IRC log of rdb2rdf on 2011-03-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:56:29 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
15:56:29 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/22-rdb2rdf-irc
15:57:54 [Ashok]: zakim, this will be RDB2RDF
15:57:54 [Zakim]: ok, Ashok; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:58:05 [Ashok]: chair: Ashok
15:58:17 [Ashok]: regrets: Juan, Marcelo
15:58:39 [juansequeda]: juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf
15:59:17 [juansequeda]: yes, a liitle late
15:59:21 [Ashok]: ok
15:59:25 [juansequeda]: just settling in
15:59:37 [dmcneil]: dmcneil has joined #RDB2RDF
15:59:40 [Zakim]: SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
15:59:47 [Zakim]: +Ashok_Malhotra
15:59:54 [Ashok]: regrets-: Juan
16:00:22 [Zakim]: + +1.314.394.aaaa
16:00:23 [Zakim]: +Alexandre
16:00:26 [soeren]: soeren has joined #RDB2RDF
16:00:39 [betehess]: Zakim, aaaa is dmcneil
16:00:40 [Zakim]: +dmcneil; got it
16:00:51 [nunolopes]: nunolopes has joined #RDB2RDF
16:00:59 [Zakim]: + +3539149aabb
16:01:09 [betehess]: Zakim, aabb is nunolopes
16:01:09 [Zakim]: +nunolopes; got it
16:01:09 [Zakim]: +EricP
16:01:21 [cygri]: zakim, aabb is cygri
16:01:21 [Zakim]: sorry, cygri, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
16:01:27 [Zakim]: + +569061aacc
16:01:33 [cygri]: zakim, i'm with nunolopes
16:01:33 [Zakim]: +cygri; got it
16:01:44 [betehess]: Zakim, cygri is with nunolopes
16:01:44 [Zakim]: cygri was already listed in nunolopes, betehess
16:01:47 [soeren]: zakim, aacc is soeren
16:01:47 [Zakim]: +soeren; got it
16:01:49 [Ashok]: present: David_McNeill, Richard, Nuno, Alexande, Soeren
16:02:07 [betehess]: a/Alexande/Alexandre/
16:02:19 [betehess]: s/Alexande/Alexandre/
16:02:43 [betehess]: s/Nuno, Alexande/Nuno, Alexandre/
16:02:48 [Ashok]: present+:: Eric
16:03:03 [Ashok]: present+: Eric
16:03:36 [ericP]: scribenick: ericP
16:04:06 [Ashok]: Topic: 1. Admin + PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2011/03/15-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:04:12 [betehess]: http://www.w3.org/mid/82AD6EAF-514D-4950-A61E-5FF2F56106A7@deri.org
16:04:24 [Zakim]: +??P12
16:04:30 [ivan]: zakim, ??P12 is me
16:04:30 [Zakim]: +ivan; got it
16:04:31 [Zakim]: + +1.603.897.aadd
16:04:36 [cygri]: agenda is here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Mar/0091.html
16:04:49 [Ashok]: present+: Ivan
16:04:51 [ericP]: PROPOSED: accept http://www.w3.org/mid/82AD6EAF-514D-4950-A61E-5FF2F56106A7@deri.org as a record of the Feb 15 meeting
16:04:54 [ericP]: APPROVED
16:04:55 [Souri]: Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:05:11 [Seema]: Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:05:25 [ericP]: s/Feb 15/Mar 15/
16:05:34 [Zakim]: + +575737aaee
16:05:49 [cygri]: present+ cygri
16:05:54 [cygri]: present+ nunolopes
16:06:21 [ericP]: Ashok: any open actions?
16:06:26 [Zakim]: + +1.603.897.aaff
16:06:31 [ericP]: cygri: i have some which don't block publication
16:06:38 [Seema]: Zakim, aaff is Seema
16:06:38 [Zakim]: +Seema; got it
16:07:04 [ericP]: Ashok: what about Ted's action on blank nodes?
16:07:17 [ericP]: ... [noting that Ted is not present]
16:07:33 [Ashok]: present+: Souri, Seema
16:07:58 [ericP]: topic: investigating open issues
16:08:04 [cygri]: ISSUE-10?
16:08:04 [trackbot]: ISSUE-10 -- Hash vs Slash -- open
16:08:04 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/10
16:09:01 [ericP]: closed
16:09:02 [Zakim]: -soeren
16:09:41 [Zakim]: + +030061aagg
16:09:52 [soeren]: zakim, aagg is soeren
16:09:52 [Zakim]: +soeren; got it
16:10:02 [ericP]: issues 18, 19, 20: re-use, query as a subquyer, predicate/object refer to join table
16:10:20 [ericP]: Ashok: David are these showstoppers?
16:10:51 [ericP]: dmcneil: they are important to my organization (we treat them as extensions), but they shouldn't hold up publication
16:11:05 [ericP]: issue-26?
16:11:05 [trackbot]: ISSUE-26 -- Producing triples in named graphs and the default graph -- open
16:11:05 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/26
16:11:25 [ericP]: Souri: i've modified r2rml to include clarifications
16:11:43 [ericP]: ... s/unnamed graph/default graph/g'd
16:12:11 [ericP]: ... gen'd triples can go arbitrarily to default graph, some named graph, or both
16:12:21 [ericP]: action-111?
16:12:21 [trackbot]: ACTION-111 -- Souripriya Das to clarify that with use of (newly introduced) rr:defaultGraph value for rr:graph property of a PredicateObjectMap, we now allow triples to be produced either in the default graph, or a set of named graphs, or the default graph as well as a set of named graphs -- due 2011-03-26 -- OPEN
16:12:21 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/111
16:12:26 [ericP]: CLOSED
16:12:30 [ericP]: action-26?
16:12:30 [trackbot]: ACTION-26 -- Michael Hausenblas to create F2F Wiki page -- due 2010-03-05 -- CLOSED
16:12:30 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/26
16:12:32 [ericP]: CLOSED
16:12:37 [ericP]: issue-27
16:12:40 [ericP]: issue-27?
16:12:40 [trackbot]: ISSUE-27 -- NULL graphColumn value producing triples in an unnamed graph -- open
16:12:40 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/27
16:13:03 [ericP]: dmcneil: i think the s/unnamed graph/default graph/g resolves this
16:13:06 [ericP]: CLOSED
16:13:12 [ericP]: issue-28?
16:13:12 [trackbot]: ISSUE-28 -- Clarify whether blank nodes are equivalent based on their identifier -- pending review
16:13:12 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/28
16:13:45 [ericP]: Ashok: [noting cygri's email about equivalent bnodes]
16:13:48 [Ashok]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/28
16:14:14 [dmcneil]: +q
16:14:17 [ericP]: cygri: i believe r2rml section 4 discussing the scope of bnodes address this
16:14:33 [ericP]: ... would like feedback from e.g. PatH
16:15:18 [ericP]: Ashok: propose to publish, and solicit feedback from PatH afterwards
16:15:56 [ericP]: ISSUE-28 still pending review
16:16:54 [Ashok]: Issue 28 is marked PENDING REVIEW ... keep this status
16:16:56 [ericP]: dmcneil: two triple maps producing the same labeled bnode in the same graph reference the same bnode
16:17:26 [ericP]: cygri: i had taken the path of saying that bnodes were the same unless the spec said they were distinct
16:17:40 [betehess]: someone has a link to the definition of blank node equality?
16:17:42 [Zakim]: +Kingsley_Idehen
16:17:48 [ericP]: ... if we're ok with last-minute fixes, i can tweak this now, or after publication
16:17:51 [MacTed]: Zakim, Kingsley_Idehen is OpenLink_Software
16:17:51 [Zakim]: +OpenLink_Software; got it
16:17:59 [MacTed]: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:17:59 [Zakim]: +MacTed; got it
16:18:23 [Souri]: +1 to Richard fixing the bNode text today
16:18:31 [MacTed]: Zakim, mute me
16:18:34 [Zakim]: MacTed should now be muted
16:18:47 [ericP]: PROPOSED: cygri tweaks bnode label scope text for publication without further review from WG
16:18:50 [ericP]: APPROVED
16:18:54 [ericP]: issue-29?
16:18:54 [trackbot]: ISSUE-29 -- Require blank node and IRI identifier expressions to produce strings -- open
16:18:54 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/29
16:19:11 [Ashok]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/29
16:19:50 [ericP]: Ashok: i recall discussing this a couple weeks ago. what came out of it?
16:20:05 [ivan]: zakim, mute me
16:20:05 [Zakim]: ivan should now be muted
16:22:45 [ericP]: ericP: [SQL casting to strings]
16:22:55 [ericP]: ... have app-specific length limits
16:23:13 [ericP]: Ashok: i think those limits are large enough to be ignorable
16:24:03 [cygri]: Ashok: can casting produce chars that are not allowed in IRIs?
16:25:44 [ericP]: dmcneil: not closed in my mind
16:25:54 [ericP]: ... but we can publish
16:25:58 [ericP]: issue-30?
16:25:58 [trackbot]: ISSUE-30 -- Different blank node identifier than was defined in mapping -- open
16:25:58 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/30
16:26:22 [ericP]: dmcneil: addressed by latest text in r2rml section 4
16:26:32 [ericP]: issue-33?
16:26:32 [trackbot]: ISSUE-33 -- How can rr:template be used in an ObjectMapClass to produce IRI's or Strings -- raised
16:26:32 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/33
16:27:31 [ericP]: dmcneil: if you use templates to produce an object, is that an IRI or a string?
16:28:02 [ericP]: Souri: templates in objectmaps default to a plain literal (unless you specify that it's an IRI)
16:28:18 [ericP]: ... so in your issue example, it will be treated as a string
16:29:08 [ericP]: dmcneil: it seems rr:TermType and rr:DataType are only allowed to come from a column
16:29:23 [ericP]: ... ergo precludes coming from a template
16:29:38 [ericP]: ... refering to 3.6.1.3…
16:31:04 [ericP]: cygri: separate sections cover the SubjectMap and ObjectMap
16:31:42 [ericP]: ... it's all well defined in the SubjectMap
16:31:55 [ericP]: ... the ObjectMap is a bit different
16:32:05 [ericP]: Souri: i think we need to fix this
16:32:21 [ericP]: cygri: points to a deeper issue; lots of duplication in the text
16:32:46 [ericP]: ... these properties can appear in different positions and do pretty much the same thing
16:33:42 [ericP]: ... could we define all of these properties once in the most flexible way (i.e. as they'd be use in an ObjectMap)
16:34:07 [ericP]: ... then add restrictions for e.g. PredicateMap not allowing [literals or bnodes]
16:34:26 [ericP]: +1 to cygri's proposed factoring
16:34:39 [ericP]: Souri: need a "common properties"
16:34:44 [dmcneil]: +1 to refactoring
16:35:01 [ericP]: cygri: needs to wait 'till after pub
16:35:28 [cygri]: 3.6.1.3
16:36:02 [Zakim]: -soeren
16:36:27 [Souri]: ACTION: Souri to edit the restrictions in sec 3.6.1.3 and 3.6.1.4 to include rr:template as well
16:36:27 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-112 - Edit the restrictions in sec 3.6.1.3 and 3.6.1.4 to include rr:template as well [on Souripriya Das - due 2011-03-29].
16:36:31 [Zakim]: + +666061aahh
16:36:42 [soeren]: zakim, aahh is soeren
16:36:42 [Zakim]: +soeren; got it
16:37:03 [ericP]: Ashok: two issues remain open
16:37:09 [ericP]: ... neither blocks publication
16:37:18 [ericP]: topic: publication
16:38:14 [cygri]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/r2rml/#introduction
16:38:22 [ericP]: cygri: additional editorial TODO:
16:38:52 [dmcneil]: +q
16:38:55 [ericP]: ... intro needs to be reworded to reflect the existence of the DM
16:39:34 [dmcneil]: +1 to formally recording all the issues
16:39:38 [betehess]: +1 to use links to the tracker
16:39:40 [soeren]: +q
16:40:38 [ericP]: ... propose that we copy around ~7 issues from the spec to tracker
16:40:42 [Souri]: @@Issue: The use of a "convention over configuration" approach has been proposed, where a mapping is not expressed completely, but rather as a delta from the default mapping. In other words, only those parts that one wants to be different from the default mapping have to be written down in the mapping file.
16:40:55 [ericP]: ACTION: cygri to copy around ~7 issues from the spec to tracker
16:40:56 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-113 - Copy around ~7 issues from the spec to tracker [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-03-29].
16:41:06 [Souri]: @@Issue: As currently defined, the output of an R2RML mapping is an RDF dataset that contains triples reflecting the records in the database. The output is thus on the "instance level". A feature under discussion is the additional generation of an RDF Schema or OWL Ontology that reflects the constraints and valid inferences over the classes and properties in the generated dataset. This output would be on the "terminology level".
16:41:52 [ericP]: dmcneil: +1 to cygri. also good to record issue resolution in the issue tracker
16:42:16 [ericP]: ... noticed that 3.9.1.2 has moved the '.' to inside the "{}"s
16:42:35 [ericP]: Souri: the goal is to be able to string replace them if we don't parse them
16:42:53 [ericP]: dmcneil: seems just as esoteric with the '.' inside
16:43:12 [ericP]: Souri: the "alias." is a unit
16:43:18 [dmcneil]: -q
16:43:30 [ericP]: ... happy to update if we acquire wisdom
16:43:34 [ericP]: dmcneil: OK
16:44:00 [ericP]: soeren: the "owner" is mentioned throughout the document
16:44:06 [ericP]: ... propose an issue for this
16:44:32 [ericP]: ... i think this is Oracle-specific. called "database" and MySQL and @@1 in DB2
16:44:41 [cygri]: q+
16:45:04 [Ashok]: Souri: In Orac;le it is called "owner" or "schema"
16:45:05 [ericP]: Souri: yeah, we can have a glossary connecting these terms to outside use
16:45:24 [ericP]: soeren: could add paragraph for SQL concepts to 1.1
16:45:56 [cygri]: ACTION: cygri to update paragraph in the introduction that talks about the direct mapping spec
16:45:57 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-114 - Update paragraph in the introduction that talks about the direct mapping spec [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-03-29].
16:47:05 [ericP]: Souri: i think we have very few refs to "owner" now
16:47:11 [ericP]: ACTION: soeren to create an issue addressing vendor-specific names like "owner"
16:47:11 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - soeren
16:47:48 [ericP]: ACTION: saueren to create an issue addressing vendor-specific names like "owner"
16:47:48 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - saueren
16:47:53 [cygri]: saure
16:47:53 [Souri]: sauer
16:47:54 [cygri]: sauer
16:47:56 [soeren]: sauer
16:48:05 [ericP]: ACTION: sauer to create an issue addressing vendor-specific names like "owner"
16:48:05 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-115 - Create an issue addressing vendor-specific names like "owner" [on Sören Auer - due 2011-03-29].
16:48:38 [ericP]: cygri: SQL spec defines terminology for e.g. "catalog" and "schema"
16:49:07 [ericP]: ... catalog*/schema*
16:49:15 [ericP]: ... i think we should use those terms
16:49:25 [ericP]: +1
16:49:48 [ericP]: if we're going to make readers learn something, let's make them learn standard terms
16:50:06 [ivan]: zakim, unmute me
16:50:06 [Zakim]: ivan should no longer be muted
16:50:41 [betehess]: no
16:51:58 [betehess]: Alexandre: the Webmaster is ok to publish on Thursday Mar 24
16:52:43 [Ashok]: Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
16:52:56 [ericP]: Ashok: what's the status of the DM?
16:54:26 [ericP]: ericP: it lacks the polish of the DM
16:54:37 [ericP]: ... i'm content to let it go as it is
16:54:38 [juansequeda]: +1 to publish both
16:54:49 [ivan]: +1 to publish them together
16:54:53 [cygri]: +1 to publish both
16:54:56 [betehess]: +1
16:54:59 [ericP]: +1
16:55:20 [ivan]: yay!
16:55:20 [Seema]: +1 to publish them together
16:55:27 [ericP]: PROPOSED: publish R2RML spec after cygri's bnode scope text (expected EOB 22 March), update paragraph introducing direct mapping spec and souri's updates per ACTION-112 and no further WG review
16:55:53 [cygri]: ACTION-112,113,114
16:56:47 [ericP]: PROPOSED: publish R2RML spec after cygri's updates per ACTION-113 and ACTION-114 and souri's updates per ACTION-112 and no further WG review
16:57:03 [ivan]: +1
16:58:22 [ivan]: -1
16:58:58 [ericP]: APPROVED
16:59:18 [Zakim]: -Alexandre
16:59:20 [ericP]: PROPOSED: publish DM as is
16:59:39 [cygri]: Souri, ivan, me too
16:59:40 [ericP]: +1
16:59:42 [cygri]: +1
16:59:42 [nunolopes]: +1
16:59:46 [ivan]: +1
16:59:56 [ericP]: APPROVED
16:59:57 [juansequeda]: +1
17:00:30 [Souri]: +1
17:01:22 [ericP]: ACTION: betehess to update DM for publication on 24 March
17:01:22 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - betehess
17:01:29 [ericP]: ACTION: alexandre to update DM for publication on 24 March
17:01:29 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - alexandre
17:01:32 [Zakim]: -MacTed
17:01:38 [ericP]: ACTION: bertails to update DM for publication on 24 March
17:01:38 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - bertails
17:02:00 [cygri]: try abertai5
17:03:03 [Zakim]: -soeren
17:03:05 [Zakim]: -nunolopes
17:03:06 [Zakim]: -ivan
17:03:09 [Zakim]: - +575737aaee
17:03:19 [Zakim]: -EricP
17:04:32 [Zakim]: - +1.603.897.aadd
17:04:33 [Zakim]: -dmcneil
17:04:33 [Zakim]: -Seema
17:04:35 [Zakim]: -Ashok_Malhotra
17:04:35 [Zakim]: SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
17:04:37 [Zakim]: Attendees were Ashok_Malhotra, +1.314.394.aaaa, Alexandre, dmcneil, +3539149aabb, EricP, nunolopes, +569061aacc, cygri, soeren, ivan, +1.603.897.aadd, +575737aaee, +1.603.897.aaff,
17:04:40 [Zakim]: ... Seema, +030061aagg, MacTed, +666061aahh
17:04:50 [Ashok]: rrsagent, make logs public
17:04:59 [Ashok]: rrsagent, make logs public
17:05:15 [Ashok]: rrsagent, make minutes
17:05:15 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/22-rdb2rdf-minutes.html Ashok
17:06:32 [ericP]: ACTION: bertails to update DM for publication on 24 March
17:06:32 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - bertails
17:08:22 [ericP]: ACTION: bertails to update DM for publication on 24 March
17:09:35 [Ashok]: rsagent, create minutes
17:09:41 [ericP]: tx
17:09:58 [Ashok]: rrsagent, create minutes
17:09:58 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/22-rdb2rdf-minutes.html Ashok
17:10:56 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - bertails
17:11:54 [ericP]: oh weak
17:11:57 [ericP]: whatever
17:14:52 [ericP]: ACTION: bertails to update DM for publication on 24 March
17:14:52 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - bertails
17:15:04 [ted]: ted has joined #rdb2rdf
17:15:10 [ericP]: ACTION: bertails to update DM for publication on 24 March
17:15:10 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - bertails
17:15:23 [ted]: trackbot, status?
17:16:05 [ted]: action-1?
17:16:05 [trackbot]: ACTION-1 -- Michael Hausenblas to create a section in the Wiki for ISSUE-2 -- due 2009-10-08 -- CLOSED
17:16:05 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/1
17:16:31 [ted]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/users
17:16:38 [ted]: ACTION: bertails to update DM for publication on 24 March
17:16:38 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - bertails
17:16:50 [ted]: ACTION: betehess to update DM for publication on 24 March
17:16:51 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - betehess
17:18:02 [ted]: ACTION: alex to update DM for publication on 24 March
17:18:02 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - alex
17:20:29 [Ashok]: rrsagent, make minutes
17:20:29 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/22-rdb2rdf-minutes.html Ashok
17:26:00 [privera]: privera has joined #RDB2RDF
17:27:52 [Zakim]: SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
17:27:59 [Zakim]: +??P0
17:28:00 [Zakim]: -??P0
17:28:01 [Zakim]: SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
17:28:01 [Zakim]: Attendees were
17:47:49 [cygri]: cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
18:29:07 [betehess]: betehess has joined #RDB2RDF
18:38:37 [cygri]: cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
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