IRC log of rdf-wg on 2011-03-30
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:51:08 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:51:08 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-rdf-wg-irc
- 14:51:23 [gavinc]
- rrsagent, make records public
- 14:51:44 [gavinc]
- Scribe: gavinc
- 14:53:21 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:53:44 [hsbauer]
- hsbauer has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:53:54 [gavinc]
- zakim, this is rdfwg
- 14:53:54 [Zakim]
- ok, gavinc; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
- 14:54:46 [gavinc]
- 73394
- 14:55:27 [SteveH__]
- SteveH__ has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:55:56 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 14:56:02 [mbrunati]
- mbrunati has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:56:04 [Zakim]
- +Tony
- 14:56:07 [yvesr]
- Zakim, +??P19 is yvesr
- 14:56:07 [Zakim]
- sorry, yvesr, I do not recognize a party named '+??P19'
- 14:56:13 [yvesr]
- Zakim, P19 is yvesr
- 14:56:13 [Zakim]
- sorry, yvesr, I do not recognize a party named 'P19'
- 14:56:32 [Zakim]
- +??P21
- 14:56:36 [yvesr]
- Zakim, ??P19 is yvesr
- 14:56:36 [Zakim]
- +yvesr; got it
- 14:56:39 [SteveH__]
- Zakim, ??P21 is me
- 14:56:39 [Zakim]
- +SteveH__; got it
- 14:57:01 [gavinc]
- zakim, who is here
- 14:57:01 [Zakim]
- gavinc, you need to end that query with '?'
- 14:57:03 [gavinc]
- zakim, who is here?
- 14:57:03 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see +1.707.861.aaaa, yvesr, Tony, SteveH__
- 14:57:14 [gavinc]
- zakim, +1.707 is me
- 14:57:14 [Zakim]
- +gavinc; got it
- 14:57:17 [Zakim]
- +David
- 14:57:19 [yvesr]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:57:19 [Zakim]
- yvesr should now be muted
- 14:57:46 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:58:17 [mbrunati]
- zakim, [IPCaller] is me
- 14:58:17 [Zakim]
- +mbrunati; got it
- 14:58:21 [AxelPolleres]
- AxelPolleres has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:59:10 [zwu2]
- zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:59:17 [Zakim]
- + +20598aabb
- 14:59:18 [Zakim]
- +AxelPolleres
- 14:59:34 [Zakim]
- +OlivierCorby
- 14:59:38 [Zakim]
- +Peter_Patel-Schneider
- 14:59:40 [AndyS]
- AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:59:50 [ericP]
- ericP has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:59:54 [pfps]
- pfps has joined #rdf-wg
- 14:59:58 [Zakim]
- +zwu2
- 15:00:03 [Zakim]
- +EricP
- 15:00:11 [zwu2]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:00:11 [Zakim]
- zwu2 should now be muted
- 15:00:13 [AndyS]
- zakim, what is the conference code?
- 15:00:13 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), AndyS
- 15:00:26 [AndyS]
- zakim, thank you
- 15:00:26 [Zakim]
- you are very welcome, AndyS
- 15:00:41 [AlexHall]
- AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
- 15:00:47 [davidwood]
- Chair: Guus Schreiber
- 15:00:51 [AZ]
- AZ has joined #rdf-wg
- 15:00:54 [Zakim]
- +Sandro
- 15:01:05 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 15:01:05 [cmatheus]
- cmatheus has joined #rdf-wg
- 15:01:14 [AndyS]
- zakim, IPCaller is me
- 15:01:14 [Zakim]
- +AndyS; got it
- 15:01:20 [Zakim]
- + +1.443.212.aacc
- 15:01:24 [davidwood]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:01:26 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see gavinc, yvesr (muted), Tony, SteveH__, David, mbrunati, +20598aabb, AxelPolleres, OlivierCorby, Peter_Patel-Schneider, zwu2 (muted), EricP, Sandro, AndyS,
- 15:01:31 [Zakim]
- ... +1.443.212.aacc
- 15:01:45 [gavinc]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:01:45 [Zakim]
- gavinc should now be muted
- 15:01:49 [AlexHall]
- zakim, +1.443.212.aacc is me
- 15:01:49 [Zakim]
- +AlexHall; got it
- 15:02:06 [gavinc]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:02:06 [Zakim]
- gavinc should no longer be muted
- 15:02:20 [hsbauer]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 15:02:20 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see gavinc, yvesr (muted), Tony, SteveH__, David, mbrunati, +20598aabb, AxelPolleres, OlivierCorby, Peter_Patel-Schneider, zwu2 (muted), EricP, Sandro, AndyS,
- 15:02:24 [Zakim]
- ... AlexHall
- 15:02:40 [gavinc]
- Topic: Admin
- 15:03:11 [Zakim]
- +Ronald
- 15:03:17 [sandro]
- zakim, who is making noise?
- 15:03:28 [Zakim]
- sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +20598aabb (22%)
- 15:03:31 [AZ]
- Zakim, I think Ronald is me
- 15:03:31 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'I think Ronald is me', AZ
- 15:03:42 [AZ]
- Zakim, Ronald is me
- 15:03:42 [Zakim]
- +AZ; got it
- 15:03:47 [sandro]
- zakim, who is making noise?
- 15:03:58 [Zakim]
- sandro, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
- 15:04:02 [sandro]
- zakim, who is making noise?
- 15:04:07 [zwu2]
- subway?
- 15:04:12 [Zakim]
- sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +20598aabb (28%)
- 15:04:14 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 15:04:17 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 15:04:18 [sandro]
- zakim, mute aabb
- 15:04:18 [Zakim]
- +20598aabb should now be muted
- 15:04:25 [zwu2]
- :)
- 15:04:27 [AZ]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:04:27 [Zakim]
- AZ should now be muted
- 15:04:27 [sandro]
- zakim, unmute aabb
- 15:04:29 [Zakim]
- +20598aabb should no longer be muted
- 15:04:40 [sandro]
- AZ, you were making the noise.
- 15:04:46 [webr3]
- Zakim, i am ??P8
- 15:04:46 [Zakim]
- +webr3; got it
- 15:04:53 [Zakim]
- +Souri_
- 15:05:11 [Souri]
- Souri has joined #rdf-wg
- 15:05:28 [gavinc]
- Guus: Proposing accepting minutes, no objections, accepted.
- 15:05:35 [hsbauer]
- Sorry looks like i was not marked present.
- 15:05:41 [pfps]
- Minutes OK, but we should figure out who Tony is.
- 15:06:16 [hsbauer]
- My name didn't make the list
- 15:06:28 [gavinc]
- zakim, who is here
- 15:06:28 [Zakim]
- gavinc, you need to end that query with '?'
- 15:06:30 [gavinc]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:06:30 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see gavinc, yvesr (muted), Tony, SteveH__, David, mbrunati, +20598aabb, AxelPolleres, OlivierCorby, Peter_Patel-Schneider, zwu2 (muted), EricP, Sandro, AndyS,
- 15:06:36 [Zakim]
- ... AlexHall, AZ (muted), ??P5, webr3, Souri_
- 15:07:02 [gavinc]
- Subtopic: Actions
- 15:07:15 [webr3]
- thomas sent regrets too
- 15:07:28 [gavinc]
- Guus: Most people with actions are not here.
- 15:07:57 [gavinc]
- Guus: Richard did Nathans action, group JOSN use cases on wiki
- 15:08:00 [sandro]
- close action-22
- 15:08:01 [trackbot]
- ACTION-22 Group json use cases on wiki closed
- 15:08:13 [Zakim]
- + +1.850.377.aadd
- 15:08:25 [gavinc]
- Subtopic: F2F1
- 15:08:40 [Souri]
- regrets for F2F
- 15:08:44 [gavinc]
- Guus: Has everyone confirmed attendance?
- 15:09:05 [cmatheus]
- Zakim, i am ??P5
- 15:09:05 [Zakim]
- +cmatheus; got it
- 15:09:12 [gavinc]
- Guus: Some people still haven't RSVP'd
- 15:09:21 [pathayes]
- pathayes has joined #rdf-wg
- 15:09:26 [gavinc]
- Guus: Remote will be hard with timezones.
- 15:09:34 [Souri]
- well, I'll remotely attend the audio portion, if we have a tel#
- 15:09:44 [gavinc]
- Topic: Turtle Task Force
- 15:10:00 [Souri]
- q+
- 15:10:01 [pathayes]
- apologies for 10 mins late.
- 15:10:20 [sandro]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/products/3
- 15:10:26 [gavinc]
- Guus: Only two open issues, likely need more
- 15:10:44 [gavinc]
- Guus: ??? had a thread on Turtle issues.
- 15:10:57 [sandro]
- s/???/Peter and Eric/
- 15:11:25 [gavinc]
- Eric: We need a mapping from Turtle to Triples
- 15:11:57 [gavinc]
- Sandro: Are we going to produce such a mapping?
- 15:12:02 [sandro]
- s/Eric/Peter/
- 15:12:02 [ericP]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2010/01/Turtle/#sec-parsing Editor's Draft to which pfps referred
- 15:12:17 [ericP]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2008Jan/0128
- 15:12:35 [sandro]
- s/Are we/Maybe the ISSUE is: Are we/
- 15:13:17 [gavinc]
- Eric: Recursive or linear definition? How does concatenation work?
- 15:13:24 [Souri]
- q-
- 15:14:49 [sandro]
- sandro has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Mar/0693.html
- 15:15:05 [sandro]
- sandro has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.03.30
- 15:15:09 [gavinc]
- Guus: Can see a perpose for both of them
- 15:15:11 [gavinc]
- Guus: Can see a purpose for both of them. Might mean adding an appendix or section to current document.
- 15:15:12 [gavinc]
- Eric: Was going to code up both, but sprained wrist
- 15:15:14 [gavinc]
- Guus: Is that do able?
- 15:15:15 [gavinc]
- Peter: I am only interested in having a good spec. I have my own ideas on what is best, but think having more then one way is worse.
- 15:15:17 [pfps]
- I don't want to have two ways to turn Turtle to triples.
- 15:15:35 [gavinc]
- Eric: It is somewhat distracting to have two
- 15:15:40 [gavinc]
- Peter: Agree.
- 15:16:09 [gavinc]
- Guus: Is there a way to work this out?
- 15:16:15 [sandro]
- q?
- 15:16:28 [gavinc]
- Eric: I don't think either of us think the other is wrong.
- 15:16:33 [gavinc]
- Peter: Just misguided
- 15:17:02 [gavinc]
- Pat: Are we sure they are different?
- 15:17:39 [gavinc]
- ???: Sounds like we have agreement, accept for agreement
- 15:17:45 [sandro]
- s/???/Pat/
- 15:18:00 [webr3]
- general note: pfps' approach is perhaps more similar to other well used specs (html and webapps ones) and thus may be more familiar to readers
- 15:19:49 [gavinc]
- Peter: A good spec doesn't have different interpretations. A recipe often does.
- 15:20:25 [gavinc]
- Eric: My main objection is to the recursive method vs the linner method
- 15:20:42 [sandro]
- andy: A good set of test cases will help
- 15:20:49 [gavinc]
- +1
- 15:20:59 [webr3]
- s/linner/linear
- 15:21:22 [gavinc]
- AndyS: What happens around BNodes, what happens around escaping
- 15:21:24 [sandro]
- andy: layering -- escaping, identifying terminals, etc
- 15:22:22 [ericP]
- q+
- 15:22:34 [ericP]
- q-
- 15:22:40 [gavinc]
- AndyS: Deifine how each part is converted into each bit of a triple so that it can be reused (??)
- 15:23:44 [gavinc]
- EricP: Using this grammer in TriG. Notion of reusing the grammer was part of the reason for giving it a linear parsing model. So that it could be reused in cases where there is a document after. Stole what I could from SPARQL
- 15:24:04 [gavinc]
- EricP: Reuse of shared understanding from one spec or another
- 15:24:24 [gavinc]
- +q
- 15:24:40 [sandro]
- andy: Yes, sharing between SPARQL and Turtle spec is good.
- 15:24:45 [webr3]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2008Jan/0128 this one
- 15:25:01 [yvesr]
- +1
- 15:25:08 [gavinc]
- Sandro: Reusing and sharing grammer?
- 15:25:12 [ericP]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2008Jan/0128 pfps's mapping from Turtle grammar to an RDF graph
- 15:25:15 [gavinc]
- Peter: There is no grammer in mine.
- 15:25:29 [gavinc]
- Peter: It takes the AST, and turns the AST into triples
- 15:25:50 [gavinc]
- Peter: Takes AST, silent to sequences, silent to Turtle doc
- 15:26:30 [gavinc]
- Sandro: Add Peters spec to Turtle document?
- 15:26:37 [gavinc]
- s/Sandro/Guus
- 15:26:51 [gavinc]
- Peter: Silly to have a recipe and then a spec
- 15:26:59 [gavinc]
- Eric: Both are recipes
- 15:27:12 [gavinc]
- Peter: Silly have a ??? followed by a ???
- 15:27:46 [pfps]
- s/???/procedural spec/ s/???/non-procedural spec/
- 15:27:48 [sandro]
- eric: Who has looked at both of these?
- 15:28:06 [sandro]
- gavin: I did.
- 15:28:12 [sandro]
- andy: As did I
- 15:28:24 [sandro]
- gavin: I got stuck on how whitespace is to be handled in Turtle.
- 15:28:39 [sandro]
- gavin: Got it mostly working, but I have no idea if this is correct.
- 15:28:52 [webr3]
- 10.
- 15:28:57 [gavinc]
- sandro, thank you
- 15:29:02 [Guus]
- q?
- 15:29:06 [gavinc]
- -q
- 15:29:27 [AndyS]
- My parser does tokenization then parsing -- and it's streaming so working on a unit of same-subject makes sense.
- 15:29:27 [sandro]
- ISSUE: How do we parse "18." in Turtle?
- 15:29:28 [trackbot]
- Created ISSUE-18 - How do we parse "18." in Turtle? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/18/edit .
- 15:29:50 [yvesr]
- ah - i thougt i raised that one but must have forgot
- 15:30:16 [yvesr]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Feb/0131.html
- 15:30:38 [gavinc]
- Guus: Peter do you mind being on Turtle TF?
- 15:30:47 [gavinc]
- Peter: I like Graphs more then Turtle ;)
- 15:31:28 [yvesr]
- i can edit the issue
- 15:31:40 [gavinc]
- Guus: Two other issues with Turtle
- 15:31:47 [yvesr]
- (ISSUE-18)
- 15:32:20 [gavinc]
- Eric: I think all the terminals have an s at the end of them are supposed to be defined in the sparql spec.
- 15:32:35 [gavinc]
- Eric: Lexical tokens are all the same as SPARQL
- 15:32:41 [sandro]
- eric: re ISSUE-1 I think all the terminals have a link back to the SPARQL spec, except BASE and PREFIX. A few of the lower level productions are different, but the lack of variables makes it difference.
- 15:32:42 [AndyS]
- close but not the same e.g. [ :p 123 ] .
- 15:33:07 [AndyS]
- close but not the same e.g. [ ns:property 123 ] . (due to Ivan)
- 15:33:08 [SteveH]
- INSER DATA { } doesn't allow variables does it?
- 15:33:10 [sandro]
- ISSUE: Should TURTLE allow triples like "[ :p 123 ]." as SPARQL does ?
- 15:33:10 [trackbot]
- Created ISSUE-19 - Should TURTLE allow triples like "[ :p 123 ]." as SPARQL does ? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/19/edit .
- 15:33:12 [SteveH]
- *INSERT
- 15:33:44 [AndyS]
- Same with "(1 2 3) ." -- uncommon
- 15:33:49 [ericP]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2010/01/Turtle/#sec-grammar-grammar
- 15:34:16 [webr3]
- the diagram from n3 is quite good [related] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/n3/venn
- 15:34:39 [Souri]
- s/INSER DATA/INSERT DATA/
- 15:34:57 [ericP]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2010/01/Turtle/#sec-diff-sparql
- 15:35:01 [gavinc]
- Sandro: How are the languages related? How do I get from one to the other?
- 15:35:16 [sandro]
- sandro: I want a complete and precise listing in this spec of how it differs from SPARQL. (base, prefix, variables, maybe terms - as - triples)
- 15:35:39 [AndyS]
- SPARQL grammar cheats - just says "don't use variables" -- not part of formal grammar (grammar explosion)
- 15:36:28 [sandro]
- sandro: just the bit of SPARQL that INSERT { ... }
- 15:37:06 [sandro]
- sandro: it's smaller than BGP, it's just the INSERT part, not the WHERE part.
- 15:37:32 [AndyS]
- INSERT DATA can include GRAPH :-)
- 15:39:11 [SteveH]
- AndyS, true
- 15:39:28 [AlexHall]
- CONSTRUCT template then?
- 15:39:29 [sandro]
- sandro: why don't 6-16 have links to SPARQL?
- 15:39:40 [sandro]
- eric: they are very similar, but different eg in allowing variables.
- 15:39:57 [gavinc]
- Eric: http://www.w3.org/2010/01/Turtle/#sec-grammer 4.4, numbers with s at the end are the same as SPARQL. 6-16 don't match as Turtle doesn't have variables
- 15:41:12 [sandro]
- peter: The SPARQL spec does the standard cheat of saying "you need whitespace where you need whitespace". ... a b 18. a b ...
- 15:41:33 [sandro]
- eric: greedy lexer consumes the dot, simpler solution.
- 15:41:34 [zwu2]
- agree
- 15:41:38 [yvesr]
- sandro: the turtle spec does the same...
- 15:41:50 [sandro]
- s/:/,/
- 15:41:50 [yvesr]
- "White space (production ws) is used to separate two tokens which would otherwise be (mis-)recognized as one token"
- 15:42:05 [sandro]
- yes
- 15:42:09 [sandro]
- I hate that.
- 15:42:10 [AndyS]
- q+
- 15:42:35 [sandro]
- gavin: i have an issue on that. I can parse everything, unless it's a double. I can't figure out how to parse what you just said.
- 15:43:08 [sandro]
- gavin: parser had to comment out the bit with numbers with dots in them.
- 15:43:15 [AndyS]
- double has an 'e'
- 15:43:22 [sandro]
- peter: typically, you do a greedy lexer, doing doubles and decimals.
- 15:43:40 [sandro]
- peter: just about every programming language has this.
- 15:44:19 [gavinc]
- https://github.com/norcalrdf/pymantic/blob/master/pymantic/parsers.py
- 15:44:20 [sandro]
- AndyS: re LALR(1) parser. I think we want to go for LL(1), actually, so it can be done via Recursive Descent. Still need the right tokenizer.
- 15:44:47 [sandro]
- ericP: I haven't noticed the difference manifesting for this.
- 15:45:24 [sandro]
- q+
- 15:45:28 [AndyS]
- q-
- 15:46:00 [AndyS]
- q+
- 15:46:10 [gavinc]
- Sandro: Speaking as user. Not a grammar geek. Don't want to have to put a space before the period. I don't care if makes the parser harder.
- 15:46:53 [sandro]
- peter: you only need to space after a number.
- 15:47:01 [sandro]
- sandro: so code puts a space there
- 15:47:16 [gavinc]
- AndyS: SPARQL allows for 18. to represent a number, the charter would not allow us to change that
- 15:47:24 [sandro]
- andy: SPARQL 1.0 for better or worse requires the space after a number, and SPARQL 1.1 by its charter can't change that.
- 15:47:36 [sandro]
- andy: I'm not saying it's a good decision, but that's where we are.
- 15:47:56 [gavinc]
- andy: Prefix names do not end in a .
- 15:47:59 [sandro]
- AndyS: Prefix names in SPARQL do not end with a .
- 15:48:01 [AndyS]
- ack AndyS
- 15:48:11 [sandro]
- ack sandro
- 15:48:21 [gavinc]
- Subtopic: Turtle and Triples
- 15:48:57 [SteveH]
- q+
- 15:48:59 [gavinc]
- Guus: Deprecate N-Triples and just use Turtle? N-Triples developed for test cases.
- 15:49:21 [ericP]
- +1 to deprecating ntriples
- 15:49:31 [sandro]
- peter: Yes, get rid of N-Triples!
- 15:49:51 [zwu2]
- q+
- 15:49:58 [zwu2]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:49:58 [Zakim]
- zwu2 should no longer be muted
- 15:50:18 [gavinc]
- AndyS: Easier to put N-Triples into Turtle, used as a dump format and import format
- 15:50:22 [gavinc]
- +1
- 15:50:25 [SteveH]
- +1
- 15:50:55 [AxelPolleres]
-
- 15:51:10 [sandro]
- eric: repeating AndyS: I'd like a standard around N-Triples, it is out there, it is used, lets put it on a standards basis.
- 15:51:11 [ericP]
- turtle: <http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/암스테르담> a <Foo> .
- 15:51:12 [ericP]
- ntriple: <http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%95%94%EC%8A%A4%ED%85%8C%EB%A5%B4%EB%8B%B4> a <Foo> .
- 15:51:28 [webr3]
- +1 to and a mime type
- 15:51:28 [ericP]
- q+ to discuss differences between turtle and ntriples
- 15:51:35 [pfps]
- what is required to turn an n-triples doc into a Turtle doc?
- 15:51:38 [sandro]
- sandro: Can it be done as a small section of the Turtle grammar, specifuing the restrictions?
- 15:51:44 [sandro]
- AndyS: Yes, and the mime type.
- 15:52:05 [webr3]
- pfps, nothing iirc
- 15:52:26 [sandro]
- sandro: would N-Triples be a sublanguage of Turtle?
- 15:52:29 [sandro]
- AndyS: Yes.
- 15:52:59 [sandro]
- AndyS: Could call it N-Turtle, if we want to distinguish it from N-Triples.
- 15:53:04 [gavinc]
- +q ... and N-Quads? ;)
- 15:53:18 [gavinc]
- -q ...
- 15:53:25 [gavinc]
- -q N-Quads?
- 15:53:28 [gavinc]
- -q ;)
- 15:53:35 [gavinc]
- +q to talk about N-Quads
- 15:53:38 [sandro]
- ericP: Difference is in IRIs. In N-triples, we we have to do percent-decoding.
- 15:53:52 [Guus]
- [sorry, wasn't looking at the q]
- 15:54:04 [webr3]
- ericP, we need it to be UTF-8 and a subset of turtle
- 15:54:13 [sandro]
- AndyS: I would make N-Turtle, and have it be utf-8.
- 15:54:44 [sandro]
- AndyS: I do come across utf-8 N-triples, and also ascii, with percent-encoding.
- 15:54:44 [webr3]
- +1 likewise, many didn't know it couldn't be ascii in a recent thread on semantic-web
- 15:54:56 [sandro]
- Eric: Some of it is broken, and which way do we want to unbreak it.
- 15:55:03 [sandro]
- +1 use IRIs
- 15:55:04 [AndyS]
- N-Turtle is preferrable UTF-8
- 15:55:04 [ericP]
- q-
- 15:55:04 [webr3]
- s/ascii/utf8
- 15:55:05 [ww]
- +1 and likewise for nquads
- 15:55:10 [sandro]
- Guus: +1 use IRIs
- 15:55:26 [m029206__]
- m029206__ has joined #rdf-wg
- 15:55:27 [sandro]
- steve:+1 Andy
- 15:55:37 [gavinc]
- SteveH: I agree with Andy. We should make N-Triples a subset of Turtle, give it a mimetype and make it UTF-8
- 15:55:39 [Zakim]
- -yvesr
- 15:56:03 [AndyS]
- Need a different name (RDF-data?) and explain that it's N-Triples made into a standard.
- 15:56:10 [gavinc]
- Yvesr: Oracle position, it's really easy to parse
- 15:56:17 [sandro]
- zwu2: Oracle uses N-Triples heavily. We don't want it deprecated. Yes, it's long but it's REALLY EASY TO PARSE. Folks zip it up. So backward compatibility is important to us.
- 15:56:23 [gavinc]
- Ah, wrong name
- 15:56:50 [gavinc]
- zwu2: Existing N-Triples should be valid as well.
- 15:56:54 [sandro]
- guus: Oracle okay with using IRIs?
- 15:57:05 [sandro]
- zwu2: Yes, I think
- 15:57:08 [Zakim]
- +??P11
- 15:57:13 [yvesr]
- Zakim, ??P11 is yvesr
- 15:57:13 [Zakim]
- +yvesr; got it
- 15:57:26 [sandro]
- ericP: This change would affect the meaning of any NTriples documents with "%" in them.
- 15:57:42 [SteveH]
- q+ to disagree with ericP
- 15:57:44 [Souri]
- +1 to raising an issue
- 15:57:48 [ww]
- +q to ask rhetorcally if N-Turtle would be harder to parse than N-Triples, pace backwards compatibility
- 15:57:50 [zwu2]
- ack zwu2
- 15:57:54 [ww]
- -q
- 15:57:57 [zwu2]
- q-
- 15:58:28 [Guus]
- q?
- 15:58:28 [sandro]
- ACTION: AndyS to make concrete "N-Turtle" proposal
- 15:58:28 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-23 - Make concrete "N-Turtle" proposal [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-04-06].
- 15:58:42 [ericP]
- text/ntriples+turtle would be consistent with RFC3023 §7 ¶1
- 15:58:43 [SteveH]
- ericP, I'm not sure http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-testcases/#ntriples says you should decode %s
- 15:58:44 [SteveH]
- q-
- 15:59:09 [AndyS]
- +1 to Steve.
- 15:59:11 [sandro]
- SteveH: I'm not sure N-Triples doc says you need to unpack %-encoding
- 15:59:16 [gavinc]
- SteveH: N-Triples doesn't say you have to un % encode things
- 15:59:18 [sandro]
- Eric: Oh, that would be excellent
- 15:59:24 [Guus]
- ack gavinc
- 15:59:24 [Zakim]
- gavinc, you wanted to talk about N-Quads
- 15:59:35 [ww]
- Q-Turtle
- 15:59:43 [AndyS]
- NT has it's own esacaping via \u
- 15:59:49 [SteveH]
- yah
- 15:59:49 [sandro]
- q?
- 16:00:50 [sandro]
- sandro: basic non-answer is that N-Quads is part of the [GRAPHS] task force, and it hasn't made enough progress yet to know.
- 16:01:12 [gavinc]
- Guus: I think that's all the issues. Unless we missed something?
- 16:01:26 [AndyS]
- raise issue against product turtle so we come back to it when [graph] done with it
- 16:01:42 [gavinc]
- Sandro: Issue-19, diffrence between SPARQL and Turtle. In N3 and SPARQL you can do a BNode production... you can make a statement by just having it []
- 16:01:53 [AndyS]
- e.g. [ ns:foo 132 ; ns:bar ] .
- 16:02:37 [gavinc]
- AndyS: Yes, it should be part of Turtle.
- 16:02:45 [sandro]
- Pat: me too.
- 16:02:50 [gavinc]
- Pat: Yes, it should be in Turtle.
- 16:02:51 [ericP]
- sounds good to me
- 16:02:55 [gavinc]
- +1
- 16:02:57 [webr3]
- +1
- 16:03:09 [SteveH]
- raptor parses it too, fwiw
- 16:03:15 [AndyS]
- Be careful that "[] ." does no parse
- 16:03:20 [cygri]
- cygri has joined #rdf-wg
- 16:03:32 [AndyS]
- Be careful that "[] ." does not parse
- 16:03:40 [pfps]
- I'll speak up here.
- 16:03:49 [SteveH]
- [ <foo> 132 ; <bar> 23 ] . = two triples in raptor
- 16:04:11 [gavinc]
- Gavin: I think most parsers work this way already
- 16:04:17 [gavinc]
- Sandro: Maybe gather more data?
- 16:04:20 [Zakim]
- -EricP
- 16:04:25 [AndyS]
- Jena RIOT accepts it (as 2 triples)
- 16:04:46 [sandro]
- excellent, if Jena and Raptor and rdflib are happy with it, I'm happy with it. :-)
- 16:04:48 [webr3]
- my parsers do too, two triples.
- 16:04:56 [hsbauer]
- Gavin please add my name to attendees
- 16:04:58 [gavinc]
- Guus: I hope we can make some progress on this at the F2F
- 16:05:02 [pathayes]
- the parsers speak...
- 16:05:22 [gavinc]
- Topic: General Issues
- 16:05:36 [gavinc]
- Sandro: Should we talk more about the F2F?
- 16:05:57 [gavinc]
- Guus: We won't get to these general issues today.
- 16:06:32 [gavinc]
- Guus: Are there any women in this WG?
- 16:06:34 [gavinc]
- Gavin: No.
- 16:06:42 [Zakim]
- -cmatheus
- 16:07:11 [AndyS]
- ACTION: Andy to write collect issues and write a proposal standardizing N-Triples.
- 16:07:11 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-24 - Write collect issues and write a proposal standardizing N-Triples. [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-04-06].
- 16:07:25 [AxelPolleres]
- AxelPolleres has left #rdf-wg
- 16:07:53 [mbrunati]
- me on JSON TF, I'll try to do my best .) for the F2F
- 16:08:14 [Zakim]
- -webr3
- 16:08:26 [AxelPolleres]
- AxelPolleres has joined #rdf-wg
- 16:09:06 [gavinc]
- Sandro: Job of the presentor is to make sure the people at the F2F have a good idea of what's going on
- 16:09:29 [pathayes]
- you dont have to use powerpoint....
- 16:09:57 [gavinc]
- SteveH: Yeah, I'll do the Turtle TF presentation at the F2F
- 16:10:42 [gavinc]
- Guus: Richard in the best position to give this overview
- 16:11:04 [gavinc]
- s/this/Graph
- 16:11:52 [gavinc]
- Guus: JSON, hard to summarize
- 16:11:58 [AxelPolleres]
- AxelPolleres has left #rdf-wg
- 16:12:05 [Zakim]
- -yvesr
- 16:12:08 [AxelPolleres]
- AxelPolleres has joined #rdf-wg
- 16:13:02 [gavinc]
- Sandro: I'll ask Thomas to present JSON TF at the F2F
- 16:13:14 [gavinc]
- Guus: Good to do a summary of the Other Things.
- 16:13:46 [gavinc]
- Sandro: Willing to present deprecation issues
- 16:13:59 [gavinc]
- Sandro: Make Ivan do the other ones.
- 16:14:32 [Guus]
- q?
- 16:14:45 [gavinc]
- Guus: Thank you all. See you next week.
- 16:14:51 [Zakim]
- - +1.850.377.aadd
- 16:14:58 [zwu2]
- bye
- 16:15:02 [Zakim]
- -AxelPolleres
- 16:15:03 [Zakim]
- -OlivierCorby
- 16:15:06 [AxelPolleres]
- AxelPolleres has left #rdf-wg
- 16:15:07 [Zakim]
- -zwu2
- 16:15:08 [cmatheus]
- cmatheus has left #rdf-wg
- 16:15:08 [Zakim]
- -AlexHall
- 16:15:09 [AZ]
- bye
- 16:15:14 [Zakim]
- -SteveH__
- 16:15:16 [hsbauer]
- gavin please add my name to the attendance list as Scott Bauer
- 16:15:17 [AlexHall]
- AlexHall has left #rdf-wg
- 16:15:33 [gavinc]
- Will do
- 16:15:56 [Zakim]
- -AZ
- 16:16:12 [hsbauer]
- Thanks, I don't seem to be able to get myself id'ed on the port I'm connecting with
- 16:16:12 [Zakim]
- -Souri_
- 16:16:20 [Guus]
- zakim, who is here?
- 16:16:20 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see gavinc, Tony, David, mbrunati, +20598aabb, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Sandro, AndyS
- 16:17:16 [Zakim]
- -Peter_Patel-Schneider
- 16:17:49 [SteveH]
- SteveH has joined #rdf-wg
- 16:18:52 [Zakim]
- - +20598aabb
- 16:19:36 [Zakim]
- -mbrunati
- 16:19:38 [Zakim]
- -Tony
- 16:20:42 [Zakim]
- -AndyS
- 16:21:19 [AndyS]
- AndyS has left #rdf-wg
- 16:21:25 [sandro]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 16:21:25 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see gavinc, David, Sandro
- 16:21:35 [Zakim]
- -gavinc
- 16:22:36 [AndyS]
- AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
- 16:24:54 [Zakim]
- -David
- 16:24:55 [Zakim]
- -Sandro
- 16:24:55 [Zakim]
- SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
- 16:24:57 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +1.707.861.aaaa, Tony, yvesr, SteveH__, gavinc, David, mbrunati, +20598aabb, AxelPolleres, OlivierCorby, Peter_Patel-Schneider, zwu2, EricP, Sandro, AndyS, AlexHall,
- 16:25:00 [Zakim]
- ... AZ, webr3, Souri_, +1.850.377.aadd, cmatheus
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- cygri has joined #rdf-wg
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- danbri has joined #rdf-wg
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- danbri has joined #rdf-wg
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