19:48:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webperf
19:48:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-webperf-irc
19:48:14 <JatinderMann> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
19:48:43 <JatinderMann> Meeting: Web Performance WG Teleconference #31 2011-05-04
19:48:49 <JatinderMann> scribe: Jatinder Mann
19:49:38 <JatinderMann> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2011May/0047.html
19:50:02 <JatinderMann> move to agenda 1
19:50:19 <JatinderMann> agenda+ Feedback and discussion on proposed updates to Resource and User Timing.
19:50:28 <JatinderMann> agenda+ Feedback and discussion on Resource Timing Processing Model.
19:50:38 <JatinderMann> agenda+ Feedback and discussion on updates to Page Visibility spec.
19:50:53 <JatinderMann> agenda+ Feedback and discussion on updates to AnimationRequestFrame spec.
19:51:06 <JatinderMann> present+ Jatinder Mann
20:02:13 <Christian> Christian has joined #webperf
20:04:00 <tonyg> tonyg has joined #webperf
20:04:23 <JatinderMann> present+ Zhiheng
20:04:26 <JatinderMann> present+ Arvind
20:04:43 <JatinderMann> present+ TonyG
20:04:46 <JatinderMann> present+ JamesS
20:05:08 <JatinderMann> present+ Christian
20:05:16 <JatinderMann> agenda move to 1
20:05:26 <JatinderMann> move to agenda 1
20:05:36 <JatinderMann> -	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2011May/0046.html
20:06:10 <zhiheng> zhiheng has joined #webperf
20:16:50 <JatinderMann> -	Zhiheng: Want to keep measures, just want it to be more coherent with mark and measures. Measures is important because it gives a standard interface.
20:17:27 <JatinderMann> Zhiheng: Follow up with Tony and James to see if they can propose a way to make measure and marks work better together.
20:18:56 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: The "type" attribute and getResourceTimingsByType method provide users with a simple way to roughly sort their resource timing data by the initiator types. As some initiators, like XHR and Script, can load additional resources, it is useful and practical for web developers to sort their resources by the type of initiator. The initiator type will not change over time. The "type" attribute doesn't suffer from the problems of the "id" attribute a
20:19:08 <JatinderMann> Christian: Agree.
20:20:07 <JatinderMann> Tony: What type in particular would you want to look at?
20:37:22 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: An example would be if you are pulling video and images resources from a news site, the URLs would typically look the same. Here pulling by Type is useful.
20:37:46 <JatinderMann> We have agreed to keep the type data in the array, but remove the getResourceTimingsByType accessor.
20:41:10 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: Do not want to require Resource Timing to be explicitly enabled by web developers.
20:41:29 <JatinderMann> ...Our joint analysis, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2010Dec/0024.html, had shown that the impact of keeping Resource Timing enabled is negligible. The average number of resources per page is 42 and the 90th percentile is 145. The benefit of having Resource Timing enabled by default will mean that web pages using analytics libraries will have to make no explicit change to use Resource Timing. Otherwise, all analytic library users w
20:41:45 <JatinderMann> ...Resource timing.
20:43:32 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: We agree that the Resource Timing should be on by default, however, the maximum number of resources captured by default should be reduced from 1000 to a smaller number.
20:43:59 <JatinderMann> Action Jatinder to analyse data to see what the recommended buffer size should be.
20:44:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Analyse data to see what the recommended buffer size should be. [on Jatinder Mann - due 2011-05-11].
20:44:20 <JatinderMann> move to next agenda
20:44:20 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Feedback and discussion on Resource Timing Processing Model." taken up [from JatinderMann]
20:44:52 <JatinderMann> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webperf/raw-file/tip/specs/ResourceTiming/Overview.html#processing-model
20:45:34 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: Let's review the Processing Model.
20:46:31 <JatinderMann> James: Let's remove fetchEnd or responseEnd from the timing, as they are redundant.
20:48:01 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: Let's be consistent with Navigation Timing and cut fetchEnd.
20:49:44 <JatinderMann> Tony: The processing model doesn't seem to have the cross-origin details that navigation timing has.
20:50:05 <JatinderMann> James: I prefer resourceStart rather than resourceFetchStart.
20:50:09 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: Agreed.
20:51:11 <JatinderMann> Chrisitian: The processing model should be clear that secureConnectionStart is optional.
20:58:24 <heycam> Zakim, who is on the call?
20:58:24 <Zakim> sorry, heycam, I don't know what conference this is
20:58:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see tonyg, RRSAgent, Zakim, JatinderMann, trackbot, heycam
20:58:28 <heycam> Zakim, this is WPERF
20:58:28 <Zakim> ok, heycam; that matches RWC_web-per(WPWG)4:00PM
20:58:32 <heycam> Zakim, who is on the call?
20:58:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see [Microsoft], [IPcaller]
20:58:37 <heycam> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
20:58:37 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
21:00:30 <JatinderMann> move to next agenda
21:00:30 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Feedback and discussion on updates to Page Visibility spec." taken up [from JatinderMann]
21:00:41 <jamesr> jamesr has joined #webperf
21:01:19 <Zakim> +TabAtkins
21:01:42 <jamesr> hmm
21:01:47 <jamesr> i think zakim thinks i am TabAtkins
21:01:51 <jamesr> Zakim, who is on the call?
21:01:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see [Microsoft], heycam, TabAtkins
21:01:56 <jamesr> yeah he must use the same phone
21:02:02 <heycam> Zakim, TabAtkins is jamesr
21:02:02 <Zakim> +jamesr; got it
21:02:12 <jamesr> that'll mess him up on the next CSS call :)
21:03:14 <JatinderMann> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2011May/0045.html
21:09:35 <JatinderMann> Action Jatinder to check whether to name the API window.visible, document.visible, window.pageVisible and document.pagVisible.
21:09:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-26 - Check whether to name the API window.visible, document.visible, window.pageVisible and document.pagVisible. [on Jatinder Mann - due 2011-05-11].
21:21:31 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: Changes I made: Window rather than Navigator implements WindowVisibility interface.
21:22:02 <JatinderMann> ..updated the event name to visibilitychange.I have also specified that this event can only be registered using addEventListener on window; this implies that this event can’t be exposed using onvisibilitychange. 
21:23:12 <JatinderMann> Cameron: Let's see if we can follow up and see what the value is for keeping onvisibilitychange.
21:23:38 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: I  have generalized the definitions of visibility from my previous very specific cases. I have defined page visibility as the visibility state of the Document contained by the top level browsing context.
21:25:02 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: I have combined the two preview states to a single PAGE_PREVIEW state. Per Alex’s initial email on page visibility, he had shown interest in a page preview state: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2011JanMar/0175.html.
21:25:13 <JatinderMann> JamesR: What's the value of having PAGE_OTHER?
21:25:46 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: Will follow up and see if there was a historical reason for having a reserved constant. 
21:25:59 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: I have updated the example section with more description and an updated example. The updated example is a skeleton case of throttling checking for email when not visible. Let me know if you have any better examples in mind.
21:26:48 <JatinderMann> move to next agenda
21:26:48 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Feedback and discussion on updates to AnimationRequestFrame spec." taken up [from JatinderMann]
21:30:00 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: I understand that a browser may not be able to guarantee that a callback will occur. We should attempt to specify match the number of callbacks with the refresh rate of the display.
21:30:23 <JatinderMann> JamesR: Will update the spec to cover the callback rate.
21:30:53 <Zakim> -jamesr
21:30:55 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:30:57 <Zakim> RWC_web-per(WPWG)4:00PM has ended
21:30:59 <Zakim> Attendees were [Microsoft], +1.650.253.aaaa, +1.650.691.aabb, +44.207.184.aacc, +1.650.214.aadd, heycam, jamesr
21:49:02 <JatinderMann> rrsagent, create minutes
21:49:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-webperf-minutes.html JatinderMann
21:49:10 <JatinderMann> rrsagent, bye
21:49:10 <RRSAgent> I see no action items