16:05:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
16:05:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-forms-irc
16:05:26 <klotz> zakim, this will be forms
16:05:27 <Zakim> ok, klotz, I see IA_XForms()11:00AM already started
16:05:33 <klotz> rrsagent, maek log public
16:05:33 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'maek log public', klotz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:05:41 <klotz> rrsagent, make log public
16:05:45 <klotz> zakim, code?
16:05:45 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), klotz
16:06:16 <Zakim> +Leigh_Klotz
16:06:20 <klotz> zakim, who is here?
16:06:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfennell, ??P7, John_Boyer, Leigh_Klotz
16:06:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Alain_, klotz, John_Boyer, dshabano, pfennell, markbirbeck, trackbot
16:07:17 <nick> nick has joined #forms
16:07:18 <nick> nick has left #forms
16:07:23 <nick> nick has joined #forms
16:07:34 <nick> nick has joined #forms
16:07:57 <klotz> nick are you calling in?
16:08:18 <nick> yes
16:08:24 <nick> zakim, code?
16:08:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), nick
16:08:38 <klotz> dshabano, hello. This is W3C Forms.
16:09:02 <dshabano> hi klotz 
16:09:04 <Zakim> +Nick_van_den_Bleeken
16:09:41 <klotz> dshabano can you let us know who you are?
16:09:57 <nick> scribe: nick
16:09:58 <klotz> scribe: nick
16:10:01 <klotz> scribenick: nick
16:10:21 <Zakim> -??P7
16:10:22 <Zakim> +KurtCagle
16:10:58 <Zakim> +??P7
16:11:09 <nick> TOPIC: Meetings in december
16:11:54 <klotz> zakim, who is noisy?
16:11:57 <nick> klotz: steven is off for the remainder of the year
16:12:04 <Zakim> klotz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfennell (60%), Leigh_Klotz (19%)
16:12:27 <nick> pfennell: I won't be around for the 22th and 29th
16:12:41 <nick> nick: 29th I won't be available
16:12:53 <nick> Alain_: 29th no
16:13:20 <nick> klotz: 29th we will cancel
16:13:59 <klotz> zakim, who is noisy?
16:14:07 <nick> klotz: the 22th is a maybe, we will decide next week
16:14:11 <Zakim> klotz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: John_Boyer (19%), Leigh_Klotz (19%), KurtCagle (14%)
16:14:26 <nick> klotz: 15th we wil have a meeting
16:14:33 <nick> s/wil/will/
16:14:53 <nick> klotz: January 6th is on too
16:15:08 <klotz> zakim, who is noisy?
16:15:22 <Zakim> klotz, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Leigh_Klotz (52%), KurtCagle (42%)
16:16:16 <nick> TOPIC: New last call for CSS 2.1
16:16:30 <nick> klotz: does anybody wants to review it
16:16:41 <nick> klotz: we will bring it up again next week
16:16:54 <nick> TOPIC: select1 and whitespace handling
16:17:42 <nick> nick: it is about trimming the values
16:18:24 <John_Boyer> http://www.w3.org/TR/xforms11/#ui-selectOne
16:20:19 <nick> Kurt:for  select space is a separator so no spaces are allowed in the values
16:20:38 <nick> klotz: for select1 we support spaces inside the value
16:20:55 <nick> kurt: how does it behave in xf:input
16:21:24 <nick> klotz: when you type spaces they will be put in the instance
16:21:46 <nick> John_Boyer: I would expect the spaces are part of the value
16:22:02 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
16:22:05 <klotz> "For both closed and open selections, any selection item with a storage value which is empty or which contains only white space characters must remain deselected."
16:22:23 <nick> klotz: In select one there is text about empty and only spaces
16:22:24 <klotz> Erik we are on this http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Dec/0002.html
16:22:34 <ebruchez> thanks
16:22:57 <nick> klotz: why is there an exception for empty 
16:24:08 <nick> John_Boyer: we don't match empty in select controls
16:24:20 <nick> klotz: so we can't have a label for empty
16:24:33 <nick> John_Boyer: you are correct leigh
16:24:43 <ebruchez> zakim, code?
16:24:43 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), ebruchez
16:24:46 <nick> klotz: I wonder if it isn't copied from select
16:24:54 <nick> John_Boyer: I don't think so
16:25:10 <Zakim> +??P6
16:25:19 <nick> klotz: the sentences are in both select and select1
16:25:26 <ebruchez> zakim, ??P6 is ebruchez
16:25:26 <Zakim> +ebruchez; got it
16:25:51 <nick> nick: for select1 we support a label for an empty value
16:26:04 <nick> nick: most of the time it is 'None'
16:28:11 <nick> John_Boyer: you can't select an empty value, because it looks broken to the end user when you use required and have something selected is now invalid
16:29:21 <nick> John_Boyer: in the open case you don't select anything when you type the empty value
16:29:56 <nick> John_Boyer: to go back to the question, we don't talk about trimming the value before comparing the value
16:31:45 <nick> Kurt: Is there a way to specify a label for the empty value
16:32:31 <nick> klotz: that is the follow up question on which nick said that they implemented it, we should also discuss the out of range
16:35:30 <klotz> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Dec/0002.html
16:35:41 <nick> ACTION: klotz to respond http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms/2010Dec/0002.html
16:35:41 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - klotz
16:36:34 <nick> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users
16:37:46 <nick> ACTION: klotz to send an e-mail about white space collapse on the select1 control
16:37:46 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - klotz
16:39:02 <nick> TOPIC: JSON
16:39:50 <nick> Alain_: I want to add extra elements 
16:40:21 <nick> Alain_: we added the root element I would like to add it in a specific namespace 
16:42:26 <nick> Alain_: There is a problem with names that can be specified as an element name, we have a special name attribute, it should also be in a specific namespace
16:43:08 <nick> Alain_: I want to change the behavior of local-name and full-name functions to take the json name attribute into acount
16:43:32 <nick> nick: I'm opposed to changing behavior of standard xpath functions
16:43:46 <nick> nick: we could add an xf:json-name() functions
16:45:18 <nick> Alain_: we need to distinguish between named and un-named arrays
16:47:20 <nick> Alain_: I will post the examples to illustrate how I worked around the array problem 
16:47:59 <nick> Alain_: There is problem with empty array I use xsi:nill to detect it
16:48:27 <John_Boyer> s/xsi:nill/xsi:nil
16:48:27 <nick> Alain_: we should add a function xf:is-json-arry and xf:is-empty-array
16:50:37 <nick> Alain_: summarize: I use xsi:type, and added an extra attribute to signal an array
16:51:16 <nick> kurt: What prior art exists for mapping JSON and XML
16:53:40 <nick> klotz: In the agenda we have a history on the JSON support in XForms the 'standardized' conversions are  all kind of fish like badgerfish
16:54:11 <nick> klotz: but we have another goal we want the JSON to survive the round trip
16:54:36 <nick> klotz: there are xpath extra functions, extra elements and extra attributes
16:55:00 <nick> klotz: In which state is your XML prague paper
16:55:10 <nick> Alain_: it is almost finished
16:55:45 <nick> klotz: Could you send an e-mail with a short overview of the changes to the list 
16:57:24 <nick> ACTION: Alain to send the main changes needed to support JSON in XForms to mailing list
16:57:24 <trackbot> Could not create new action (unparseable data in server response: No child element named 'id') - please contact sysreq with the details of what happened.
16:59:46 <nick> klotz: We will discuss the XML dev thread on next call
17:00:10 <nick> http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/201012/threads.html
17:01:18 <Zakim> -John_Boyer
17:01:19 <Zakim> -Leigh_Klotz
17:01:19 <Zakim> -KurtCagle
17:01:25 <Zakim> -??P7
17:01:28 <Zakim> -pfennell
17:01:59 <nick> zakim, who is here?
17:02:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Nick_van_den_Bleeken, ebruchez
17:02:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see ebruchez, nick, RRSAgent, Zakim, Alain_, klotz, John_Boyer, dshabano, pfennell, markbirbeck, trackbot
17:02:25 <Zakim> -ebruchez
17:03:21 <Zakim> -Nick_van_den_Bleeken
17:03:22 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
17:03:24 <Zakim> Attendees were pfennell, John_Boyer, Leigh_Klotz, Nick_van_den_Bleeken, KurtCagle, ebruchez
17:04:27 <dshabano> I have question: is it possible to use <select> RESTful way?
17:05:33 <dshabano> items list quite big, RESTful style can solve it for me, but can't find it at spec ...
17:40:42 <klotz> klotz has joined #forms
17:40:53 <klotz> rrsagent, make minutes
17:40:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-forms-minutes.html klotz
17:41:20 <klotz> klotz has joined #forms
17:41:30 <klotz> rrsagent, make minutes public
17:41:30 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', klotz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
19:09:02 <Zakim> Zakim has left #forms