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18:56:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-html-a11y-irc
18:56:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
18:56:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
18:56:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
18:56:38 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
18:56:38 <trackbot> Date: 04 April 2011
18:57:03 <richardschwerdtfe> meeting: W3C HTML Canvas Accessibility Call
18:57:06 <richardschwerdtfe> chair: Rich
18:58:13 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM has now started
18:58:20 <Zakim> +Rich
18:59:29 <richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011AprJun/0005.html
19:02:28 <Zakim> + +1.949.637.aaaa
19:02:37 <Zakim> -Rich
19:02:58 <richardschwerdtfe> phone died
19:03:01 <richardschwerdtfe> be right back
19:03:01 <Zakim> - +1.949.637.aaaa
19:03:03 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM has ended
19:03:04 <Zakim> Attendees were Rich, +1.949.637.aaaa
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19:04:04 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM has now started
19:04:11 <Zakim> + +1.949.637.aaaa
19:04:16 <Zakim> +Rich
19:05:18 <richardschwerdtfe> Tohttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011AprJun/0005.html
19:05:21 <richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011AprJun/0005.html
19:06:05 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: Clickable REgions and feedback
19:06:18 <richardschwerdtfe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2011JanMar/0090.html
19:07:10 <Zakim> -Rich
19:07:12 <richardschwerdtfe> phone died atain
19:07:15 <richardschwerdtfe> again
19:07:16 <richardschwerdtfe> just a sec
19:07:32 <richardschwerdtfe> getting a different phone
19:08:21 <Zakim> +Rich
19:09:02 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: Think Ian might try to make this a version 2.0
19:09:35 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: if you look at the source code there is a lot of - save this for the next version
19:09:57 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: we can't wait until a new version
19:10:37 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: I ran the font metrics by and although it is simple source code we need to wait for people to catch up.
19:10:56 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: I think he is spread too thin
19:11:04 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: same as doug
19:11:11 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: I understand
19:11:23 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: I have not seen any other developer feedback
19:11:42 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: no objections. just kicking it around
19:12:01 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: Oliver did have an objection to a retained graphics API
19:12:11 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: Oliver won't address me directly
19:13:00 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: the 2 developers who did respond are not willing to have a communication with me. 
19:13:10 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: probably because of IP.
19:13:28 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: Oliver argued with me over text support in WhatWG
19:13:46 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: was anything discussed on WhatWG?
19:14:19 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: no, not on the canvas api specifically for clickable regions
19:14:31 <Downchuck> public-webapps
19:14:41 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: I started taking things to public web apps as is easier to work 
19:15:10 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: so, I need to poke Ian to keep the discussion going. 
19:17:12 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: the "vizio like" example I provided showed how serious the problem is where the author had to create separate clickable drawing objects for each flow chart object
19:17:33 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: I thought up CSS pointers to improve the practice.
19:17:56 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: they are working find but more complex applications where this gets very expensive
19:18:47 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: just an observation that when you have a complex widget that requires you to enter text you run into problems.
19:19:19 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: take for example a 7X7 grid of images and this is where canvas excels over canvas
19:20:24 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: you saw how Ian did not object to the caret API
19:20:48 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: yes, as he established precedence for a caret himself
19:21:31 <Downchuck> css pointer-events
19:22:10 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: the css pointer event attribute is such where we should enable this with canvas. This came from SVG. CSS pointer events is such that the object is over a specific area. ... this is without the stroke option
19:22:38 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: canvas has stroke text and stroke. it may be possible to track that. That could be useful in the long term
19:22:55 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: it is actually practical to expose the current path.
19:22:57 <richardschwerdtfe> scribe: rich
19:23:13 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: it is possible to get the path I just set.
19:23:42 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: you get get this to a DOM string
19:24:50 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: ATs will start working with SVG and the path can be exposed through the DOM. This will move things forward for accessibility.  We are talking about 20 lines of javascript to get the path from SVG in the form of a DOM string. This would form the bounding box. So, we start reusing the most powerful part of the SVG spec.
19:25:02 <Downchuck> Looks like "M10 10 L10 20z"
19:25:02 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: this is good for any solution.
19:25:31 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: are those coodinates relative to the object or screen?
19:25:45 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: svg object
19:26:02 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: Poll Results
19:26:14 <richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-131-objection-poll/results
19:26:59 <richardschwerdtfe> Rich: Edward was upset that canDrawCustom
19:27:17 <richardschwerdtfe> Chuck: this is more of an issue for css than canvas
19:27:24 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: frank responded
19:27:36 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: we could force those issues on CSS
19:28:21 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: the user will peaved if his settings are not honored.
19:28:49 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: we could address both of those objections. They are something that should be solved in CSS.
19:29:04 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: caret is not really addressed in CSS and neither is focus ring
19:30:55 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: some have said that overspecification can be anti-competitive
19:32:02 <richardschwerdtfe> Topic: outstanding bugs
19:32:12 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: have any of these made any progress
19:32:18 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: no
19:32:32 <richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11328
19:32:33 <richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11329
19:32:33 <richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11342
19:32:33 <richardschwerdtfe> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12214
19:32:57 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: I still need to get something fixed on some of these bugs but nothing has happened yet.
19:36:19 <richardschwerdtfe> chuck: I like using the SVG technique for grabbing the draw path into a DOMString and will continue to push that for development purpsoses.
19:37:18 <richardschwerdtfe> rich: I want to wrap up canvas and start work on SVG accessibility
19:37:30 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSagent, make log public
19:37:37 <richardschwerdtfe> RRSAgent, draft minutes
19:37:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-html-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfe
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19:46:12 <Zakim> -Rich
19:46:13 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM has ended
19:46:15 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.949.637.aaaa, Rich
19:46:49 <Downchuck> http://www.nfb.org/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=771
19:47:19 <Downchuck> At least there are some consequences for corporations skipping ARIA
19:47:42 <Downchuck> If I had my way, I'd pitch A11y to their legal teams instead of their dev teams
19:51:38 <richardschwerdtfe> yes there are
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21:26:25 <janina> help
21:29:41 <richardschwerdtfe> help?
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