IRC log of html-a11y on 2011-02-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/10-html-a11y-irc
15:59:38 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:59:38 [Zakim]
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15:59:40 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
15:59:40 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
15:59:41 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:59:41 [trackbot]
Date: 10 February 2011
16:00:07 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Feb/0101.html
16:00:17 [MichaelC]
regrets: Léonie_Watson, Denis_Boudreau, Laura_Carlson
16:01:13 [janina]
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16:01:48 [jongund]
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16:01:50 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
16:01:50 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has not yet started, janina
16:01:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jongund, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, JF, Marco_Ranon, eric_carlson, davidb, Judy, MichaelC, trackbot, [tm]
16:02:08 [janina]
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16:02:09 [paulc]
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16:02:10 [MichaelC]
zakim, this is 2119
16:02:10 [Zakim]
ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM
16:02:13 [janina]
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16:02:17 [MichaelC]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:02:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.510.367.aaaa, +1.650.468.aabb, ??P43, [IPcaller], [Microsoft], ??P32, Michael_Cooper
16:02:27 [paulc]
zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:02:33 [Zakim]
+paulc; got it
16:02:36 [MichaelC]
zakim, aaaa is Eric_Carlson
16:02:42 [Zakim]
+Eric_Carlson; got it
16:02:44 [MichaelC]
zakim, aabb is John_Foliot
16:02:48 [Zakim]
+John_Foliot; got it
16:03:00 [MichaelC]
zakim, IPcaller is Steve_Faulkner
16:03:06 [Zakim]
+Steve_Faulkner; got it
16:03:46 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P43 is Janina_Sajka
16:03:53 [MichaelC]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:04:08 [Zakim]
+Janina_Sajka; got it
16:04:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Eric_Carlson, John_Foliot, Janina_Sajka, Steve_Faulkner, [Microsoft], ??P32, Michael_Cooper
16:04:15 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has paulc
16:04:16 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P32 is Jon_Gunderson
16:04:23 [janina]
Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
16:04:23 [janina]
Chair: Janina_Sajka & Mike_Smith
16:04:23 [janina]
agenda: this
16:04:23 [janina]
agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
16:04:23 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
16:04:24 [janina]
agenda+ Subteam Reports: Canvas; ARIA Mappings; Media; Bug Triage
16:04:26 [janina]
agenda+ Face to Face Agenda Discussion
16:04:27 [janina]
agenda+ Issue-30 longdesc--Updates?
16:04:30 [janina]
agenda+ Keyboard Access Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0105.html
16:04:31 [Zakim]
+Jon_Gunderson; got it
16:04:32 [janina]
agenda+ Forms Accessibility
16:04:35 [janina]
agenda+ be done
16:04:35 [Zakim]
+??P1
16:04:41 [Marco_Ranon]
zakim, ??P1 is me
16:04:59 [Zakim]
+Marco_Ranon; got it
16:05:40 [Stevef]
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16:06:09 [Stevef]
no review of subteam actions
16:06:13 [Marco_Ranon]
zakim, mute me
16:06:13 [Zakim]
Marco_Ranon should now be muted
16:06:43 [Stevef]
GJR will get to his action item later
16:06:56 [Stevef]
action 90 on m cooper not done
16:06:56 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - 90
16:07:11 [Stevef]
action 93 - can be closed (drag and drop)
16:07:11 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - 93
16:07:11 [MichaelC]
close action-93
16:07:11 [trackbot]
ACTION-93 find someone to work on change proposal for drag and drop closed
16:07:26 [richardschwerdtfe]
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16:07:38 [Stevef]
action 100 on janina unsure about what it is
16:07:39 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - 100
16:07:51 [MichaelC]
close action-100
16:07:51 [trackbot]
ACTION-100 - talk to Laura about decoupling of "what" from "where" in preparation for discussion in WAI CG closed
16:07:55 [Stevef]
janina- its complete
16:08:24 [Zakim]
+Rich
16:08:28 [Stevef]
modal attribute for aria action on gregory
16:10:38 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
16:12:01 [Stevef]
janina: we decide we were happy with it on ARIA, only
16:12:26 [Stevef]
JF: which path do we want to pursue on modal?
16:12:57 [MichaelC]
close action-102
16:12:57 [trackbot]
ACTION-102 - draft request for reconsideration on Issue-30 closed
16:13:01 [Stevef]
MC: action on janina draft reconsideration on issue 30
16:13:29 [Stevef]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126
16:14:00 [MichaelC]
action-103: seems to favour http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126
16:14:00 [trackbot]
ACTION-103 Compare our WBS results to the 5 existing change proposals on alternative text, looking for best match. notes added
16:14:13 [MichaelC]
close action-103
16:14:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-103 Compare our WBS results to the 5 existing change proposals on alternative text, looking for best match. closed
16:14:50 [MichaelC]
agenda+ Alt discussion
16:15:20 [Stevef]
subteam reports
16:16:46 [Stevef]
RS: google is implementing canvas subtree dom for chrome, will be adding focus ring support with caret not included, we have an upcoming poll on aria, so am working on that
16:17:59 [Stevef]
RS: chrome was not working with main screen reader vendor, but now maki8ng good progres, chuck pritchard is developing cnavas editor
16:21:52 [Stevef]
RS; before ARIA industry went to build rich internet app, the problem we had was because developers need to do this, they were prohibited from selling to government, the only reason they couln't make it accessible beacuse the ability for authors to amke it accessble
16:22:52 [Stevef]
RS: hixie wants us to provide use cases for every possible use of html, authors have busieness reasons for doing these
16:23:56 [Stevef]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-129-objection-poll/
16:23:58 [Stevef]
RS: do we recommend that authors use standard controls as defined, YES, but if the author wants to go in and do soemthing
16:24:20 [Stevef]
accessibility should not be an inhibitor
16:25:33 [Stevef]
cynthia: one par of his argument has merit, one of the things he struggles with understanding, aria is fine with previous versions of \HTML, he thjinks he has solved the problem doesn't want to confuse thinsg with non native controls
16:25:40 [paulc]
q+
16:25:46 [Stevef]
q+
16:26:34 [Stevef]
RS: in our change proposal and in ARIA it states that authors should use standard controls
16:27:12 [Stevef]
cynthiaL: should acknowledge there is an improvement
16:28:42 [janina]
q?
16:28:43 [paulc]
The survey on ISSUE-129 closes on Feb 17. Are others going to reply to the survey?
16:29:52 [MikeSmith]
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16:29:55 [janina]
q?
16:31:31 [paulc]
Steve's response is in: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAinHTML5-hixiecounter
16:32:15 [paulc]
ack cyn
16:32:18 [paulc]
ack paulc
16:32:33 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
16:33:46 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper
16:34:32 [jongund]
q+
16:34:32 [Stevef]
RS: people can contribute to the group response or they can write their own
16:34:40 [Stevef]
q-
16:34:41 [janina]
ack s
16:35:47 [paulc]
ack cyn
16:35:56 [janina]
q?
16:36:02 [janina]
ack j
16:36:03 [Stevef]
paulc: update wiki to have support section
16:36:23 [Stevef]
johngund: who decides?
16:36:40 [Stevef]
paulc: chairs decide
16:37:03 [Stevef]
paulc: looking at strength of objections this is bad, but why
16:37:38 [Stevef]
johngund: concept that authors have free choice isn't a strong argument?
16:37:40 [Stevef]
paulc: no comment
16:38:22 [JF]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0205.html
16:38:54 [Stevef]
JF: media, 2 issues left to resolve, 1. how to integrate multimedia content, sylvia has posted note about this
16:39:32 [Stevef]
jf: there are 7 proposals about how to acheive this, sense of urgency, request for change proposal by 21st of mont
16:39:52 [Stevef]
janaina: claify this is for multiple binary resources
16:40:08 [Stevef]
jf: but agout identical resources
16:40:46 [Stevef]
JF: 2 time stamp formats lining up, webvtt and simpte tt, superset of timetext langauge
16:41:07 [Stevef]
jf: should we say anyhting further or let market forces work it out
16:41:13 [janina]
q?
16:41:21 [Marco_Ranon]
zakim, unmute me
16:41:21 [Zakim]
Marco_Ranon should no longer be muted
16:41:30 [JF]
s/simpte tt/SMPTE-TT
16:42:02 [Stevef]
marco: not a lot happening on the bug front
16:42:10 [Marco_Ranon]
zakim, mute me
16:42:11 [Zakim]
Marco_Ranon should now be muted
16:42:43 [janina]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/InstateLongdesc#Suggested_Alternatives_Are_Not_Viable_Solutions
16:42:50 [Stevef]
janina: longdesc, theer is a lengthy proposal from laura, intended to function as a request to reconsider longdesc
16:43:13 [Stevef]
janaina: thinks its substantive, needs furtehjr tweaking
16:44:29 [Stevef]
janina: thinks wai cg needs to be canvassed about this
16:45:58 [Stevef]
jf: one note, epub working group looking at html5, want to wait before developing a solution, but may bake their own if nothing comes out
16:46:16 [paulc]
q+
16:47:40 [paulc]
q-
16:47:45 [Stevef]
paulc: won't say epub group doesn't want soultions to issues, but thinks last call tiemframe is fine
16:48:38 [janina]
q?
16:50:00 [Stevef]
Correct and Improve <img> Conformance Checker Guidance http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126
16:50:09 [JF]
SF: People want to have a number of requirements, and don't want others
16:50:22 [JF]
which the second option (url posted) seems to cover most of it
16:51:04 [JF]
there is a difference between the machine check-able content, and then content that is not machine-checkable
16:51:29 [JF]
(This is all related to Issue 31)
16:51:39 [JF]
there are 3 main parts to Issue 31
16:51:56 [JF]
guidance to validation tools
16:52:16 [JF]
image element definition verbiage - what is the source
16:52:44 [JF]
the normative content
16:52:55 [JF]
3rd issues - text alternatives and their values
16:52:58 [janina]
q?
16:53:19 [Stevef]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElementSurveyConformaceChoices
16:53:36 [JF]
all of this information is in the link provided by steve
16:54:07 [JF]
JS: by memory, option 2 aligns with the consensus from this group, WAI, etc.
16:55:04 [JF]
JS: the second issue raised by Laura, is also covered by the WAI consensus postion, that guidance and techniques be under the WAI
16:55:13 [JF]
where people go to look for that kind of guidance
16:55:30 [JF]
as opposed to where they look for machine conformance guidance
16:55:54 [JF]
This is on the WAI CG agenda, but has not yet been discussed by that group
16:56:09 [JF]
but has not yet been addressed
16:56:24 [JF]
SF: we need to decide on a time line that is acceptable to the WG Chairs
16:56:51 [JF]
JS: is there any opposition to splitting this out this way?
16:57:19 [JF]
JS: seems we are on the right track here
16:57:56 [JF]
SF: if we do agree on this as a group (or as individuals) we should be reviewing this to ensure that we have robust arguments for the points we are in support of
16:58:05 [JF]
JS: this is the purpose of the survey
16:59:58 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
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17:02:43 [Zakim]
-Eric_Carlson
17:03:23 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
17:03:30 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
17:03:31 [Zakim]
-Rich
17:03:40 [Zakim]
-Jon_Gunderson
17:03:48 [Zakim]
-Marco_Ranon
17:03:55 [Zakim]
-Steve_Faulkner
17:03:56 [JF]
zakim, bye
17:03:56 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #html-a11y
17:03:56 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.510.367.aaaa, +1.650.468.aabb, Michael_Cooper, paulc, Eric_Carlson, John_Foliot, Steve_Faulkner, Janina_Sajka, Jon_Gunderson,
17:03:59 [Zakim]
... Marco_Ranon, Rich, Cynthia_Shelly
17:04:18 [JF]
rrsagent, make log public
17:04:25 [JF]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:04:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/02/10-html-a11y-minutes.html JF
17:09:00 [janina]
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