-irc#T17-56-39
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS update document with intent and examples from wiki entry for 2.9.5. [3]
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-irc#T18-05-58
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS update document with text from wiki entry on 3.4.1. [4]
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-irc#T18-11-26
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JUS update document with wiki text from 3.4.2 [5]
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-irc#T18-23-46
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JS Update document with wiki text for 3.4.2 [6]
18:35:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/05-ua-irc#T18-24-14