IRC log of html-a11y on 2010-12-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

21:57:10 [RRSAgent]
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21:57:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-html-a11y-irc
21:57:17 [janina]
zakim, this will be 2119
21:57:17 [Zakim]
ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
21:57:33 [janina]
rrsagent, make log public
21:57:41 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:57:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
21:57:46 [janina]
zakim, call janina
21:57:46 [Zakim]
ok, janina; the call is being made
21:57:47 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:00PM has now started
21:57:48 [Zakim]
+Janina
21:58:48 [janina]
Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
21:58:48 [janina]
Chair: John_Foliot
21:58:48 [janina]
agenda: this
21:58:48 [janina]
agenda+ Identify Scribe
21:58:48 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
21:58:49 [janina]
agenda+ Candidate Formats Report http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/TextFormat_Pros_Cons_Overview#Summary_o
21:58:51 [janina]
agenda+ Poster Issue http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0054.html
21:58:53 [janina]
agenda+ Strategy for Synchronizing binary alternative media
21:58:55 [janina]
agenda+ Emerging Related Working Groups
21:58:56 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business?
21:58:59 [janina]
agenda+ Meeting Scheduling Through January 5
21:59:01 [janina]
agenda+ be done
21:59:08 [janina]
zakim, next item
21:59:08 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from janina]
21:59:16 [janina]
scribe: janina
21:59:24 [janina]
zakim, next item
21:59:24 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, janina
21:59:32 [janina]
zakim, close item 1
21:59:32 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
21:59:33 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:59:34 [Zakim]
2. Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from janina]
22:00:07 [janina]
zakim, next item
22:00:07 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
22:04:44 [Zakim]
+Judy
22:04:57 [Judy]
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22:07:04 [Judy]
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22:09:58 [Judy]
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22:11:07 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
22:11:18 [Zakim]
+Eric_Carlson
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22:14:06 [plh]
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22:14:14 [Zakim]
+Plh
22:14:17 [Zakim]
+John_Foliot
22:15:10 [JF]
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22:15:23 [JF]
hello
22:15:42 [janina]
we're here
22:17:03 [janina]
zakim, next item
22:17:03 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Candidate Formats Report http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/TextFormat_Pros_Cons_Overview#Summary_o" taken up [from janina]
22:17:33 [Judy]
Judy has changed the topic to: Agenda is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0108.html
22:19:46 [janina]
jf: Concerned whether concerns expressed in email have been captured in this doc
22:20:11 [janina]
jf: Seems Sean's changes are there
22:20:22 [janina]
jf: Does seem there were changes made
22:20:59 [janina]
jf: Seems Sean, Silvia, and Geoff have edited this doc
22:28:58 [janina]
discussion whether correct characterization of ttml profiling is captured in the doc
22:29:32 [janina]
ec: fairly confident that current wording reflect's Sean's view
22:32:50 [janina]
ec: Strongly believe Sean's view is that the basic profile contains all we need.
22:34:44 [janina]
jb: Aren't most formats tricky to author? Is WebSRT easy to author?
22:34:47 [janina]
ec: Yes, easy
22:35:34 [janina]
jf: Feel authoring by hand is a red herring
22:35:42 [janina]
jf: Good tools are available.
22:36:29 [janina]
ec: There are strong opinions to the contrary as well, though. Just pointing out that people strongly diverge on this.
22:39:22 [janina]
jf: Any reason not to move this forward with the proviso that it's still open to additional input?
22:40:04 [janina]
jb: So, we know that Sean, Silvia, and Geoff have edited the doc, and have met their obligations to get this done
22:40:36 [janina]
jb: Only remaining concern is that we have email saying Paul Cotton would join the call to speak to this. Perhaps he will still come.
22:40:57 [janina]
jb: Does anyone object to moving this forward?
22:41:02 [janina]
no objection heard
22:41:15 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
22:42:16 [paulc]
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22:43:07 [janina]
pc: Nothing to share on this doc.
22:43:54 [janina]
jf: Shall we forward this doc?
22:44:07 [JF]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/TextFormat_Pros_Cons_Overview
22:44:27 [Judy]
+1
22:44:40 [janina]
No objections. We'll forward this on.
22:44:56 [janina]
Janina will forwrd.
22:45:10 [janina]
zakim, next item
22:45:10 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Poster Issue http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0054.html" taken up [from janina]
22:49:41 [janina]
ec: Spec asks poster to be shown until media is available
22:50:56 [janina]
ec: spec doesn't mandate behavior -- webkit currently shows first frame of video whether or not autoplay is on
22:51:52 [janina]
ec: I don't understand why page author should usedifferent ml for external poster vs first frame of video
22:52:29 [janina]
jf: first frame of video is direct relation to video
22:52:35 [janina]
ec: absolutely not--anything can go there
22:55:24 [janina]
ec: why should there be different ml based on whether the poster is embedded?
22:56:12 [janina]
js: asks for confirmation
22:56:29 [janina]
ec: yes, whether external or first frame of video, ml should be the same. this is crucial
23:01:38 [janina]
jb: we could use zindex
23:01:59 [janina]
ec: but that's a different situation
23:02:09 [janina]
jf: but that's what authors will do
23:02:24 [Zakim]
-Plh
23:02:40 [janina]
jf: we can say that's not the intent, but they will because they can
23:02:52 [janina]
jf: my concern is that poster will be misunderstood
23:03:43 [janina]
ec: so how do you ml? where it's the poster image that has nothing to do with the rest of the video?
23:03:55 [janina]
jf: alt is the text on screen
23:06:49 [janina]
jf: if there's confusion among people very close to this now, how will authors be less so?
23:07:15 [janina]
jf: suggest either summary or aria-describedby most suitable
23:07:37 [janina]
ec: excellent idea
23:07:50 [janina]
jf: so that alt on video is unsupported ...
23:08:25 [janina]
jf: so that we have all kinds of things inside the video elements -- tracks, poster etc.
23:08:33 [janina]
jf: a poster element s child element of video
23:08:41 [paulc]
I have to go to another meeting.
23:08:50 [janina]
Thanks, Paul
23:08:52 [paulc]
My apologies for arriving late and leaving early.
23:08:57 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft.a]
23:09:30 [janina]
jf: all the supporting bits of the presentation are within the video tag
23:10:01 [janina]
ec: terrible idea -- seems we won't agree
23:12:10 [janina]
jf: it's self explanatory
23:12:25 [janina]
jb: are there other opinions on this?
23:14:15 [janina]
jb: it's certainly important to understand the user needs and then to line engineering up with that
23:14:49 [janina]
ec: john, do you think having different ml would not be confusing?
23:16:12 [Judy]
agenda?
23:16:40 [Judy]
zakim, who's here?
23:16:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Janina, Judy, [Microsoft], Eric_Carlson, John_Foliot
23:16:42 [Zakim]
On IRC I see paulc, JF, frankolivier, Judy, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, MikeSmith, oedipus_away, trackbot, sideshow
23:17:51 [janina]
No
23:19:06 [Judy]
rrsagent, do not start a new log
23:21:12 [janina]
jf: so video should take alt?
23:21:14 [janina]
ec: no
23:21:44 [janina]
ec: only that textual description of the element should be there however the image is rendered--whether the image is embedded or a separate file
23:22:41 [Zakim]
+Eric_Carlson.a
23:22:49 [Zakim]
-Eric_Carlson
23:23:06 [Judy]
zakim, who's here?
23:23:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Janina, Judy, [Microsoft], John_Foliot, Eric_Carlson.a
23:23:08 [Zakim]
On IRC I see paulc, JF, frankolivier, Judy, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, MikeSmith, oedipus_away, trackbot, sideshow
23:24:36 [janina]
jf: we need to tell authors that first frame is treated the same way as an external jpg or png
23:25:10 [janina]
ec: not an image element
23:25:13 [janina]
jf: but an image file
23:26:09 [janina]
ec: describing the poster isn't enough, we need the video described too
23:30:49 [janina]
jf: don't know how to answer this any further at this point ...
23:31:52 [janina]
ec: poster as first frame will be very common
23:32:10 [janina]
jf: don't think that's the only scenario
23:36:20 [Zakim]
-Eric_Carlson.a
23:36:22 [Zakim]
-Judy
23:36:22 [Zakim]
-Janina
23:36:24 [Zakim]
-John_Foliot
23:36:26 [janina]
zakim, bye
23:36:26 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Janina, Judy, [Microsoft], Eric_Carlson, Plh, John_Foliot
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23:36:33 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
23:36:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
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