IRC log of sparql on 2011-02-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:48:01 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #sparql

14:48:01 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/01-sparql-irc

14:48:03 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

14:48:03 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #sparql

14:48:05 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 77277

14:48:05 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes

14:48:06 [trackbot]

Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

14:48:06 [trackbot]

Date: 01 February 2011

14:48:08 [LeeF]

zakim, this will be sparql

14:48:08 [Zakim]

ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes

14:48:40 [kasei]

hmm?

14:48:56 [LeeF]

can you call me direct? 617-553-1060

14:49:27 [ocorby]

ocorby has joined #sparql

14:52:22 [LeeF]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/bind/bind08.rq

14:55:29 [AxelPolleres]

AxelPolleres has joined #sparql

14:56:08 [LeeF]

TP1

14:56:10 [LeeF]

TP2

14:56:16 [LeeF]

OPTIONAL { TP3 }

14:56:18 [LeeF]

TP4

14:56:24 [AxelPolleres]

agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2011-02-01

14:56:47 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:56:47 [Zakim]

SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has not yet started, AxelPolleres

14:56:48 [Zakim]

On IRC I see AxelPolleres, ocorby, Zakim, RRSAgent, karl, kasei, SteveH, AndyS, LeeF, iv_an_ru, pgearon, sandro, trackbot, ericP

14:56:59 [AxelPolleres]

trackbot, start meeting

14:57:01 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

14:57:03 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 77277

14:57:03 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

14:57:04 [trackbot]

Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

14:57:04 [trackbot]

Date: 01 February 2011

14:57:10 [SteveH__]

SteveH__ has joined #sparql

14:57:13 [cbuilara]

cbuilara has joined #sparql

14:57:18 [AxelPolleres]

chair: Axel Polleres

14:57:20 [Zakim]

SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

14:57:27 [Zakim]

+??P14

14:57:30 [AxelPolleres]

regrets: Chime, AlexPassant

14:57:31 [AndyS]

zakim, P14 is me

14:57:31 [Zakim]

sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'P14'

14:57:38 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P14 is me

14:57:38 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:57:42 [Zakim]

+pgearon

14:58:03 [Zakim]

+??P16

14:58:09 [cbuilara]

zakim, ??P16 is me

14:58:09 [Zakim]

+cbuilara; got it

14:58:13 [Zakim]

+AxelPolleres

14:58:26 [Zakim]

+ +420.8.439.aaaa

14:58:32 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:58:32 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, pgearon, cbuilara, AxelPolleres, +420.8.439.aaaa

14:58:41 [SteveH__]

Zakim, aaaa is [Garlik]

14:58:41 [Zakim]

+[Garlik]; got it

14:58:43 [Zakim]

+ocorby

14:58:49 [SteveH__]

Zakim, [Garlik] is temporarily me

14:58:49 [Zakim]

+SteveH__; got it

14:58:51 [NicoM]

NicoM has joined #sparql

14:59:20 [LeeF]

Filter(Group(Bind(BGP(...) ...)))

14:59:49 [Zakim]

+Lee_Feigenbaum

14:59:49 [bglimm]

bglimm has joined #sparql

14:59:51 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, who is speaking?

14:59:53 [SteveH]

Zakim, SteveH__ is me

14:59:53 [Zakim]

+SteveH; got it

15:00:05 [Zakim]

AxelPolleres, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Lee_Feigenbaum (21%), AxelPolleres (21%), ocorby (4%)

15:00:12 [Zakim]

+kasei

15:00:37 [Zakim]

+ +1.973.4.aabb

15:00:49 [kasei]

scribenick: kasei

15:01:17 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:01:17 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, pgearon, cbuilara, AxelPolleres, SteveH, ocorby, Lee_Feigenbaum, kasei, +1.973.4.aabb

15:01:45 [AndyS]

zakim, who is speaking?

15:01:55 [Zakim]

AndyS, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Lee_Feigenbaum (22%), cbuilara (44%), AxelPolleres (9%)

15:02:08 [MattPerry]

MattPerry has joined #sparql

15:02:10 [cbuilara]

zakim, mute me

15:02:10 [Zakim]

cbuilara should now be muted

15:02:22 [Zakim]

+bglimm

15:02:33 [NicoM]

don't see me on the list, but its not me

15:02:35 [Zakim]

+sandro

15:02:41 [bglimm]

Zakim, mute me

15:02:42 [NicoM]

so aabb is not me

15:02:42 [Zakim]

bglimm should now be muted

15:02:53 [Zakim]

+MattPerry

15:02:56 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:02:58 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, pgearon, cbuilara (muted), AxelPolleres, SteveH, ocorby, Lee_Feigenbaum, kasei, +1.973.4.aabb, bglimm (muted), sandro, MattPerry

15:03:17 [kasei]

assign them all the work

15:03:28 [bglimm]

+1 to kasei

15:03:33 [LeeF]

:-D

15:03:43 [Zakim]

- +1.973.4.aabb

15:04:06 [kasei]

topic: admin

15:04:08 [NicoM]

ok it was me, but don't have an us number...

15:04:21 [AxelPolleres]

PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2011-01-25

15:04:33 [AxelPolleres]

nico, please re-dial...

15:04:33 [sandro]

NicoM, yeah, CallerID sometimes behaves very strangely.

15:04:47 [AndyS]

404

15:04:49 [Zakim]

+ +49.911.973.4.aacc

15:05:00 [NicoM]

zakim, +49 is me

15:05:00 [Zakim]

+NicoM; got it

15:05:18 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: check minutes from last time

15:05:18 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - check

15:05:30 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: axel to check minutes from last time

15:05:30 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-380 - Check minutes from last time [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-08].

15:06:17 [AndyS]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/CommentResponse:JP-3

15:06:22 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: haven't addressed comments table yet. if you've got feedback, let us know.

15:06:40 [kasei]

... please look over JP-3 so we can approve it.

15:06:49 [kasei]

... any other comment responses drafted?

15:07:15 [MattPerry]

sure

15:07:23 [AxelPolleres]

matt to scribe next week

15:07:35 [kasei]

topic: to last call

15:07:42 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call

15:07:44 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: wiki page for last call

15:08:12 [kasei]

... query document status? Andy or Steve?

15:08:42 [kasei]

SteveH: there's an outstanding issue about algebra. need to discuss with Andy. Other than that it's OK to go.

15:08:54 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: should it be listed on the last call page?

15:09:03 [kasei]

SteveH: don't know the specifics. hard to list it.

15:09:26 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: keep us up to date on that page and let us know when it's ready for review.

15:09:52 [kasei]

SteveH: hope to get it done this week, but hard to predict.

15:10:24 [kasei]

AndyS: same position as SteveH. need to do some checking, discuss recent issues that came up this week.

15:10:32 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: Update document.

15:10:47 [kasei]

... issues from Alex.

15:11:15 [kasei]

... for formal model we'll have a meeting and discuss this week. hope to have something there next week.

15:11:59 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/To_Last_Call

15:12:41 [kasei]

pgearon: have addressed some of the items on the wiki page.

15:12:54 [kasei]

... bnodes in delete templates. delete and graph triples containing bnodes.

15:13:04 [kasei]

... done work on the document, but haven't checked it in yet.

15:13:21 [kasei]

... don't know the details of these issues yet.

15:13:40 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: talked briefly with Alex. he said he'd take care of his comments.

15:13:51 [kasei]

... hope to have updates next week.

15:13:59 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: protocol document.

15:14:00 [LeeF]

No

15:14:09 [kasei]

LeeF: no news.

15:14:20 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: service description.

15:15:56 [kasei]

kasei: new comment from Rob Vesse regarding both http protocol and service description.

15:16:44 [kasei]

... need to address the comment, but don't think it will result in substantive changes to SD document.

15:16:46 [AxelPolleres]

... comment by RV should be added to comments table, touches on both SD and HTTP update, more Chime to Greg?

15:17:20 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: http protocol

15:17:40 [kasei]

... a few comments that need to be taken into account. can assign actions to reviewers.

15:18:04 [AndyS]

Fine - if Chime is OK with that.

15:18:14 [kasei]

... Andy, Steve, and Nick to review.

15:18:16 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: SteveH to review Uniform HTTP Protocol

15:18:16 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-381 - Review Uniform HTTP Protocol [on Steve Harris - due 2011-02-08].

15:18:44 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: axel contact NickH to review Uniform HTTP Protocol

15:18:44 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-382 - Contact NickH to review Uniform HTTP Protocol [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-08].

15:19:02 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Andy to review Uniform HTTP Protocol

15:19:02 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-383 - Review Uniform HTTP Protocol [on Andy Seaborne - due 2011-02-08].

15:19:05 [LeeF]

:-)

15:19:22 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: entailment document.

15:19:28 [bglimm]

Zakim, unmute me

15:19:28 [Zakim]

bglimm should no longer be muted

15:19:32 [kasei]

... two actions on Kendal and Zhe Wu.

15:19:38 [kasei]

bglimm: haven't heard back on reviews yet.

15:19:54 [kasei]

MattPerry: can pring Zhe about review.

15:19:59 [kasei]

bglimm: can ping Kendall.

15:20:04 [bglimm]

Zakim, mute me

15:20:04 [Zakim]

bglimm should now be muted

15:20:07 [cbuilara]

zakim, unmute me

15:20:07 [Zakim]

cbuilara should no longer be muted

15:20:07 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: Federated Query

15:20:09 [LeeF]

Ready to go

15:20:20 [kasei]

cbuilara: ready for review.

15:20:22 [AndyS]

q+

15:20:30 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: Lee and Axel to be assigned for review.

15:20:37 [kasei]

AndyS: can we discuss where BINDINGS go?

15:20:49 [LeeF]

My understanding is that it needs to be removed from federated query and just reference query

15:20:57 [AndyS]

q-

15:21:30 [cbuilara]

I will add a remark to the Fed query document saying that it will be removed

15:21:31 [Zakim]

-NicoM

15:21:41 [sandro]

zakim, who is talking?

15:21:43 [cbuilara]

and left only in the main query document

15:21:51 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: is there duplicate text in the two documents?

15:21:51 [Zakim]

sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AxelPolleres (80%)

15:22:02 [Zakim]

+NicoM

15:22:21 [kasei]

cbuilara: duplicated text. idea was to remove it in the federation document.

15:22:35 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: should be ready for review by end of today?

15:22:37 [kasei]

cbuilara: yes

15:22:42 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Axel to review fed query

15:22:42 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-384 - Review fed query [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-08].

15:22:48 [LeeF]

aye

15:22:53 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Lee to review fed query

15:22:53 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-385 - Review fed query [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-02-08].

15:23:05 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: JSON Results

15:23:11 [kasei]

... got reviews in already

15:23:23 [AndyS]

No progress on comments

15:23:35 [kasei]

AndyS: no progress on comments yet. been focusing on query document.

15:23:59 [kasei]

topic: BIND revisted (bind08 test)

15:24:22 [kasei]

LeeF: there was discussion on mailing list about bind08

15:24:35 [kasei]

... some confusion because of laxness in discussion of BGPs and Groups.

15:24:57 [kasei]

... think it is mostly resolved now. BINDs ends a BGP, doesn't end a Group.

15:25:21 [kasei]

... this means that bind08 test in which filter comes before bind has the same results as bind05 test where filter comes after the bind.

15:25:38 [kasei]

... updated the results in cvs today.

15:25:47 [kasei]

... believe all the bind tests are good now and can be approved.

15:26:01 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: any more comments?

15:26:07 [AndyS]

I agree with LeeF

15:26:44 [kasei]

LeeF: can we approve the tests?

15:26:54 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: will discuss in test status topic.

15:27:09 [AxelPolleres]

topic: short name and title of JSON doc

15:27:16 [AxelPolleres]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0140.html

15:27:20 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: concrete proposal from Andy.

15:27:57 [kasei]

... keep same name; name it with same convention as others (starting with "sparql11")

15:28:05 [AxelPolleres]

"SPARQL 1.1 Query Results JSON Format" /sparql11-results-json/

15:28:31 [kasei]

... no other proposals. agreenment on option 2.

15:28:37 [kasei]

... anybody against this?

15:28:38 [LeeF]

option 2 ++++

15:29:14 [AxelPolleres]

PROPOSED: set title of JSON results document to "SPARQL 1.1 Query Results JSON Format" with short name /sparql11-results-json/

15:29:15 [pgearon]

seconded

15:29:30 [LeeF]

:-)

15:29:39 [bglimm]

+1

15:29:46 [AxelPolleres]

RESOLVED: set title of JSON results document to "SPARQL 1.1 Query Results JSON Format" with short name /sparql11-results-json/

15:30:01 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: what do we need to do to approve the short name?

15:30:13 [kasei]

sandro: this is FPWD?

15:30:18 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: it's been out as a Note before.

15:30:36 [kasei]

sandro: we should go through the FPWD approval. that's when the short name is approved.

15:30:47 [kasei]

LeeF: FPWD has to be distinct from LC draft?

15:30:52 [kasei]

sandro: no, they can be the same.

15:31:07 [kasei]

... not sure it's technically a FPWD, but err on the safe side.

15:31:36 [kasei]

protocol?

15:32:09 [kasei]

sandro: will send email.

15:32:28 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: sandro email to W3C to get shortname approved for JSON result doc

15:32:28 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-386 - Email to W3C to get shortname approved for JSON result doc [on Sandro Hawke - due 2011-02-08].

15:32:45 [AxelPolleres]

topic: Test status

15:32:46 [kasei]

topic: test status

15:33:12 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: wanted to go through test case directories and see where we are.

15:33:32 [kasei]

LeeF: as actions are completed, we'll discuss and move to approval.

15:33:41 [AndyS]

q+ about manifest-all (at end of tests item)

15:33:50 [AndyS]

q+ to talk about manifest-all (at end of tests item)

15:34:13 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: ACTIONS 368...

15:34:44 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION-367

15:35:00 [kasei]

... 367: json results format. added 4 test cases for json results format.

15:35:04 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/json-res/

15:35:20 [kasei]

... ask people to review those. will discuss next time.

15:35:36 [kasei]

... 368: syntax tests on Andy. done.

15:35:49 [AxelPolleres]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0117.html

15:36:20 [kasei]

... not sure if these test cases can be approved.

15:36:29 [kasei]

LeeF: need at least one other set of eyes or implementation.

15:36:56 [kasei]

AndyS: I hope they are comprehensive.

15:37:08 [kasei]

LeeF: does this include negative syntax tests?

15:37:12 [kasei]

AndyS: yes, a few.

15:37:40 [kasei]

LeeF: one challenge here is other than Andy and Greg, none of us have implemented enough of 1.1 to use our implementations here.

15:37:56 [kasei]

SteveH: dajobe's parser isn't too bad. long way from 100%, but does a lot.

15:38:03 [kasei]

... doesn't do property paths or subqueries.

15:38:09 [kasei]

... or (?)

15:38:24 [kasei]

... parser we use in 5Store is more complete, but don't implement much of it. can do syntax tests.

15:38:46 [kasei]

LeeF: even if partial implementation, run it and then eyeball failures to see if it looks ok.

15:39:17 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: need to rely on Greg and Andy's approval?

15:39:21 [SteveH]

I will try to run it for raptor, but don't handle current test syntax

15:39:27 [kasei]

AndyS: what about eric's?

15:39:50 [kasei]

sandro: thought he had said something about updating it. did grammar work, but not sure about what else.

15:40:10 [kasei]

sandro: will ping eric about syntax tests.

15:40:19 [AxelPolleres]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0117.html

15:40:29 [AxelPolleres]

... sandro will ask eric to look at those.

15:40:35 [AndyS]

Negative tests matter more for SPARQL 1.1 as there are some explicit errors this time round.

15:41:06 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: 369: property paths on mperry.

15:41:24 [kasei]

AndyS: not sure minutes of propery paths meeting are achievable.

15:41:31 [sandro]

(email to ericP sent)

15:41:37 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: does this imply issues on last call documents?

15:41:44 [kasei]

AndyS: this needs to be addressed before LC.

15:42:28 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: 370: function tests on Greg.

15:43:29 [kasei]

kasei: added several function tests, but more room for testing error conditions.

15:43:36 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: 371: bind tests on Lee.

15:44:04 [kasei]

LeeF: let's approve 8 bind tests.

15:44:26 [AxelPolleres]

PROPOSED: approve tests bind01-bind08 in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/bind/

15:44:32 [SteveH]

abstain (on the basis that I've not run them)

15:44:39 [LeeF]

seconded

15:44:51 [kasei]

LeeF: haven't run them.

15:45:01 [kasei]

AndyS: keen for two implementations.

15:45:47 [kasei]

kasei: I pass 7/8 of the tests.

15:46:20 [kasei]

LeeF: if we wait for 2 implementations to pass all tests, we'll never approve the whole test suite.

15:47:01 [AndyS]

seconded

15:47:17 [AxelPolleres]

RESOLVED: approve tests bind01-bind08 in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/bind/

15:47:47 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: LeeF will change manifests to mark as approved.

15:47:48 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: mark bind01-08 as approved in manifest file

15:47:48 [trackbot]

Sorry, couldn't find user - mark

15:48:02 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: lee to mark bind01-08 as approved in manifest file

15:48:03 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-387 - Mark bind01-08 as approved in manifest file [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2011-02-08].

15:48:28 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: 372: negation tests on Chime.

15:49:05 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: 373: subquery tests on Axel. haven't touched them yet.

15:49:14 [kasei]

... 374: project expression tests on Lee.

15:49:17 [kasei]

LeeF: nothing to report yet.

15:49:34 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: 375: construct where tests on Axel. worked on these today.

15:49:44 [kasei]

... 6 tests for CONSTRUCT WHERE. small issues which have been fixed.

15:49:54 [kasei]

... Andy agreed with fixes.

15:49:57 [AxelPolleres]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0162.html

15:50:19 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/construct/

15:50:53 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: only tested by copying construct template and running on systems with CONSTRUCT {} WHERE {}, not CONSTRUCT WHERE {}

15:51:19 [LeeF]

ok with me

15:51:59 [AxelPolleres]

PROPOSED: Approve testcases constructwhere01-06 in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/construct/

15:52:46 [AndyS]

seconded

15:52:51 [AxelPolleres]

seconded

15:53:04 [AxelPolleres]

RESOLVED: Approve testcases constructwhere01-06 in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/tests/data-sparql11/construct/

15:53:17 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: will mark them as approved.

15:53:28 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Axel to mark construyctwhere01-06 as approved in manifest file

15:53:28 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-388 - Mark construyctwhere01-06 as approved in manifest file [on Axel Polleres - due 2011-02-08].

15:54:00 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: 376: BINDINGS tests on Carlos

15:54:04 [kasei]

cbuilara: not much progress yet.

15:54:34 [ericP]

ericP, acks mail from sandro

15:54:35 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: aggregate tests which we haven't approved yet.

15:55:01 [AxelPolleres]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011JanMar/0168.html

15:55:43 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: aggregate tests from greg. disagreement between Greg and Andy on AVG, SUM that had to do with precision of results, encoding of exponents.

15:55:48 [kasei]

... not sure if it's solved.

15:56:04 [kasei]

AndyS: recall the issue.

15:56:15 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: please have a look at the email thread and let us know if we can proceed.

15:56:59 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: 7 test cases which we already covered in October proposed to be approved, but no resolution (agg01-agg07)

15:57:13 [kasei]

... pending action 301 on Steve to look over test cases.

15:57:21 [kasei]

... if they're fine they can be approved.

15:57:44 [kasei]

SteveH: hoping to have code to read manifest format. once that's done can run tests through 4store engine.

15:57:45 [AndyS]

agg08 ("COUNT 8") uses non-key in expressions => required syntax error

15:58:32 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: agg08 had discussion about this being a syntax error. should be changed to a negative syntax test.

15:58:55 [kasei]

... could also be fixed. add agg08b.

15:59:03 [AndyS]

?? Delete the test - make sure its in the bad syntax suite

15:59:27 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: all negative syntax tests go into the bad syntax suite?

15:59:39 [kasei]

AndyS: might be easier to get through the test suite if the negative syntax tests are grouped together.

15:59:43 [kasei]

... no strong preference.

15:59:52 [LeeF]

No strong preference either.

16:00:09 [Zakim]

-MattPerry

16:00:19 [kasei]

AxelPolleres: want 1-2 people to look at email and let us know how to move forward.

16:00:46 [Zakim]

-Lee_Feigenbaum

16:00:48 [Zakim]

-bglimm

16:00:48 [Zakim]

-SteveH

16:00:49 [Zakim]

-sandro

16:00:50 [Zakim]

-pgearon

16:00:52 [Zakim]

-ocorby

16:00:52 [Zakim]

-AxelPolleres

16:00:54 [kasei]

minutes publishing url? (I forget every time)

16:00:54 [Zakim]

-NicoM

16:00:59 [Zakim]

-cbuilara

16:01:01 [Zakim]

-AndyS

16:01:07 [Zakim]

-kasei

16:01:08 [Zakim]

SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

16:01:08 [AxelPolleres]

adjourned

16:01:09 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/

16:01:13 [Zakim]

Attendees were AndyS, pgearon, cbuilara, AxelPolleres, +420.8.439.aaaa, ocorby, Lee_Feigenbaum, SteveH, kasei, +1.973.4.aabb, bglimm, sandro, MattPerry, +49.911.973.4.aacc, NicoM

16:01:24 [AxelPolleres]

rrsagent, make records public

16:01:52 [kasei]

thanks Axel

16:01:52 [AxelPolleres]

greg, will you do the minutes? (I'll take care of last week's minutes in the meantime...)

16:01:57 [kasei]

yeah

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18:14:50 [kasei]

AndyS: around?

18:42:25 [AndyS]

kasei

18:42:48 [kasei]

i had a question abou the CONSTRUCT WHERE syntax in the grammar

18:43:36 [kasei]

is there a reason TriplesTemplate is optional is the pattern?

18:43:49 [kasei]

i.e. would anyone ever want to do CONSTRUCT WHERE {} (empty pattern)

18:44:07 [kasei]

seems like a rather odd query to want.

18:47:43 [AndyS]

It is odd but it's useful to not make special cases (code generation - it's easier to allow "nothing" operations). Same for Update. It would need yet-another-rule.

18:49:07 [kasei]

i don't follow. why wouldn't it just involve changing the existing rule for the shortcut syntax to '{' TriplesTemplate '}' (drop the ? modifier)

19:27:49 [AndyS]

The important point is the code generation. Same happens with updat eBTW.

19:29:20 [kasei]

I'm not understanding why this would be a problem. It's obviously a design decision, but are you saying it wouldn't be as simple as dropping the ? qualifier?

19:31:07 [kasei]

also, can you explain what the syntax error in syntax-bindings-09.rq is?

19:31:09 [kasei]

SELECT * { } BINDINGS ?x ?y { (1 2) (3) }

19:31:19 [kasei]

does that second binding need 'UNDEF' as a second value?

19:47:00 [AndyS]

Yes, it needs an UNDEF (else is it "(3 UNDEF)" or "(UNDEF 3)")

19:47:09 [kasei]

got it, thanks

19:48:02 [AndyS]

Experience from users is that regularity helps those writing queries and updates by program. print "{" ; print all list ; print "}"

19:48:09 [AndyS]

Most true for INSERT DATA

19:48:35 [AndyS]

but I prefer that if INSERT DATA is like that, templates are like that.

19:48:38 [kasei]

understood. still seems odd to me, but I can live with it.

19:49:53 [kasei]

where did we end up on SELECT * used with grouping? allowable? syntax error?

19:50:38 [pgearon]

I don't have a link, but I thought it was an error

19:50:50 [kasei]

section 16.1 says its an error

19:51:00 [kasei]

but it also says that select * "takes account of grouping"

19:52:19 [kasei]

if it's an error, I think the group02 test is invalid.

19:53:05 [AndyS]

group-02 is not in the manifest for that reason.

19:53:51 [kasei]

oh. it's in the manifest file, but not linked from the manifest node.

19:54:14 [kasei]

is there a reason not to fix it or remove it?

20:04:00 [AndyS]

I'm neutral. Helps make the point, so remove when tests approved? (/me thinks its a pointless error - it's well defined what happens by the scope rules).

20:06:32 [kasei]

yeah, i really wish we had allowed using * with groups.

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