14:49:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:49:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-i18n-irc
14:49:39 <aphillip> trackbot, prepare teleconference
14:49:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:49:41 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
14:49:43 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
14:49:43 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM scheduled to start 49 minutes ago
14:49:44 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
14:49:44 <trackbot> Date: 30 March 2011
14:50:34 <r12a> hi addison, felix tried to join the telecon an hour ago(ish)
14:51:11 <aphillip> Meeting: Internationalization Core Working Group
14:51:16 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:51:20 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
14:51:24 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
14:51:38 <aphillip> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
14:51:39 <aphillip> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:51:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:52:15 <aphillip> RRSAgent, set logs world
14:52:17 <aphillip> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:52:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:52:59 <aphillip> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2011Mar/0013.html
14:53:12 <aphillip> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:53:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:56:48 <matial> matial has joined #i18n
14:59:05 <David> David has joined #i18n
15:00:45 <David> so am I
15:01:52 <matial> me too
15:02:07 <r12a> felix said that the calendar shows 1400 UTC for the call time
15:02:25 <r12a> i could try to start an adhoc conf call if you like
15:02:29 <fsasaki> yes, http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar.html#s_3878
15:02:29 <aphillip> argh. it was 1500 last week and adminreq replied
15:02:35 <aphillip> that they changed
15:02:38 <aphillip> please do
15:02:49 <r12a> zakim, room for 8 ?
15:02:51 <Zakim> ok, r12a; conference Team_(i18n)15:02Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 1602Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked
15:03:30 <r12a> but it booked the call
15:03:41 <r12a> i suggest you try joining
15:03:43 <Zakim> Team_(i18n)15:02Z has now started
15:03:47 <r12a> addison
15:03:49 <aphillip> zakim, code?
15:03:49 <Zakim> the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), aphillip
15:03:51 <Zakim> +??P1
15:04:40 <kojiishi> kojiishi has joined #i18n
15:04:41 <Zakim> +David
15:04:45 <Zakim> -kennyluck
15:04:45 <Zakim> +kennyluck
15:05:02 <Zakim> +??P11
15:05:05 <r12a> zakim, who's here ?
15:05:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see kennyluck, David, ??P11
15:05:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see kojiishi, David, matial, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, fsasaki, r12a, kennyluck, fantasai, trackbot
15:05:11 <aphillip> zakim is having the "not hearing the keystrokes" problem for me
15:05:27 <Zakim> +Addison_Phillips
15:05:34 <matial> zakim, ??P11 is me
15:05:36 <Zakim> +matial; got it
15:05:36 <aphillip> zakim, I am Addison_Phillips
15:05:40 <Zakim> ok, aphillip, I now associate you with Addison_Phillips
15:06:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:06:05 <matial> zakim, mute me
15:06:05 <Zakim> matial should now be muted
15:06:48 <r12a> ok, kenny
15:07:41 <aphillip> Topic: Agenda
15:07:49 <aphillip> zakim, who is noisy?
15:08:00 <kojiishi> hmm...zakim says "the conference is restricted at this time" and I can't join
15:08:01 <Zakim> aphillip, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: kennyluck (19%)
15:08:12 <Norbert> Norbert has joined #i18n
15:08:19 <aphillip> zakim, mute kennyluck
15:08:19 <Zakim> kennyluck should now be muted
15:08:27 <aphillip> norbert: we are on code 26631
15:08:30 <aphillip> not 4186
15:08:43 <Zakim> +??P15
15:08:47 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
15:08:54 <Zakim> +??P36
15:08:59 <kojiishi> zakim, ??p15 is me
15:08:59 <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
15:09:27 <aphillip> 	Review techniques index pages to check that all the current links in the index point to the right place 
15:09:49 <aphillip> set to mid-april to look
15:10:25 <aphillip> item 30...
15:10:51 <aphillip> 	Send note to html wg saying "no objection" is our official position on issue 17
15:11:07 <aphillip> 	Write a response on issue 88 indicating our support for the decision
15:11:19 <aphillip> close ACTION-31
15:11:19 <trackbot> ACTION-31 Send note to html wg saying "no objection" is our official position on issue 17 closed
15:11:22 <aphillip> close ACTION-32
15:11:22 <trackbot> ACTION-32 Write a response on issue 88 indicating our support for the decision closed
15:11:51 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
15:12:22 <aphillip> felix: please look into the MLWeb workshop next week
15:13:11 <kennyluck> q+
15:13:50 <aphillip> Topic: Upcoming scheduling
15:14:13 <Norbert> * yes
15:14:17 <kennyluck> q-
15:15:15 <aphillip> Topic: CSS3 Character Orientation
15:16:57 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-cjk/2011JanMar/0070.html
15:17:16 <aphillip> koji: in vertical text flows
15:17:34 <aphillip> ... how do we determine which charactes to rotate or which to put sideways
15:17:45 <kojiishi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-cjk/2011JanMar/0070.html
15:17:50 <aphillip> ... been discussing with fantasai and () of Microsoft
15:18:02 <aphillip> koji: so I proposed email link above
15:18:06 <aphillip> ... fantasai is okay
15:18:20 <aphillip> ... talked to Ken Lunde
15:18:28 <aphillip> ... looking forward to additional feedback
15:18:37 <kennyluck> q+
15:18:51 <r12a> r12a has left #i18n
15:19:08 <aphillip> kennyluck: curious if webkit is implementing
15:19:25 <aphillip> koji: webkit has very tiny algorithm that doesn't work always
15:19:33 <kennyluck> cool!
15:19:33 <aphillip> ... and we'll talk to dave hyatt to fix webkit
15:20:04 <aphillip> ... uses open type features
15:20:11 <aphillip> ... need a good spec for truetype, etc.
15:20:52 <aphillip> kennyluck: will discuss algorithm in chinese
15:21:30 <aphillip> ACTION: kennyluck: ask chinese colleagues about character orientation spec
15:21:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-34 - Ask chinese colleagues about character orientation spec [on Kang-Hao (Kenny) Lu - due 2011-04-06].
15:22:07 <aphillip> Topic: Various and sundry HTML5 issues
15:22:36 <aphillip> koji: have responded to ruby
15:22:48 <Zakim> -felix
15:22:49 <aphillip> ... talking to ian
15:23:10 <kojiishi> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10830
15:23:11 <aphillip> html bug 10830
15:24:34 <aphillip> koji: not many users
15:25:07 <aphillip> ... IE9 fixed their bug
15:25:32 <aphillip> chair: time for a working group position?
15:25:37 <aphillip> koji: that would be great
15:25:39 <kennyluck> q+
15:25:57 <aphillip> ack kennyluck
15:26:08 <aphillip> kennyluck: can't be sure, but...
15:26:20 <aphillip> ... IE9, safari, firefox accept tags
15:26:26 <kennyluck> <c> <d> <e>
15:26:34 <aphillip> ... but they accept anything in angle brackets
15:26:50 <aphillip> koji: IE7/IE8 didn't parse correctly
15:27:00 <aphillip> ... but <rb> tag parses correctly now
15:27:29 <kennyluck> q+
15:27:46 <aphillip> koji: interpration currently broken
15:27:59 <aphillip> s/interpration/interpretation/
15:28:02 <kojiishi> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cruby%3E%3Crb%3Ebase%3C/rb%3E%3Crt%3Etext%3C/rt%3E%3C/ruby%3E
15:28:55 <aphillip> koji: IE7/8 do something completely broken
15:28:59 <aphillip> ack kennyluck
15:29:46 <aphillip> kennyluck: good criteria <rb> is whether when you say 'alert' it's considered ruby tag and not 'non-element'
15:31:41 <aphillip> addison: question is whether we have/don't have <rb> in spec
15:32:00 <aphillip> koji: IE parser is broken, so Ian wants to get rid of it
15:32:04 <aphillip> ... but parser is not broken
15:32:10 <kennyluck> [[ Note that IE *does not parse* the <rb> element. It treats it like a void
15:32:10 <kennyluck> element. It completely ignores the tag for ruby processing as far as I can
15:32:11 <kennyluck> tell. <rb> has no effect on IE. ]]
15:33:12 <Zakim> -David
15:33:21 <kennyluck> does not parse = does not understand
15:33:22 <aphillip> koji: could be interesting to ask Ian
15:33:37 <aphillip> ... could make counter-proposal that if parser isn't broken
15:33:46 <aphillip> ... that we could put it in
15:35:37 <aphillip> koji: I think we don't want to invalidate <rb> tag
15:36:33 <aphillip> addison: is it important for styling?
15:36:57 <aphillip> chair: are we forming a WG position here, or do we want to consider in depth next week?
15:37:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:37:45 <aphillip> kennyluck: would one of us (koji) write a change proposal?
15:37:56 <aphillip> ... editor won't write text for us
15:38:37 <aphillip> addison: note that this will be a post-LC bug
15:38:43 <aphillip> ... first step is to escalate
15:39:02 <aphillip> this is our bug
15:39:50 <aphillip> chair: enough here for WG to support bug opening?
15:39:54 <aphillip> kennyluck: no objection
15:39:58 <aphillip> koji: supports
15:40:01 <aphillip> addison: supports
15:40:45 <aphillip> norbert: part of argument is that some websites use <rb>, but if it doesn't show...
15:40:57 <aphillip> koji: ian states that IE doesn't support <rb>
15:41:02 <aphillip> ... but statement is unclear
15:41:13 <aphillip> ... fantasai and I understand that it's broken in DOM
15:41:18 <aphillip> ... but actually renders
15:41:25 <aphillip> ... since <rb> is supposed to do nothing
15:41:46 <aphillip> addison: it serves as a basis for styling
15:41:54 <aphillip> koji: tag has no default style
15:42:01 <aphillip> ... but DOM is broken
15:42:08 <aphillip> ... so if you use in IE7/8, it won't work
15:42:27 <aphillip> ... can't style
15:42:35 <aphillip> ... fixed in IE9
15:42:46 <aphillip> ... so there is a browser that implements
15:42:56 <aphillip> ... webkit has also implemented
15:43:05 <aphillip> norbert: that's the important argument
15:43:13 <kennyluck> I think the argument is that since all browser supports the HTML5 parser
15:43:16 <aphillip> ... and there are webistes that use
15:43:21 <aphillip> ... so compatibility argument
15:43:30 <kennyluck> Anything like <rb> <c> <d> <e> will all be parsed all [HTMLUnknownElement]
15:43:37 <kennyluck> s/all/as/
15:43:39 <aphillip> norbert: supports
15:43:58 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: add comment to bug 10830 supporting opening of it
15:43:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-35 - Add comment to bug 10830 supporting opening of it [on Addison Phillips - due 2011-04-06].
15:44:10 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
15:44:26 <aphillip> kennyluck: interesting thing...
15:44:27 <kennyluck> -> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text/#traditions Culturla section
15:44:40 <aphillip> s/Culturla/Cultural/
15:45:25 <aphillip> ... missing item for Thai?
15:45:26 <Norbert> Norbert has joined #i18n
15:45:37 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:45:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:45:48 <kojiishi> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text/#text-decoration-skip
15:46:50 <Norbert> Norbert has joined #i18n
15:46:58 <Zakim> -Addison_Phillips
15:46:59 <Zakim> -matial
15:46:59 <Zakim> -??P36
15:47:01 <Zakim> -kojiishi
15:47:01 <Zakim> Team_(i18n)15:02Z has ended
15:47:03 <Zakim> Attendees were kennyluck, David, Addison_Phillips, matial, [IPcaller], felix, kojiishi
15:47:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:53:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:53:07 <aphillip> zakim, bye
15:53:07 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
15:53:14 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
15:53:14 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-i18n-actions.rdf :
15:53:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: kennyluck: ask chinese colleagues about character orientation spec [1]
15:53:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-i18n-irc#T15-21-30
15:53:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: add comment to bug 10830 supporting opening of it [2]
15:53:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-i18n-irc#T15-43-58