13:58:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #poiwg
13:58:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/23-poiwg-irc
13:58:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:58:21 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #poiwg
13:58:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be UW_POI
13:58:23 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see UW_POI(POIWG)9:00AM already started
13:58:24 <trackbot> Meeting: Points of Interest Working Group Teleconference
13:58:24 <trackbot> Date: 23 February 2011
13:58:34 <Andy> Zakim, number
13:58:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'number', Andy
13:59:30 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa
13:59:49 <Zakim> -wcandillon
14:00:16 <Zakim> +wcandillon
14:00:26 <Luca> Luca is +wcandillon
14:00:37 <Luca> Zakim, Luca is +wcandillon
14:00:37 <Zakim> sorry, Luca, I do not recognize a party named 'Luca'
14:00:58 <vinod> vinod has joined #poiwg
14:01:07 <Zakim> +??P2
14:01:22 <Zakim> +??P4
14:01:27 <Andy> Zakim, who is on
14:01:27 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on', Andy
14:02:24 <jens> Zakim, who's talking?
14:02:29 <Andy> Zakim, who is here?
14:02:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see +3539149aaaa, wcandillon, ??P2, ??P4
14:02:35 <Zakim> jens, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: wcandillon (4%), ??P2 (51%), ??P4 (18%)
14:02:51 <ahill2> ahill2 has joined #poiwg
14:02:55 <Luca> Zakim, is wcandillon
14:02:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'is wcandillon', Luca
14:03:05 <jens> Zakim, I am P4
14:03:05 <Zakim> sorry, jens, I do not see a party named 'P4'
14:03:09 <jens> Zakim, I am ??P4
14:03:09 <Zakim> +jens; got it
14:03:21 <Luca> Zakim I am wcandillon
14:03:24 <vinod> +353... is vinod
14:03:30 <Ronald> zakim, i am with jens
14:03:30 <Zakim> +Ronald; got it
14:03:32 <Andy> On the phone is Jens, Andy, Ronald, Luca, Vinod
14:03:56 <Zakim> +??P5
14:04:08 <jens> Zakim, ??P5 is ahill2
14:04:08 <Zakim> +ahill2; got it
14:04:25 <jens> Zakim, who is here?
14:04:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see +3539149aaaa, wcandillon, ??P2, jens, ahill2
14:04:25 <Andy> Zakim, I am ??P2
14:04:27 <Zakim> jens has Ronald
14:04:27 <Zakim> +Andy; got it
14:04:42 <jens> Zakim, +3539149aaaa is vinod
14:04:42 <Zakim> +vinod; got it
14:04:46 <jens> Zakim, who is here?
14:04:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see vinod, wcandillon, Andy, jens, ahill2
14:04:47 <Zakim> jens has Ronald
14:04:52 <Luca> Zakim, wcandillon is Luca
14:04:52 <Zakim> +Luca; got it
14:05:52 <Andy> Points of Interest Recommendation - This Recommendation defines a format for the common components of a Point of Interest
14:05:52 <Andy> Points of Interest: Augmented Reality Vocabulary -This Working Group Note specifies a vocabulary of properties to enable Augmented Reality applications by attaching additional information to POI data, e.g. logo, business hours, or social media related properties
14:05:53 <Andy> Augmented Reality and Web Standards - This Working Group Note details how Augmented Reality applications may best re-use and/or influence current and future W3C Recommendations
14:06:30 <jens> Andy: end of april we need a first working draft
14:06:44 <jens> scribenick: jens
14:07:29 <jens> Andy: we seem to be losing momentum
14:08:28 <jens> jens: we seem to have ground to a halt trying to describe the primitives
14:08:43 <jens> jens: we got stuck in the object primitive
14:09:11 <Andy> +1 on ahill 
14:09:11 <jens> ahill2: we seem to have become removed from usable use cases
14:09:31 <jens> ahill2: we don't have anything close to implementations
14:09:45 <Andy> Action: Andy send 2 uses cases to the mailing list
14:09:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-29 - Send 2 uses cases to the mailing list [on Andrew Braun - due 2011-03-02].
14:11:36 <jens> jens: vinod had a good presentation at the AR standards meeting on linked data and POIs
14:11:49 <jens> vinod: I'll send that presentation to the list
14:12:43 <jens> andy: which day was that?
14:12:56 <jens> jens: don't rightly recall right now, send to the list after the call
14:13:55 <jens> andy: jens, could you elaborate on the AR standards meeting a bit more?
14:14:07 <jens> scribenick: ronald
14:14:27 <Ronald> jens: some more people were at the AR standards meeting compared to last time
14:14:51 <Ronald> Neil from nvidia, qualcomm, some more developers
14:14:59 <Ronald> strong focus on vision based AR
14:15:07 <Ronald> opposed to geolocation
14:15:36 <Ronald> crowd agreed, so there was a lot of discussion on standardizing vision AR
14:16:12 <Ronald> andy: sounds like what we talked about at the first F2F. Other ways of specifying location
14:16:28 <Ronald> ahill2: we have covered that a bit in the location primitive. e.g. relative location
14:17:06 <Ronald> andy: was it not put out of scope
14:17:07 <JonathanJ> JonathanJ has joined #poiwg
14:17:21 <Ronald> ahill2: no, we defended this one to remain in scope
14:18:08 <Ronald> jens: with neil travit (nvidia), what can hardware do for AR. Not much for this group, but going in the right direction
14:18:43 <Ronald> jens: the AR standards group should not build standards on its own, but leverage on other standards groups activities and identify gaps in current standards for what we want to do
14:19:06 <Ronald> jens: getting into other standards tracks and not try to reinvent the wheel
14:19:37 <Ronald> jens: OGC offered to host some AR standards initiatives
14:19:51 <Ronald> jens: was not there the last day, so don't know the response from the group
14:20:05 <Ronald> jens: all papers are online at arstandards.org and recorded on video
14:21:07 <Ronald> ahill2: got the feeling that we get a lot of discussion of how AR could be and less on how standards could help
14:21:39 <Ronald> jens: the better part of the meeting was coming together as a group and exchanging experiences
14:22:03 <Ronald> jens: not so much getting together and writing a standard
14:22:05 <ahill2> can the person with skype message alerts turn down their volume?
14:22:19 <Zakim> +??P6
14:22:38 <JonathanJ> zakim, +??P6 is JonathanJ
14:22:38 <Zakim> sorry, JonathanJ, I do not recognize a party named '+??P6'
14:23:04 <JonathanJ> zakim, ??P6 is JonathanJ
14:23:04 <Zakim> +JonathanJ; got it
14:23:34 <Ronald> ahill2: good idea to adopt existing standards and not throw away all existing work
14:24:40 <jens> andy: I heard the hotel used to be a prison?
14:24:48 <jens> ronald: correct, but it's a nice hotel
14:25:19 <Ronald> scribenick: jens
14:26:00 <jens> ronald: I sent out an e-mail about the hotel. we have a group discount but unfortunately, that does not work online. you'll have to send an e-mail or make a phone call
14:26:04 <Zakim> + +1.312.894.aabb
14:26:22 <jens> andy: who's coming? I'll make a poll to get a feeling of who's coming
14:26:26 <jens> ahill2: I'll come
14:26:29 <jens> Ronald: me too
14:26:31 <kseiler> kseiler has joined #poiwg
14:26:32 <jens> Jens: likewise
14:26:39 <jens> Luca: I'll be here
14:26:41 <kseiler> hi karl joined
14:26:47 <ahill2> +1 to regaining our momentum
14:26:55 <jens> andy: the main thing we want to get out of this is regaining momentum
14:27:06 <jens> s/we/I/
14:27:30 <kseiler> +1 feels stalled, let's get going again
14:27:46 <jens> andy: we've basically been two weeks without meeting, due to Pachube 2 wks ago and MWC last week
14:28:07 <jens> andy: and without activity on the list, we need to get going again
14:29:08 <jens> andy: a good piece might be to spend some time sketching out a use case we want to address
14:29:16 <jens> andy: step back a bit
14:29:36 <jens> ahill2: in my opinion, we need to get a review of where we are
14:30:03 <jens> ahill2: I don't think we can flesh out a use case on the phone here
14:30:26 <Andy> http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Core/Draft
14:30:43 <JonathanJ> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:30:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/23-poiwg-minutes.html JonathanJ
14:31:05 <jens> andy: in dec,ber we had a good face to face which came up with a core recommendation
14:31:25 <jens> andy: we did a decent job of going through the location primitive
14:32:26 <jens> andy: the relationship primitive was pretty straightforward. we basically want to be able to define relationships between POIs. details to be defined in implementations, with some examples in the spec
14:32:34 <jens> andy: and that's where we bogged down
14:32:49 <jens> andy: we had a big discussion about id's without getting anywhere
14:33:04 <jens> andy: time and categorization are similar re where we ware
14:33:50 <jens> andy: Jonathan has put forward an AR landscape doc. others have volunteered to help but no idea what happened after that
14:34:43 <jens> andy: we also have some documents around from the AR standards meetings
14:35:07 <jens> karl: the big stuff was categorization, time, id, metadata, relationships
14:35:40 <jens> karl: what we might best do is prep for the F2F so that we can have a really productive F2F
14:35:52 <jens> karl: have something to discuss on the F2F
14:36:09 <jens> andy: <recaps discussion before karl joined>
14:36:29 <jens> andy: I feel we kinda stalled and the others on the call seem to agree
14:36:58 <jens> ahill2: seems to me we could make progress on category and time. question is: how are we going to get this done?
14:37:22 <jens> ahill2: the way things seem to get done is somebody takes an individual stab at something
14:37:53 <jens> karl: we recently did a bunch of work with nokia and navteq on shared categorization
14:38:20 <jens> karl: I could try to take the lessons learned from that and send it out to the list
14:38:47 <jens> action: karl to make categorization model
14:38:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-30 - Make categorization model [on Karl Seiler - due 2011-03-02].
14:39:28 <jens> andy: do we have somebody on the call with experience in id's? somebody from the Layar team
14:39:43 <jens> ronald: Layar does not really use IDs and we don't have a lot of personal experience either
14:40:05 <jens> ahill2: I'm not feeling confident in this field either
14:40:29 <jens> ahill2: I think Gary could contribute in this area, he seems to be experienced
14:40:47 <jens> ??: this seems to be broader than this group, is there work in the W3C on IDs?
14:41:06 <jens> andy: I'll fish out in the W3C if there is some expert on ID's
14:41:31 <jens> ahill2: could we look for experts that could contribute here?
14:41:41 <jens> ahill2: Christine mentioned a guy called Henning
14:41:51 <jens> ahill2: RDF seems to be very ID-based too
14:42:05 <jens> andy: I think Dan was the RDF guy
14:42:24 <jens> ahill2: Christine mentioned another name of somebody who might come to help this group
14:42:31 <jens> andy: I don't recall
14:42:53 <jens> karl: what would be great to have in the F2F is to talk about what information we would like to see carried in the ID
14:43:16 <ahill2> +1 to Karls suggestion
14:43:17 <jens> karl: do we want key data represented in there? such as geodata? as opposed to just a 64 bit number
14:43:42 <Andy> +1 to jens
14:44:04 <jens> jens: do we want to call this out to the group over e-mail? just freely associate to seed the F2F discussion
14:44:38 <ahill2> thanks Jonathan, you are right
14:45:48 <jens> ahill2: there was an agenda item on "Primitive", what was that supposed to be for?
14:46:21 <jens> andy: we were kinda stalled. we did not have any discussions on the list the last two weeks so I wanted to get the discussion going again
14:46:38 <jens> andy: alex, did you want to say anything on your release?
14:47:01 <jens> ahill2: last week we released the Argon browser to the App Store, press release yesterday
14:47:19 <ahill2> argonapps.gatech.edu/valentine
14:47:28 <jens> ahill2: we created a valentine AR experience to demo how easy it works, basically
14:47:53 <jens> ahill2: we're trying to work out public facing websites vs. dev facing website etc.
14:48:15 <jens> ahil2:all of a sudden we have to kinda act like a business, which is a big leap for us from research
14:48:16 <vinod> well, If we feel convinced about the need and power of Linked Data concepts, I can talk to people here. 
14:48:28 <jens> ahill2: so, feedback is really appreciated
14:48:42 <vinod> that includes RDF, ID etc
14:49:02 <jens> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:49:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/23-poiwg-minutes.html jens
14:49:04 <Zakim> -vinod
14:49:06 <JonathanJ> bye
14:49:15 <Zakim> -jens
14:49:16 <Zakim> -Luca
14:49:27 <Zakim> - +1.312.894.aabb
14:49:31 <Zakim> -Andy
14:49:37 <Zakim> -JonathanJ
14:49:37 <Luca> Luca has left #poiwg
14:50:08 <Andy> trackbot, end meeting
14:50:08 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:50:08 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been jens, Ronald, ahill2, Andy, vinod, Luca, JonathanJ, +1.312.894.aabb
14:50:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:50:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/23-poiwg-minutes.html trackbot
14:50:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:50:10 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/23-poiwg-actions.rdf :
14:50:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Andy send 2 uses cases to the mailing list [1]
14:50:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/23-poiwg-irc#T14-09-45
14:50:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: karl to make categorization model [2]
14:50:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/02/23-poiwg-irc#T14-38-47