IRC log of html-a11y on 2011-03-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:00:25 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
16:00:25 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-html-a11y-irc
16:00:27 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
16:00:29 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 2119
16:00:29 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start now
16:00:30 [trackbot]: Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:00:30 [trackbot]: Date: 03 March 2011
16:00:42 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:00:42 [Zakim]: WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has not yet started, MikeSmith
16:00:43 [Zakim]: On IRC I see RRSAgent, JF, eric_carlson, MikeSmith, Marco_Ranon, kliehm, Judy, Zakim, MichaelC, trackbot, [tm]
16:00:51 [paulc]: paulc has joined #html-a11y
16:01:46 [oedipus]: oedipus has joined #html-a11y
16:01:57 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:01:58 [MichaelC]: zakim, this is 2119
16:02:05 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:02:10 [MikeSmith]: hmm
16:02:12 [paulc]: zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:02:13 [Zakim]: WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has not yet started, MikeSmith
16:02:14 [Zakim]: ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
16:02:17 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
16:02:19 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Eric, ??P20, John_Foliot, kliehm, [Microsoft]
16:02:26 [Zakim]: On IRC I see oedipus, paulc, RRSAgent, JF, eric_carlson, MikeSmith, Marco_Ranon, kliehm, Judy, Zakim, MichaelC, trackbot, [tm]
16:02:31 [MichaelC]: zakim, ??P20 is Mike_Smith
16:02:31 [paulc]: zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:02:32 [Zakim]: +Michael_Cooper
16:02:34 [kliehm]: zakim, mute me
16:02:34 [Zakim]: +paulc; got it
16:02:38 [Zakim]: +Gregory_Rosmaita
16:02:43 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, ??P20 is me
16:02:46 [Zakim]: +Mike_Smith; got it
16:02:48 [Zakim]: paulc was already listed in [Microsoft], paulc
16:02:51 [paulc]: paulc on manual mute
16:02:52 [Zakim]: kliehm should now be muted
16:02:59 [Zakim]: I already had ??P20 as Mike_Smith, MikeSmith
16:03:08 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:03:21 [MichaelC]: zakim, IPcaller is Marco_Ranon
16:03:22 [Zakim]: +Marco_Ranon; got it
16:03:41 [Marco_Ranon]: zakim, mute me
16:03:46 [Zakim]: Marco_Ranon should now be muted
16:04:34 [Marco_Ranon]: zakim, unmute me
16:04:34 [Zakim]: Marco_Ranon should no longer be muted
16:04:46 [Marco_Ranon]: zakim, mute me
16:04:46 [Zakim]: Marco_Ranon should now be muted
16:05:17 [oedipus]: scribe: Marco_Ranon
16:05:21 [MikeSmith]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Mar/0026.html
16:05:26 [oedipus]: scribenick: Marco_Ranon
16:06:47 [Zakim]: +Cynthia_Shelly
16:07:00 [richardschwerdtfe]: richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
16:07:02 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/201103_ftf/
16:07:05 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/201103_ftf/results
16:07:16 [MichaelC]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Mar/0026.html
16:07:19 [kliehm]: agenda?
16:07:32 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: survey for f2f meeting survey
16:07:58 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: enough people for the f2f
16:08:20 [Marco_Ranon]: CS: 11 March deadline for registration. Room booked.
16:08:42 [Marco_Ranon]: GJR: need access for remote users
16:08:49 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: we can use skype
16:09:01 [oedipus]: skype is fine
16:09:43 [oedipus]: i/MS: survey for f2f/TOPIC: Face2Face Planning/Schedule/
16:09:50 [Zakim]: +Rich
16:09:50 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: do we have two rooms for breakout group?
16:09:58 [Marco_Ranon]: CS: one big room
16:10:34 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: logistics lined up.
16:11:45 [Marco_Ranon]: RS: summary: ARIA will be included in HTML5
16:12:05 [Marco_Ranon]: ... minor issues but acceptable
16:12:12 [oedipus]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Mar/0027.html
16:12:31 [MikeSmith]: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Mar/0067.html response from Steve Faulkner to Hixie's request for specific list of changes requested
16:12:49 [Marco_Ranon]: ... authors might not use html5 control so for accessibility is important that aria is used
16:12:54 [MikeSmith]: -> http://www.html5accessibility.com/tests/aria-changes.html detailed list of changes from Steve Faulkner
16:14:12 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: positive resolution for tis issue, no strong objections
16:14:32 [oedipus]: i/RS: summary: ARIA will/TOPIC: ARIA in HTML Decision & Follow-Up/
16:14:35 [Marco_Ranon]: TOPIC: issue 30 (longdesc)
16:15:32 [Marco_Ranon]: PC: the proposal put together by mostly Laura Carlson have been considred by the chairs and the issue reopen for LC
16:15:49 [Marco_Ranon]: PC: we'll open a call for counter proposals
16:15:54 [JF]: +q
16:15:54 [Marco_Ranon]: .. any questions?
16:15:54 [MikeSmith]: q?
16:15:59 [oedipus]: ack jud
16:16:11 [oedipus]: ack JF
16:16:44 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:17:12 [Marco_Ranon]: JF: when is the issue going to be considred? when is the next step?
16:17:20 [Marco_Ranon]: PC: it's a LC issue
16:17:23 [oedipus]: chair: MikeSmith
16:17:52 [Marco_Ranon]: ... no dates that apply to pre-LC apply tho this issue
16:19:05 [Marco_Ranon]: ... this also applies to all other LC issues: the chairs are not asking the WG to do work on this until it's time for LC
16:19:15 [Marco_Ranon]: ... approx May
16:19:46 [oedipus]: q+
16:20:00 [oedipus]: q?
16:20:26 [Marco_Ranon]: ... but it might be appropriate for a11y people to talk discuss the issue with other people to try to reach consensus (option to be perhaps discussed off-line)
16:21:02 [JF]: +q
16:21:35 [oedipus]: it's called reality
16:21:38 [Marco_Ranon]: GJR: we've done that already but we want to make clear the need for the mechanism
16:21:51 [Marco_Ranon]: PC: we should discuss this option off-line
16:22:00 [oedipus]: we have reached the same dead end by travelling many routes
16:22:19 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: facilitators will talk about it
16:22:20 [oedipus]: those who objected didn't on factual/need grounds, but on faulty statistics
16:22:43 [oedipus]: ack oe
16:22:47 [oedipus]: ack JF
16:23:03 [Marco_Ranon]: JF: i think we need to have this conversations
16:23:13 [oedipus]: i've been discussing longdesc with IDPF/EPUB and they NEED longdesc and native describedby by March for their deadline
16:23:37 [Marco_Ranon]: TOPIC: bug 11893 (lexical processing rules for ARIA) question from Hixie
16:23:48 [Marco_Ranon]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Feb/0224.html
16:24:17 [MikeSmith]: "What's the spec I should use as the reference for these rules?"
16:24:21 [oedipus]: the reference is in Steve's proposed text
16:24:35 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: Hixie needs more info
16:24:48 [kliehm]: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11893
16:24:49 [Marco_Ranon]: RS: we are working on this. More info after the f2f
16:25:20 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: will respond to Hixie today
16:25:55 [kliehm]: zakim, kliehm is Martin_Kliehm
16:25:55 [Zakim]: +Martin_Kliehm; got it
16:25:59 [Marco_Ranon]: TOPIC: canvas subteam
16:26:19 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas
16:26:21 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas/Meetings
16:26:26 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas/Meetings/Minutes
16:26:43 [Marco_Ranon]: RS: worked on a counter proposal for issue-133.
16:26:58 [Marco_Ranon]: PC: march 22 the deadline
16:27:16 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131
16:27:25 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/CaretSelection
16:27:46 [paulc]: ISSUE-131 Call for Counter Proposals closes Mar 22: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0374.html
16:27:47 [MikeSmith]: http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-131
16:27:48 [oedipus]: call for alternate proposals for Canvas caret: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0374.html
16:27:56 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: working on issue 131
16:28:20 [Marco_Ranon]: s/MS: working on issue 131/RS: working on issue 131
16:28:50 [kliehm]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:28:50 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:29:13 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: March 22 is the deadline for all information needed for decisions prior LC
16:29:48 [Zakim]: -Mike_Smith
16:30:09 [kliehm]: s/RS: worked on a counter proposal for issue-133./RS: worked on a counter proposal for issue-131./
16:30:22 [kliehm]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:30:22 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:31:11 [oedipus]: RS: thanks to chairs for expediting the canvas decision
16:31:18 [oedipus]: PC: thanks to those who worked on Canvas
16:31:48 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, drop me
16:31:49 [Zakim]: sorry, MikeSmith, I do not see a party named 'MikeSmith'
16:31:52 [Marco_Ranon]: TOPIC: media subteam report
16:32:47 [Zakim]: +??P20
16:32:59 [MikeSmith]: Zakim, ??P20 is me
16:32:59 [Zakim]: +MikeSmith; got it
16:32:59 [Marco_Ranon]: JF: discussion on track. started with 8 solution, now need to discuss the progress at the f2f to meet the deadline
16:33:22 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/9
16:33:25 [Marco_Ranon]: ... discussed issue-9 yesterday. chairs proposed to close the issue
16:33:50 [oedipus]: call for consensus/counter proposal for HTML WG Issue-9 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0410.html
16:33:53 [Marco_Ranon]: ... there is concern that closing issue-9 might affect work in progress
16:34:05 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Requirements
16:34:39 [Marco_Ranon]: ... if issue-9 is closed we can still continue
16:35:20 [oedipus]: if hixie could at least be in IRC for pinging purposes that would be a benefit
16:35:22 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: Hixie might no be at the f2f, but we can ask him to join
16:36:31 [oedipus]: HTML WG Issue-9 "video-accessibility" associated with HTML WG bugs 5758, 8187, 8657, 8658, 8659, 8736
16:36:46 [Marco_Ranon]: JF: issue-9 was an old issue and we have other issues that relate to current work by the subteam
16:37:06 [oedipus]: q+ migrate or review associated bugs?
16:37:18 [oedipus]: q+ to ask if need to migrate or review issue-9 associated bugs?
16:37:20 [MikeSmith]: q?
16:37:29 [Marco_Ranon]: JF: just a couple of outstanding bug
16:38:17 [Marco_Ranon]: GJR: bug triage subteam sould check the bugs associated to issue-9
16:38:26 [oedipus]: HTML WG Issue-9 associated with HTML WG bugs 5758, 8187, 8657, 8658, 8659, 8736
16:38:49 [kliehm]: zakim, unmute me
16:38:49 [Zakim]: sorry, kliehm, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:38:54 [Marco_Ranon]: TOPIC: bug triage
16:39:11 [Marco_Ranon]: MC: we didn't meet. nothing to report
16:39:36 [oedipus]: ACTION: kliehm - have bug triage subgroup review the bugs associated with HTML WG ISSUE-9 (bugs 5758, 8187, 8657, 8658, 8659, 8736)
16:39:36 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-108 - - have bug triage subgroup review the bugs associated with HTML WG ISSUE-9 (bugs 5758, 8187, 8657, 8658, 8659, 8736) [on Martin Kliehm - due 2011-03-10].
16:39:42 [Marco_Ranon]: TOPIC: aria mapping subteam report
16:39:44 [kliehm]: we are at inbox 0 at the moment for the bug-triage sub-team.
16:40:03 [MikeSmith]: kliehm, cool, thanks
16:40:03 [Marco_Ranon]: RS: nothing to add to what said before about issue-129
16:40:20 [Marco_Ranon]: TOPIC: f2f planning
16:40:42 [MikeSmith]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Mar/0026.html
16:41:19 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: proposed topics for f2f in the agenda of this meeting
16:41:39 [Marco_Ranon]: ... we have critical mass
16:42:00 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: RS, do we have people for canvas discussion?
16:42:17 [Marco_Ranon]: RS: not sure if FrankO will be there
16:42:29 [kliehm]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:42:29 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:42:56 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: we might not have enough to do with canvas
16:43:09 [Zakim]: +Michael_Cooper.a
16:43:16 [MichaelC_]: MichaelC_ has joined #html-a11y
16:43:19 [Marco_Ranon]: ... we should have canvas and media breakouts at the same time
16:45:05 [oedipus]: caret in canvas: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131
16:45:25 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: Counter proposal to a11y TF proposal for Issue 131. (if it comes up by March 22)
16:45:27 [oedipus]: RichS change proposal for HTML WG Issue-131 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/CaretSelection
16:45:52 [Marco_Ranon]: RS: Aria.next: are there things we need for html5?
16:45:55 [oedipus]: call for counter proposals on caret in canvas (deadline 22 March 2011) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0374.html
16:46:22 [oedipus]: i/RS: Aria.next/TOPIC: ARIA Next and HTML5
16:46:24 [Marco_Ranon]: ... for example, do we want the equivalent of a longdesc in ARIA?
16:46:31 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:46:44 [JF]: +q
16:46:45 [Zakim]: -Michael_Cooper
16:47:27 [JF]: ack JF
16:47:49 [MikeSmith]: q?
16:48:01 [oedipus]: q-
16:48:21 [oedipus]: regrets: Laura_Carlson,Kenny_Johar,Silvia_Pfieffer
16:48:32 [oedipus]: regrets+ Janina_Sajka
16:48:35 [Marco_Ranon]: JF: there are still some accessibilty related open issues. we are supposed to hace change proposals by March 22
16:48:55 [Marco_Ranon]: ... should we discuss those issues?
16:49:38 [oedipus]: i/JF: there are still some accessiblity/TOPIC: Other Issues Which Need Immediate Attention/
16:50:04 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:50:13 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: we are expecting chairs to make decisions on issue 31 and 32
16:50:48 [MikeSmith]: q?
16:51:34 [Marco_Ranon]: JF: at the f2f we should have a bigger group to discuss open issues and not only breakout groups
16:51:38 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: agreed
16:51:58 [Marco_Ranon]: TOPIC: open action items
16:52:02 [oedipus]: i/JF: there are still some accessibilty related open issues/TOPIC: Other Issues WHich Need Immediate Attention/
16:52:05 [MikeSmith]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
16:52:22 [oedipus]: action-106?
16:52:22 [trackbot]: ACTION-106 -- Gregory Rosmaita to - prepare keyboard access high-level issues discussion for F2F -- due 2011-03-03 -- OPEN
16:52:22 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/106
16:52:34 [oedipus]: action-105?
16:52:34 [trackbot]: ACTION-105 -- Gregory Rosmaita to - review w3c bugzilla installation versus newest version 4, coordinate with those who volunteered, present options and needs -- due 2011-03-03 -- OPEN
16:52:34 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/105
16:52:39 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: action-106 on GJR
16:52:46 [Marco_Ranon]: GJR: will do that
16:53:19 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: action-105
16:53:43 [Marco_Ranon]: GJR: looking into this
16:54:15 [MikeSmith]: action-104: Rich says this one was done
16:54:15 [trackbot]: ACTION-104 Post question to HTML working group on whether to limit HTML elements in non-visible content such as the Canvas fallback content notes added
16:54:20 [MikeSmith]: close action-104
16:54:20 [trackbot]: ACTION-104 Post question to HTML working group on whether to limit HTML elements in non-visible content such as the Canvas fallback content closed
16:54:31 [oedipus]: GJR needs to reset due date for action-105 (review current installation now/round-robin improvement suggestions after F2F
16:54:57 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions
16:55:14 [oedipus]: GJR set some to "pending review"
16:55:37 [Marco_Ranon]: MS: to all, please close actions assigned to you that you are not taking up now, but comment on the reasons
16:55:45 [Zakim]: -Eric
16:55:46 [Zakim]: -Martin_Kliehm
16:55:46 [Zakim]: -Rich
16:55:48 [Zakim]: -Michael_Cooper.a
16:55:50 [Zakim]: -Cynthia_Shelly
16:55:55 [Zakim]: -John_Foliot
16:55:57 [Zakim]: -MikeSmith
16:56:06 [kliehm]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:56:06 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:56:09 [Marco_Ranon]: zackim, unmute me
16:56:12 [Marco_Ranon]: zakim, unmute me
16:56:12 [Zakim]: Marco_Ranon should no longer be muted
16:56:29 [Marco_Ranon]: zakim, please part
16:56:29 [Zakim]: leaving. As of this point the attendees were Eric, John_Foliot, Michael_Cooper, paulc, Gregory_Rosmaita, Mike_Smith, Marco_Ranon, Cynthia_Shelly, Rich, Martin_Kliehm, MikeSmith
16:56:29 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:56:43 [Marco_Ranon]: rssagent, make minutes
16:56:56 [Marco_Ranon]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:56:56 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-html-a11y-minutes.html Marco_Ranon
16:57:34 [MikeSmith]: Marco_Ranon, thanks much for scribing
16:59:09 [kliehm]: rrsagent, please part
16:59:09 [RRSAgent]: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-html-a11y-actions.rdf :
16:59:09 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: kliehm - have bug triage subgroup review the bugs associated with HTML WG ISSUE-9 (bugs 5758, 8187, 8657, 8658, 8659, 8736) [1]
16:59:09 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-html-a11y-irc#T16-39-36