IRC log of html-a11y on 2010-12-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:07:50 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #html-a11y
00:18:28 [Judy]: Judy has joined #html-a11y
00:36:31 [Judy]: Judy has joined #html-a11y
01:31:43 [Judy]: Judy has joined #html-a11y
02:00:12 [Judy]: Judy has joined #html-a11y
02:04:11 [MikeSmith_]: MikeSmith_ has joined #html-a11y
02:06:19 [MikeSmith]: MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
02:15:13 [Judy]: Judy has joined #html-a11y
02:41:15 [Judy]: Judy has joined #html-a11y
04:44:20 [MikeSmith]: MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
06:14:14 [Judy]: Judy has joined #html-a11y
08:01:21 [silvia]: MikeSmith: the examples from my book are not up at http://html5videoguide.net/ <- might be useful for the video element test suite for html5
08:05:59 [MikeSmith]: you mean "now up"?
09:18:05 [silvia]: yes :)
15:57:43 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:57:43 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-irc
15:57:54 [janina]: zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML
15:57:56 [Zakim]: ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:58:07 [janina]: zakim, call janina
15:58:11 [Zakim]: ok, janina; the call is being made
15:58:15 [Zakim]: WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started
15:58:17 [MichaelC]: MichaelC has joined #html-a11y
15:58:19 [Zakim]: +Janina
15:58:37 [janina]: rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:37 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
15:58:46 [janina]: rrsagent, make log public
15:58:53 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
15:59:03 [janina]: Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
15:59:03 [janina]: Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:59:03 [janina]: agenda: this
15:59:03 [janina]: agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:59:03 [janina]: agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:59:04 [janina]: agenda+ Fallbacks http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Nov/0246.html
15:59:06 [janina]: agenda+ Issue=133 Modal-Attribute
15:59:08 [janina]: agenda+ Issue-122 Lady of Shalott Example
15:59:08 [paulc]: zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
15:59:09 [Zakim]: +paulc; got it
15:59:10 [MichaelC]: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0020.html
15:59:10 [janina]: agenda+ Issue-80 Title as alt text
15:59:12 [janina]: agenda+ Issue-31 Resolving alt text guidance
15:59:14 [janina]: agenda+ Keyboard Access Next Steps http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0105.html
15:59:16 [janina]: agenda+ Drag & Drop http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0056.html
15:59:18 [janina]: agenda+ Forms Accessibility
15:59:20 [janina]: agenda+ Issue-134 TabList-Role http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10831#c4
15:59:22 [janina]: agenda+ Revisiting Issue-30 longdesc
15:59:24 [janina]: agenda+ Subteam Reports: Canvas; ARIA Mappings; Media; Bug Triage
15:59:26 [richardschwerdtfe]: richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:59:26 [janina]: agenda+ Meeting Schedule Through January 6
15:59:28 [janina]: agenda+ be done
15:59:45 [donevans_]: donevans_ has joined #html-a11y
15:59:52 [Zakim]: +Rich
15:59:59 [Zakim]: +Eric_Carlson
16:00:12 [Zakim]: +Michael_Cooper
16:00:21 [JF]: JF has joined #html-a11y
16:00:29 [kliehm]: kliehm has joined #html-a11y
16:00:49 [Zakim]: +Gregory_Rosmaita
16:01:08 [Zakim]: +John_Foliot
16:01:12 [Zakim]: + +1.703.225.aaaa
16:01:17 [Zakim]: -John_Foliot
16:01:31 [eric]: eric has joined #html-a11y
16:02:03 [MichaelC]: zakim, aaaa is Don_Evans
16:02:03 [Zakim]: +Don_Evans; got it
16:02:25 [Zakim]: +John_Foliot
16:02:28 [donevans]: donevans has joined #html-a11y
16:02:45 [Zakim]: +kliehm
16:03:24 [oedipus]: zakim, who is here?
16:03:24 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Janina, [Microsoft], Rich, Eric_Carlson, Michael_Cooper, Gregory_Rosmaita, Don_Evans, John_Foliot, kliehm (muted)
16:03:26 [Zakim]: [Microsoft] has paulc
16:03:27 [Zakim]: On IRC I see donevans, eric, kliehm, JF, richardschwerdtfe, MichaelC, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, paulc, oedipus, Judy, davidb, trackbot, sideshow
16:03:46 [Zakim]: +Léonie_Watson
16:04:29 [Leonie_Watson]: Leonie_Watson has joined #html-a11y
16:04:47 [richardschwerdtfe]: scribe: Rich
16:04:51 [janina]: zakim, who's here?
16:04:51 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Janina, [Microsoft], Rich, Eric_Carlson, Michael_Cooper, Gregory_Rosmaita, Don_Evans, John_Foliot, kliehm (muted), Léonie_Watson
16:04:53 [Zakim]: [Microsoft] has paulc
16:04:54 [Zakim]: On IRC I see Leonie_Watson, donevans, eric, kliehm, JF, richardschwerdtfe, MichaelC, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, paulc, oedipus, Judy, davidb, trackbot, sideshow
16:04:58 [richardschwerdtfe]: Topic: Action Items
16:05:11 [richardschwerdtfe]: Topic: Action 85
16:05:26 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: still not done. give me another week
16:05:43 [MichaelC]: action-85 due 9 Dec
16:05:43 [trackbot]: ACTION-85 Find someone to create a change proposal for ISSUE-80 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/80 due date now 9 Dec
16:05:48 [richardschwerdtfe]: michael: due 12/9
16:06:23 [richardschwerdtfe]: Topic: 86
16:06:50 [richardschwerdtfe]: change proposal due tomorrow
16:07:04 [MichaelC]: action-87 due 5 Jan 2011
16:07:04 [trackbot]: ACTION-87 Create change proposal for ISSUE-134 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134 due date now 5 Jan 2011
16:07:06 [richardschwerdtfe]: Topic: 87
16:07:18 [richardschwerdtfe]: michael: now dow january 5
16:07:39 [richardschwerdtfe]: Topic: Fallback mechanisms
16:08:15 [oedipus]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Nov/0278.html
16:08:31 [richardschwerdtfe]: Martin: there are a lot of elements that have a lot of fallback mechanism, like alternative text on images
16:08:41 [richardschwerdtfe]: Martin: we have the same for MathML
16:08:49 [richardschwerdtfe]: Martin: we have some that have repair fallback
16:09:04 [oedipus]: MK's list of element types:
16:09:06 [oedipus]: 1. elements like <img> and <math> that have some kind of @alt on the top element,
16:09:07 [oedipus]: 2. elements like <video>, <audio>, <svg>, <source>, and <map> where there is some kind of @alt on a child element, but no @summary on the container,
16:09:09 [oedipus]: 3. elements like <object>, <video>, <audio>, and <canvas> that have repair fallback, but no accessible fallback like exposure to AT (yet).
16:09:11 [oedipus]: 4. elements like <iframe> and <embed> that do not have any fallback content at all.
16:09:17 [richardschwerdtfe]: Martin: For example the object element can have an image that can be a repair
16:09:34 [richardschwerdtfe]: Martin: we have the canvas element which can have a shadow DOM
16:09:59 [richardschwerdtfe]: Martin: We need to define how the accessibility of fallback content can be handled consistently
16:10:30 [richardschwerdtfe]: Martin: Image has no child elements. So, it has fallback content attached to it. However video does not
16:10:41 [richardschwerdtfe]: Martin: the track element dos
16:10:45 [richardschwerdtfe]: s/dos/does
16:11:05 [janina]: q?
16:11:13 [richardschwerdtfe]: Martin: we recommend to normalize and harmonize the repair fallback mechanisms for embedded fallback content
16:11:39 [oedipus]: re: iframe, there is a bug filed on behalf of the UAWG on requiring @title for FRAME and IFRAME
16:11:49 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10709
16:12:32 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: are we sure that for all of these that we need each of those boxes checked off?
16:13:02 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: the alternative content for video may be more than one alternative. we may not have them all.
16:13:18 [Zakim]: +Cynthia_Shelly
16:13:22 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina; for example, we could have sign language in specific languages
16:13:40 [cyns]: cyns has joined #html-a11y
16:13:53 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: people may have premixed these things and then we have a labelling issue
16:14:10 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: here is a video with "baked in" audio descriptions
16:14:31 [MichaelC]: q+
16:14:32 [richardschwerdtfe]: martin: that is true. We also track an audio and video and describe the types of tracks they are
16:14:39 [richardschwerdtfe]: q?
16:14:49 [JF]: q+
16:15:13 [richardschwerdtfe]: martin: it would be nice to know what the topic is of an MP3 file is. We don't know what a track is about.
16:15:29 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: I agree. Knowing what it is about is an issue for everyone
16:15:47 [janina]: q?
16:15:52 [janina]: ack m
16:16:08 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: I did not look at tracks. there may be a lack of understanding on my part.
16:16:46 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: The use case table does not define all the text alternatives an object can have. The situational dependency is outside the scope of this discussion
16:17:13 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: I was trying to do an exercise of creating a restricted set of fallbacks and define some patterns
16:17:18 [janina]: ack j
16:17:36 [richardschwerdtfe]: john: I have 2 questions largely related to video although probably pertain to audio too
16:17:58 [richardschwerdtfe]: John: there has been some discussion as to whether the poster frame should have a text description
16:18:11 [kliehm]: ISSUE-142?
16:18:11 [trackbot]: ISSUE-142 does not exist
16:18:22 [kliehm]: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/142
16:18:40 [Zakim]: -Léonie_Watson
16:18:42 [richardschwerdtfe]: John: should the poster be an alt attribute of video. Am I out in left field?
16:18:59 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: the alt attribute was not in the version of spec. I reviewed
16:19:00 [JF]: JF note to self to ensure @alt is part of <video>
16:19:00 [kliehm]: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10642
16:19:33 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: This exercise (HTML 5 mapping) as of the editors draft was only an inventoried snapshot
16:19:49 [Zakim]: +Léonie_Watson
16:19:52 [janina]: q?
16:19:58 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: The end goal was was to use the existing support table and how we back fill it
16:20:16 [richardschwerdtfe]: John: does the alt attribute for the video also serve as the alt attribute of poster?
16:20:30 [oedipus]: GJR treat separately
16:20:37 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: I would propose that they treated separately
16:20:44 [richardschwerdtfe]: gregory: separately
16:21:23 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: The alt attribute for short text alternatives should be a label.
16:21:32 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: this is more than just accessibility
16:22:32 [richardschwerdtfe]: eric: I am going to agree that I don't believe it is necessary to have a short text description of the video and the poster.
16:22:49 [richardschwerdtfe]: john: very often the image has nothing to do with the video
16:23:01 [oedipus]: poster info may have name of actors, director, producer, writer, etc.
16:23:12 [oedipus]: video @alt is "name of video"
16:23:19 [richardschwerdtfe]: John: for example, many of the videos we have on campus read say "Stanford university. this is closed captioned"
16:23:32 [richardschwerdtfe]: John: I believe we have two unique and discreet assets
16:24:00 [richardschwerdtfe]: John: we do not need a short text alternative that describes both if both are being declared by the author
16:24:16 [richardschwerdtfe]: John: does anyone disagree that the poster should have alt text
16:24:17 [richardschwerdtfe]: ?
16:24:26 [kliehm]: q?
16:25:16 [richardschwerdtfe]: gregory: what you are going to get for the alt for the video but for the poster you would have a lot more text
16:25:31 [richardschwerdtfe]: eric: whether the video has a poster attribute or not it needs to be described.
16:26:00 [richardschwerdtfe]: eric: I calling it as a description of the poster is a mistake
16:26:25 [richardschwerdtfe]: john: we can use aria-describedby to describe the video
16:26:31 [oedipus]: oedipus has joined #html-a11y
16:27:01 [richardschwerdtfe]: john: I am most concerned that the author creates a graphic alternative that the text equivalent be accurate
16:27:48 [richardschwerdtfe]: eric: what should I use when the poster is the first frame of the video?
16:29:10 [richardschwerdtfe]: john: the fallback should be such that it becomes a child of the video. It should be declared as a unique asset
16:29:20 [kliehm]: @label: Casablanca. @poster: Black-and-white film screenshot of a man and woman as seen from the shoulders up. The two are close to each other as if about to kiss.
16:29:22 [janina]: q?
16:30:15 [richardschwerdtfe]: eric: why should the markup be different when it is used as a video vs. a poster?
16:30:52 [richardschwerdtfe]: eric: I am concerned that we will have something more complicated that it needs to be
16:31:35 [richardschwerdtfe]: john: if the author does not specify an image file that the alternative text is not related to the video itself?
16:32:06 [oedipus]: RS: what happens when poster is played and has @alt text -- how does it get passed on?
16:32:31 [oedipus]: JF: poster not played -- an image -- alt from video relates to video itself (name of video, most likely)
16:32:47 [oedipus]: RS: if wasn't used for fallback, does poster get put into video to start?
16:33:31 [oedipus]: JS: there is a way to create the poster -- separate image -- now another way to do poster with first frame of actual video -- all that happens is that first frame is shown as if static image until play initiated
16:33:34 [oedipus]: JF: sounds correct
16:33:50 [oedipus]: RS: so now it is being rendered as video
16:34:01 [oedipus]: JS: first frame of video frozen (paused/no audio)
16:34:11 [oedipus]: RS: how does AT interact with video?
16:35:09 [janina]: q?
16:35:11 [oedipus]: JF: when page first loads, recommendation is that video does not auto-start, so have asset in ready-state -- user has to initiate play -- from visual perspective, if don't declare @poster, will be frame of vide, usually first frame, which is usually a black frame -- if author doesn't do anything else, alt directly related to video
16:35:19 [oedipus]: JF: poster like a curtain
16:35:24 [MichaelC]: q+ to say this has become a media sub-group call; we're halfway through the call time and haven't approached the objectives of the embedded content discussion, and rest of agenda is at risk
16:35:34 [oedipus]: GJR: poster is like a movie poster, video is like the "title card"
16:35:49 [oedipus]: RS: trying to get engineering mapping picture clear
16:36:10 [oedipus]: JF: agree with MCooper that should move on, but would very much like to continue this discussion on list
16:36:15 [oedipus]: JS: agree
16:36:40 [richardschwerdtfe]: Janina: any other use cases we should discuss with this group
16:37:03 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: i have added that track and poster need to be included in the use cases for video
16:37:36 [janina]: q?
16:37:40 [MichaelC]: q-
16:39:08 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: Let me summarize the use cases: short text alternatives, long text alternatives, a label (this is accessibility and not), caption is different and gets confused with accessibility
16:39:13 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:39:27 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: there is direct accessibility where you don't need a fallback
16:39:57 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: there is something called a title attribute which is tooltip but not really the accessible alternative
16:40:11 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: all embedded content needs a tooltip and no fallback is needed
16:40:18 [oedipus]: i/RS: what happens when poster is played /scribenick: oedipus/
16:40:30 [janina]: q?
16:40:51 [oedipus]: i/any other use cases we should discuss with this group/scribenick: richardschwerdtfe/
16:40:54 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:41:02 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: long text alternative applied to most things
16:41:18 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: we did not apply caption to the audio and video elements
16:41:50 [oedipus]: i/ijanina: still not done. give me another week/scribenick: richardschwerdtfe/
16:41:54 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:42:25 [oedipus]: RS: if i am AT would like to know using fallback because original object won't render
16:42:39 [oedipus]: RS: might help solve some of the issues we have -- fallback means something entirely different
16:42:53 [oedipus]: RS: if have poster, that is fallback content image
16:43:18 [oedipus]: MC: identified something described elsewhere in document -- fallback for a11y reasons and fallback for non-support of objects have been confounded
16:44:04 [oedipus]: JS: 2 values to table -- first wonderful collection mechansims to explain wshy things handled diff in diff circumstances so someone not in the ken in a11y can distinguish between alternative text and fallback content
16:44:12 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: what applies in different circumstances
16:44:22 [oedipus]: JS: what applies in certain circumstances, such as video and poster -- any others to examine?
16:44:30 [richardschwerdtfe]: michael: like IFrame, it needs an alt text alternative
16:45:00 [oedipus]: GJR logged bug against HTML5 on behalf of UAWG to make @title mandatory for FRAME and IFRAME since that is what ATs currently use
16:45:10 [richardschwerdtfe]: michael: you might use a short text alternative
16:45:27 [richardschwerdtfe]: michael: the audio and video elements need captions in summary
16:46:05 [oedipus]: i/janina: still not done. give me another week/scribenick: richardschwerdtfe/
16:46:07 [richardschwerdtfe]: martin: it's also object, embed does not but it has fallback for object. So, flash itself could be accessible
16:46:30 [oedipus]: GJR trying to find his media specific element unified approach wiki page -- seems to have disappeared
16:46:31 [richardschwerdtfe]: michael: they could use an image a flash, etc.
16:46:46 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:47:35 [richardschwerdtfe]: john: I tend to agree with sylvia's observation and that video should have caption or summary.
16:48:08 [richardschwerdtfe]: michael: we have not looked at mandatory and not what needs to be possible
16:48:25 [richardschwerdtfe]: michael: does anyone object to expanding it?
16:48:31 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: oK: no objections
16:48:53 [richardschwerdtfe]: michael: this project is going beyond the scope of the bug triage subteam
16:49:22 [richardschwerdtfe]: michael: I guarantee that various people will not like the engineering due to the added attributes
16:49:38 [richardschwerdtfe]: michael: I am not sure that the bug triage team should work on this.
16:49:43 [kliehm]: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8885
16:49:57 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: It seems this is a good approach to solving these issues
16:50:03 [oedipus]: i/janina: still not done. give me another week/scribenick: richardschwerdtfe/
16:50:08 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:50:14 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: I think a gap analysis is needed
16:50:34 [janina]: q?
16:50:37 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: we can expect pushback on the use cases
16:50:44 [richardschwerdtfe]: Michael: we can support the use cases
16:51:21 [MichaelC]: action: cooper to do gap analysis between embedded content use cases and existing support
16:51:21 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-90 - Do gap analysis between embedded content use cases and existing support [on Michael Cooper - due 2010-12-09].
16:51:22 [richardschwerdtfe]: michael: can we review the fallback use cases on the next meeting
16:51:23 [oedipus]: zakim, Rich is richardschwerdtfe
16:51:23 [Zakim]: +richardschwerdtfe; got it
16:51:30 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: yes, but I am traveling
16:51:56 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: we are expecting a change proposal from Everet tomorrow
16:52:13 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: hopefully there will not be much to tweak it up
16:52:21 [richardschwerdtfe]: Topic: Issue 22
16:52:23 [oedipus]: issue-22 lady of shallot change proposal: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/purely_decorative_images (reflects consensus at TPAC 2010 HTML WG F2F)
16:52:31 [richardschwerdtfe]: gregory: there is a change proposal on this
16:52:52 [richardschwerdtfe]: gregory: it says that purely decorative images should be treated with CSS
16:53:02 [JF]: bravo
16:53:09 [richardschwerdtfe]: gregory: .. and WCAG 2.0
16:53:53 [richardschwerdtfe]: gregory: we should have one single place how to treat a decorative image
16:54:07 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: more tweaking needed?
16:54:16 [Leonie_Watson]: +1
16:54:24 [oedipus]: plus 1 (if i do say so myself!)
16:54:51 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: I will ask on list regarding concensing on this
16:54:52 [JF]: +1 to moving it forward
16:54:58 [oedipus]: issue-31 first 2 paragraphs of the definition of img change proposal: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/first_2_paragraphs_of_definition_of_img (wording comes DIRECTLY from TPAC 2010 HTML WG discussions)
16:55:08 [richardschwerdtfe]: gregory: I had a task assigned me at TPAC
16:55:42 [richardschwerdtfe]: gregory: there was not a place to tie in so neatly
16:55:46 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/2010/11/11-html-a11y-minutes#item02
16:55:57 [richardschwerdtfe]: gregory: I had difficulty making a change proposal
16:56:07 [oedipus]: An img element represents an image.
16:56:08 [oedipus]: The image given by the src attribute is the embedded content, and the value of the alt attribute is the img element's fallback content.
16:56:43 [Laura]: Laura has joined #html-a11y
16:56:56 [richardschwerdtfe]: gregory: these two are ready to move forward as this is in concensus with what we agreed on
16:57:12 [paulc]: Thanks everyone. Leaving to get ready for the HTML WG Weekly meeting.
16:57:28 [JF]: q+
16:57:34 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: we are stalled on 31
16:58:09 [richardschwerdtfe]: John: I am watching the clock and we have 3 minutes left on the call
16:58:23 [richardschwerdtfe]: John: I want to talk about longdesc
16:58:49 [richardschwerdtfe]: John: is there any signal from PF as to when this will be approached?
16:58:59 [oedipus]: closed action-72 (Draft a change proposal to issue 31 to update the definition of img element (was HTML WG action 194)
16:59:07 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: We are coming back to it
16:59:19 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: there is activity
16:59:41 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: we have other priorities such as on fallback content
16:59:46 [oedipus]: all reasearch and proposals at: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs (includes laura's research)
17:00:05 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: we are coming back to it but due to other priorities not right away
17:00:12 [richardschwerdtfe]: john: when?
17:00:19 [richardschwerdtfe]: janina: can't say just now
17:00:30 [oedipus]: q+
17:00:40 [Zakim]: -Janina
17:00:44 [kliehm]: Currently there are 12 a11yTF bugs associated with ISSUE-31, at least 4 with ISSUE 30.
17:00:55 [richardschwerdtfe]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:00:55 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfe
17:02:01 [oedipus]: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs
17:02:13 [janina]: janina has left #html-a11y
17:02:29 [richardschwerdtfe]: gregory: I tried to make them attribute agnostic
17:02:37 [JF]: Request that the Task Force press the chairs for answrs t omy measurement questions
17:02:43 [Zakim]: -[Microsoft]
17:02:44 [JF]: how much is "enough"
17:02:49 [oedipus]: plus 1 to JF
17:02:57 [richardschwerdtfe]: RRSAgent, make log public
17:03:07 [richardschwerdtfe]: rrsagent, draft minutes
17:03:07 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfe
17:03:19 [Zakim]: -Michael_Cooper
17:03:21 [Zakim]: -Cynthia_Shelly
17:03:23 [Zakim]: -kliehm
17:03:25 [Zakim]: -Léonie_Watson
17:03:26 [Zakim]: -Eric_Carlson
17:03:33 [Zakim]: -Don_Evans
17:05:26 [oedipus]: zakim, please part
17:05:26 [Zakim]: leaving. As of this point the attendees were Janina, paulc, Eric_Carlson, Michael_Cooper, Gregory_Rosmaita, John_Foliot, +1.703.225.aaaa, Don_Evans, kliehm, Léonie_Watson,
17:05:26 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #html-a11y
17:05:29 [Zakim]: ... Cynthia_Shelly, richardschwerdtfe
17:06:03 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:07:06 [oedipus]: regrets+ Laura_Carlson, Sylvia_Pfieiffer,Kenny_Johar,Everett_Zufelt, Steve_Faulkner
17:07:08 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:07:48 [kliehm]: present- +1.703.225.aaaa
17:07:59 [kliehm]: rrsagent, make minutes
17:07:59 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
17:08:26 [oedipus]: i/janina: still not done./scribnick: richardschwerdtfe/
17:08:29 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:09:03 [richardschwerdtfe]: I posted the limits
17:09:14 [kliehm]: kliehm has joined #html-a11y
17:09:21 [oedipus]: i/RS: if i am AT would like to know using fallback/scribenick: oedipus/
17:09:24 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:09:32 [kliehm]: regrets+ Marco_Ranon
17:09:37 [kliehm]: rrsagent, make minutes
17:09:37 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
17:10:10 [oedipus]: i/michael: like IFrame, it needs an alt text alternative/scribenick: richardschwerdtfe/
17:10:12 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:11:14 [oedipus]: i/Martin: there are a lot of elements that have a lot of fallback mechanism/scribenick: richardschwerdtfe/
17:11:17 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:15:04 [RRSAgent]: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-actions.rdf :
17:15:04 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: cooper to do gap analysis between embedded content use cases and existing support [1]
17:15:04 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-html-a11y-irc#T16-51-21