17:01:46 RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf 17:01:46 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/01/25-rdb2rdf-irc 17:01:48 RRSAgent, make logs world 17:01:50 Zakim, this will be 7322733 17:01:50 ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start now 17:01:51 Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference 17:01:51 Date: 25 January 2011 17:01:56 soeren has joined #RDB2RDF 17:02:13 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Jan/0056.html 17:02:16 Chair: Michael 17:02:29 Zakim, mute me 17:02:29 sorry, privera, I don't know what conference this is 17:02:30 souri has joined #rdb2rdf 17:02:39 nunolopes has joined #RDB2RDF 17:02:52 I can try to do it 17:02:56 Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas 17:02:56 sorry, nunolopes, I do not recognize a party named 'mhausenblas' 17:03:01 Seema has joined #rdb2rdf 17:03:13 Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf 17:03:16 scribenick: boris 17:03:28 RRSAgent, draft minutes 17:03:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/01/25-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas 17:03:31 zakim, dial ivan-voip 17:03:31 ok, ivan; the call is being made 17:04:07 +Ashok_Malhotra 17:04:10 + +575737aadd 17:04:18 zakim, aab is boris 17:04:18 sorry, boris, I do not recognize a party named 'aab' 17:04:19 Zakim, aadd is me 17:04:20 +juansequeda; got it 17:04:25 zakim, aabb is boris 17:04:25 +boris; got it 17:04:32 + +1.603.897.aaee 17:04:48 -[IPcaller] 17:04:58 Zakim, aaaa is dmcneil 17:04:58 +dmcneil; got it 17:05:07 Zakim, who's here? 17:05:07 On the phone I see dmcneil, boris, mhausenblas, ??P8, +1.603.897.aacc, Ivan, Ashok_Malhotra, juansequeda, +1.603.897.aaee 17:05:07 Zakim, aaee is Seema 17:05:09 On IRC I see Ashok, Seema, nunolopes, souri, soeren, RRSAgent, Zakim, dmcneil, boris, privera, juansequeda, ivan, MacTed, LeeF, mhausenblas, iv_an_ru, betehess, trackbot, ericP 17:05:12 +Seema; got it 17:05:13 who is on the phone? 17:05:20 +??P6 17:05:21 zakim, who is on the phone? 17:05:21 On the phone I see dmcneil, boris, mhausenblas, ??P8, +1.603.897.aacc, Ivan, Ashok_Malhotra, juansequeda, Seema, ??P6 17:05:30 aacc is me 17:05:33 zakim, P8 is soeren 17:05:33 sorry, soeren, I do not recognize a party named 'P8' 17:05:37 zakim, aacc is me 17:05:37 +souri; got it 17:05:43 nyoung has joined #rdb2rdf 17:05:50 zakim, ??P8 is soeren 17:05:50 +soeren; got it 17:05:51 + +1.781.273.aaff 17:05:58 +Alexandre 17:05:59 zakim, who is on the phone? 17:06:00 On the phone I see dmcneil, boris, mhausenblas, soeren, souri, Ivan, Ashok_Malhotra, juansequeda, Seema, ??P6, +1.781.273.aaff, Alexandre 17:06:01 Zakim, aaff is OpenLink_Software 17:06:01 +OpenLink_Software; got it 17:06:07 zakim, P6 is me 17:06:07 sorry, privera, I do not recognize a party named 'P6' 17:06:08 Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas 17:06:08 +nunolopes; got it 17:06:10 Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 17:06:10 +MacTed; got it 17:06:12 Zakim, mute me 17:06:12 MacTed should now be muted 17:06:22 Zakim, ??P6 is privera 17:06:22 +privera; got it 17:06:24 :-) 17:06:27 dmcneil has joined #RDB2RDF 17:06:30 great thanks 17:06:32 Zakim, who's here? 17:06:32 On the phone I see dmcneil, boris, mhausenblas, soeren, souri, Ivan, Ashok_Malhotra, juansequeda, Seema, privera, MacTed (muted), Alexandre 17:06:34 mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes 17:06:35 On IRC I see dmcneil, nyoung, Ashok, Seema, nunolopes, souri, soeren, RRSAgent, Zakim, boris, privera, juansequeda, ivan, MacTed, LeeF, mhausenblas, iv_an_ru, betehess, trackbot, 17:06:38 ... ericP 17:06:47 TOPIC: ADMIN 17:06:52 zakim, mute me 17:06:52 privera should now be muted 17:06:54 PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2011/01/18-rdb2rdf-minutes.html 17:06:56 PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting 17:06:59 +1 17:07:05 +1 17:07:06 http://www.w3.org/2011/01/18-rdb2rdf-minutes.html 17:07:12 Zakim, who's noisy? 17:07:19 RESOLUTION accepted 17:07:24 MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: mhausenblas (36%), soeren (5%), Ashok_Malhotra (36%), Ivan (51%) 17:07:44 +EricP 17:07:51 RESOLUTION: last telcon minutes accepted by the working group 17:07:52 thanks, ivan 17:08:07 TOPIC: Review of R2RML Test Cases 17:08:23 scribenick: mhausenblas 17:08:32 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/TestCases 17:08:35 ACTION-91? 17:08:35 ACTION-91 -- Michael Hausenblas to move accepted TC from wiki to http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/ -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN 17:08:35 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/91 17:08:45 Marcelo has joined #rdb2rdf 17:08:55 cygri has joined #rdb2rdf 17:09:02 Zakim, cygri is with mhausenblas 17:09:02 +cygri; got it 17:09:03 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/ 17:09:13 Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas 17:09:13 nunolopes was already listed in mhausenblas, mhausenblas 17:09:20 just joined. sorry i'm late 17:09:35 ACTION-81? 17:09:35 ACTION-81 -- Juan Sequeda to and Eric to draft Direct Mapping TC -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN 17:09:35 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/81 17:09:44 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/TestCases 17:10:10 Boris: now under review, now 17:10:32 ... asked Juan, Eric and Marcelo to contribute 17:10:45 + +1.562.249.aagg 17:10:48 Boris: any questions? 17:11:00 Zakim, aagg is Marcelo 17:11:00 +Marcelo; got it 17:11:09 scribenick: boris 17:11:18 TOPIC: R2RML status 17:11:29 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/r2rml/ 17:11:40 souri: check two actions regarding this 17:11:45 ... one comment from Ivan 17:11:52 issue number ? 17:12:00 michael: go to the actions ... 17:12:15 souri: issue 16 17:12:30 ... ISSUE-16? 17:12:31 ISSUE-16? 17:12:31 ISSUE-16 -- Should we allow multiple subjects for a logical table row? Also, what if no subject is specified? -- raised 17:12:31 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/16 17:12:50 souri: issue with the subjectmap, cardinality 17:13:01 ... we should allow multiple subjectmaps 17:13:13 ... one row can have multiple subjects, we allow it 17:13:25 ... it is multiple cardinality 17:13:32 ... comment from Ivan 17:13:41 ... the group has to decide if this make sense 17:14:16 ...another action?, what happen if there is no subject map? 17:14:31 .... action related to connect r2rml direct mapping 17:14:40 ... what do we do in this particular case? 17:14:55 .... we have to use direct mapping? how to specify the direct mapping? 17:15:06 ... we have some ideas to discuss here to the group 17:15:18 q+ 17:15:23 ack cygri 17:15:28 ... opinion to allow multiple subjectmaps .. 17:15:42 cygri it will pretty clear 17:15:45 .... no harm 17:16:02 ... on the other hand is not useful 17:16:10 s/cygri it/cygri: it 17:16:13 ... no use cases to do that 17:16:37 ... it is trade off being flexible or to find a useful case 17:16:38 q+ 17:16:59 ... it is also consider in d2r ... depending on the particular cases 17:17:15 .... for example in equivalent classes ... 17:17:23 q+ 17:17:33 Michael: KISS principle applies - let's mark it for R2RML v2.0 17:17:34 ... no harm, but no benefit 17:17:37 ack me 17:17:51 q+ 17:17:54 ack souri 17:17:58 q? 17:17:58 michael: ... if we don't have a clear use case ... let's mark it for version 2 17:18:06 noise 17:19:02 souri: e.g. owl:sameAs ... multiple subjects .... "not materialized" ... 17:19:18 ... this is one utility, but he is ok with that 17:19:18 ack Ivan 17:19:35 ivan: what is the process should do? 17:19:57 ... if it is only one, I can live with that, but we have to say something if there are two 17:20:05 q+ 17:20:16 souri: I like the error idea 17:20:23 michael, is it a erro? 17:20:38 ┌────────┬────────┬──────────┬────────────┬────────────────────┐ 17:20:43 │ ?FNAME │ ?LNAME │ ?CONTACT │ ?PHYSICIAN │ ?PHYSICIAN_CONTACT │ 17:20:45 │ Bob │ Smith │ 18 │ Dr. Suess │ 23 │ 17:20:48 └────────┴────────┴──────────┴────────────┴────────────────────┘ 17:20:49 michael: an action for this, what will happen in that case? 17:20:52 _:_1 a foaf:Person ; foaf:givenName "Bob" ; foaf:familyName "Smith" ; :doc :_2 . 17:20:55 _:_2 a :Physician ; :contact Addres:_23 . 17:21:09 ericP: I show the scenario for this 17:21:12 ack cygri 17:21:50 cygri: one thing: the sameAs scenario ... not sure if I recommend this .. but it is good point 17:22:03 ... second: agree with Ivan to address cases like this 17:22:17 ... error? or what happens? 17:22:35 ... so get back to the specification and check how to it 17:22:46 .... create an action? 17:23:09 michael: create wiki page, issue, action? ... just not forget it 17:23:27 cygri: volunteer to create a wiki page for this 17:23:50 ACTION: Richard to capture this (multiple subject maps) and other (future) potential error cases in the Wiki (ISSUE-16) 17:23:50 Created ACTION-96 - Capture this (multiple subject maps) and other (future) potential error cases in the Wiki (ISSUE-16) [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-02-01]. 17:24:00 ACTION-88? 17:24:00 ACTION-88 -- Souripriya Das to adds issues to http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/ , one for Ashok's concern and one re each of the open, inline-Issues in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/r2rml/ -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN 17:24:00 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/88 17:24:09 michael: with this action 88 can be closed? 17:24:16 Yes 17:24:29 souri: I added the issue ... 17:24:32 i.e. action-88 can be closed 17:24:38 seema: yes, it can be closed 17:24:38 close ACTION-88 17:24:38 ACTION-88 Adds issues to http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/ , one for Ashok's concern and one re each of the open, inline-Issues in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/r2rml/ closed 17:24:54 michael: more actions? 17:24:57 ACTION-83? 17:24:58 ACTION-83 -- Ashok Malhotra to review R2RML ED -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN 17:24:58 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/83 17:25:04 michael: ACTION-83 17:25:10 ashok: I'm late 17:25:25 michael: ACTION-92 17:25:31 ACTION-92? 17:25:31 ACTION-92 -- Richard Cyganiak to address the R2RML - DM connection -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN 17:25:31 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/92 17:25:34 cygri: not yet 17:25:43 ACTION-93 17:25:44 ACTION-93? 17:25:44 ACTION-93 -- Souripriya Das to identify not-mapping vs. default-mapping issues in R2RML/DM (Wiki or via mail) -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN 17:25:44 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/93 17:25:52 souri: we discussed with Seema 17:25:54 ivan, is the paste i uttered above near what you were thinking about re: multiple subjects? 17:26:08 ... the idea is to be a gradual specification of the ... 17:26:25 i was trying to tease out whether you want repeated properties, or generally just want to partition the properties amounst the created subjects 17:26:37 ... if we look at the r2rml what are the things we can skip? ... for example subjectmap ... 17:26:37 -soeren 17:26:58 eric, not exactly. At least my idea was that several subjects gets exactly the same predicates 17:26:59 ... what implies, not to specify the things in subjectmap and rely on direct map 17:27:05 +??P8 17:27:17 ... do what the direct map can do to get the subjectmap 17:27:18 zakim, ??P8 is soeren 17:27:20 +soeren; got it 17:27:43 ... other: .... our columns to be predicateobjectmaps 17:28:03 ... use direct map to specify the subject and predicate 17:28:23 .... only a subset of the columns to the direct map 17:28:28 ... exclusion list 17:29:06 mhausenblas++ 17:29:07 michael: hard to follow 17:29:16 rr:subjectMap rr:directMapping 17:29:29 souri: the idea is something like rr:subjectMap rr:directMapping 17:29:37 ... similar to the predicateobjectmap 17:29:40 rr:predicateObjectMaps rr:directMapping 17:29:45 ... rr:predicateObjectMaps rr:directMapping 17:30:00 ... we can refine this and create an inclusion list 17:30:18 ... or except, exclusion 17:30:34 ... also can be applied to the refPredicateObjectMap 17:30:51 ... better to write an email or in the wiki 17:30:58 michael: what is the overall approach 17:31:08 ... and then we can accept 17:31:20 q+ 17:31:28 ack cygri 17:31:33 souri: three points of this subjectmap, predicatemap, refpredicatemap 17:31:38 q+ 17:31:47 q? 17:32:12 cygri: ... one table for direct, two tables for custom 17:32:34 ... we have to find out something easy to understand on all these levels 17:33:10 ack ivan 17:33:13 q? 17:33:23 q+ 17:33:30 ivan: what would be really the use case for something like that? 17:33:31 hooking points for direct-mapping and then refine using inclusions list and exclusions list and '*' 17:33:47 .... it's relative complicated ? 17:33:53 q? 17:34:16 souri: use case, let's say we have 10 columns in a table, I only want to customize two columns and for the rest direct mapping 17:35:01 Zakim, who's making noise? 17:35:06 ivan: I understand, but in real life if I use direct mapping the predicates generated are really not very nice, and they can be transformed by sparql 17:35:13 mhausenblas, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: soeren (4%), souri (36%), Ivan (85%) 17:35:21 ... but if I use r2rml it will be the final rdf 17:35:36 i expect this will come up most frequently when folks are doing incremental updates to their r2rml mapping 17:35:39 (ivan) 17:35:40 ... in practice I would not use that, but maybe I'm wrong 17:35:54 +q 17:35:57 ack cygri 17:36:00 q? 17:36:05 michael: we need to specify what do we should do? 17:36:24 cygri: in real life, we have database 64 tables and convert them to RDF, big job, 17:36:46 .... pick one place to start, start with important tables and do it in a incremental way 17:36:58 yes 17:37:26 q? 17:37:27 ... one way to support this is direct mapping, and get the default rdf, and the "modify" it 17:37:52 Zakim, agenda? 17:37:52 I see nothing on the agenda 17:38:08 example: all tables owned by this user modulo an exclusion list 17:38:09 ... the other approach would be: all the tables with direct mapping except employee table, in this table all the columns mapped except some cols 17:38:29 ... it works huge database, at least in d2r 17:38:46 q+ to suggest that it delays inventing schema, which can move things along 17:38:50 ... if I have an empty r2rml, I get the direct mapping and the data from that mapping 17:38:59 ack soeren 17:39:01 q? 17:39:17 soeren: it's important to have the incremental approach r2rml 17:39:28 ... one option is to have shortcuts 17:39:44 q? 17:39:50 ... specify what columns to what properties and the direct mapping is used for that mappings 17:40:12 Zakim, please disconnect mhausenblas 17:40:12 mhausenblas is being disconnected 17:40:13 -mhausenblas 17:40:18 lol 17:40:18 ... let's try to look to see how to simplify ... avoiding to create a lot of stuff 17:40:30 Zakim, code? 17:40:30 the conference code is 7322733 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), mhausenblas 17:40:33 well done ericP 17:40:34 /kick ericP 17:40:38 ... in this way the mapping language will be more appealing 17:40:39 +mhausenblas 17:40:42 ivan: michael? 17:40:57 Specified at three levels: (all tables in) DB, (all tables owned by a) user, (all columns in a) table + refined with INCLUSIONS/EXCLUSIONS/* 17:41:01 michael: sorry 17:41:03 q? 17:41:10 ack ericP 17:41:10 ericP, you wanted to suggest that it delays inventing schema, which can move things along 17:41:47 ericP: motivating use case, 64 tables and we want to express by using foaf or/and dc 17:41:51 +1 to ericP 17:42:05 michael: good motivation 17:42:11 ACTION-94 17:42:19 ACTION-94? 17:42:19 ACTION-94 -- Sören Auer to create Wiki page with options for disambiguation interface for well-known entities identifier -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN 17:42:19 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/94 17:42:30 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Entity_disambiguation 17:42:33 soeren: I created the wiki page 17:42:39 close ACTION-94 17:42:39 ACTION-94 Create Wiki page with options for disambiguation interface for well-known entities identifier closed 17:42:46 ... and it is linked from the linked data aspects 17:42:49 yes, ivan, should be open 17:42:53 ... wrote 3 approaches to solve this 17:43:07 first one: entity resprestation on the database columns 17:43:11 Michael: I ask the R2RML editors to change status of ISSUE-16 to open 17:43:14 ... second mapping funcitons 17:43:21 third: using entity mapping table 17:43:47 ... the easiest way is the r2rml core editors ... database column variants .. 17:44:07 ... create uris based on namespaces prefixes predifned 17:44:14 souri: r2rml allows to do that 17:44:24 michael: thanks soeren 17:44:31 ... how to proceed now? 17:44:47 soeren: we should discuss which of the variants we need? 17:44:54 ... the first one works good 17:44:55 q+ 17:45:02 ... it depends on the scenarios 17:45:03 ack cygri 17:45:26 cygri: third approach probably won't work with r2rml 17:45:46 ... the main point is to store the alignment on the database, and this should work 17:46:00 ... in scenarios where we cannot modify the database 17:46:25 ... second approach: the main problem where is the implementation of the functions are coming from 17:46:35 ... from the spec or free implementation 17:46:53 ... java class that implement the function, or stored procedure or web service 17:47:12 michael: we don't want to go in much detail regarding the implementation 17:47:18 ... for example an xslt 17:47:50 cygri: in d2rq we can specify a java class 17:48:14 soeren: the processor has to understand whether is a java class, web service ... etc 17:48:32 cygri: you can say, expected input, output and uri 17:48:36 ... that would be possible 17:48:53 michael: we have to gather a bit of experience on implementation 17:49:13 ... for example dbpedia lookup, and the possible problems we can have 17:49:39 soeren: second option: one problem function one to one 17:50:07 ... second problem: could be cases we can have two syntaxes variations of a uri 17:50:24 ericP: rdf says two different uris two different resources 17:50:55 michael: usually you have to define a normalization process 17:51:17 ericP: I would not expect that ... on normalization 17:51:39 soeren: extract a part of the URI ... in this case mapping functions won't work any more 17:52:03 michael: don't think to worry about it, I'm with ericP 17:52:14 FILTER ( tolower(scheme1) = tolower(scheme2) ) 17:52:42 cygri: volunteer for the second one ...draft a simple interface .. and gather implementations experiences 17:53:03 ... to include cases from d2rq 17:53:13 ... on the wiki page 17:53:14 ACTION: Richard to look into D2RQ implementation and update http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Entity_disambiguation 17:53:15 Created ACTION-97 - Look into D2RQ implementation and update http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Entity_disambiguation [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-02-01]. 17:53:36 soeren, i understand the motivation, and sympathise with the desire for a smarter notion of equivalence, but i think it's unlikely ('cause it's expensive) so i wanted to demoralize you as soon as possible 17:53:37 -soeren 17:53:43 ... the third approach should be included as welll 17:53:49 s/welll/well 17:54:04 +??P8 17:54:16 zakim, +??P8 is soeren 17:54:16 sorry, soeren, I do not recognize a party named '+??P8' 17:54:21 souri: David sent some mails about sql query specification 17:54:22 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2011Jan/0069.html 17:54:29 zakim, P8 is soeren 17:54:29 sorry, cygri, I do not recognize a party named 'P8' 17:54:37 zakim, ??P8 is soeren 17:54:37 +soeren; got it 17:54:37 zakim, ??P8 is soeren 17:54:38 I already had ??P8 as soeren, cygri 17:54:46 ... constructing portions of the logical table. .. it would be a good idea 17:55:57 ACTION-85? 17:55:57 ACTION-85 -- Ted Thibodeau to review Direct Mapping ED -- due 2011-01-25 -- OPEN 17:55:57 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/85 17:56:06 ACTION-95? 17:56:06 ACTION-95 -- Juan Sequeda to create issues for DM draft -- due 2011-01-26 -- CLOSED 17:56:06 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/95 17:56:22 TOPIC: Direct Mapping status 17:56:34 michael: a lot of issues 17:56:43 ... so next time to check all the issues there 17:56:49 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/raised 17:57:01 ... for the next week a lot of direct mapping issues 17:57:03 q+ 17:57:05 close ACTION-95 17:57:05 ACTION-95 Create issues for DM draft closed 17:57:15 ashok: to ten minutes on the issues 17:57:23 ack betehess 17:57:26 ... and classify them into simple, not simple, etc. 17:57:40 betehess: add new rules 17:57:46 marcelo: we will do it for next week 17:57:49 these including all Juan's issues? http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/raised 17:57:54 juan: face to face with marcelo 17:58:32 michael: let's do what ashok suggested 17:58:46 ISSUE-9? 17:58:46 ISSUE-9 -- Generate Blank Nodes for duplicate tuples -- raised 17:58:46 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/9 17:59:00 michael: any comments? 17:59:09 ashok: I haven't look at this 17:59:19 juan: let's do it over email 17:59:30 michael: have a look on all of these issues 17:59:51