IRC log of svg on 2010-11-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:59:40 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #svg
19:59:40 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc
19:59:42 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
19:59:42 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #svg
19:59:44 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:59:44 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
19:59:45 [trackbot]: Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:59:45 [trackbot]: Date: 18 November 2010
20:00:40 [Zakim]: GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM has now started
20:00:47 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
20:01:01 [ed]: Zakim, [IP is me
20:01:01 [Zakim]: +ed; got it
20:04:47 [tbah]: tbah has joined #svg
20:05:14 [anthony]: anthony has joined #svg
20:06:36 [Zakim]: +??P2
20:06:57 [anthony]: Zakim, ??P2 is me
20:06:57 [Zakim]: +anthony; got it
20:07:15 [ed]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0150.html
20:08:02 [tbah]: Pass code?
20:08:06 [ed]: Regrets: PD, CM
20:08:56 [tbah]: Hmm, that didn't work. I'll try again.
20:10:07 [Zakim]: + +33.9.53.77.aaaa
20:10:57 [ed]: Zakim, +33 is tav
20:10:57 [Zakim]: +tav; got it
20:17:13 [anthony]: Scribe: Anthony
20:17:23 [anthony]: ScribeNick: anthony
20:17:33 [anthony]: Chair: Erik
20:18:00 [anthony]: Topic: SVG 1.1 Issues and Actions
20:18:04 [ed]: ISSUE-2332?
20:18:05 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2332 -- Last Call Comment: regarding Text layout -- open
20:18:05 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2332
20:18:16 [anthony]: ED: Regarding text layout
20:18:32 [anthony]: ... raised by Alex in regard to later version of the spec
20:18:45 [anthony]: ... Tav you investigated the issue
20:18:57 [anthony]: TB: Yes, did I make some suggestions?
20:19:00 [ChrisL]: ChrisL has joined #svg
20:19:14 [anthony]: ED: Yes you did. Problem is Alex thought they would raise other issues
20:19:34 [anthony]: ... so he felt that it was best left for SVG 2 then
20:19:56 [anthony]: ... My concern is getting SVG F1.1 finished
20:19:57 [Zakim]: +ChrisL
20:20:09 [anthony]: ... so I don't mind moving it to SVG 2
20:20:15 [anthony]: ... any objections?
20:20:27 [anthony]: AG: None heard
20:20:39 [ChrisL]: issue-2332?
20:20:39 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2332 -- Last Call Comment: regarding Text layout -- open
20:20:39 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2332
20:22:04 [anthony]: RESOLUTION: We will move this issue to SVG 2
20:23:39 [anthony]: ISSUE-2335?
20:23:39 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2335 -- Last Call Comment: Clarify feConvolveMatrix bias property -- raised
20:23:39 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2335
20:24:00 [anthony]: AG: Just want to try out the formula for option 2 and compare it with the results in the specification
20:24:20 [anthony]: ED: Will require some test to be written
20:24:33 [anthony]: ISSUE-2346?
20:24:33 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2346 -- Last Call Comment: previous discussion about filterRes -- raised
20:24:33 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2346
20:24:44 [anthony]: ED: No action assigned to it
20:25:43 [anthony]: ... does Inkscape handle filterRes?
20:25:51 [anthony]: TB: No
20:26:05 [anthony]: ED: Opera does, but my guess is it is not very clearly defined what it means
20:26:23 [anthony]: ACTION: Erik to Investigate ISSUE-2346
20:26:23 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2908 - Investigate ISSUE-2346 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-11-25].
20:27:14 [anthony]: ISSUE-2351?
20:27:14 [trackbot]: ISSUE-2351 -- Last Call Comment: Clarify that units are required on <length>s in style attribute; fix examples in text. -- raised
20:27:14 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2351
20:27:38 [anthony]: ED: Can we mark this as resolved or is there anymore actions to be done?
20:27:49 [anthony]: TB: I recommended text changes for this one
20:27:59 [anthony]: CL: I thought we had made some changes
20:28:32 [anthony]: ...we clarified the style sheets, for example you could omit the unit
20:28:51 [anthony]: ... I think people are confused is because they are looking at style attributes
20:29:00 [anthony]: ED: There is nothing linked to the issue
20:29:09 [anthony]: ... just wondering if that edit was made and not updated
20:29:15 [anthony]: TB: I suggested some changes in July
20:29:37 [tbah]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0042.html
20:29:39 [anthony]: ... with some example changes
20:29:42 [anthony]: CL: It would surprise me if those examples are wrong
20:30:09 [ChrisL]: s/would/wouldn't/
20:30:29 [anthony]: TB: It wasn't the SVG file that was a problem
20:30:31 [anthony]: ... it was the text
20:31:34 [anthony]: ... in Section 7.10
20:32:14 [ed]: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/coords.html
20:32:17 [ed]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0043.html
20:32:22 [anthony]: CL: I'm editing this one in place
20:32:28 [ChrisL]: <text font-size="50">Text size is 50 user units</text>
20:32:31 [anthony]: ED: Pointed out some minor issues
20:32:41 [anthony]: CL: I've changed it to use the font-size property
20:32:59 [anthony]: ... I changed it to be a presentation attribute
20:33:05 [anthony]: TB: That's what I suggested it to be
20:33:15 [anthony]: ... Aside from that, I did suggest some other changes
20:33:20 [anthony]: ... to the text
20:34:09 [anthony]: ED: Chris are you doing those edits as well?
20:34:17 [anthony]: CL: Just trying to see where the edits are
20:34:23 [anthony]: ... there are really 3 cases and not 2
20:35:01 [ChrisL]: For properties defined in CSS2 [CSS2], an angle unit identifier must be provided. For angle values in SVG-specific properties and their corresponding presentation attributes, the angle unit identifier is optional.
20:35:29 [anthony]: CL: That what is says currently
20:35:46 [anthony]: TB: The problem is to get to that place
20:35:52 [anthony]: ... you have to go through a bunch of steps
20:35:57 [anthony]: ... which is very confusing
20:36:24 [anthony]: ... the suggested text changes I had were to clarify that
20:36:39 [anthony]: CL: Ok I see
20:37:56 [anthony]: TB: I'd be happy to edit the spec, but I don't have CVS access
20:39:06 [ChrisL]: I will fix that
20:41:49 [anthony]: ACTION: Tav to Make suggested edits to the specification that address ISSUE-2351
20:41:50 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2909 - Make suggested edits to the specification that address ISSUE-2351 [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2010-11-25].
20:42:28 [anthony]: ED: Any more actions
20:42:28 [tbah]: tbah has joined #svg
20:43:24 [anthony]: CL: Yes there a few things that Helder metioned
20:43:29 [anthony]: ... I've started addressing those
20:43:48 [anthony]: ... In some cases he's made suggestions for the changes
20:43:56 [anthony]: ... and we can use what he's suggested
20:45:39 [anthony]: ACTION: Chris to Cleanup changes appendix for SVG Full 1.1 2nd Edition
20:45:40 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2910 - Cleanup changes appendix for SVG Full 1.1 2nd Edition [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-11-25].
20:46:00 [anthony]: CL: Also given an action to port some stuff over from SVG TIny 1.2
20:46:09 [anthony]: ... on intrinsic dimensions
20:46:23 [anthony]: ... had to port across some definitions as well
20:46:32 [anthony]: ... which the new text referenced
20:46:42 [anthony]: ... I've closed the action off just before the call
20:46:50 [anthony]: ED: Was there a last call issue?
20:47:20 [anthony]: CL: No, the CSS working group were looking at it and David Baron thought there was good text in SVG 1.2 Tiny
20:48:54 [ed]: ACTION-2815?
20:48:54 [trackbot]: ACTION-2815 -- Patrick Dengler to draft a complete response to ISSUE-2338 and research the answers to the questions asked -- due 2010-07-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
20:48:54 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2815
20:48:58 [anthony]: ED: I saw Patrick has almost completed ACTION-2815
20:49:44 [ChrisL]: that was ACTION-2896: Copy the Intrinsic sizing wording in Tiny 1.2 to Full 1.1 2nd Edition by the way
20:49:45 [anthony]: ... I think the answer looks mostly complete
20:50:01 [anthony]: ... one minor thing that wasn't quite clear
20:50:23 [anthony]: ... Tav can you try to clear that up?
20:50:27 [anthony]: TB: Ok
20:52:30 [anthony]: ACTION: Tav to Finish the response to Dr Olaf regarding ISSUE-2815 and fix the issues highlighted by Dr Olaf
20:52:30 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2911 - Finish the response to Dr Olaf regarding ISSUE-2815 and fix the issues highlighted by Dr Olaf [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2010-11-25].
20:53:30 [anthony]: ED: Was actually ISSUE-2338
20:54:20 [anthony]: ED: Ok I have a few issues
20:54:23 [ed]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0158.html
20:54:40 [anthony]: ... the first one was clarify paced animations
20:54:57 [anthony]: ... it will just be porting wording from the Tiny 1.2 specification
20:55:02 [anthony]: CL: Ok looks good
20:55:05 [ed]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0155.html
20:55:12 [anthony]: ED: The other one is defining clip-path
20:55:16 [anthony]: ... quite minor edit
20:55:36 [anthony]: ... saying again if you put a clip-path property on a clip-path element then there is no effect
20:55:38 [anthony]: CL: Ok
20:56:00 [anthony]: s/no effect/an effect/
20:56:58 [anthony]: ACTION: Erik to clarify paced animations in SVG Full 1.1 by adding wording from SVG Tiny 1.2
20:56:58 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2912 - Clarify paced animations in SVG Full 1.1 by adding wording from SVG Tiny 1.2 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-11-25].
20:57:34 [anthony]: ACTION: Erik to Clarify that the clip-path property has an effect on the clipPath element
20:57:34 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2913 - Clarify that the clip-path property has an effect on the clipPath element [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-11-25].
20:58:08 [anthony]: Topic: Test Suite
20:58:36 [anthony]: ED: One of the first things is to clear up the confusion on the WOFF thing
20:59:02 [anthony]: CL: I think there is some confusion that Microsoft wanted to make WOFF mandatory
20:59:16 [anthony]: ... The idea is to add WOFF as a fall back
20:59:38 [anthony]: ... I'm part way through that
20:59:53 [anthony]: ... What I did find though it helped with I.E. 9
20:59:59 [anthony]: ... but It didn't work with Firefox
21:00:15 [anthony]: ... WOFF is required to read from the same origin
21:00:50 [anthony]: ... so in a local file system having /../ is not allowed
21:01:36 [anthony]: ... which means we will need to put the font in a sub directory in the test suite files directory with the WOFF files
21:01:44 [anthony]: ... will this break any of the scripts?
21:01:56 [anthony]: AG: Should be ok, as long as it is the last thing that gets done
21:02:15 [anthony]: ED: We also use a packaging script to package all the directories up into a single archive
21:04:58 [anthony]: RESOLUTION: For tests that use SVG fonts as part of the test we will add WOFF fall back fonts in addition to the SVG fonts
21:06:27 [ed]: styling-css-06-b.svg
21:06:44 [anthony]: ED: I don't think the test should be dropped
21:06:53 [anthony]: ... if anything we should have more tests for active and focus
21:06:59 [anthony]: ... as this test is limited
21:07:09 [anthony]: CL: Well we didn't originally have a test for it at all
21:07:34 [anthony]: ED: I haven't tested this in Safari or Chrome
21:07:54 [anthony]: CL: It passes in Opera
21:08:32 [anthony]: ED: Ok so Safari doesn't seem to do the stroking it does do the underline
21:08:38 [anthony]: ... not sure why that is
21:08:45 [anthony]: ... might be because it's been selected
21:09:09 [anthony]: ... apart from that, I think Safari is passing everything except that point with the particular stroke
21:09:23 [anthony]: ... not sure what the cause is
21:09:46 [anthony]: ... seems to be doing the same style rule and they should both apply at the same time
21:10:13 [anthony]: CL: I don't see anything wrong with the test
21:10:21 [anthony]: ... and I see specific wording in the SVG spec
21:10:35 [anthony]: ED: It's close to being passed by more than one implementation
21:11:22 [anthony]: ... I mean it is applying the correct style rule
21:11:40 [anthony]: CL: I'm sort of tempted to leave it because it encourages them to fix their bug
21:16:36 [ChrisL]: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/text.html#TextSelection
21:18:41 [anthony]: CL: found the wording
21:18:48 [anthony]: ... section 6.7
21:19:18 [anthony]: ... in the old version
21:19:26 [ChrisL]: CSS2's dynamic pseudo-classes :hover, :active and :focus and pseudo-classes :first-child, :visited, :link and :lang ([CSS2], section 5.11). The remaining CSS2 pseudo-classes, including those having to do with generated content ([CSS2], chapter 12), are not part of the SVG language definition. (Note: an SVG element gains focus when it is selected. See Text selection.)
21:19:44 [ChrisL]: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/styling.html#StylingWithCSS
21:21:05 [anthony]: AG: Just wondering if we should change the wording
21:24:37 [anthony]: ACTION: Chris to Remove the "Note:" in section 6.7 in the specification regarding style events on text
21:24:37 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2914 - Remove the "Note:" in section 6.7 in the specification regarding style events on text [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-11-25].
21:24:40 [ed]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0072.html
21:25:12 [anthony]: Topic: Opacity on mask elements
21:25:28 [anthony]: ED: Email is about whether opacity and mask elements have some sort of effect
21:25:47 [anthony]: ... I think that most implementations apply an opacity on a mask element
21:26:02 [anthony]: ... the test on the email show that Firefox, Opera and Safari
21:26:06 [anthony]: ... render the square red
21:26:19 [anthony]: ... meaning there is no effect from the opacity
21:26:27 [anthony]: ... I think Patrik was asking this to be clarified
21:26:41 [anthony]: ... first of all is that the behaviour that we want
21:27:42 [anthony]: TB: Inkscape is doing the same thing as firefox
21:27:54 [anthony]: ... one red square, two green
21:29:14 [anthony]: AG: when you mask something you're clipping it
21:29:16 [anthony]: ED: Yes
21:29:32 [anthony]: AG: So doesn't really make sense to have an opacity on a mask
21:29:54 [anthony]: ED: I think adding some wording to say that opacity doesn't apply to mask elements is a good clarification to make
21:30:03 [anthony]: AG: Where would you add that?
21:30:36 [anthony]: ED: The mask property lists that it applies to container elements
21:30:46 [anthony]: ... and that it is a container element
21:31:53 [ed]: 'mask' property -> Applies to: graphics elements and container elements (except for the <mask> element)
21:32:25 [anthony]: ED: The other thing to do would be remove mask elements from container elements
21:32:37 [anthony]: s/other/alternative/
21:33:00 [anthony]: ED: Another possible change would be list all the general elements, but that wouldn't be very pretty
21:33:29 [anthony]: CL: Could even add a sentence to say that if the mask element is directly rendered the opacity has no effect
21:34:31 [anthony]: s/element is directly/element is not directly/
21:34:45 [anthony]: CL: Might be worth explaining in the specification why that is
21:35:06 [ed]: s/'mask' property/'opacity' property/
21:35:25 [anthony]: ACTION: Erik to Clarify that opacity does no apply to mask
21:35:25 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-2915 - Clarify that opacity does no apply to mask [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-11-25].
21:36:16 [Zakim]: -ed
21:36:18 [Zakim]: -anthony
21:36:23 [Zakim]: -tav
21:36:24 [Zakim]: -ChrisL
21:36:26 [Zakim]: GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM has ended
21:36:28 [Zakim]: Attendees were [IPcaller], ed, anthony, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, tav, ChrisL
21:36:41 [anthony]: trackbot, end telcon
21:36:41 [trackbot]: Zakim, list attendees
21:36:41 [Zakim]: sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
21:36:42 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:36:42 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html trackbot
21:36:43 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, bye
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-actions.rdf :
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Erik to Investigate ISSUE-2346 [1]
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T20-26-23
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Tav to Make suggested edits to the specification that address ISSUE-2351 [2]
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T20-41-49
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Chris to Cleanup changes appendix for SVG Full 1.1 2nd Edition [3]
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T20-45-39
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Tav to Finish the response to Dr Olaf regarding ISSUE-2815 and fix the issues highlighted by Dr Olaf [4]
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T20-52-30
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Erik to clarify paced animations in SVG Full 1.1 by adding wording from SVG Tiny 1.2 [5]
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T20-56-58
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Erik to Clarify that the clip-path property has an effect on the clipPath element [6]
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T20-57-34
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Chris to Remove the "Note:" in section 6.7 in the specification regarding style events on text [7]
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T21-24-37
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: Erik to Clarify that opacity does no apply to mask [8]
21:36:43 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T21-35-25