Accessible fallback mechanisms for embedded content

<MichaelC> Question of how to proceed

<MichaelC> think we should send analysis of issues and get discussion

<MichaelC> think we should file bugs ourselves when some form of consensus is clear

<MichaelC> I found some high-level issues in my review

<MichaelC> there are 3 types of fallbacks: 1) non-support of the HTML element; 2) non-support of the loaded content technology; 3) accessibility

<MichaelC> these are confounded and in practice if the browser supports the content technology it doesn't make the accessibility fallback available

<MichaelC> use of attribute for fallback (e.g., @alt) means it can't be internationalized, contain rich content

<Marco_Ranon> http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/more-accessible-html5-video-player/

<MichaelC> <img> in HTML 4 had no ability to mark "this element needs no fallback", leading to heuristic uses of @alt which have interoperability problems but are deeply philosophically entrenched

<MichaelC> @title and @name have been used for accessibility fallbacks, but they have unspecified behavior in this scenario

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to talk about mixed fallback and other content

<MichaelC> I am also concerned that content models mix fallback elements with <param>, <track>, etc. that are relevant to the parent element

<MichaelC> prefer an explicit element, e.g., <fallback>, to contain the fallback content

<kliehm> Images and MathML have @alt and @alttext on the container element providing some kind of title or summary. Elements such as video, audio, SVG, source, and map has some kind of @alt on a child element, but nothing that serves as a title or summary.

<MichaelC> there is need to "label" elements e.g., <iframe> so user can decide whether to go into it

<MichaelC> the <video/@poster> plays a similar function, so perhaps there is a need for a "labelling alt" for that image, in addition to more complete fallback for the video itself

<kliehm> MR: The title has been used in the past on iframe and object for an accessible fallback.

<MichaelC> @title is used but narrows purpose of a general element

<MichaelC> Use cases: short text alternative, long text alternative, label, summary

<MichaelC> full accessible fallback

<MichaelC> advisory / tooltip

<MichaelC> MK: what about when embedded elements are nested in each other?

<MichaelC> could be either each element handles its own, or the outermost element takes care of it and the nested ones explicitly don't require

<MichaelC> ACTION: Michael to complete use cases table and email to bug triage sub-team [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/16-a11y-bugs-minutes.html#action01]

Assign homework for next week

<kliehm> Marco to address bugs 10660, 10967

<kliehm> Michael to address bugs 11199, 11207, 11238

<kliehm> Joshue to address 11239, 11240, 11241

<kliehm> Martin to address 11242, 11279

<kliehm> ACTION: Martin will browse through bugs tagged with a11yTF and ping people or escalate them to the TF. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/16-a11y-bugs-minutes.html#action02]

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<kliehm> scribe: kliehm

<scribe> ScribeNick: Martin Kliehm

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Scribes: MichaelC, kliehm
ScribeNicks: Michael_Cooper, kliehm, Martin Kliehm
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Present: Marco_Ranon Martin_Kliehm Michael_Cooper
Regrets: Laura_Carlson Joshue_O_Connor
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Nov/0203.html
Got date from IRC log name: 16 Nov 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/11/16-a11y-bugs-minutes.html
People with action items: a11ytf browse bugs escalate martin michael or people ping tagged them through will with