IRC log of mediafrag on 2011-04-13
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 09:02:12 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/13-mediafrag-irc
- 09:02:14 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 09:02:14 [Zakim]
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- 09:02:16 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
- 09:02:16 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
- 09:02:17 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
- 09:02:17 [trackbot]
- Date: 13 April 2011
- 09:02:51 [Zakim]
- IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
- 09:03:00 [Zakim]
- + +46.3.13.48.aaaa
- 09:03:04 [foolip]
- Zakim, I am aaaa
- 09:03:04 [Zakim]
- +foolip; got it
- 09:03:29 [Zakim]
- + +33.4.93.00.aabb
- 09:03:50 [raphael]
- Chair: Raphael
- 09:04:00 [raphael]
- Regrets: Erik, Thomas
- 09:04:14 [Zakim]
- + +329331aacc
- 09:04:16 [Zakim]
- +Yves
- 09:04:20 [raphael]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2011Apr/0042.html
- 09:04:40 [jackjansen]
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- 09:05:11 [jackjansen]
- zakim, code?
- 09:05:11 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 3724 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), jackjansen
- 09:05:12 [raphael]
- Present: Yves, Raphael, Davy, Philip, Jack
- 09:05:23 [raphael]
- Topic: 1. ADMIN
- 09:05:28 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/13-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
- 09:05:48 [Zakim]
- + +31.20.592.aadd
- 09:05:54 [jackjansen]
- zakim, aadd is me
- 09:05:54 [Zakim]
- +jackjansen; got it
- 09:07:10 [raphael]
- PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the last week telecon, http://www.w3.org/2011/04/06-mediafrag-minutes.html ?
- 09:07:12 [foolip]
- +1
- 09:07:13 [raphael]
- +1
- 09:07:14 [davy]
- +1
- 09:07:18 [raphael]
- minutes accepted
- 09:07:23 [raphael]
- Scribe: raphael
- 09:07:29 [raphael]
- Scribenick: raphael
- 09:08:06 [raphael]
- TPAC 2011, http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/
- 09:08:36 [foolip]
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- 09:09:24 [raphael]
- Raphael: do you think we should meet?
- 09:09:40 [raphael]
- Jack: hard to say now, because we don't know what would be the status of the work
- 09:10:08 [raphael]
- Yves: I think if we need a F2F, better in Europe and earlier
- 09:10:53 [raphael]
- Raphael: Media Fragment WG does NOT plan to meet at TPAC
- 09:11:30 [raphael]
- Topic: 2. SPEC MAINTENANCE
- 09:11:55 [raphael]
- Precision of #xywh percent
- 09:12:10 [raphael]
- ... thread starting at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2011Apr/0022.html
- 09:12:29 [raphael]
- Philip: two issues
- 09:12:35 [foolip]
- rounding issue: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2011Apr/0011.html
- 09:12:36 [raphael]
- ... first one is rounding
- 09:12:50 [raphael]
- ... second one is the precision
- 09:13:16 [raphael]
- ... what is the use case, e.g. cropping a video?
- 09:13:19 [jackjansen]
- q+
- 09:13:40 [raphael]
- ... do we really need the percent syntax?
- 09:14:29 [raphael]
- ... the use case seems to be the existence of multiple encoding in multiple resolutions for the same video
- 09:14:34 [raphael]
- zakim, ack jackjansen
- 09:14:34 [Zakim]
- I see no one on the speaker queue
- 09:14:48 [raphael]
- Jack: I think you're right
- 09:15:03 [raphael]
- ... the % syntax is for very simple cases, such as take the half of a video
- 09:15:24 [raphael]
- Philip: but when does it make sense to do this?
- 09:16:53 [raphael]
- ... the change of 4/3 to 16/9 implies percent with decimal
- 09:16:57 [raphael]
- ... so our syntax does not do this
- 09:17:24 [raphael]
- Yves: aspect ratio could be handled with a new 'aspect' keyword
- 09:17:35 [raphael]
- ... but Sylvia was against this, because it is too complex
- 09:17:41 [raphael]
- ... and not enough uses of this
- 09:18:16 [davy]
- q+
- 09:18:32 [raphael]
- ... I'm not for or against the % syntax
- 09:18:45 [raphael]
- ... we can let it and see whether there will be implementations
- 09:19:17 [raphael]
- Jack: I think we should keep it and see whether there will be implementations
- 09:19:23 [raphael]
- ... and take it out if no tools
- 09:19:29 [davy]
- http://ninsuna.elis.ugent.be/Media/Showcase/Radiohead
- 09:19:40 [raphael]
- ... rather than inventing decimal percentages
- 09:19:50 [raphael]
- Davy: we DO use the percent syntax !
- 09:19:59 [davy_]
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- 09:20:04 [raphael]
- ... in the example above, we need the % to swith resolution
- 09:20:07 [foolip]
- q+
- 09:20:20 [raphael]
- zakim, ack davy
- 09:20:20 [Zakim]
- I see foolip on the speaker queue
- 09:20:40 [raphael]
- Philip: you have a server and each resolution have different URI
- 09:21:09 [raphael]
- Davy: yes we could do the computation on the server, but now, the annotations are independent of the resolution
- 09:21:22 [raphael]
- ... annotations are about logical URI
- 09:21:49 [Yves]
- conneg on user-agent for different resolution
- 09:22:06 [raphael]
- Jack: the syntax is then more interesting for annotating than cropping
- 09:23:46 [raphael]
- Yves: conneg on UA for different resolution, and cropping are "roughly"
- 09:24:10 [raphael]
- Philip: is this implemented anywhere?
- 09:24:56 [raphael]
- Yves: Opera is adapting content for mobile devices ... they do adapt resolution ?
- 09:25:17 [raphael]
- Philip: yes, but you still have different URI
- 09:25:22 [raphael]
- ... for caching purposes
- 09:25:30 [raphael]
- Yves: not in the case where it is done via proxy
- 09:25:39 [raphael]
- Philip: seems like a corner case
- 09:26:30 [raphael]
- Jack: I think the use case from Davy, mainly for annotation purpose, is an appealing one
- 09:26:41 [raphael]
- ... and not for browsers
- 09:26:47 [raphael]
- Philip: should we write this in the spec?
- 09:28:36 [raphael]
- Raphael: proposal to keep it in the spec and see the implementations that will do something with it
- 09:28:40 [raphael]
- ... no disagreement
- 09:28:58 [raphael]
- Topic: 3. TEST CASES
- 09:29:03 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/13-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
- 09:29:24 [raphael]
- Davy: first some changes, I have implemented the changes according to last week
- 09:29:26 [raphael]
- ... more filters
- 09:29:41 [raphael]
- ... more test cases (the ones from Philip)
- 09:30:01 [davy]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2011Apr/0031.html
- 09:30:13 [raphael]
- ... I think we should first discuss http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2011Apr/0031.html
- 09:30:37 [raphael]
- Davy: Invalid syntax
- 09:30:46 [raphael]
- ... #t=3,4,4 is invalid syntax
- 09:31:06 [raphael]
- ... what the UA should do
- 09:31:39 [raphael]
- ... disagreement: UA only requests setup information (Silvia) vs whole resource is requested by the UA (Philip)
- 09:32:36 [raphael]
- Jack: I don't really care as soon as it is consistent
- 09:32:48 [raphael]
- Yves: the same
- 09:34:03 [raphael]
- ACTION: raphael to ask Silvia if she objects to the decision of requesting the entire resource in case of an invalid syntax
- 09:34:03 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - raphael
- 09:34:09 [raphael]
- ACTION: troncy to ask Silvia if she objects to the decision of requesting the entire resource in case of an invalid syntax
- 09:34:09 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-216 - Ask Silvia if she objects to the decision of requesting the entire resource in case of an invalid syntax [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2011-04-20].
- 09:34:35 [raphael]
- Davy: Invalid Semantics
- 09:34:58 [raphael]
- ... case a): #t=7,3 is invalid semantically ... again same possibility
- 09:36:25 [foolip]
- Range: t:npt=3-7;include-setup
- 09:36:36 [raphael]
- Philip: what does it mean include-setup? Does it mean to implement the new headers?
- 09:36:53 [raphael]
- ... I'm not in favor of implementing this
- 09:37:16 [raphael]
- ... in particular when browsers have other means to receive the setup data
- 09:37:32 [davy]
- Range: include-setup
- 09:37:43 [tomayac]
- FWIW, in mediafragments.js, all incorrect parameter configurations are silently ignored, a warning is raised if verbose mode is enabled
- 09:38:23 [tomayac]
- (following the meeting on IRC)
- 09:39:09 [raphael]
- Jack: for temporal fragment, what is important is the user experience
- 09:39:27 [davy_]
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- 09:39:32 [raphael]
- ... we do not care if he uses byte ranges or our newly introduced mechanism
- 09:39:38 [raphael]
- Raphael: BIG +1 to Jack
- 09:43:07 [raphael]
- Jack: so if I put #t=7,3, I got the timeline and no portion selected
- 09:43:16 [raphael]
- ... should not be the same with #t=banana?
- 09:43:47 [raphael]
- Philip: there are things that will be harder to detect during parser
- 09:43:52 [raphael]
- s/parser/parsing
- 09:44:11 [raphael]
- ... e.g. #xywh=150%
- 09:44:40 [jackjansen]
- Note that I put up that suggestion (t=7,3 vs t=banana) as a point for discussion, not as my standpoint.
- 09:47:08 [raphael]
- Philip: so #t=7,3 will be ignored, first frame displayed, and NOT the frame at second 7 or 3
- 09:47:24 [tomayac]
- in mediafragments.js, most basic things get captured via regexps (like t=2,banana), however, harder ones like start < end are harder (given all the options)
- 09:47:25 [raphael]
- ... but #t=15,20 for a video of a duration of 10s will be different
- 09:48:05 [tomayac]
- i cant check for end <= video_duration
- 09:48:50 [tomayac]
- the default assumption in the lib is to always return the whole resource if anything cant be parsed correctly
- 09:49:50 [raphael]
- ... and what about #t=20,80 when the video is of duration 50s ?
- 09:52:08 [raphael]
- Davy: come back to #t=15,20 for a video of a duration of 10s
- 09:52:21 [raphael]
- ... I'm not saying that the UA should issue a range request
- 09:52:32 [raphael]
- ... but if it does, then server should reply with a 416
- 09:52:38 [raphael]
- Jack: what is the user experience?
- 09:53:27 [raphael]
- Davy: I agree with Philip, the player should seek towards the end (display the last frame?)
- 09:53:33 [raphael]
- ... to be consistent with HTML5
- 09:53:35 [silvia]
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- 09:54:43 [jackjansen]
- silvia, the good news is that we've now been able to give you heaps of action points:-)
- 09:54:58 [silvia]
- hahaha, sure!
- 09:55:18 [silvia]
- I probably just checked my calendar for the usual time, rather than your announcement - sorry :(
- 09:55:34 [silvia]
- were you able to agree on things?
- 09:56:43 [foolip]
- do we need to support media that doesn't start at 0 ?
- 09:56:50 [raphael]
- ACTION: davy to edit the specification for precising what is the user experience when there is an invalid time range
- 09:56:51 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-217 - Edit the specification for precising what is the user experience when there is an invalid time range [on Davy Van Deursen - due 2011-04-20].
- 09:57:10 [foolip]
- that comes up in the test case review, let's discuss in due course
- 09:57:15 [raphael]
- ACTION: jack to carrefully review the changes made by Davy that will most likely be all over the palce
- 09:57:15 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-218 - Carrefully review the changes made by Davy that will most likely be all over the palce [on Jack Jansen - due 2011-04-20].
- 09:57:19 [raphael]
- s/palce/place
- 09:58:48 [raphael]
- Raphael: should we postpone the discussion "do we need to support media that doesn't start at 0 ?" to next week ?
- 09:58:54 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/13-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
- 09:59:14 [raphael]
- Jack: let's do that on the mailing list
- 09:59:23 [raphael]
- ... Dave Singer may have an opinion
- 09:59:24 [foolip]
- so, I was muted and afk, so unable to unmute
- 09:59:29 [foolip]
- I'm fine with postponing
- 09:59:41 [Zakim]
- + +61.2.801.2.aaee
- 09:59:49 [foolip]
- ok
- 10:02:20 [raphael]
- Raphael: summarizing the first issue for Silvia
- 10:02:52 [raphael]
- Silvia: I'm fine with requesting the whole resource
- 10:03:37 [jackjansen]
- I have to run: next appointment. See you next week!
- 10:03:45 [silvia]
- zakim, aaee is me
- 10:03:45 [Zakim]
- +silvia; got it
- 10:03:46 [Zakim]
- -jackjansen
- 10:03:49 [raphael]
- ... I'm not able to remember when the include-setup will be used
- 10:04:12 [raphael]
- close ACGTION-217
- 10:04:15 [raphael]
- close ACTION-217
- 10:04:16 [trackbot]
- ACTION-217 Edit the specification for precising what is the user experience when there is an invalid time range closed
- 10:04:36 [raphael]
- close ACTION-216
- 10:04:36 [trackbot]
- ACTION-216 Ask Silvia if she objects to the decision of requesting the entire resource in case of an invalid syntax closed
- 10:05:26 [raphael]
- Topic: 4. AOB
- 10:05:33 [raphael]
- Regrets from Davy for next week
- 10:05:47 [Zakim]
- -raphael
- 10:05:47 [foolip]
- bye
- 10:05:48 [Zakim]
- -Yves
- 10:05:49 [Zakim]
- -Davy
- 10:05:51 [Zakim]
- -silvia
- 10:05:56 [Zakim]
- -foolip
- 10:05:58 [Zakim]
- IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
- 10:05:59 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +46.3.13.48.aaaa, foolip, +33.4.93.00.aabb, raphael, +329331aacc, Yves, Davy, +31.20.592.aadd, jackjansen, +61.2.801.2.aaee, silvia
- 10:06:10 [raphael]
- Present+ Silvia
- 10:06:18 [raphael]
- ... we will continue discussing test cases next week
- 10:06:32 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/13-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
- 10:07:46 [raphael]
- ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
- 10:07:50 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/13-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
- 10:10:28 [davy_]
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