IRC log of sparql on 2010-12-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:52:06 [RRSAgent]

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14:52:06 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc

14:52:15 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #sparql

14:52:23 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, this will be SPARQL

14:52:23 [Zakim]

ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

14:57:08 [bglimm]

bglimm has joined #sparql

14:57:22 [Zakim]

SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started

14:57:29 [Zakim]

+??P5

14:57:42 [cbuilara]

Zakim, ??P5 is me

14:57:42 [Zakim]

+cbuilara; got it

14:58:20 [Zakim]

+??P10

14:58:20 [bglimm]

bglimm has joined #sparql

14:58:33 [NickH]

Zakim, ??P10 is me

14:58:33 [Zakim]

+NickH; got it

14:58:54 [Zakim]

+OlivierCorby

14:59:21 [Zakim]

+davidshotton

14:59:27 [Zakim]

+kasei

14:59:35 [chimezie]

chimezie has joined #sparql

15:00:03 [AxelPolleres]

trackbot, start meeting

15:00:05 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

15:00:07 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 77277

15:00:07 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now

15:00:08 [trackbot]

Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

15:00:08 [trackbot]

Date: 14 December 2010

15:00:20 [bglimm]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:00:21 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:00:23 [Zakim]

I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted

15:00:24 [Zakim]

On the phone I see cbuilara, NickH, OlivierCorby, davidshotton, kasei, Sandro

15:00:25 [Zakim]

On the phone I see cbuilara, NickH, OlivierCorby, davidshotton, kasei, Sandro

15:00:26 [Zakim]

+??P18

15:00:33 [AndyS]

zakim, PP18 is me

15:00:33 [Zakim]

sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'PP18'

15:00:33 [MattPerry]

MattPerry has joined #sparql

15:00:40 [AndyS]

zakim, P18 is me

15:00:40 [Zakim]

sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'P18'

15:00:44 [Zakim]

+AxelPolleres

15:00:44 [Zakim]

+Chimezie_Ogbuji

15:00:50 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P18 is me

15:00:50 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

15:01:05 [chimezie]

Zakim, mute me

15:01:05 [Zakim]

Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted

15:01:16 [Zakim]

+MattPerry

15:01:17 [Zakim]

-Sandro

15:01:25 [bglimm]

Zakim, who am I?

15:01:27 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, bglimm.

15:01:45 [bglimm]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:01:53 [Zakim]

On the phone I see cbuilara, NickH, OlivierCorby, davidshotton, kasei, AndyS, AxelPolleres, Chimezie_Ogbuji (muted), MattPerry

15:01:59 [Zakim]

+ +1.617.489.aaaa

15:02:08 [sandro]

zakim, +1.617.489.aaaa is Sandr

15:02:17 [AxelPolleres]

41# on the phone should work for hands up

15:02:22 [Zakim]

+Sandr; got it

15:02:27 [sandro]

zakim, Sandr is Sandro

15:02:29 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:02:36 [Zakim]

-davidshotton

15:02:40 [Zakim]

+Sandro; got it

15:02:43 [AxelPolleres]

ack AxelPolleres

15:02:47 [Zakim]

On the phone I see cbuilara, NickH, OlivierCorby, kasei, AndyS, AxelPolleres, Chimezie_Ogbuji (muted), MattPerry, Sandro

15:02:50 [AxelPolleres]

q-

15:02:54 [AxelPolleres]

q?

15:02:57 [Zakim]

+pgearon

15:03:15 [AxelPolleres]

ack 41#

15:03:25 [sandro]

queue=

15:03:31 [sandro]

q?

15:03:32 [bglimm]

I think that is me, but the phone is just ringing

15:03:41 [Zakim]

41#, you wanted to comment on the phone should work for

15:03:50 [sandro]

zakim, is being super slow

15:03:55 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'is being super slow', sandro

15:04:10 [AxelPolleres]

agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-12-14

15:04:14 [Zakim]

+davidshotton

15:04:16 [AxelPolleres]

chair: axel Polleres

15:04:26 [bglimm]

Zakim, davidshotton is bglimm

15:04:27 [Zakim]

+bglimm; got it

15:04:45 [AxelPolleres]

scribe: Birte Glimm

15:05:01 [AxelPolleres]

PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-12-07

15:05:01 [bglimm]

Topic: admin

15:05:31 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Any comments?

15:05:35 [NickH]

missing the word Agenda

15:05:39 [chimezie]

"Sorry, Not Found"

15:05:45 [bglimm]

Chimezie: I don't get any minutes there.

15:06:22 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: I'll check and we approve them next time

15:06:30 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: axel to check minutes from last time

15:06:30 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-342 - Check minutes from last time [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].

15:06:44 [bglimm]

Topic: Comments

15:07:00 [sandro]

(the IRC log isnt even on the wiki where it should be at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Chatlog_2010-12-07 )

15:07:10 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Please try to get comments approved and send

15:07:40 [bglimm]

... next meeting in a week

15:07:57 [bglimm]

... Olivier is next on the scribe list

15:08:12 [bglimm]

Olivier: I am not sure I can attend next week

15:08:32 [AxelPolleres]

topic: report from protocol TC

15:08:37 [bglimm]

Topic: Report from the Protocoll teleconf

15:08:50 [bglimm]

s/Protocoll/protocol/

15:09:11 [AxelPolleres]

summary is http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Protocol plus the minutes at http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-sparql-minutes.html

15:09:15 [bglimm]

Greg: We talked about 5 issues

15:09:34 [bglimm]

... first content format for update request

15:10:00 [bglimm]

.... a) string with key-value pairs or b) a raw format with appropriate media type

15:10:13 [AlexPassant]

AlexPassant has joined #sparql

15:10:23 [Zakim]

-AndyS

15:10:24 [AxelPolleres]

alex, can u scribe next week?

15:10:31 [bglimm]

... ability to pass extra arguments like the default dataset

15:10:45 [Zakim]

+AlexPassant

15:10:47 [bglimm]

... and how that can be done

15:10:51 [AndyS]

zakim, why did you cut me off?

15:10:51 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, AndyS.

15:10:59 [AlexPassant]

AxelPolleres: no I have to send regrets for next week sorry

15:11:02 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:11:04 [bglimm]

... we'll add a note to the doc to ask for feedback

15:11:06 [Zakim]

-[IPcaller]

15:11:24 [bglimm]

... related to issue 60 is what is in the response to an update

15:11:28 [Zakim]

+??P44

15:11:35 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P44 is me

15:11:35 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

15:11:42 [bglimm]

... we probably didn't get there, but we discussed response and error code

15:12:08 [bglimm]

... 200 code for success? Could be problematic if systems want to redirect (e.g., from POST to GET)

15:12:28 [bglimm]

... we decided not to describe something here, should fall out from HTTP good practises

15:13:01 [bglimm]

AndyS: My understanding is we would follow HTTP in what that says, so most is predefined

15:13:18 [bglimm]

... we could mention the common practise

15:13:27 [bglimm]

Greg: That's also my understanding

15:13:42 [AxelPolleres]

HTTP doesn't leave much freedom on return codes... will tell us what to do.

15:13:47 [bglimm]

... forth issue is faults and error messages

15:14:34 [bglimm]

.... there was consensus that we want to express error messages in plain text, more structures errors can be dealt with in a next WG

15:14:35 [AxelPolleres]

plain text errors and leaving more structured error descriptions to a future group.

15:14:53 [bglimm]

... final issues: patch, issue 56

15:14:53 [AxelPolleres]

HTTP PATCH ?

15:15:03 [bglimm]

... looking into patch for update issues.

15:15:34 [sandro]

!!!

15:15:36 [bglimm]

.... patch says that the resource should not me modified, otherwise POST should be used

15:15:58 [bglimm]

... we agreed to not pursue PATCH since it does not seem to be a good fit for our situation

15:16:06 [sandro]

(I don't care about PATCH, but yes, of course "the resource" is the graph store.)

15:16:41 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: We probably need a concrete proposal to close issue 56

15:16:42 [Souri]

Souri has joined #sparql

15:17:02 [AxelPolleres]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

15:17:02 [Zakim]

On the phone I see cbuilara, NickH, OlivierCorby, kasei, AxelPolleres, Chimezie_Ogbuji (muted), MattPerry, Sandro, pgearon, bglimm, AlexPassant, AndyS

15:17:02 [bglimm]

Sandro: Who wanted to use PATCH? I don't think we can close the issue now.

15:17:10 [Zakim]

+Souri

15:17:15 [bglimm]

Greg: I think Paul suggested it initially.

15:17:33 [pgearon]

that's correct. I was interested, but it seemed like I'm the only one, so the outcome was not to use it

15:17:44 [pgearon]

I did not suggest it initially

15:17:50 [chimezie]

Zakim, unmute me

15:17:50 [Zakim]

Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted

15:18:13 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: I think Sandro and Greg agree that the issues is closable.

15:18:26 [sandro]

sandro: Okay, if GET on the endpoint gives you the service description, then yes, using PATCH on the endpoint shouldn't be used to update the quad store.

15:18:57 [AxelPolleres]

ISSUE-56 can be closed from Protocol's point of view, but still open for http-rdf-update ?

15:19:28 [AndyS]

q+ to ask in what way it is still open for the REST-protocol

15:19:38 [bglimm]

Axel: I can close issue 56 and open a new one for http-update

15:19:51 [bglimm]

AndyS: In what way is it still open?

15:19:53 [AxelPolleres]

s/Axel/chime/

15:20:31 [AndyS]

ack AndyS

15:20:31 [Zakim]

AndyS, you wanted to ask in what way it is still open for the REST-protocol

15:20:39 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Is patch allowed for http-update?

15:21:05 [bglimm]

Chime: It is not always clear what is to be modified, but if it is clear, it can be used

15:21:35 [bglimm]

... I suggested some text in an email to get more feedback, but other than that I think it can be closed

15:21:48 [chimezie]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0352.html

15:22:13 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Can people please have a look at that email.

15:22:31 [bglimm]

... I suggest we proceed by email and see whether we can close it next week

15:22:35 [bglimm]

Chime: ok

15:22:47 [chimezie]

Zakim, mute me

15:22:47 [Zakim]

Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted

15:23:04 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Axel to put closing of ISSUE-56 on next week's agenda, asking for more discussion on the proposal in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0352.html on email.

15:23:04 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-343 - Put closing of ISSUE-56 on next week's agenda, asking for more discussion on the proposal in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0352.html on email. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].

15:23:21 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Anything more from the protocol teleconf?

15:23:29 [bglimm]

Greg: No, that's all

15:23:35 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Anything on the schedule?

15:23:46 [bglimm]

Greg: No, not discussed

15:23:58 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Lee and I have to look into that then

15:24:13 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Axel to talk with Lee about protocol schedule

15:24:13 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-344 - Talk with Lee about protocol schedule [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].

15:24:35 [AxelPolleres]

topic: rif:usedWithProfile

15:24:43 [bglimm]

Topic: RIF-usedWithProfile

15:24:47 [AxelPolleres]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0430.html

15:25:01 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: The email summarizes the status

15:25:28 [bglimm]

... I went back to the RIF WG, to discuss how we can refer to RIF docs from within RDF docs

15:25:51 [bglimm]

The predicate would have a rule set as subject and ent. profile from RIF as object

15:26:12 [AxelPolleres]

<r1> rif:usedWithProfile <http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/Simple> .

15:26:37 [bglimm]

.... <r1> imports rules that are to be used with the simple ent. profile

15:26:49 [bglimm]

... we added a section to the ent. regimes doc

15:26:57 [AxelPolleres]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml#id0x278d4530

15:27:33 [bglimm]

... happy about comments

15:27:58 [bglimm]

.... Sandro, we refer to the RIF-in-RDF encoding, can you check the example that we have?

15:28:06 [bglimm]

Sandro: Yes, I'll check that

15:28:16 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: sandro to check example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml#id0x278d4530

15:28:16 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-345 - Check example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml#id0x278d4530 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-12-21].

15:28:35 [chimezie]

Zakim, unmute me

15:28:35 [Zakim]

Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted

15:28:45 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Chime, can you have a look over the new part (7.1)

15:29:02 [bglimm]

... I just replaced rif:import with rif:usedWithProfile

15:29:19 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: chime to look over "side effects" of the new section for RIF entailment regime

15:29:19 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-346 - Look over "side effects" of the new section for RIF entailment regime [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2010-12-21].

15:29:40 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Birte gave some comments already

15:29:51 [bglimm]

bglimm: I am happy with the section

15:30:15 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: I suggest we move that to the end of the section

15:30:25 [bglimm]

... it is quite long now

15:31:03 [bglimm]

... if that's ok with everybody, I'll action myself

15:31:18 [bglimm]

... to move it to the end of Sec. 7

15:31:22 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Axel to move "referencing RIF" section to the end of section 7 in ER

15:31:22 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-347 - Move "referencing RIF" section to the end of section 7 in ER [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].

15:32:04 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: We used in the ent. document the term Informative in others we use non-normative

15:32:10 [bglimm]

... any preference

15:32:25 [bglimm]

Sandro: Informative is unfortunate jargon

15:32:37 [bglimm]

... OWL switched to non-normative

15:32:49 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: I suggest we switch to non-normative

15:32:53 [AndyS]

SPARQL 1.0 used "informative"

15:33:08 [bglimm]

.... Any objections to switch to non-normative

15:33:18 [bglimm]

AndyS: I don't see why we should switch

15:33:43 [AxelPolleres]

let's stick with "informative"

15:33:44 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Ok, then we just stick with Inforamtive

15:33:57 [bglimm]

s/Inforamtive/Informative/

15:34:03 [chimezie]

Zakim, mute me

15:34:03 [Zakim]

Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted

15:34:17 [AxelPolleres]

q?

15:34:21 [bglimm]

Topic: Review of actions

15:34:24 [AxelPolleres]

topic: acrtion review

15:34:40 [AxelPolleres]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0447.html

15:34:56 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: I tried to identify actions that are critical for LC

15:35:10 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION-200: Steve to Work with Andy to add CONSTRUCT WHERE { triple pattern } shortcut to query spec

15:35:10 [trackbot]

ACTION-200 Work with Andy to add CONSTRUCT WHERE { triple pattern } shortcut to query spec notes added

15:35:17 [bglimm]

... Action-200 CONSTRUCT WHERE

15:35:31 [bglimm]

.... can we have quick opinions?

15:35:53 [kasei]

q+

15:36:35 [bglimm]

AndyS: We should be careful not to get into conflicts for named graphs and quads

15:37:03 [AndyS]

see also LALR(1) checking needed

15:37:29 [bglimm]

Greg: I am against this. Even if it does not cause parsing problems, the optional where clause is problematic for humans

15:37:58 [AxelPolleres]

strawpoll... Do you want CONSTRUCT WHERE as a shortcut?

15:38:07 [AndyS]

no opinion

15:38:11 [kasei]

i've seen discussion in the past of a "CONSTRUCT *" syntax that I think would at least mitigate the human confusion...

15:38:11 [chimezie]

0

15:38:16 [kasei]

-1

15:38:17 [pgearon]

0

15:38:19 [AxelPolleres]

0

15:38:20 [bglimm]

-0

15:38:24 [corby]

0

15:39:09 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: There seems to be no strong support from the WG, I'll get back to Steve to see whether he really think we need it or whether we can live without it

15:39:28 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Axel to get back to Steve on ACTION-200 ... suggesting to pursue without that shortcut or refreshing my memories on it :-)

15:39:28 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-348 - Get back to Steve on ACTION-200 ... suggesting to pursue without that shortcut or refreshing my memories on it :-) [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].

15:39:51 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Action 209 Steve to Disallow projected variables being reused in HAVING in the spec

15:39:58 [AxelPolleres]

done

15:40:13 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION-285: Paul to Collect update security issues and report back to mailinglist regarding ISSUE-19

15:40:34 [bglimm]

.... has this ever been on the mailing list?

15:40:49 [bglimm]

Paul: Yes, but I didn't write a summary of the discussion

15:40:51 [AxelPolleres]

before christmas...

15:41:06 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION-286: Lee to Add a note on dropping of SOAP binding to next WD of protocol11 and explicitly solicit feedback on usage of SOAP in SPARQL

15:41:06 [trackbot]

ACTION-286 Add a note on dropping of SOAP binding to next WD of protocol11 and explicitly solicit feedback on usage of SOAP in SPARQL notes added

15:41:32 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: There is an action for Lee to drop the SOAP protocol

15:42:07 [bglimm]

... we had some discussion and we decided to hint explicitly that SOAP is no longer official supported/needed

15:42:16 [bglimm]

... any opinions

15:43:00 [bglimm]

... I think it is important to do this

15:43:01 [AxelPolleres]

will talk avbout it with lee

15:43:13 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION-290: Lee to Make sure that the relationship between SPARQL protocol and HTTP protocol is clearly laid out before Last Call

15:43:13 [trackbot]

ACTION-290 Make sure that the relationship between SPARQL protocol and HTTP protocol is clearly laid out before Last Call notes added

15:43:13 [AxelPolleres]

*critical for LC *

15:43:52 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION-291: Work MIME type registration information into SPARQL Update document based on Sandro's suggestion for formatting etc.

15:44:14 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: That was on Paul

15:44:25 [bglimm]

Paul: I didn't do that, maybe Alex did

15:44:36 [bglimm]

Alex: I didn't do it

15:44:55 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Can something happen before Christmas? Can I leave the action with Paul?

15:44:59 [AndyS]

I'd like to add a registration for query as well. Completeness

15:44:59 [AxelPolleres]

that one was for Paul... before Christmas? :-)

15:44:59 [bglimm]

Paul: OK

15:45:39 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION-292: Lee to Make sure text on transactionality/concurrency gets added to protocol document

15:45:39 [AxelPolleres]

*Is this critical for LC? Was it discussed in the protocol call?*

15:45:52 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: I have to discuss this with Lee

15:45:58 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION-306: Lee to Work with Axel to identify potential editor(s) to shepherd through JSON document on Rec track

15:46:01 [AndyS]

query content-type gets .rq registered. Can C&P update, change, remove security issues.

15:46:21 [bglimm]

... we didn't find editors for the JSON format doc yet

15:46:51 [bglimm]

... nobody volunteered and we didn't pursue it either

15:47:00 [bglimm]

... anybody interested to do that?

15:47:18 [bglimm]

... AndyS said he could help, but has many other things to do

15:47:41 [bglimm]

AndyS: There is not too much to do, adding a schema section would be nice

15:47:48 [AxelPolleres]

schema section would be nice, but not critical, mostly formatting only.

15:47:57 [bglimm]

AndyS: Does anybody know of outstanding issues?

15:48:08 [kasei]

My feelings are similar to AndyS: willing to help/edit, but less sure if there's lots of work outstanding.

15:48:33 [bglimm]

... it is just a JSON version of the XML result format

15:49:40 [bglimm]

Greg: I am pretty loaded, but if it is not too much work I can do it, but I can't tell how much work

15:49:56 [bglimm]

AndyS: How about checking this week what is involved?

15:49:57 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: greg to send out question for ISSUES on json format, if no comments ship out as LC

15:49:57 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-349 - Send out question for ISSUES on json format, if no comments ship out as LC [on Gregory Williams - due 2010-12-21].

15:50:17 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION-324: carlos to Ping carlos/eric in 2-3 weeks for progress on Fed query issues

15:50:59 [bglimm]

Carlos ???: Idea was to finish the work this week, I plan to have something for review next week

15:51:05 [AxelPolleres]

carlos plans to send out request for review within the week.

15:51:17 [bglimm]

... Friday I'll ask for reviews and proceed with comments

15:51:48 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: ACTION 328 can be closed, Steve confirmed he completed it

15:51:56 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION-328 can be closed according to steve

15:52:13 [bglimm]

ACTION-331: Andy to Clarify the meaning of "potentially bound" vis a vis what

15:52:13 [trackbot]

ACTION-331 Clarify the meaning of "potentially bound" vis a vis what can go on the right hand side of an AS in a SELECT list notes added

15:52:14 [bglimm]

can go on the right hand side of an AS in a SELECT list

15:52:27 [bglimm]

AndyS: I am working on it

15:52:38 [bglimm]

... I've send a message to the list

15:52:58 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Thanks for the update

15:53:11 [bglimm]

... any updates for the schedule regarding LC?

15:53:32 [bglimm]

... from now on I'll ask in teleconfs for a status

15:53:34 [AxelPolleres]

topic: shcedule

15:53:38 [bglimm]

... Query?

15:54:04 [bglimm]

AndyS: little progress, group has been adding lots of things, I am working through the details

15:54:17 [AxelPolleres]

place-holders were added, people submitting content would be helpful

15:54:20 [bglimm]

people could help by sending details and test cases

15:54:30 [AxelPolleres]

... test cases would be very helpful

15:55:03 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Can anybody help with the function library section?

15:55:13 [bglimm]

.... It should be easy to do, but time consuming

15:55:35 [bglimm]

... I can try and give you some input on this

15:55:43 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Axel to draft some input for the function library section

15:55:43 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-350 - Draft some input for the function library section [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].

15:56:03 [bglimm]

... next doc: update

15:56:19 [bglimm]

Alex: I added the shortcuts and asked for feedback

15:56:28 [bglimm]

... I have to go through the pending actions

15:56:42 [bglimm]

... most of them have been taken into account

15:57:16 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Lets see whether we can discuss the formal model in the next couple of days

15:57:23 [bglimm]

... how far from LC?

15:57:43 [AxelPolleres]

2nd week of Jan seems realistic.

15:57:45 [bglimm]

Alex: I think second week of Jan could be doable, mid January

15:58:02 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Ent. Regimes

15:58:25 [bglimm]

RIF:imports is now resolved

15:58:44 [bglimm]

... next week we discuss Enrico's comments

15:59:04 [bglimm]

Sandro: I have some issues that I'll try to make precise

15:59:24 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: next doc: Service Descriptions

15:59:33 [bglimm]

Chime: No outstanding issues

15:59:38 [chimezie]

Zakim, unmute me

15:59:38 [Zakim]

Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted

15:59:47 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: HTTP-update?

16:00:03 [chimezie]

http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/HTTP-UPDATE-ISSUES

16:00:03 [bglimm]

??: I tried to solve open issues on the wiki

16:00:14 [bglimm]

s/??/Chime/

16:00:48 [bglimm]

... AndyS and Steve had some issues with relative URIs and I summarized them

16:01:02 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: We can go through that in one of the next tele conferences

16:01:04 [AxelPolleres]

ACITON: Axel to put http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/HTTP-UPDATE-ISSUES on one of the next agendas

16:01:15 [AxelPolleres]

ACTION: Axel to put http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/HTTP-UPDATE-ISSUES on one of the next agendas

16:01:15 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-351 - Put http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/HTTP-UPDATE-ISSUES on one of the next agendas [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].

16:01:21 [chimezie]

Zakim, mute me

16:01:21 [Zakim]

Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted

16:01:36 [bglimm]

AxelPolleres: Fed. Queries we'll get an update from Carlos shortly

16:01:55 [bglimm]

... Overview is just one afternoon's work and not that critical

16:02:13 [Zakim]

-Chimezie_Ogbuji

16:02:13 [MattPerry]

bye

16:02:14 [bglimm]

adjourned

16:02:14 [AxelPolleres]

adjourned

16:02:15 [Zakim]

-Sandro

16:02:16 [Zakim]

-cbuilara

16:02:16 [Zakim]

-pgearon

16:02:19 [Zakim]

-AlexPassant

16:02:20 [Zakim]

-MattPerry

16:02:21 [Zakim]

-AxelPolleres

16:02:22 [Zakim]

-OlivierCorby

16:02:23 [Zakim]

-NickH

16:02:28 [Zakim]

-AndyS

16:02:30 [Zakim]

-kasei

16:03:14 [bglimm]

RRSAgent, generate minutes

16:03:14 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-minutes.html bglimm

16:03:20 [Zakim]

-Souri

16:03:34 [bglimm]

rrsagent, make logs world

16:04:45 [Zakim]

-bglimm

16:04:46 [Zakim]

SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended

16:04:47 [Zakim]

Attendees were cbuilara, NickH, OlivierCorby, kasei, Sandro, AxelPolleres, Chimezie_Ogbuji, AndyS, MattPerry, pgearon, bglimm, AlexPassant, [IPcaller], Souri

16:06:52 [AxelPolleres]

regrets: LeeF, SteveH

16:09:07 [bglimm]

Sandro, are you still there?

16:09:17 [bglimm]

I get an error when I try to copy the chat log

16:10:14 [bglimm]

rrsagent, draft minutes

16:10:14 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-minutes.html bglimm

16:11:11 [bglimm]

rrsagent, make logs world

16:11:20 [bglimm]

rrsagent, make minutes world

16:11:20 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world', bglimm. Try /msg RRSAgent help

16:12:45 [sandro]

bglimm, hey.

16:12:51 [sandro]

RRSAgent, pointer?

16:12:51 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc#T16-12-51

16:13:47 [bglimm]

hm, but I can't use that for the webpage that converts that into wiki

16:13:48 [bglimm]

http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/?group=sparql&go=Use+This+Group

16:14:45 [bglimm]

That just gives a python script error

16:14:57 [bglimm]

Cannot parse RRSAgent URL

16:15:24 [bglimm]

If I remove the #..., I get

16:15:26 [bglimm]

HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden

16:15:27 [bglimm]

close = <bound method HTTPError.close of <HTTPError at 4...8482504 whose fp = <socket._fileobject object>>>>

16:15:27 [bglimm]

code = 403

16:15:28 [bglimm]

filename = 'http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc.txt'

16:15:28 [bglimm]

fileno = <bound method _fileobject.fileno of <socket._fileobject object>>

16:15:28 [bglimm]

fp = <addinfourl at 47942438482504 whose fp = <socket._fileobject object>>

16:15:30 [bglimm]

geturl = <bound method HTTPError.geturl of <HTTPError at ...8482504 whose fp = <socket._fileobject object>>>>

16:15:33 [bglimm]

hdrs = <httplib.HTTPMessage instance>

16:15:35 [bglimm]

headers = <httplib.HTTPMessage instance>

16:15:37 [bglimm]

info = <bound method HTTPError.info of <HTTPError at 47...8482504 whose fp = <socket._fileobject object>>>>

16:15:40 [bglimm]

msg = 'Forbidden'

16:15:42 [bglimm]

next = <bound method _fileobject.next of <socket._fileobject object>>

16:15:44 [bglimm]

read = <bound method _fileobject.read of <socket._fileobject object>>

16:15:46 [bglimm]

readline = <bound method _fileobject.readline of <socket._fileobject object>>

16:15:48 [bglimm]

readlines = <bound method _fileobject.readlines of <socket._fileobject object>>

16:15:50 [bglimm]

url = 'http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc.txt'

16:15:52 [bglimm]

and indeed I don't have access to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc.txt

16:16:12 [sandro]

Yeah, I see that, too. :-(

16:16:16 [sandro]

You don't have access to that?

16:16:20 [bglimm]

No

16:16:26 [bglimm]

Sorry, Insufficient Access Privileges

16:16:46 [bglimm]

You do not have sufficient privileges to access the page that you requested. Some possible reasons:

16:16:47 [bglimm]

The level of access required for this page is inconsistent with your account.

16:16:47 [bglimm]

There is not yet an access level assigned to this page. If you have been granted rights to do so, you can try to set or change the access level for this resource using the ,access tool.

16:16:55 [AxelPolleres]

rrsagent, make records public

16:17:05 [AxelPolleres]

now ?

16:17:14 [bglimm]

but if I try ,access it says the file is world readable

16:17:19 [AxelPolleres]

birte, you know thee drill for commonscribe?

16:17:32 [AxelPolleres]

(if so, I focus on last week's minutes...

16:17:35 [bglimm]

No, but I tried that command already twice Axel

16:18:04 [bglimm]

Well, I have Lee's email and try to follow that

16:18:15 [bglimm]

but it doesn't work

16:18:30 [sandro]

It's possible the w3.org access-control system is broken / out of sync, so it looks okay in some places, but isn't okay in other places. :-(

16:20:58 [bglimm]

:-(

16:21:11 [sandro]

bglimm, so you can't see http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc.txt but can you see http://nelson.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc.txt

16:21:30 [bglimm]

I can now see the first

16:21:35 [bglimm]

but not the second

16:22:00 [bglimm]

but the tool for wiki conversion still complaints that it can't access the file

16:24:07 [bglimm]

Can I do it tomorrow maybe? I'd like to finish some other stuff today

16:24:10 [AxelPolleres]

I can access http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc but I can't run common-scribe's copying-IRC-to-wiki tool

16:24:19 [bglimm]

Yes, same for me

16:24:36 [AxelPolleres]

I need to run, if you can sort that tomorrow that's great.

16:24:49 [AxelPolleres]

btw, I just generated and sent out the last week's minutes

16:25:00 [bglimm]

I hope I can, depends on whether the tool is willing though

16:25:01 [AxelPolleres]

thanks for scribing!

16:25:12 [sandro]

done, bglimm

16:25:20 [bglimm]

wow, how did you do it?

16:25:38 [AxelPolleres]

AxelPolleres has left #sparql

16:25:43 [sandro]

(I changed the access to Member-Only, then back to World, and then the script could read it. So, yes, the ACL system was broken.)

16:25:49 [bglimm]

I can see the wiki version now :-)

16:25:53 [bglimm]

Thanks!

16:27:56 [bglimm]

bglimm has joined #sparql

16:55:02 [LeeF]

LeeF has joined #sparql

17:38:52 [kasei]

AndyS, still around?

17:39:48 [AndyS]

Yes (not for long though) - just replyin to Chime's msg of 30/Nov

17:40:19 [kasei]

do you remember if we talked about or resolved what the capitalization should be for results of the hashing functions?

17:41:00 [kasei]

i just committed tests for those functions, but didn't remember what we had said about capitalization...

17:41:47 [AndyS]

Don't think we did. FOAF and sha1sum, md5sum use LC, XSD HexBinary used UC. /me doesn't care and used LC or UC convention inconsitently anyway. Guess FOAF is more improtant for semweb -> sha1 -> LC => all LC.

17:42:13 [kasei]

ok. that was my thinking, too.

17:42:23 [kasei]

and conveniently how the perl modules emit their hex.

17:44:10 [kasei]

should I also assume the hashing is done on utf8 encoding of literals?

17:46:22 [cbuilara]

cbuilara has left #sparql

17:57:06 [AndyS]

Guess so (= that's what I do!)

18:10:32 [kasei]

right. committed another test.

18:10:42 [kasei]

only MD5 for unicode at the moment

18:24:55 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #sparql

18:25:12 [AndyS]

Does Perl have a SHA224? Java only supports NIST FIPS 180-2, not 180-3 which includes SHA-224.

19:03:45 [kasei]

yes, it has all the shas

19:04:11 [kasei]

Digest::SHA

19:38:07 [AndyS]

AndyS has joined #sparql