IRC log of fx on 2010-11-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

21:00:34 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #fx
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logging to
21:00:36 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
21:00:36 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #fx
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Zakim, this will be 3983
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ok, trackbot; I see GA_FXTF()4:00PM scheduled to start now
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Meeting: CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference
21:00:39 [trackbot]
Date: 22 November 2010
21:01:26 [Zakim]
GA_FXTF()4:00PM has now started
21:01:32 [heycam]
Zakim, code?
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the conference code is 3983 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.203.318.0479), heycam
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+ +1.650.253.aaaa
21:01:41 [TabAtkins]
zakim, aaaa is me.
21:01:41 [Zakim]
+TabAtkins; got it
21:01:43 [Zakim]
21:01:46 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P1 is me
21:01:46 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
21:02:20 [Zakim]
21:02:35 [ed]
Zakim, [IP is me
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+ed; got it
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21:03:16 [ed]
21:03:27 [ChrisL]
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21:04:15 [ed]
Zakim, who's here?
21:04:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TabAtkins, heycam, ed, Shepazu
21:04:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ChrisL, Zakim, RRSAgent, CSSWG_LogBot, f1lt3r, shepazu, heycam, plinss_, plinss, TabAtkins, ed, trackbot
21:04:58 [Zakim]
21:05:11 [ed]
regrets: simon
21:06:08 [ChrisL]
scribenick: ChrisL
21:06:44 [ChrisL]
21:06:58 [ChrisL]
topic: public-fx-editors
21:07:07 [ChrisL]
ed: logs cvs changes
21:07:49 [ed]
21:07:51 [ChrisL]
... for entire fx taskforce area on
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chair: Erik
21:08:57 [ChrisL]
cm: am i on?
21:09:02 [ChrisL]
cl: will chec
21:09:38 [ChrisL]
... no you weren't
21:09:49 [ChrisL]
topic: task force specs
21:10:09 [ChrisL]
ed: see agenda, only 2d transforms is committed so far and the editors anre not here
21:10:22 [anthony]
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21:10:44 [ChrisL]
ed: sounds like 2d transforms is ready to publish
21:12:17 [ed]
21:12:17 [ChrisL]
ed: charter mentions other specs too
21:12:51 [Zakim]
21:13:04 [ChrisL]
cm: what is the status?
21:13:14 [anthony]
Zakim, [IP is me
21:13:14 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
21:13:57 [ChrisL]
ds: at tpac it was clarified that css wg, being larger and with only a subset of members on the tf, publication decisions need separate ratification
21:14:22 [ChrisL]
cl:anything which is in scope for both charters can be worked on by agreement
21:14:39 [ChrisL]
ds: svg has most members on the tf so does not need separate ratification
21:15:18 [ChrisL]
ed: anthony, what is the expected date for publication on 2d?
21:15:40 [ChrisL]
ag: some changes needed before publication, and simon has an action about api comparisons
21:16:22 [ChrisL]
... and a way to get back the trasform value, which is not a matrix
21:16:39 [ChrisL]
... glazou wanted a human readable transform list
21:17:13 [ChrisL]
ag: or we could publish as is and add more stuff later
21:17:21 [ChrisL]
ed: is it ok to publish now
21:17:40 [ChrisL]
ag: needs an intro and some red bits removed, before fpwd
21:17:52 [ChrisL]
... minor edits then publish
21:18:42 [ChrisL]
ag: css wg was keen to move forward. just needs some cleanup here and there
21:19:28 [ChrisL]
cl: suggest making the edits first then making a publication decision
21:19:54 [ChrisL]
ag: estimate two weeks for edits, another week for examples so 3 weeks
21:20:13 [ChrisL]
ed: so around 6 december
21:20:29 [ChrisL]
ed: (adds as due date to wiki)
21:20:54 [ChrisL]
21:21:22 [ChrisL]
ed: this would be fpwd
21:23:06 [ChrisL]
ed: filters module is closer to publication. will move over to fx space then incoproprate roc proposal
21:23:25 [ChrisL]
... some work already to allow that to be used in css/html but needs more definition
21:23:39 [ChrisL]
cl: due date?
21:24:23 [ChrisL]
ed: aim for an editors draft around 20 december
21:26:03 [ChrisL]
ed: for the other specs I think we are waiting for dean to propose the animation model, maybe someone from microsoft also had an action
21:26:24 [ChrisL]
cm: on the list, moz request animation frame was brought up
21:26:32 [ChrisL]
... seems a reasonable fit for webapps
21:26:43 [ChrisL]
ds: appropriate for this group as well
21:26:46 [ChrisL]
cm: hmmm
21:27:03 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is here?
21:27:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see TabAtkins, heycam, ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, anthony
21:27:05 [Zakim]
On IRC I see anthony, ChrisL, Zakim, RRSAgent, CSSWG_LogBot, f1lt3r, shepazu, heycam, plinss_, plinss, TabAtkins, ed, trackbot
21:27:24 [ChrisL]
ds (link to webapps discussion)
21:27:38 [ChrisL]
tab: point is to sync with animation
21:27:44 [shepazu]
21:28:31 [ChrisL]
cm: not just to syn with declarative animation, also to allow purely user written animations to not hog the cpu
21:28:40 [ChrisL]
ds: yes it hooks into refresh rates
21:28:50 [ChrisL]
... its all about animation
21:29:12 [ChrisL]
... need to have a suitable api to make that work
21:29:22 [ChrisL]
cm: no preference where it goes
21:29:42 [ChrisL]
ds: good to have discussion in multiple places to get more feedback
21:30:00 [ChrisL]
... in terms of charters its in scope of svg wg charter
21:30:07 [ChrisL]
... but not webapps
21:30:23 [ChrisL]
... css has animation in scope as well, not explicitly scripting though
21:31:12 [ChrisL]
ds: can alert that list to this discussion
21:31:22 [ChrisL]
ed: looking forward to seeing the proposals
21:31:46 [ChrisL]
cm: mentioned to dino interested in helping out with unified animation model. he plans to add a wiki page
21:32:11 [ChrisL]
topic: Maintenance / progress
21:32:31 [ChrisL]
ed: looking through tracker, we have three open issues with no actions
21:32:44 [ChrisL]
21:32:44 [trackbot]
ISSUE-1 -- Consider not adding transformRef to Transforms spec -- raised
21:32:44 [trackbot]
21:33:10 [ChrisL]
ed: no actions for this
21:33:26 [ChrisL]
ag: not on my list. did we discuss at tpac?
21:33:44 [ChrisL]
ed: definitely an issue, is it important or can we live without?
21:33:53 [ChrisL]
... need sa note in the spec that its an issue
21:34:18 [ChrisL]
action: anthony to add a note to 2d transforms with issue on transformRef
21:34:18 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-22 - Add a note to 2d transforms with issue on transformRef [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-11-29].
21:34:47 [ChrisL]
21:34:47 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2 -- Need to figure out how transitions affect a transform on an element that has an animation running on it -- raised
21:34:47 [trackbot]
21:35:24 [ChrisL]
simon says "I don't understand this Issue."
21:36:11 [ChrisL]
tab: who raised it?
21:36:13 [ChrisL]
ed: raised in telcon
21:36:23 [ChrisL]
ag: its a transitions issue
21:36:57 [ChrisL]
... dbaron said there wwere some bugs with transitions affecting transforms, so the transitions chapter was removed from the fx 2d spec
21:37:06 [ChrisL]
ed: so the issue could be closed then?
21:37:28 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: better to close and re-open a more specific issue that is better documented
21:37:57 [TabAtkins]
ScribeNick: TabAtkins
21:38:27 [TabAtkins]
ag: A metapoint - I saw Siomon's notes on this issue, and Patrick put some notes on other actions/issues, and I wonder if that's not a good use of Tracker, because it doesn't send out emails.
21:38:40 [TabAtkins]
ag: Perhaps it should be the other way around - send emails to the list and have tracker pick them up automatically.
21:38:49 [TabAtkins]
ChrisL: Agreed.
21:40:08 [TabAtkins]
ed: Last open issue is #3, about writing mode values across CSS and SVG.
21:40:15 [ed]
21:40:15 [trackbot]
ISSUE-3 -- writing-mode values across CSS and SVG -- raised
21:40:15 [trackbot]
21:40:46 [heycam]
s/ag: A meta/cm: A meta/
21:40:51 [heycam]
s/ag: Perh/cm: Perh/
21:41:54 [TabAtkins]
ag: I'm not sure what this issue is about really.
21:42:05 [TabAtkins]
TabAtkins: It's just a harmonization issue between the two versions of writing-mode.
21:42:42 [ChrisL]
scribenick: chrisl
21:42:43 [TabAtkins]
ag: SVG picked a bunch of writing modes a while back, and fantasai was trying to pick something out that made more sense.
21:43:21 [ChrisL]
ed: to agree on the set of values, not much problem for svg side
21:43:42 [ChrisL]
cm: seen one of the rtl in inkscape output. or was it the ttb one
21:43:50 [ChrisL]
... not much content that iuses it
21:44:12 [ChrisL]
ed: ok to drop some if that is what we decide
21:44:51 [ChrisL]
ed: can we assign an action to this, and if so what?
21:46:18 [ChrisL]
cl: original problem description is clear, so its just a case of doing it
21:46:27 [ChrisL]
ds: will raise an issue on svg2
21:46:39 [ChrisL]
... while grumbling
21:47:22 [ChrisL]
ed: pity traker has no move or duplicate functionality
21:47:30 [ChrisL]
21:47:55 [shepazu]
21:48:32 [ChrisL]
topic: CSS3-UI pointer-events
21:48:45 [ed]
21:49:14 [ChrisL]
topic: Publishing resolutions and WG communication
21:49:35 [ChrisL]
ed: we need to be careful to minute resolutions and to ensure the parent groups are well informed
21:50:03 [ChrisL]
cm: tantek dod not seem to see the tf work as on scope
21:50:25 [ChrisL]
tab: the css wg is large enough thatcss wg is not on the radar or everyone
21:50:55 [ChrisL]
ds: disappointed we don't have adobe here
21:51:57 [ChrisL]
tab: szilles is not directly involved with css implementation. was talking with some authoring-related adobe employees. will prod them to join
21:52:27 [ChrisL]
21:52:50 [shepazu]
s/thatcss wg is not on the radar or everyone/that css wg is not on the radar for everyone/
21:53:07 [ChrisL]
ed: should ee communicate the milestone dates now, or when edits are done
21:53:16 [ChrisL]
cm: does tf stuff get discussed?
21:53:26 [ChrisL]
tab: only 2.1 stuff at the moment.
21:53:48 [ChrisL]
cm: worried that there is not enough communication
21:54:38 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: agree, but its 100% on css 2.1 at the moment
21:55:31 [ChrisL]
topic: CSS3-UI pointer-events
21:55:46 [ChrisL]
ed: some discussion and a few issues raised
21:56:06 [ChrisL]
... and kevinr asked some questions too
21:57:01 [ChrisL]
... should css3 spec be what svg references in the future, or would it diverge?
21:57:35 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: copy pasting from svg 1.1 into css3 ui is a bad idea, it should normatively reference for svg-specific details
21:57:59 [ChrisL]
ed: there are issues raised,
21:58:16 [ed]
21:59:23 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: seems tantek accepts on issue 6, and is just waiting for a reference to use
21:59:26 [ChrisL]
ed: ok
21:59:48 [ChrisL]
action: erik to send normative links for fill and stroke
21:59:48 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-23 - Send normative links for fill and stroke [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-11-29].
22:00:34 [ChrisL]
ed: can we resolve this?
22:01:03 [ChrisL]
resolved: css3 ui should reference svg spec for svg specifics, uris will be provided
22:02:44 [Zakim]
22:02:47 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate ChrisL
22:03:56 [ChrisL]
zakim, list attendees
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As of this point the attendees have been +1.650.253.aaaa, TabAtkins, heycam, [IPcaller], ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, anthony
22:04:12 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make minutes
22:04:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ChrisL
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GA_FXTF()4:00PM has ended
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Attendees were +1.650.253.aaaa, TabAtkins, heycam, [IPcaller], ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, anthony
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