IRC log of webtv on 2011-05-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:56:03 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #webtv
13:56:03 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/03-webtv-irc
13:56:05 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
13:56:07 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be
13:56:07 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:56:08 [trackbot]: Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference
13:56:08 [trackbot]: Date: 03 May 2011
13:56:23 [francois]: zakim, what conferences?
13:56:23 [Zakim]: I see Team_(RevCadence)9:00AM active
13:56:25 [Zakim]: also scheduled at this time are MWI_BPWG()9:30AM, VB_VBWG()10:00AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)9:00AM, INC_SSN()9:00AM, Team_(poiwg)13:00Z, XML_(TAG TF)10:00AM, Team_(MEET)10:00AM,
13:56:28 [Zakim]: ... W3C_(COMM)9:30AM, IA_Team()10:00AM, TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM, Team_(sandisk)13:30Z, T&S_XMLSEC()10:00AM, SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM, Team_(webtv)14:00Z
13:58:46 [jcdufourd]: jcdufourd has joined #webtv
13:59:45 [kaz]: zakim, call kazuyuki-617
13:59:45 [Zakim]: sorry, kaz, I don't know what conference this is
13:59:55 [francois]: zakim, this will be webtv
13:59:55 [Zakim]: ok, francois, I see Team_(webtv)14:00Z already started
13:59:58 [Zakim]: + +1.650.483.aacc
14:00:01 [kaz]: zakim, call kazuyuki-617
14:00:02 [Zakim]: ok, kaz; the call is being made
14:00:02 [Zakim]: +Kazuyuki
14:00:11 [Zakim]: +??P10
14:00:18 [kaz]: zakim, who is here?
14:00:18 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +1.760.705.aaaa, +46.1.34.79.aabb, ??P9, +1.650.483.aacc, Kazuyuki, ??P10
14:00:21 [Zakim]: On IRC I see jcdufourd, RRSAgent, Zakim, aizu, csderstr, francois, giuseppep, kaz, trackbot
14:00:45 [francois]: zakim, code?
14:00:45 [Zakim]: the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), francois
14:00:48 [Zakim]: +francois
14:01:00 [francois]: zakim, who is on the call?
14:01:00 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +1.760.705.aaaa, +46.1.34.79.aabb, ??P9, +1.650.483.aacc, Kazuyuki, ??P10, francois
14:01:25 [csderstr]: I think I am the +46 number
14:01:34 [Zakim]: +??P17
14:01:35 [kaz]: [ zakim, xxxx is me ]
14:01:38 [francois]: zakim, aabb is csderstr
14:01:38 [Zakim]: +csderstr; got it
14:01:54 [kaz]: zakim, aabb is csdesrstr
14:01:55 [Zakim]: + +1.503.705.aadd
14:01:57 [Zakim]: sorry, kaz, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
14:02:01 [Zakim]: +??P19
14:02:10 [francois]: zakim, aadd is narm
14:02:11 [Zakim]: +narm; got it
14:02:13 [rberkoff]: rberkoff has joined #webtv
14:02:24 [Zakim]: +??P21
14:02:31 [francois]: zakim, ??P19 is jcdufourd
14:02:31 [Zakim]: +jcdufourd; got it
14:02:38 [francois]: zakim, ??P21 is clarke
14:02:38 [Zakim]: +clarke; got it
14:02:42 [francois]: zakim, who is on the call?
14:02:42 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +1.760.705.aaaa, csderstr, ??P9, +1.650.483.aacc, Kazuyuki, ??P10, francois, ??P17, narm, jcdufourd, clarke
14:03:09 [rberkoff]: 41#
14:03:47 [francois]: zakim, aaaa is MarkVickers
14:03:47 [Zakim]: +MarkVickers; got it
14:04:11 [donghyun_kang]: donghyun_kang has joined #webtv
14:04:14 [clarke]: clarke has joined #webtv
14:04:15 [rberkoff]: 760 - R Berkoff Samsung
14:04:18 [francois]: zakim, aacc is really MarkVickers
14:04:18 [Zakim]: +MarkVickers; got it
14:04:36 [kaz]: zakim, aaaa is Russell_Berkoff
14:04:36 [Zakim]: sorry, kaz, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
14:04:41 [francois]: zakim, who is on the call?
14:04:41 [Zakim]: On the phone I see MarkVickers, csderstr, ??P9, MarkVickers.a, Kazuyuki, ??P10, francois, ??P17, narm, jcdufourd, clarke
14:04:50 [francois]: zakim, MarkVickers is really Russell
14:04:50 [Zakim]: +Russell; got it
14:05:00 [francois]: zakim, MarkVickers.a is really MarkVickers
14:05:00 [Zakim]: +MarkVickers; got it
14:05:01 [kaz]: zakim, who is here?
14:05:02 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Russell, csderstr, ??P9, MarkVickers, Kazuyuki, ??P10, francois, ??P17, narm, jcdufourd, clarke
14:05:06 [giuseppep]: I'm probably one of P10 P9 or P17 ?
14:05:06 [Zakim]: On IRC I see clarke, donghyun_kang, rberkoff, jcdufourd, RRSAgent, Zakim, aizu, csderstr, francois, giuseppep, kaz, trackbot
14:05:09 [Zakim]: + +82.26.91.2.aaee
14:05:19 [kaz]: zakim, where is +82?
14:05:19 [Zakim]: country code 82 is South Korea
14:05:50 [kaz]: zakim, aaee is DongHyun
14:05:50 [Zakim]: +DongHyun; got it
14:06:05 [francois]: zakim, who is making noise?
14:06:13 [panze_]: panze_ has joined #webtv
14:06:16 [Zakim]: francois, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Russell (24%)
14:06:23 [kaz]: zakim, probably ??P10 is Giuseppe
14:06:23 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'probably ??P10 is Giuseppe', kaz
14:06:30 [kaz]: zakim, ??P10 is Giuseppe
14:06:30 [Zakim]: +Giuseppe; got it
14:06:44 [mav]: mav has joined #webtv
14:06:44 [aizu]: I'm call with SIP, P?? is me
14:06:58 [kaz]: zakim, ??P17 is Hiroyuki_Aizu
14:06:58 [Zakim]: +Hiroyuki_Aizu; got it
14:07:05 [giuseppep]: should we start?
14:07:42 [panze_]: Yup, panze_
14:07:51 [csderstr]: francois, I'm Christian Söderström from Opera :)
14:08:03 [panze_]: Panu Markkanen from Nokia
14:08:13 [kaz]: zakim, ??P9 is Panu
14:08:14 [Zakim]: +Panu; got it
14:08:42 [francois]: scribe: francois
14:09:05 [francois]: zakim, mute me
14:09:05 [Zakim]: francois should now be muted
14:09:10 [kaz]: Present: Russell, csderstr, Panu, MarkVickers, Kazuyuki, Giuseppe, francois, Hiroyuki_Aizu, narm, jcdufourd, clarke, DongHyun, francois
14:09:13 [giuseppep]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Agenda_Telco_3rd_May_2011
14:09:19 [francois]: Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Agenda_Telco_3rd_May_2011
14:09:23 [francois]: Chair: Giuseppe
14:09:59 [francois]: giuseppe: reviewing the agenda. Going through the requirements, then the open issues to see what we can finalize.
14:10:27 [francois]: ... Also the issue on listing services raised by Jan last time.
14:10:38 [francois]: ... Any other point to the agenda?
14:10:48 [francois]: Topic: Requirements document
14:10:52 [giuseppep]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Requirements
14:10:54 [rberkoff]: q+ rberkoff
14:11:10 [panze_]: zakim, I am Panu
14:11:10 [Zakim]: ok, panze_, I now associate you with Panu
14:11:36 [francois]: giuseppe: starts with common text, abstract and introduction. Let me know if you have comments there. Then use cases and requirements.
14:11:58 [francois]: ... As soon as we start approving use cases, we can capture them in this document.
14:12:27 [francois]: ... After we are done with use cases, we can start extract requirements for these use cases.
14:12:41 [giuseppep]: q?
14:12:43 [rberkoff]: q+ rberkoff
14:12:44 [francois]: ... One of the section in requirements will of course be security and privacy.
14:12:48 [francois]: ack aaaa
14:12:50 [francois]: ack rberkoff
14:13:07 [francois]: russell: agenda item on F2F?
14:13:17 [francois]: giuseppe: ok.
14:13:24 [kaz]: agenda+ f2f planning
14:13:46 [francois]: giuseppe: I looked at other requirements documents (e.g. Audio XG) to build this one.
14:13:47 [giuseppep]: q?
14:14:07 [francois]: zakim, q- +1.760.705.aaaa
14:14:08 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
14:14:12 [rberkoff]: q+ rberkoff
14:14:22 [francois]: zakim, who is making noise?
14:14:33 [Zakim]: francois, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Russell (100%), csderstr (19%)
14:14:41 [francois]: q?
14:14:47 [kaz]: q?
14:14:50 [francois]: ack rberkoff
14:15:11 [francois]: russell: Question on associating tracker numbers.
14:15:25 [francois]: ... to mention them in the template
14:15:30 [kaz]: q+
14:15:35 [francois]: giuseppe: they may not start from 1.
14:15:43 [francois]: ... I'm not sure we need to keep track on that.
14:16:00 [francois]: ... The background discussion will be tracker on the Wiki. This document will be converted to a pure HTML document in the end.
14:16:15 [francois]: ... The results of the discussion should be captured in this document.
14:16:26 [francois]: russell: so this will be the index of use cases?
14:16:33 [francois]: giuseppe: of approved use cases, yes.
14:17:09 [francois]: ... other comments and discussions will be useful to provide context and clarifications but do not need to appear in this document
14:17:13 [kaz]: q?
14:17:29 [francois]: russell: ok.
14:17:39 [francois]: giuseppe: pretty similar to what other groups are doing.
14:17:41 [francois]: q?
14:17:49 [francois]: ack kaz
14:17:49 [kaz]: ack k
14:18:33 [francois]: kaz: Wanted to mention there's some tool to convert tracker issues into nice HTML pages. If needed, we can use that as well.
14:18:49 [francois]: giuseppe: not sure what the output will look like. Can you share a link?
14:19:31 [francois]: kaz: Many working groups use Tracker to handle last call comments. When that happens, we need to generate a disposition of comments.
14:19:37 [francois]: ... I'll share a link to an example.
14:19:43 [francois]: giuseppe: ok.
14:19:59 [francois]: ... If no other points, let's go on and have a look at use cases.
14:20:12 [giuseppep]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/DiscoveredContentHost
14:20:34 [francois]: Topic: Discovered Content Host Use Case
14:21:00 [kaz]: i/http/-> @@@ example HTML document generated by Tracker DB/
14:21:06 [kaz]: s/@@@/http://www.w3.org/Voice/Group/CallControl/ccxml-2005-editorscopy/CCXML-DoC.html
14:21:12 [francois]: jcd: very basic thing.
14:21:35 [francois]: giuseppe: are there any comment on the use case?
14:21:35 [rberkoff]: q+ rberkoff
14:21:51 [francois]: ... If not, we can just accept it
14:21:53 [giuseppep]: q?
14:21:56 [francois]: ack rberkoff
14:22:11 [francois]: russell: [sound chopped]
14:22:25 [francois]: ... What is the tracker number for the use case?
14:22:33 [francois]: ISSUE-5?
14:22:33 [trackbot]: ISSUE-5 -- Use Case: Discovered Content Host -- raised
14:22:33 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/5
14:22:33 [kaz]: issue-5?
14:22:33 [trackbot]: ISSUE-5 -- Use Case: Discovered Content Host -- raised
14:22:34 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/5
14:22:50 [jcdufourd]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/DiscoveredContentHost
14:22:53 [francois]: giuseppe: number 5
14:23:45 [francois]: ... Any comment on this?
14:24:10 [kaz]: q+
14:24:20 [francois]: ack kaz
14:24:51 [francois]: kaz: meta comment. We should add a link back to tracker from the wiki
14:25:14 [giuseppep]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/DiscoveredContentHost
14:25:19 [francois]: giuseppe: Right. I did it for some issues.
14:25:25 [kaz]: [ just updated http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/DiscoveredContentHost#ISSUE-5:_Discovered_content_host ]
14:26:09 [francois]: PROPOSED RESOLUTION: approve discovered content host and close issue-5
14:26:15 [kaz]: q+
14:26:21 [francois]: PROPOSED RESOLUTION: approve discovered content host use case and close issue-5
14:26:49 [francois]: kaz: From a user viewpoint this may be too detailed a description.
14:27:42 [francois]: giuseppe: I think this is enough to capture this kind of use cases, but do not have strong opinion.
14:27:53 [francois]: kaz: maybe later we'll need to classify the types of use cases.
14:28:04 [francois]: giuseppe: yes, we can do it later.
14:28:09 [francois]: +1 to close ISSUE-5
14:28:21 [francois]: RESOLUTION: approve discovered content host use case and close issue-5
14:28:29 [giuseppep]: ISSUE-4?
14:28:29 [trackbot]: ISSUE-4 -- Use Case: Service User Interface -- raised
14:28:29 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/4
14:28:32 [francois]: close ISSUE-5
14:28:33 [trackbot]: ISSUE-5 Use Case: Discovered Content Host closed
14:28:46 [francois]: Topic: Service User Interface (ISSUE-4)
14:29:14 [francois]: jcd: a bit more complex. It's about the service and the network remotely having a user interface as a document somewhere else.
14:29:26 [rberkoff]: r berkoff comments posted on tracker - please cover!
14:30:26 [francois]: ... [jcd going through use case description]
14:30:36 [kaz]: [ just updated http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/DiscoveredContentHost#Discovered_content_host to use the same format as ISSUE-4 wiki ]
14:30:49 [kaz]: q?
14:30:55 [kaz]: q-
14:30:56 [francois]: giuseppe: comments?
14:31:53 [francois]: ... Russell, your comment is that you'll propose a more detailed use case.
14:31:57 [francois]: ... Do you have a deadline?
14:32:21 [francois]: ... Do you want a clarification of the text or an extension?
14:32:32 [francois]: russell: by next call, and more an extension.
14:32:40 [francois]: giuseppe: ok, any other comments?
14:33:19 [francois]: ACTION: Russell to propose an extension of ISSUE-4 by 2011-05-17
14:33:19 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-25 - Propose an extension of ISSUE-4 by 2011-05-17 [on Russell Berkoff - due 2011-05-10].
14:33:37 [francois]: jcd: is there a difference you can talk about already or not?
14:34:32 [francois]: russell: let me review this use case again, having problems with this toolset.
14:34:51 [francois]: giuseppe: ok, let's postpone ISSUE-4 for now.
14:34:59 [francois]: ... We'll go through it next call or approve it offline.
14:35:05 [giuseppep]: ISSUE-6?
14:35:05 [trackbot]: ISSUE-6 -- Use Case: Document as a Service Provider -- raised
14:35:05 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/6
14:35:19 [francois]: Topic: Service Provide (ISSUE-6)
14:36:16 [kaz]: [ just updated http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/ServiceProvider#Service_Provider with link to issue-6 ]
14:36:16 [francois]: jcd: there, you have a document as a provider of a service. A particular machine access to something. For example, the machine is a TV set with Programme guide information. That information can be displayed on the TV, but there's no interface to display it on other devices.
14:36:50 [francois]: ... So a document running on the TV set could expose a service and provide the programme guide information to other devices.
14:37:11 [francois]: ... The way I describe it, the document is a windowless object that responds to other requests.
14:37:39 [giuseppep]: q?
14:37:39 [francois]: ... The document needs to be able to advertize itself, publish its interface, and then respond to messages from elsewhere.
14:37:48 [francois]: ... 3 functions.
14:38:31 [francois]: giuseppe: one comment on this. I'm not sure if two documents talking to each other is the same thing as this use case as you suggest.
14:38:59 [francois]: ... Two documents talking to each other is already possible.
14:39:14 [francois]: ... This use case is more complex than that.
14:39:33 [francois]: ... If the intent is more to post messages, then it would be better to rephrase it.
14:40:24 [francois]: jcd: the last part "respond to messages" is indeed posting messages when documents are pages. But the first two parts are not.
14:40:51 [francois]: ... A document may need to expose itself.
14:41:06 [kaz]: q?
14:41:20 [francois]: ... Here publishing its interface means exposing the list of messages that the document can respond to.
14:41:49 [francois]: giuseppe: my first comment would be to split this, because we might want to assign different priorities to different things.
14:42:28 [francois]: ... One thing that is missing is the justification for this. Exposing services is already covered by Web services in my view.
14:42:36 [francois]: ... So, what's missing?
14:42:58 [francois]: ... Exchanging messages between two documents in two different browsers on two different devices is missing, for instance.
14:43:06 [kaz]: ack Russell
14:44:33 [francois]: russell: [question on relation between use case and UPnP]
14:44:40 [kaz]: q+ to wonder if we have to mention HbbTV specifically here
14:44:56 [Zakim]: -MarkVickers
14:45:17 [francois]: russell: I have the feeling that what is described here is outside of regular UPnP usage
14:45:26 [francois]: giuseppe: so basically, the implementation part is not good here.
14:45:55 [kaz]: q?
14:47:13 [francois]: jcd: Basically, everything in there is implemented in UPnP and is interoperable with other possibilities. So I suspect that my language is in cause here. The first time that the TV set exposes itself as a device. It does that but in the background, exposing the service within the device.
14:47:26 [francois]: ... I felt this was too UPnP specific to fit in this document.
14:49:26 [francois]: russell: [comment on UPnP process scribe missed]
14:50:07 [francois]: giuseppe: In the end, do we need to remove something from the use case? The possible implementation part for instance?
14:50:39 [francois]: ack me
14:51:06 [francois]: zakim, mute me
14:51:06 [Zakim]: francois should now be muted
14:51:47 [kaz]: ack k
14:51:47 [Zakim]: kaz, you wanted to wonder if we have to mention HbbTV specifically here
14:52:01 [francois]: ACTION: jcd to clarify in the text of ISSUE-6 that the document is acting as a device and split in more atomic use cases
14:52:01 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - jcd
14:52:07 [francois]: ACTION: Jean-Claude to clarify in the text of ISSUE-6 that the document is acting as a device and split in more atomic use cases
14:52:07 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-26 - Clarify in the text of ISSUE-6 that the document is acting as a device and split in more atomic use cases [on Jean-Claude Dufourd - due 2011-05-10].
14:52:41 [francois]: kaz: In description section, you should probably describe the use case without mentioning existing solution such as HbbTV or UPnP.
14:53:00 [giuseppep]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/index.php?title=HNTF%2FHome_Network_TF_Discussions%2FServiceProvider%2Fcomment_gp1&diff=323&oldid=322
14:53:33 [francois]: giuseppe: In general, we should avoid having any reference to existing technologies, unless that's really part of the use case.
14:53:53 [francois]: ... I agree that it should be re-written into something that is more neutral.
14:54:21 [francois]: ... ok, so action on Jean-Claude and then we can discuss it again
14:54:40 [francois]: Topic: Service Migration (ISSUE-7)
14:54:43 [francois]: ISSUE-7?
14:54:43 [trackbot]: ISSUE-7 -- Use case: Service Migration -- raised
14:54:43 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/7
14:54:48 [giuseppep]: ISSUE-7?
14:54:48 [trackbot]: ISSUE-7 -- Use case: Service Migration -- raised
14:54:48 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/7
14:55:53 [francois]: jcd: document exposing a service and a document moving across devices. I think that the title is very bad actually.
14:57:01 [giuseppep]: q?
14:57:14 [francois]: ... It's actually a document rendering discovered content, e.g. media content. You want to move the document when a bigger device becomes available (e.g. a tablet).
14:57:20 [francois]: ... You want a seamless migration.
14:57:50 [francois]: ... One implementation is through a regular server. If you don't have a server, the second possibility is to put the intelligence on the page itself.
14:58:16 [francois]: ... When you want to migrate from the phone to the tablet, the page saves its state and transfers the content and the state to the other device.
14:58:42 [giuseppep]: q?
14:58:54 [francois]: giuseppe: there was a discussion on this on the mailing-list and I also had a comment.
14:58:57 [giuseppep]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/index.php?title=HNTF%2FHome_Network_TF_Discussions%2FServiceMigration%2Fcomments_gp1&diff=327&oldid=326
14:59:27 [francois]: giuseppe: I think it's more appropriate to talk about services migration
15:00:38 [francois]: jcd: the text describes document moving and the title describes what you're suggesting. Document moving is a simpler case.
15:01:33 [francois]: ... This use case should also be split into: document that moves around and there's no service in the UPnP sense, and then "service" moving which is more complex than the previous one.
15:02:10 [francois]: giuseppe: in this case, it's more content moving between HTML pages (video).
15:02:44 [francois]: jcd: if there is a state, the simplest state I can think of being the position in a movie, you have to pass it around.
15:02:55 [francois]: giuseppe: right, I guess you have to think about cookies as well.
15:03:34 [francois]: russell: I think I understand the scenario here.
15:04:01 [francois]: ... It involves an intermediary Web server.
15:04:15 [francois]: giuseppe: it's one possible implementation, I think.
15:04:45 [francois]: russell: I can share a link to the spec in CEA where this is described.
15:05:51 [kaz]: q+
15:06:00 [francois]: giuseppe: ok, I think I'm fine with the use case then.
15:06:10 [kaz]: q?
15:06:34 [francois]: jcd: would you like me to split it into document migration and service migration?
15:06:41 [Nilo]: Nilo has joined #webtv
15:06:42 [kaz]: ack k
15:06:43 [giuseppep]: q?
15:07:05 [francois]: ACTION: Jean-Claude to split ISSUE-7 into document migration and service migration
15:07:05 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-27 - Split ISSUE-7 into document migration and service migration [on Jean-Claude Dufourd - due 2011-05-10].
15:08:26 [kaz]: kaz: maybe your description implies multiple state transition
15:08:35 [francois]: giuseppe: ok, we'll get back to it next time then.
15:08:51 [giuseppep]: ISSUE-8?
15:08:51 [trackbot]: ISSUE-8 -- Use case: Service Distribution -- raised
15:08:51 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/8
15:08:53 [francois]: Topic: Service Distribution (ISSUE-8)
15:09:20 [kaz]: s/transition/transition that includes several states each of them corresponds to a specific device/
15:09:59 [francois]: jcd: Voting system on the TV set. Multiple viewers in front of TV. Today, we have to use the remote control and there's only one. Whereas viewers are likely to have personal phones.
15:10:21 [francois]: ... So, the TV set sends a message to the phones and suggests to activate a second document.
15:10:35 [francois]: ... The second document arrives and runs on the phone (with user's approval)
15:11:10 [francois]: ... Then the document running on the TV set exposes itself as a service and the document running on the phones discovers it (or the opposite).
15:11:22 [kaz]: [ just updated http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/ServiceDistribution#Service_Distribution with Issue ID ]
15:11:59 [francois]: ... The user browses the document on his phone. Once he votes, a message is sent to the TV set and the document on the TV set collects the votes and submits the votes.
15:12:11 [kaz]: s/... The/jcd: The/
15:12:42 [francois]: ... This use case suggests that a document gets suggested by the TV set to other devices
15:13:27 [francois]: giuseppe: Apart from the editorial comment to reword without specific reference to HbbTV, I think we should highlight the difference between this use case and the other ones.
15:14:09 [francois]: jcd: if you just have a standard for discovery, then you cannot do this.
15:14:53 [francois]: ... What you would need is something at a different level: you need a standard distribution mechanism.
15:15:13 [francois]: ... Besides, the devices should expose themselves as possible receivers.
15:15:49 [francois]: giuseppe: I'd like to discuss offline what other use cases this use case depends on.
15:16:31 [kaz]: q+
15:16:45 [kaz]: ack k
15:16:49 [francois]: jcd: OK, I can clarify a bit the dependencies and highlight the difference.
15:18:05 [giuseppep]: q?
15:18:18 [francois]: kaz: this use case is very much like "second screen" use case. If this means second-screen use case it's probably fine to have them here. Then we can classify requirements later on.
15:18:28 [francois]: giuseppe: ok, we'll come back to it.
15:18:50 [francois]: ACTION: Jean-Claude to clarify dependencies and differences on ISSUE-8
15:18:50 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-28 - Clarify dependencies and differences on ISSUE-8 [on Jean-Claude Dufourd - due 2011-05-10].
15:19:12 [francois]: Topic: 3-Box Model (ISSUE-10)
15:19:16 [francois]: ISSUE-10?
15:19:16 [trackbot]: ISSUE-10 -- 3-Box Model -- raised
15:19:16 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/10
15:19:50 [francois]: clarke: not sure that this is different enough from what Jean-Claude already proposed. This is the 3-box model used in DLNA.
15:20:43 [francois]: ... It describes connections between the different devices.
15:21:06 [francois]: ... I think it's similar to the Jean-Claude's Service User Interface but not sure it covers it all.
15:21:15 [Zakim]: -narm
15:21:20 [francois]: giuseppe: it makes sense to keep it as a separate use case.
15:21:40 [francois]: ... This one is more complex, Jean-Claude's one is more the 3-Box model.
15:21:51 [francois]: ... do we need more time to approve it?
15:21:57 [francois]: s/3-Box/2-Box/
15:21:59 [kaz]: q+
15:22:13 [francois]: kaz: does this imply more than 3?
15:23:06 [francois]: clarke: I suppose you could send content to multiple renderers simultaneously. That's one possibility. But 3-Box is the minimum.
15:23:18 [kaz]: ack k
15:23:28 [francois]: PROPOSED RESOLUTION: approve 3-Box Model use case and close ISSUE-10
15:23:33 [francois]: +1
15:23:49 [francois]: RESOLUTION: approve 3-Box Model use case and close ISSUE-10
15:23:53 [kaz]: [ just added link to tracker to http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/3-box-model#3-Box_Model ]
15:23:54 [francois]: close ISSUE-10
15:23:54 [trackbot]: ISSUE-10 3-Box Model closed
15:24:06 [francois]: giuseppe: I'll add it to the Requirements document, then.
15:24:40 [francois]: giuseppe: I'm not sure we have time to go through remaining issues and security concerns.
15:24:54 [francois]: ... I'd like to ask people to take some more time and comment on this.
15:25:12 [francois]: ... We have to have some security and privacy requirements in this document.
15:25:45 [francois]: ... Let's continue discussing on the mailing-list
15:25:51 [francois]: Topic: F2F
15:26:16 [francois]: giuseppe: for the home network TF, there's a proposal from Samsung to host a F2F in June
15:26:27 [francois]: ack me
15:26:37 [giuseppep]: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Discussions/FaceToFaceSchedule_2011
15:26:44 [giuseppep]: Proposed: HNTF-F2F 14-16 June 2011 - Samsung Electronics - (USA) San Jose, CA (*updated*)
15:28:21 [francois]: [several "ok" heard in the call]
15:28:58 [francois]: giuseppe: if there's no objection within a week, we can consider it approved.
15:29:18 [kaz]: kaz has joined #webtv
15:29:55 [francois]: giuseppe: we're still discussing on the workshop, it probably won't be before September.
15:30:09 [francois]: ... Anything else to discuss?
15:30:36 [narm]: narm has joined #webtv
15:30:54 [francois]: ... Basically, we'll go over open issues in these calls. Next time, we'll just go by number. So raise an issue if you want to discuss something.
15:31:06 [francois]: ... Next call on the 17th but I'm not available.
15:31:18 [francois]: ... Can we move it?
15:31:30 [francois]: ... Either to next week or 24th?
15:31:59 [francois]: russell: A short questionnaire to settle this?
15:32:21 [francois]: giuseppe: yes, we can do this.
15:32:31 [francois]: ... We'll decide on this during this week.
15:32:35 [francois]: ... AOB?
15:32:44 [francois]: [Call adjourned]
15:32:45 [Zakim]: -clarke
15:32:46 [Zakim]: -csderstr
15:32:46 [Zakim]: -Panu
15:32:48 [Zakim]: -jcdufourd
15:32:48 [Zakim]: -Russell
15:32:51 [Zakim]: -Kazuyuki
15:32:53 [Zakim]: -Giuseppe
15:32:53 [Zakim]: -DongHyun
15:32:55 [Zakim]: -francois
15:33:20 [francois]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:33:20 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/03-webtv-minutes.html francois
15:33:44 [Zakim]: -Hiroyuki_Aizu
15:33:45 [Zakim]: Team_(webtv)14:00Z has ended
15:33:47 [Zakim]: Attendees were +1.760.705.aaaa, +46.1.34.79.aabb, +1.650.483.aacc, Kazuyuki, francois, csderstr, +1.503.705.aadd, narm, jcdufourd, clarke, Russell, MarkVickers, +82.26.91.2.aaee,
15:33:50 [Zakim]: ... DongHyun, Giuseppe, Hiroyuki_Aizu, Panu
15:39:56 [aizu]: aizu has left #webtv
15:40:33 [francois]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:40:33 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/03-webtv-minutes.html francois