15:05:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
15:05:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-irc
15:05:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:05:24 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdb2rdf
15:05:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
15:05:26 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 55 minutes
15:05:27 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:05:27 <trackbot> Date: 19 April 2011
15:13:14 <Marcelo> Marcelo has joined #rdb2rdf
15:55:53 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf
15:55:58 <mhausenblas> mhausenblas has joined #rdb2rdf
15:56:16 <mhausenblas> trackbot, start telecon
15:56:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:56:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
15:56:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
15:56:21 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:56:21 <trackbot> Date: 19 April 2011
15:56:35 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Apr/0015.html
15:56:40 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
15:57:06 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:57:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:57:20 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:57:34 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Boris
15:57:40 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Soeren
15:57:45 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Percy
15:57:49 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:57:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:59:39 <cygri_> cygri_ has joined #rdb2rdf
15:59:57 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
16:00:05 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa
16:00:22 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is me
16:00:22 <Zakim> +mhausenblas; got it
16:00:39 <cygri_> zakim, i'm with mhausenblas
16:00:39 <Zakim> +cygri_; got it
16:00:42 <Zakim> + +1.314.394.aabb
16:00:51 <Seema> Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:00:54 <Marcelo> I am on irc, I will call in a few minutes
16:01:05 <dmcneil> dmcneil has joined #RDB2RDF
16:01:12 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aabb is dmcneil 
16:01:12 <Zakim> +dmcneil; got it
16:01:25 <Zakim> +Souri
16:01:29 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Ashok
16:01:36 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:01:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:01:38 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:01:46 <Zakim> +??P3
16:01:52 <betehess> Zakim, call Alexandre
16:01:52 <Zakim> I am sorry, betehess; I do not know a number for Alexandre
16:01:53 <ivan> zakim, ??P3 is ivan
16:01:54 <Zakim> +ivan; got it
16:01:57 <betehess> Zakim, call betehess
16:01:57 <Zakim> I am sorry, betehess; I do not know a number for betehess
16:02:09 <nunolopes> nunolopes has joined #RDB2RDF
16:02:16 <mhausenblas> Zakim, nunolopes is with me
16:02:16 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
16:02:24 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:02:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, dmcneil, Souri, ivan
16:02:25 <Zakim> mhausenblas has cygri_, nunolopes
16:02:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see nunolopes, Souri, dmcneil, Seema, cygri_, mhausenblas, juansequeda, Marcelo, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, betehess, MacTed, LeeF, cygri, iv_an_ru_, trackbot, ericP
16:02:47 <cygri> zakim, who is here?
16:02:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, dmcneil, Souri, ivan
16:02:48 <Zakim> mhausenblas has cygri_, nunolopes
16:02:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see nunolopes, Souri, dmcneil, Seema, cygri, mhausenblas, juansequeda, Marcelo, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, betehess, MacTed, LeeF, iv_an_ru_, trackbot, ericP
16:03:01 <cygri> zakim, i'm with mhausenblas
16:03:01 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
16:03:09 <Zakim> +Alexandre
16:03:17 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
16:03:17 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
16:03:19 <Zakim> +EricP
16:03:35 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aacc
16:03:44 <ericP> scribenick: ericP
16:03:50 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aacc is Seema 
16:03:50 <Zakim> +Seema; got it
16:05:02 <ericP> topic: admin
16:05:05 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2011/04/12-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:05:07 <cygri> +1
16:05:09 <betehess> +1
16:05:11 <ivan> +1
16:05:13 <ericP> APPROVED
16:05:23 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:05:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:05:56 <ericP> RESOLUTION: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2011/04/12-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:06:21 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:06:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:07:23 <ericP> topic: F2F at TPAC
16:07:24 <ivan> 31 st October - 4 November, Santa Clara
16:07:30 <mhausenblas> see http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/
16:08:18 <juansequeda> semtech?
16:08:20 <juansequeda> in june?
16:08:41 <mhausenblas> juansequeda, it was not so much about the F2F but about TPAC ;)
16:08:42 <ericP> cygri: there's a potential semi-conflict with RDF WG
16:09:00 <ericP> ivan: we should see RDF poll results tomorrow
16:09:34 <mhausenblas> Michael: I agree that we should plan a F2F independent of TPAC 
16:09:55 <ericP> ... chicken and egg with RDF
16:10:00 <Zakim> + +575737aadd
16:10:02 <ericP> ... do we *need* a f2f?
16:10:10 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aadd is juansequeda 
16:10:10 <Zakim> +juansequeda; got it
16:10:19 <ericP> mhausenblas: f2f's productive if folks are prepared to close issues
16:11:03 <ericP> ... if we can get editors to resolve stuff, we might need two days
16:11:12 <ericP> cygri: when in LC?
16:11:42 <ericP> ... charter says "T+18[months]"; when did we start?
16:11:52 <ericP> ... [group arithmetic break]
16:11:59 <ericP> ... we should already be at LC
16:12:09 <Zakim> + +1.512.232.aaee
16:12:18 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaee is juansequeda 
16:12:18 <Zakim> +juansequeda; got it
16:12:28 <Zakim> + +1.562.686.aaff
16:12:42 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Hausenblas figure out runtime and if charter extension is necessary
16:12:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-117 - Figure out runtime and if charter extension is necessary [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2011-04-26].
16:12:47 <Zakim> -juansequeda
16:13:25 <ericP> ... first meetings in Oct 2009, so T+18 is Apr 2011
16:13:42 <Marcelo> Zakim, aaff is Marcelo
16:13:42 <Zakim> +Marcelo; got it
16:14:03 <ericP> ... if we don't have LC by Nov, something is wrong
16:15:17 <ericP> ivan: if we get wide review by don't get many comments, we don't need an F2F
16:15:37 <ericP> ... if we get lots of comments, an F2F in Nov is appropriate
16:15:52 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:15:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, dmcneil, Souri, ivan, Alexandre, EricP, Seema, juansequeda.a, Marcelo
16:15:55 <Zakim> mhausenblas has cygri_, nunolopes, cygri
16:15:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see nunolopes, Souri, dmcneil, Seema, cygri, mhausenblas, Marcelo, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, betehess, MacTed, LeeF, iv_an_ru_, trackbot, ericP
16:16:34 <ericP> ... we should formulate amoungst ourselves a proposal for the WG.
16:16:56 <ericP> ... TPAC is the week after ISWC
16:17:18 <ericP> mhausenblas: we also have EU project calls/submissiond deadlines around Nov
16:17:27 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf
16:17:35 <ericP> juansequeda: how about at ISWC?
16:18:25 <ericP> ... Semtech? probably too early
16:18:36 <ericP> ivan: yeah, too early, and i'm overloaded
16:19:29 <juansequeda> ericP, in Santa Clara, CA
16:21:30 <ericP> Souri: SPARQL f2f [virtual video circuit] was very effective
16:21:57 <ericP> ivan: won't have equipment at ISWC or TPAC
16:22:55 <ericP> you can relocate some of the people all of the time and you can relocate all of the people some of the time, but you can't relocate all of the people all of the time
16:23:11 <ericP> (unless you're Stalin)
16:24:03 <ericP> ivan: RDFa F2F useful to coincide with HTML meeting
16:25:24 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Hausenblas to put the F2F meeting onto 2011-04-26 agenda
16:25:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-118 - Put the F2F meeting onto 2011-04-26 agenda [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2011-04-26].
16:25:26 <ericP> mhausenblas: right, makes sense in a wider context with e.g. RDF meeting
16:26:40 <ericP> topic: Outstanding Issues
16:27:09 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/open
16:27:35 <mhausenblas> scribenick: nunolopes 
16:27:43 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-18?
16:27:43 <trackbot> ISSUE-18 -- Allow SQL queries to be reused in a mapping -- open
16:27:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/18
16:28:05 <nunolopes> Souri: multiple triples map could use the same SQL query
16:28:24 <nunolopes> … we could associate a uri with a SQL string and then use it in multiple triplesMap
16:28:37 <nunolopes> … we will come up with a proposal for that
16:29:08 <Zakim> -EricP
16:29:36 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Souri to propose a solution for ISSUE-18 (SQL string/multiple triplesMap) - new property 
16:29:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-119 - Propose a solution for ISSUE-18 (SQL string/multiple triplesMap) - new property  [on Souripriya Das - due 2011-04-26].
16:30:09 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-19?
16:30:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-19 -- Reuse a SQL query as a sub-query -- open
16:30:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/19
16:31:16 <nunolopes> Souri: this issue might cause problems with the constructions of select clauses
16:31:43 <nunolopes> … are we going to use it that much that justifies the complexity?
16:32:05 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: in this case we should pose the question back to david that raised the issue
16:32:26 <cygri> q+
16:32:31 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
16:32:34 <nunolopes> David: it is very usefull, but I agree it is too complicated to get into the spec at this time
16:32:52 <nunolopes> cygri: I'd be curiours to know how you handled this
16:33:15 <nunolopes> david: we allow to give a subquery a name, and in a nother query you can use that name 
16:33:38 <nunolopes> cygri: in the SQL query you can refer by name a query otherwise defined in the query?
16:33:55 <nunolopes> … implicitly defining a view in the mapping file and using it in the queries
16:34:18 <nunolopes> david: it's very usefull to avoid duplicating code
16:34:46 <nunolopes> cygri: you said it's too complicated but maybe we should propose something to assing a uri to a subquery?
16:34:58 <nunolopes> … it seems that in terms of the language it wont' be too complicated
16:35:09 <nunolopes> … altough might make implementations harder
16:35:42 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: is someone willing to write up something on this?
16:36:01 <nunolopes> … otherwise we postpone it
16:36:23 <nunolopes> cygri: can we revisit this after issue 18 has been resolved?
16:36:42 <Souri> +1 to postponing Issue-19
16:36:44 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Postpone ISSUE-19 and make ISSUE-18 block it
16:36:56 <Souri> +1
16:37:05 <cygri> +1
16:37:28 <nunolopes> RESOLVED: accepted to postpone ISSUE-19 and make ISSUE-18 a blocker
16:37:34 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-25?
16:37:34 <trackbot> ISSUE-25 -- Including direct mapping constructs in R2RML mappings -- open
16:37:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/25
16:38:18 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:38:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:39:15 <nunolopes> david: this issue is about allowing to use direct mapping constructs in R2RML mappings
16:39:55 <nunolopes> juansequeda: should a user start with a blank mapping file then?
16:40:14 <mhausenblas> q?
16:40:22 <nunolopes> david: we have an equivalnet to the direct mapping, but we find that custumers don't use it
16:40:37 <nunolopes> … they start with a domain ontology
16:41:06 <nunolopes> …. you can start with the direct mapping and then edit it
16:41:24 <nunolopes> … instead of making the constructs of the direct mapping in the R2RML 
16:41:40 <nunolopes> … so the engine doesn't need to know the direct mapping
16:42:13 <nunolopes> … I'm objecting to having only a partial R2RML and the rest coming from the direct maping
16:42:22 <nunolopes> juansequeda: I would object to that too
16:42:40 <nunolopes> … is that mentioned somewhere?
16:43:14 <nunolopes> Souri: what I recall is that a mapping should be specified in an incremental way
16:43:29 <nunolopes> … start with the direct mapping and move from there
16:43:56 <nunolopes> …. but then R2RML would have to process also the parts that are direct mapping
16:44:15 <nunolopes> … I understand that this puts more burden on the engine
16:44:25 <mhausenblas> q+
16:44:29 <nunolopes> … as opposed to a more manual way of doing this
16:45:06 <nunolopes> … i'm ok with the proposed approach at the moment
16:45:19 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
16:45:25 <nunolopes> … when R2RML becomes more stable we can think of this hibrid approach
16:45:27 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:45:27 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:45:28 <mhausenblas> ack me
16:45:30 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:45:30 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:45:55 <MacTed> (how far to future has this group been extended, so I can adjust my calendar reminders?)
16:45:58 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: is this a question about coupling between direct mapping and R2RML? 
16:46:32 <betehess> is the Direct Mapping expressed in term of R2RML?
16:46:51 <nunolopes> david: it's fine if the direct mapping is completely specified
16:47:17 <nunolopes> … the problem is if it is not and we assume it should be complemented by constrcuts from the direct mapping
16:47:21 <betehess> no
16:47:34 <nunolopes> david: leaving the spec as is satisfies my requeirement
16:47:56 <nunolopes> Souri: yes, this feature is not reflected in the document
16:48:47 <ivan> q+
16:48:59 <nunolopes> cygri: issue 25 was actually proposed by souren
16:49:31 <nunolopes> ivan: yes, souren was in favour of the approach that david is now objecting
16:49:48 <nunolopes> … so we should let souren respond before closing this issue
16:49:49 <ivan> s/souren/soeren/
16:50:10 <Souri> +1 to waiting for Soeren
16:50:43 <ivan> q-
16:50:43 <mhausenblas> ack ivan 
16:51:00 <nunolopes> cygri: I'd propose david writes an email to the list about this and would give soeren a chance to respond
16:51:30 <mhausenblas> ACTION: David to write a proposal to the WG list (close ISSUE-25) giving Soeren the opportunity to react
16:51:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-120 - Write a proposal to the WG list (close ISSUE-25) giving Soeren the opportunity to react [on David McNeil - due 2011-04-26].
16:51:34 <mhausenblas> q?
16:51:49 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-29?
16:51:49 <trackbot> ISSUE-29 -- Require blank node and IRI identifier expressions to produce strings -- open
16:51:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/29
16:52:37 <Souri> didn't Eric work on it?
16:52:42 <nunolopes> david: if we can have an expression that evaluates to a bnode or uri , should evaluate to a string to I can use string operations on these
16:52:57 <nunolopes> Souri: I think eric suggested we cast it to string
16:53:49 <nunolopes> david: I have some reservations about relying on database specific behaviour for this
16:53:58 <nunolopes> … for instance formatting dates, etc
16:54:08 <nunolopes> … doesn't seem like the best solution for me
16:54:19 <nunolopes> Souri: maybe we should wait for eric on this
16:54:54 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: can you take an action to write an email? to have a an action associated with the issue
16:55:27 <cygri> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Mar/0090.html
16:57:41 <nunolopes> Souri: I think we still need a discussion on this
16:57:58 <nunolopes> … I can take an action to follow up on this
16:58:30 <nunolopes> Souri: we want the R2RML processor to enforce the type of the expression?
16:58:39 <nunolopes> … we may not even know the type beforehand
16:58:52 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Souri to follow-up on Eric's post regarding ISSUE-29 concerning string casts
16:58:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-121 - Follow-up on Eric's post regarding ISSUE-29 concerning string casts [on Souripriya Das - due 2011-04-26].
17:00:09 <nunolopes> Souri: so we could check the type of the columns and possible trhow an error..
17:00:33 <mhausenblas> ACTION-121?
17:00:33 <trackbot> ACTION-121 -- Souripriya Das to follow-up on Eric's post regarding ISSUE-29 concerning string casts -- due 2011-04-26 -- OPEN
17:00:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/121
17:00:58 <nunolopes> cygri: personally I don't like this, from a user's point of view I excepct that if the implemenetation complains this should be a string and I have to explicitly cast it as a string
17:01:07 <mhausenblas> Michael: Souri, if you look into the ACTION-121, there is the pointer to Eric's post
17:01:12 <nunolopes> … the user might think it's a job for the engine
17:01:21 <nunolopes> david: there's formatting decisions to be made
17:01:56 <nunolopes> cygri: my feeling is that in the SQL spec specficies a canonical way to represent a string
17:02:06 <nunolopes> … I think eric was supposed to look into this
17:02:27 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: let's continue this on the list, we're out of time
17:02:35 <Zakim> -Souri
17:02:37 <Zakim> -dmcneil
17:02:37 <Zakim> -Alexandre
17:02:38 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
17:02:39 <Zakim> -Seema
17:02:39 <ivan> zakim, drop me
17:02:40 <Zakim> ivan is being disconnected
17:02:40 <Zakim> -ivan
17:02:41 <Zakim> -MacTed
17:02:45 <Zakim> -juansequeda.a
17:02:46 <Zakim> -Marcelo
17:02:46 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
17:02:48 <Zakim> Attendees were +3539149aaaa, mhausenblas, cygri_, +1.314.394.aabb, dmcneil, Souri, ivan, nunolopes, cygri, Alexandre, EricP, +1.603.897.aacc, Seema, +575737aadd, juansequeda,
17:02:51 <Zakim> ... +1.512.232.aaee, +1.562.686.aaff, Marcelo, MacTed
17:03:29 <mhausenblas> Michael: Next week Ashok will chair, continuing with ISSUE-32
17:03:39 <mhausenblas> [meeting adjourned]
17:04:21 <nunolopes> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:04:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-minutes.html nunolopes
17:05:11 <mhausenblas> trackbot, end telecon
17:05:11 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:05:11 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:05:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:05:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-minutes.html trackbot
17:05:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:05:13 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-actions.rdf :
17:05:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Hausenblas figure out runtime and if charter extension is necessary [1]
17:05:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-irc#T16-12-42
17:05:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Hausenblas to put the F2F meeting onto 2011-04-26 agenda [2]
17:05:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-irc#T16-25-24
17:05:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Souri to propose a solution for ISSUE-18 (SQL string/multiple triplesMap) - new property  [3]
17:05:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-irc#T16-29-36
17:05:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: David to write a proposal to the WG list (close ISSUE-25) giving Soeren the opportunity to react [4]
17:05:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-irc#T16-51-30
17:05:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Souri to follow-up on Eric's post regarding ISSUE-29 concerning string casts [5]
17:05:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/04/19-rdb2rdf-irc#T16-58-52