IRC log of a11y-bugs on 2010-11-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:56:28 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #a11y-bugs
15:56:28 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-a11y-bugs-irc
15:57:26 [kliehm]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Bug-Triage
15:57:28 [kliehm]
Chair: Martin_Kliehm
15:57:30 [kliehm]
Regrets: Laura_Carlson, Marco_Ranon
15:57:32 [kliehm]
agenda+ Finde scribe
15:57:33 [kliehm]
agenda+ Accessible fallback mechanisms for embedded content
15:57:35 [kliehm]
agenda+ Sifting of NEW bugs
15:57:37 [kliehm]
agenda+ Assign homework for next week
15:58:15 [kliehm]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Nov/0229.html
15:58:41 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft logs', kliehm. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:58:56 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make logs', kliehm. Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:59:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-a11y-bugs-minutes.html kliehm
16:01:43 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML_TF)11:00AM has now started
16:01:49 [Zakim]
+kliehm
16:03:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-a11y-bugs-minutes.html kliehm
16:05:42 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper
16:10:09 [kliehm]
zakim, move to next agendum
16:10:09 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Finde scribe" taken up [from kliehm]
16:10:33 [kliehm]
zakim, move to next agendum
16:10:33 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, kliehm
16:10:44 [MichaelC]
zakim, close this item
16:10:44 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
16:10:45 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:10:47 [Zakim]
2. Accessible fallback mechanisms for embedded content [from kliehm]
16:11:05 [kliehm]
zakim, move to next agendum
16:11:05 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Accessible fallback mechanisms for embedded content" taken up [from kliehm]
16:29:21 [MichaelC]
Discussion of uses cases
16:29:25 [MichaelC]
considered the following:
16:29:27 [MichaelC]
Short text alternative can substitute for the object, sometimes on its own and sometimes complemented by an additional "long text alternative". Normally, short text alternatives aren't provided if direct accessibility is possible, but it may still be used if direct accessibility for whatever reason isn't enabled (e.g., canvas makes a simple image and there is no need to enable full shadow...
16:29:28 [MichaelC]
...DOM support).
16:29:30 [MichaelC]
Long text alternative can substitute for the object, fairly completely. Normally it complements a short text alternative but in the case of transcripts may stand on its own.
16:29:31 [MichaelC]
Label identifies the object and tells the user if they want to go into it more. This has both non-accessibility and accessibility use cases. Frequently confounded with short text alternatives, it's a distinct use case and optimally should have a different implementation. Generally, if a label is provided, a short text alternative would be redundant and is not separately required.
16:29:33 [MichaelC]
Summary is more than a short text alternative, but not the complete replacement that a long text alternative should be. Like a label, it may help a user decide whether to explore more, or may be a sufficient overview of the object in many cases.
16:29:37 [MichaelC]
Advisory / tooltip is a kind of text label that is usually displayed as a tooltip. Although frequently taken from short text alternatives or captions, this is not an accessibility use case. It is in the table to show that it is a distinct use case and should not be confounded with other accessibility fallbacks.
16:29:41 [MichaelC]
Idiosyncratic direct accessibility means the object content itself provides ways to make it accessible, e.g., caption formats in video, features of SVG, the shadow DOM of canvas, etc. Generally, if a format supports direct accessibility it may still benefit from a label, but should not require a short or long text alternative. However, some objects may not enable the direct accessibility and...
16:29:46 [MichaelC]
...still require external text alternatives, such as a short text alternative for a simple image implemented with canvas, or a transcript (i.e., long text alternative) for an audio. Note that for embed and object, this depends on features of the loaded content language, so these elements may or may not require separate fallbacks within the HTML.
16:29:50 [MichaelC]
Specify none needed is for formats that need to be able to indicate that they are "presentational" and no accessibility fallback is needed.
16:30:12 [MichaelC]
discussed which of these use cases apply to which types of embedded content
16:31:10 [MichaelC]
action: Michael to send his embedded content analysis to the task force list
16:32:28 [kliehm]
zakim, move to next agendum
16:32:28 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Sifting of NEW bugs" taken up [from kliehm]
16:33:03 [MichaelC]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10660
16:33:03 [kliehm]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10660
16:36:42 [Marco_Ranon]
Marco_Ranon has joined #a11y-bugs
16:48:48 [MichaelC]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11140
16:49:01 [MichaelC]
related to the above
16:51:24 [kliehm]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11999
16:52:10 [kliehm]
s/11999/11199/
16:56:35 [kliehm]
Bug triage sub-team thinks this is not a HTML A11Y TF priority. The primary
16:56:37 [kliehm]
accessibility need is to provide headings at all; providing them in an outline
16:56:38 [kliehm]
or clearly associated with landmarks is helpful but only if implemented
16:56:40 [kliehm]
consistently. Further, HTML 5 provides various ways to achieve this (though
16:56:42 [kliehm]
none of them are mandatory). There could be some value in looking more closely
16:56:44 [kliehm]
at section types aka landmarks in HTML.next, but don't think we should in the
16:56:45 [kliehm]
HTML 5 timeframe. Furthermore, the issue is more with user agent presentation
16:56:47 [kliehm]
existing heading features than with the HTML spec itself.
16:56:58 [kliehm]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11207
16:59:44 [kliehm]
Bug triage sub-team think this is a HTML A11Y TF priority, is already in active discussion with the media sub-group.
17:00:09 [kliehm]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11238
17:03:32 [kliehm]
Adding a11yTF keyword
17:03:34 [kliehm]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11242
17:07:32 [MichaelC]
Bug triage sub-team agrees this is an A11Y TF priority. However, it is clear this will come back as needsinfo in its current state. Assigning to Rich to address within the canvas sub-team and provide the needed info. Assign to Ian when complete.
17:07:35 [kliehm]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11279
17:09:44 [MichaelC]
Bug triage sub-team doesn't think this is a A11Y TF priority. It's not an HTML feature, just a spec clarity issue. Our understanding is there is a specific reason for the phrasing approach, and doesn't need task force involvement.
17:11:36 [kliehm]
zakim, move to next agendum
17:11:36 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Assign homework for next week" taken up [from kliehm]
17:12:09 [kliehm]
Homework for next week: shepherding Michael's post regarding embedded content to the list.
17:13:00 [Zakim]
-kliehm
17:13:01 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
17:13:03 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML_TF)11:00AM has ended
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Attendees were kliehm, Michael_Cooper
17:13:19 [kliehm]
regrets- Marco_Ranon
17:13:29 [kliehm]
present+ Marco_Ranon
17:13:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-a11y-bugs-minutes.html kliehm
17:14:03 [kliehm]
present+ Martin_Kliehm
17:14:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-a11y-bugs-minutes.html kliehm
17:14:31 [kliehm]
present- kliehm
17:14:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-a11y-bugs-minutes.html kliehm
17:14:51 [kliehm]
scribe: MichaelC
17:15:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-a11y-bugs-minutes.html kliehm
17:15:41 [kliehm]
scribe: Martin_Kliehm
17:15:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-a11y-bugs-minutes.html kliehm
17:17:55 [kliehm]
zakim, please part
17:17:55 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #a11y-bugs
17:18:03 [kliehm]
rrsagent, please part
17:18:03 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-a11y-bugs-actions.rdf :
17:18:03 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Michael to send his embedded content analysis to the task force list [1]
17:18:03 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-a11y-bugs-irc#T16-31-10