13:46:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:46:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/20-dap-irc
13:46:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:46:48 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:46:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:46:50 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
13:46:51 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:46:51 <trackbot> Date: 20 April 2011
13:47:20 <fjh> Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:47:24 <fjh> Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:47:41 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Apr/0097.html
13:48:45 <fjh> Regrets+ Rich_Tibbett
13:53:08 <Kangchan> Kangchan has joined #dap
13:54:11 <dom> Regrets+ Niklas_Widell
13:56:50 <fjh> zakim, code?
13:56:50 <Zakim> the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), fjh
13:57:38 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:57:45 <Zakim> +??P7
13:57:48 <fjh> zakim, ?? is me
13:57:48 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
13:58:50 <kyungtak> kyungtak has joined #dap
13:59:19 <JonathanJ> JonathanJ has joined #DAP
13:59:35 <kyungtak> Present+ Kyung-Tak_Lee
13:59:49 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
13:59:54 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
14:00:52 <Zakim> +Dom
14:01:07 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:01:09 <Zakim> +??P13
14:01:33 <dom> Zakim, ??P13 is darobin
14:01:33 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
14:01:35 <darobin> Zakim, ??P13 is me
14:01:35 <Zakim> I already had ??P13 as darobin, darobin
14:01:45 <dom> Present+ Da_Robin_Berjon
14:01:50 <Zakim> +??P12
14:01:59 <dom> Zakim, who's noisy?
14:02:09 <Kangchan> zakim, ??P12 is Kangchan
14:02:09 <Zakim> +Kangchan; got it
14:02:10 <Zakim> dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: fjh (15%), ??P12 (33%), darobin (77%)
14:02:10 <Zakim> +??P18
14:02:14 <Zakim> +lgombos
14:02:28 <Suresh> Suresh has joined #dap
14:02:29 <lgombos> Present+ Laszlo_Gombos
14:02:38 <Suresh> Present+ Suresh_Chitturi
14:02:40 <Kangchan> Present+ Kangchan_Lee
14:02:55 <kyungtak> Zakim, ??P18 is me
14:02:55 <Zakim> +kyungtak; got it
14:03:13 <Zakim> + +1.972.373.aaaa
14:03:19 <Suresh> zakim, aaaa is Suresh
14:03:19 <Zakim> +Suresh; got it
14:03:52 <Claes> Claes has joined #dap
14:04:21 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:04:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, Dom, darobin, Kangchan, kyungtak, lgombos, Suresh
14:04:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see Claes, Suresh, Dzung_Tran, JonathanJ, kyungtak, Kangchan, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, fjh, richt, lgombos, wmaslowski, ilkka, ingmar, dom, trackbot
14:04:38 <bryan_sullivan> bryan_sullivan has joined #dap
14:04:57 <Zakim> +Bryan_Sullivan
14:05:13 <bryan_sullivan> present+ Bryan_Sullivan
14:05:49 <Suresh> ScribeNick: Suresh
14:05:56 <Suresh> Topic: Administrative
14:06:10 <Suresh> No call next week (April 27th)
14:06:34 <JonathanJ> Present+ Jonathan_Jeon
14:06:36 <fjh> 19-21 July F2F logistics, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2011Apr/0000.html
14:06:36 <fjh> messaging published, http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-messaging-api-20110414/
14:06:36 <fjh> HTML Media Capture, new approach published,  http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-html-media-capture-20110414/
14:06:37 <fjh> calendar FPWD published, http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-calendar-api-20110419/
14:06:37 <fjh> powerbox/introducer, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Apr/0087.html (Tyler)
14:06:59 <Zakim> +claes
14:07:05 <Zakim> +cathy_
14:07:11 <Suresh> Topic: Minutes approval
14:07:14 <Cathy> Cathy has joined #dap
14:07:28 <Claes> Present+ Claes_Nilsson
14:07:29 <Suresh> RESOLUTION: Minutes from 13 April 2011 are approved
14:07:30 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Apr/att-0077/minutes-2011-04-13.html
14:07:38 <dom> Regrets+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:07:42 <Cathy> Present+ Cathy_Chan
14:07:43 <Suresh> Topic: Charter Draft
14:07:44 <fjh> Last request for review and proposed changes,  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Apr/0085.html
14:07:57 <Suresh> q+
14:08:03 <fjh> ack suresh
14:08:18 <fjh> Proposed charter (revised) http://www.w3.org/2010/11/DeviceAPICharter.html
14:08:54 <Suresh> Suresh: are we looking at getting members to join the DAP, given that we have it in the charter?
14:09:23 <Suresh> Dom: If we do not have them in the group, we will have to revise the charter
14:09:50 <Suresh> fjh: on the process, is there caught during the AC review?
14:10:26 <Suresh> Dom: yes, I would bring this up during the reveiw
14:10:39 <Suresh> Suresh: i would prefer that we resolve this before we approve the charter
14:11:53 <Suresh> dom: Claes, do you have any update on your co-editors?
14:12:34 <Suresh> Claes: They are aware of the problem
14:13:22 <bryan_sullivan> q+
14:13:26 <fjh> ack bryan
14:14:09 <Suresh> bryan: we are going to have similar concerns with other API, such as sensors API, if we don't get Google hre are we going to get blocked?
14:14:31 <Suresh> fjh: it is legitimate...the members need to be aware of this
14:15:33 <Suresh> dom: web intents/introducer can be done in a number of ways, but if we couldn't due to IPR issues....we have to look into it
14:16:13 <Suresh> dom: re sensors, i don't believe there is a risk, but having google is good
14:17:01 <Suresh> fjh: what you are saying is charter is general enough...and doesn't commit the group to work on them
14:18:18 <Suresh> bryan: the point is that we have changed the charter to get a broad membership....i'm not sure on the IPR implications
14:18:44 <Suresh> bryan: if they don't get involved not sure how far we can go...
14:19:15 <Suresh> fjh: should be make a formal decision on the charter?
14:20:42 <Suresh> dom: i think we should take a resolution
14:21:01 <fjh> WG can approve draft charter with resolution and understanding that AC will review and discuss IPR/membership issues
14:21:10 <Suresh> Suresh: it is subject to the discussion we just had...do we take these issues at the AC level or at the group level
14:21:30 <Suresh> robin: we should take it at the AC level
14:22:07 <Suresh> robin: from the group's view, we are proposing the topics and the legal issues should be handled at the AC level
14:22:16 <fjh> zakim, mute me
14:22:16 <Zakim> fjh should now be muted
14:22:27 <dom> Zakim, mute Suresh
14:22:27 <Zakim> Suresh should now be muted
14:22:30 <dom> Zakim, unmute Suresh
14:22:30 <Zakim> Suresh should no longer be muted
14:22:32 <dom> Zakim, mute me
14:22:33 <Zakim> Dom should now be muted
14:22:35 <dom> Zakim, unmute me
14:22:35 <Zakim> Dom should no longer be muted
14:22:38 <Zakim> -Bryan_Sullivan
14:22:40 <fjh> zakim, who is making noise?
14:22:47 <fjh> zakim, unmute me
14:22:54 <Zakim> fjh should no longer be muted
14:22:56 <dom> Zakim, who's noisy?
14:22:58 <Zakim> fjh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Dom (27%), fjh (35%), Suresh (47%), darobin (14%), kyungtak (35%)
14:23:02 <dom> Zakim, mute kyungtak
14:23:09 <Zakim> +Bryan_Sullivan
14:23:13 <Zakim> kyungtak should now be muted
14:23:15 <Zakim> dom, listening for 15 seconds I heard sound from the following: Dom (10%), fjh (49%), Suresh (9%)
14:23:19 <kyungtak> q+
14:23:38 <dom> ack kyungtak
14:23:42 <fjh> ack kyungtak
14:23:48 <darobin> kyungtak: there's a lot of noise when you're not muted
14:24:08 <darobin> s/kyungtak: /kyungtak, /
14:24:22 <bryan_sullivan> On the earlier point re Web Introducer: In the rechartering we are trying to create an environment attractive to participation of the browser vendors. Hopefully actions are taking place in the background to make that happen. Basing DAP APIs on APIs of non-members is problematic, maybe even if just based upon patterns (but hopefully not). This goes for Web Introducer and Sensor as well. At this point there is an available API draft
14:24:22 <bryan_sullivan> (http://bondi.omtp.org/1.5/PWD-2/sensor.htm) which is RF (as part of the BONDI project). I would like to consider the Google APIs as patterns or baselines but we need Google's involvement in the group to move forward on that, IMO.
14:25:12 <Suresh> kyungtak: have some comments
14:25:31 <Suresh> dom: it might be better to take the comments at the AC review
14:25:50 <Suresh> kyungtak: will submit the comments on the mailing list
14:25:50 <dom> Zakim, mute kyungtak
14:25:50 <Zakim> kyungtak should now be muted
14:25:53 <fjh> share any comment on the public mailing list, but at this point to be treated as part of AC review
14:26:28 <dom> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The Working Group requests to be rechartered under the new draft charter at http://www.w3.org/2010/11/DeviceAPICharter.html
14:27:19 <Suresh> fjh: not sure how we want to raise the concerns in the group in additon to this resolution
14:28:08 <Suresh> dom: the charter will accompany a "activity proposal" where i can state the concerns
14:28:12 <dom> ACTION: Dom to start DAP rechartering process
14:28:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-388 - Start DAP rechartering process [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2011-04-27].
14:28:56 <Suresh> RESOLUTION: The Working Group requests to be rechartered under the new drfat charter at http://www.w3.org/2010/11/DeviceAPICharter.html
14:29:09 <Suresh> Topic: Battery Status Event
14:29:19 <fjh> q+
14:29:32 <Suresh> robin: The CfC ends today, any concerns?
14:29:42 <fjh> ack fjh
14:29:58 <fjh> Minor edit could be handled during publication
14:29:59 <Suresh> fjh: there was comment on the list....
14:30:00 <dom> +1
14:30:05 <fjh> +1
14:30:09 <darobin> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Publish Battery
14:30:14 <Suresh> robin: this can be handled later
14:30:29 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to handle FPWD of Battery
14:30:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-389 - Handle FPWD of Battery [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-04-27].
14:30:38 <Suresh> RESOLUTION: Publish FPWD of Battery Status specification
14:31:17 <Suresh> Topic: Network Connection
14:31:29 <Suresh> robin: we have a draft in CVS
14:31:35 <darobin> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/netinfo/
14:31:40 <fjh> update, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Apr/0064.html (Suresh)
14:31:41 <fjh> feedback, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Apr/0086.html 
14:32:12 <Suresh> robin: there are a few comments
14:35:04 <Suresh> Suresh: 3 open issues, roaming, 'online' vs 'networkChange' event, and changing "unsigned short" to 'short"
14:35:26 <bryan_sullivan> q+
14:35:32 <Suresh> robin: is roaming a real concern?
14:36:03 <Suresh> dom: does it create a privacy concern/fishing attack?
14:36:31 <dom> s/fi/phi/
14:36:33 <Suresh> dom: it may be sufficient to note that it is under discussion
14:38:03 <darobin> ack bryan_sullivan 
14:38:19 <Suresh> Suresh: 'online' is totally different from the semantics, we should not resue it becasue an implementation uses it
14:38:53 <Suresh> bryan: agree
14:39:55 <Suresh> bryan: we should tell what network you are on, and determination of roaming is implementation specific
14:40:16 <Suresh> suresh: this is exactly the proposal in the draft, i.e not to have roaming
14:40:51 <Suresh> but instead just have fields to indicate the current and home n/w
14:41:39 <darobin> proposed idea from bryan_sullivan: use a single networkName field that gives the mobile network identifier on mobile networks, the SSID on wifi, etc.
14:41:48 <bryan_sullivan> +1
14:42:35 <bryan_sullivan> mnc, mcc are important for PLMN
14:42:42 <bryan_sullivan> ssid for WIFI
14:42:57 <dom> (I would have strong privacy concerns in providing freely WIFI SSIDs)
14:43:46 <darobin> (me too, but if we have a working technical solution we can at least agree on what we'll drop over privacy concerns :)
14:44:35 <fjh> sharing SSID is a bad idea from privacy perspective, isn't it
14:44:59 <Suresh> dom: raises concerns on exposing SSID
14:45:36 <Suresh> bryan: generally WiFi is a flat rate service...and may not be as important
14:46:09 <darobin> [can we 1) agree to a few changes to make, 2) to flag a number of issues, and 3) ship a CfC for that?]
14:46:36 <dom> +1 to darobin
14:46:51 <Suresh> +1
14:50:10 <Suresh> robin: document issues, (type: short vs srting), add event, and a flag to note the network name
14:50:10 <Zakim> -Dom
14:50:14 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to make the mentioned changes and push out a CfC
14:50:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-390 - Make the mentioned changes and push out a CfC [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-04-27].
14:50:16 <darobin> dom?
14:50:54 <Zakim> +Dom
14:50:58 <Suresh> Topic: HTML Media Capture
14:52:18 <Suresh> We published the draft and sent a msg to HTML for feedback, response from Ian Hickson questioning the new addition
14:53:31 <Suresh> dom: Mozilla provided comments as well....some work under way
14:53:47 <Suresh> robin: re Ian, we can point to previous discussion on this
14:54:01 <dom> ACTION: Dom to look at overlap between MediaFileData and HTMLVideoElement
14:54:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-391 - Look at overlap between MediaFileData and HTMLVideoElement [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2011-04-27].
14:54:59 <Suresh> Topic: Calendar
14:55:07 <Suresh> robin: take them offline
14:55:13 <fjh> comments on publication, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Apr/0096.html
14:55:28 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:55:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/20-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:55:34 <Suresh> Topic: Messaging
14:55:55 <Suresh> dom: a comment that prefers the previous version of the API
14:56:48 <fjh> s/dom\?//
14:57:04 <fjh> Topic: Adjourn
14:57:28 <Suresh> no call next week
14:57:35 <fjh> Next call in 2 weeks, 4 May.
14:57:44 <dom> ACTION: Dom to create F2F registration for Paris meeting
14:57:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-392 - Create F2F registration for Paris meeting [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2011-04-27].
14:58:07 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:58:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/20-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:58:15 <Zakim> -Kangchan
14:58:17 <Zakim> -darobin
14:58:19 <Zakim> -Dom
14:58:20 <Zakim> -kyungtak
14:58:21 <Zakim> -Bryan_Sullivan
14:58:23 <Zakim> -Suresh
14:58:23 <Zakim> -fjh
14:58:25 <Zakim> -cathy_
14:58:51 <Zakim> -claes
14:59:08 <fjh_> fjh_ has joined #dap
15:00:18 <Zakim> -lgombos
15:00:20 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:00:21 <Zakim> Attendees were fjh, Dom, darobin, Kangchan, lgombos, kyungtak, +1.972.373.aaaa, Suresh, Bryan_Sullivan, claes, cathy_
15:14:18 <JonathanJ> JonathanJ has left #DAP
15:35:50 <fabrice> fabrice has joined #dap
15:40:27 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
16:44:53 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dap