15:00:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webfonts
15:00:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/01-webfonts-irc
15:00:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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15:00:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3668
15:00:29 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()10:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:30 <trackbot> Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
15:00:30 <trackbot> Date: 01 December 2010
15:01:00 <Zakim> IA_Fonts()10:00AM has now started
15:01:06 <Zakim> +Tal
15:01:50 <sylvaing> sylvaing has joined #webfonts
15:02:06 <Zakim> +ChrisL
15:02:30 <ChrisL> I started on a disposition of comments http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF/DoC/issues-lc-2010.html
15:02:31 <Zakim> +tal.a
15:02:32 <erik> erik has joined #webfonts
15:03:16 <Zakim> + +1.978.790.aaaa
15:03:39 <ChrisL> zakim, aaaa is Vlad
15:03:39 <Zakim> +Vlad; got it
15:04:19 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
15:04:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tal, ChrisL, tal.a, Vlad
15:04:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see erik, sylvaing, Zakim, RRSAgent, tal, ChrisL, trackbot
15:05:30 <tal> I had some phone trouble this morning, maybe zakim got confused by me calling in twice?
15:05:40 <erik> I'm not able to call in today. I'll follow on IRC.
15:05:57 <ChrisL> Vlad: having internet issues, will join shortly
15:07:26 <Zakim> -Vlad
15:07:48 <Zakim> +Vlad
15:09:11 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #webfonts
15:10:33 <ChrisL> Topic: epub update
15:10:43 <ChrisL> scribenick: chrisl
15:11:16 <ChrisL> Vlad: strong interest in woff support from many participants, but Adobe representative is against WOFF for epub
15:11:54 <ChrisL> ... if publishers want it, they will add it
15:12:50 <ChrisL> ... waiting for response from internal Adobe discussions. May be opposition was based on resource issues
15:13:13 <ChrisL> Topic: woff metadata comments
15:14:03 <tal> http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF/DoC/issues-lc-2010.html
15:16:04 <ChrisL> ChrisL: extensibility via namespaces is good for totally open extensibility
15:16:18 <ChrisL> tal: we dont want it totally open ended
15:17:05 <ChrisL> Vlad: want to not deviate too much from the original, and widely deployed, submission. This would be a breaking change
15:17:21 <ChrisL> ... and we do have an extensibility element
15:17:54 <ChrisL> tal: fontshop and others are using woff with metadata - making all of those invalid is a problem
15:19:23 <ChrisL> ChrisL: (explains last call process on getting a response back from commentor)
15:19:36 <ChrisL> Vlad: dont like a breaking change
15:19:53 <ChrisL> ... dont want to invalidate the usage of early adopters
15:21:26 <ChrisL> action: chris to respond to erik muller on namespaces in metadata
15:21:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-51 - Respond to erik muller on namespaces in metadata [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-12-08].
15:22:35 <ChrisL> action: chris to respond to erik muller on pronunciation and sorting
15:22:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-52 - Respond to erik muller on pronunciation and sorting [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-12-08].
15:23:59 <ChrisL> ChrisL: adding @url to license text elements is a good idea
15:24:54 <ChrisL> (generally seem to be in favour of separate urls for license elements)
15:25:13 <ChrisL> Vlad: additional metadata does not override the license
15:26:41 <ChrisL> Vlad; link can point to a page with multiple further links
15:27:46 <ChrisL> ChrisL: woff benefit is being explicit on license. prefer to have option for separate ones
15:27:59 <ChrisL> Vlad: will discuss with Monotype legal
15:28:37 <ChrisL> tal: nothing changes for existing users. it adds options
15:29:23 <ChrisL> ChrisL: important that this is not a breaking change
15:30:21 <ChrisL> Vlad: easier for distributors to use a single place provided by the font owner
15:31:36 <ChrisL> tal: mentioned that url at top of license, so should allow to have no text below. some foundries want just a link, no text.
15:32:06 <ChrisL> ChrisL: please send that as a separate comment
15:32:57 <ChrisL> Vlad: spec is clear that the text in a license element is about the license, not a copy of the license
15:33:54 <ChrisL> ... better to have some text, for users
15:35:09 <ChrisL> tal: made some fonts for a foundry and they said that they wanted just a url, no text
15:36:17 <ChrisL> ... spec currently says we need both
15:36:26 <ChrisL> ... should it be either/or
15:36:46 <ChrisL> ChrisL: seems more reasonable to me
15:37:20 <ChrisL> Topic: test plan issues
15:37:40 <ChrisL> tal: do we neeed null bytes. some things like that came up in the test plan, they are in red
15:38:28 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan-UserAgent
15:39:25 <ChrisL> tal: in the process of doing the test plan, multiple spec read-thoughs turned up some issues.
15:39:41 <ChrisL> ... some are clear, like the file has to be long enough to contain the header
15:40:08 <ChrisL> ... if the flavour is in contradiction with the actual table data. spec is silent on that.
15:40:42 <ChrisL> ChrisL: there are multiple flavours for truetype
15:41:16 <ChrisL> tal: thses have caused problems for text engines before
15:41:46 <ChrisL> Vlad: packaging mechanism is separate - if you package a broken thing, the package is not at fault
15:41:59 <ChrisL> tal: jdaggett said list them all, so i did
15:42:24 <ChrisL> Vlad: think that particular one is out of scope
15:43:11 <ChrisL> tal: its additional tests
15:43:37 <ChrisL> Vlad: may cross boundary between packaging and font sanitising
15:45:14 <ChrisL> ChrisL: these are good for a validator, but in spme cases its not the woff spec that is violated but the OT spec 
15:45:29 <ChrisL> tal: some t=of these are crashing bugs for certain OS
15:45:59 <ChrisL> tal: number of tables, needs to be parseable
15:46:29 <ChrisL> tal: some are tagged as format bit also need to be UA conformance as well
15:47:27 <ChrisL> ... read the wiki pages
15:48:22 <ChrisL> Vlad: anything here needs more discussion?
15:48:31 <ChrisL> tal: tried to be very clear
15:49:24 <ChrisL> Vlad: lets discuss on email and make resolutions next week on the red items
15:49:32 <ChrisL> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan-Format
15:49:53 <ChrisL> tal: have worked on infrastructure for tests
15:50:26 <ChrisL> ... have been reading the css testsuite documentation
15:51:04 <ChrisL> adjourned
15:51:11 <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
15:51:11 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Tal, ChrisL, +1.978.790.aaaa, Vlad
15:51:14 <ChrisL> chair: vlad
15:52:18 <ChrisL> (general appreciation for tal's work)
15:52:20 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
15:52:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/01-webfonts-minutes.html ChrisL
15:52:27 <Zakim> -Tal
15:52:28 <Zakim> -tal.a
15:52:28 <Zakim> -ChrisL
15:52:32 <tal> tal has left #webfonts
15:52:33 <Zakim> -Vlad
15:52:34 <Zakim> IA_Fonts()10:00AM has ended
15:52:36 <Zakim> Attendees were Tal, ChrisL, +1.978.790.aaaa, Vlad
18:00:26 <Zakim> Zakim has left #webfonts