IRC log of webfonts on 2010-11-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:55:43 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-irc
20:55:45 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
20:55:45 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be 3668
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ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()4:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
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Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
20:55:48 [trackbot]
Date: 10 November 2010
20:55:55 [ChrisL]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010Nov/0017.html
20:56:00 [ChrisL]
Chair: Vlad
20:56:45 [Zakim]
IA_Fonts()4:00PM has now started
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+ +1.781.970.aaaa
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+ChrisL
20:58:14 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is here?
20:58:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.781.970.aaaa, ChrisL
20:58:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, ChrisL, Vlad, trackbot
20:58:41 [Vlad]
zakim, +1.781.970.aaaa is Vlad
20:58:41 [Zakim]
+Vlad; got it
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20:59:16 [jdaggett]
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21:00:01 [tal]
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21:00:29 [Zakim]
+ +44.845.397.aabb
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+ +1.443.895.aacc
21:01:23 [ChrisL]
scribe: ChrisL
21:01:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.213.aadd
21:01:37 [jfkthame]
zakim, aabb is jfkthame
21:01:37 [Zakim]
+jfkthame; got it
21:01:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.536.aaee
21:01:57 [ChrisL]
zakim, aaee is cslye
21:01:57 [Zakim]
+cslye; got it
21:02:12 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is here?
21:02:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Vlad, ChrisL, jfkthame, +1.443.895.aacc, +1.425.213.aadd, cslye
21:02:15 [Zakim]
On IRC I see tal, jfkthame, jdaggett, erik, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, Vlad, trackbot
21:02:25 [Zakim]
+ +31.70.360.aaff
21:02:35 [cslye]
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21:02:39 [ChrisL]
zakim, aaff is Erik
21:02:39 [Zakim]
+Erik; got it
21:02:44 [tal]
zakim, aacc is tal
21:02:44 [Zakim]
+tal; got it
21:03:06 [cslye]
"Working Online For Fun"?
21:03:56 [jdaggett]
kinda catchy no?
21:04:24 [erik]
Isn't that supposed to read "Working Online For Free" ?
21:05:00 [ChrisL]
Topic: Recent comments
21:05:13 [ChrisL]
Vlad: some good discussion online recently
21:05:42 [ChrisL]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010Nov/0013.html
21:06:18 [ChrisL]
Vlad: publication date is Nov 16, seems ok, ends before holiday season
21:06:38 [ChrisL]
Vlad: any problem withthat date?
21:06:43 [ChrisL]
(none heard)
21:07:35 [cslye]
Yes, thanks Chris for all your scribing.
21:07:37 [ChrisL]
regrets: dave crossland, john hudson
21:08:26 [ChrisL]
Vlad: comments from Tal on metadata http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010Nov/0009.html
21:09:39 [ChrisL]
Vlad: comments from David Singer http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010Nov/0013.html
21:10:26 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: makes sense to pad aftyer last table if something follows
21:10:59 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: think the code for sfnt2woff leaves meta and private unpadded, but padds all font tables
21:11:16 [ChrisL]
... need to check code to be sure
21:11:49 [ChrisL]
Vlad: failing on lack of padding at end is not needed
21:12:02 [ChrisL]
... for the last data block
21:12:31 [ChrisL]
tal: advantage is that ist clear, OT is ambiguous and this led to problems
21:13:05 [ChrisL]
... validator requires padding
21:13:20 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: also for uncompressed tables, can be used directly
21:14:11 [ChrisL]
Vlad: need to review text, currently its unclear or contradictory
21:14:48 [ChrisL]
erik: don't weant to break existing fonts
21:15:04 [erik]
(that was tal)
21:15:08 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: tool leaves meta and private unpadded if they are the last in the file
21:15:18 [ChrisL]
... font tables always padded
21:15:27 [ChrisL]
... metapadded if private follows
21:15:48 [ChrisL]
s/erik: don't/tal: don't/
21:16:45 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: spec and tool always require padding of all font tables including the last one
21:18:02 [ChrisL]
Vlad: so we should, in section 6, modify text of para 4 to say that if meta is followd by private, meta must be padded to four byte boundary
21:18:11 [ChrisL]
... unless its already on a boundary
21:18:27 [jfkthame]
see http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-WOFF-20100727/#Metadata for older wording
21:19:10 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: WD from July said meta is not padded unless followed by private
21:20:00 [ChrisL]
cslye: can we just say all tables start on 4 byte boundary and pad to make that so
21:21:04 [ChrisL]
Vlad: looking for minimal spec change for clarity
21:21:30 [ChrisL]
... if meta is followed by private
21:21:59 [ChrisL]
cslye: we can leave out language on 'if followed'
21:23:25 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: can we say 0..3 bytes of padding?
21:24:02 [ChrisL]
Vlad: we can say no additional padding is needed
21:24:19 [ChrisL]
... if private is present it must begin on the nearest four byte boundary
21:24:42 [ChrisL]
... after private no padding is necessary
21:25:39 [ChrisL]
erik: no need for padding if meta is the last block
21:26:35 [ChrisL]
Vlad: must begin on a four byte boundary with 0..3 null bytes as padding
21:28:21 [ChrisL]
action: jfkthame to fix up the padding wording per 10 Nov telcon
21:28:21 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-41 - Fix up the padding wording per 10 Nov telcon [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].
21:28:33 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: is trailing padding allowed?
21:28:55 [ChrisL]
Vlad: change must to should, padding is ok if tool adds it
21:29:21 [ChrisL]
erik: easier for tools to always add padding
21:29:40 [ChrisL]
Vlad: agree ther eis no need to reject if the trailing padding is absent
21:30:17 [erik]
(sergey, not erik)
21:30:23 [ChrisL]
cslye: in private, there is good language about up to three bytes, can we reuse that?
21:30:41 [ChrisL]
Vlad: font tables always padded so meta always syarts ona four byte boundary
21:31:12 [ChrisL]
s/erik: easier/sergey: easier/
21:31:57 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: ok, that works
21:32:15 [ChrisL]
Vlad: that deals with one of dave singers comments and one of mine
21:32:32 [ChrisL]
Vlad: chris suggested language for what 'valid metadata' means
21:32:43 [ChrisL]
(no objection)
21:33:01 [ChrisL]
action: jfkthame to update defination of valid metadata
21:33:01 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-42 - Update defination of valid metadata [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].
21:33:28 [ChrisL]
'valid metadata is well formed, matches the schema and is compressed'
21:33:56 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: why is it needed?
21:34:21 [ChrisL]
Vlad: concern was whether rejection on uncompressed or not well formed was neeeded
21:34:29 [ChrisL]
Vlad: or avoid the term valid
21:35:39 [ChrisL]
Vlad: now on the metadata
21:36:23 [ChrisL]
Vlad: uniqueid element is optional but if present, the attribute should be required
21:36:43 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: spec does not say that explicitly, the schema does require it
21:37:59 [ChrisL]
Vlad: spec says that in a discrepancy between spec and schema, the text takes precedence. so the text needs to be clear here
21:38:45 [ChrisL]
action: jfkthame to clarify that @id on uniqueid is required
21:38:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-43 - Clarify that @id on uniqueid is required [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].
21:39:16 [ChrisL]
Vlad: next one is a typo, credits element must contain at least one credit element, the must is lowwrcase, should be MUST
21:40:13 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: all of the elements say that they must be a child of the metadata element, maybe all of these should be MUST
21:40:41 [ChrisL]
Vlad: language on text subelements says they are localisable but does not say that you need at least one of them
21:41:26 [ChrisL]
action: jfkthame to clarify schema language in text to say one or more text elements
21:41:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-44 - Clarify schema language in text to say one or more text elements [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].
21:41:40 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: but they can still make empty text elements
21:42:24 [ChrisL]
Vlad: item element as part of extyension element, current text says at least one should. should be a MUST
21:42:44 [ChrisL]
... otherwise you can have an empty extension element
21:43:03 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: what is the harm?
21:43:17 [ChrisL]
(we go with NUST)
21:43:24 [ChrisL]
s/NUST/MUST/
21:43:43 [ChrisL]
action: jfkthame to make item element a required chilkd of extension
21:43:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-45 - Make item element a required chilkd of extension [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].
21:43:59 [ChrisL]
Vlad: couple of missed testable assertions
21:44:38 [ChrisL]
action chris to add the two missing conformance statements and split out the stylesheet
21:44:38 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-46 - Add the two missing conformance statements and split out the stylesheet [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-11-17].
21:44:54 [ChrisL]
Vlad: some minor changes from jdaggett as well
21:45:15 [ChrisL]
(agree with jdaggett changes)
21:46:25 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: feedback was that getting a font/ top level type was a lot of lengthy work
21:46:34 [ChrisL]
Vlad: nice to have but risk of delay
21:47:08 [Zakim]
-Erik
21:47:23 [ChrisL]
Vlad: if that is the consensus we could go straight with application/font-woff
21:48:04 [Zakim]
+Erik
21:48:07 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: this could easily consume a year or two . hard to justify
21:48:46 [ChrisL]
resolved: go with application/font-woff
21:49:40 [ChrisL]
action: chris to edit the media registration to say application/font-woff
21:49:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-47 - Edit the media registration to say application/font-woff [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-11-17].
21:49:56 [ChrisL]
action-23?
21:49:56 [trackbot]
ACTION-23 -- Jonathan Kew to verify whether, with zlib, it's possible to have a stream that allows an EOF midstream, so extra data can be padded on mid-stream. -- due 2010-08-24 -- CLOSED
21:49:56 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/23
21:50:08 [ChrisL]
action-33?
21:50:08 [trackbot]
ACTION-33 -- Chris Lilley to write up the proposed text for WOFF processing model -- due 2010-10-27 -- OPEN
21:50:08 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/33
21:50:13 [ChrisL]
close action-33
21:50:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-33 Write up the proposed text for WOFF processing model closed
21:50:38 [ChrisL]
close action-34
21:50:38 [trackbot]
ACTION-34 Add id and class to testable assertions closed
21:51:07 [ChrisL]
close action-39
21:51:07 [trackbot]
ACTION-39 Write to iesg suggesting font/ top level type closed
21:51:31 [ChrisL]
close action-40
21:51:32 [trackbot]
ACTION-40 Add a media type registration remplate for woff, omitting the top level type closed
21:51:57 [ChrisL]
topic: decision to request last call
21:52:02 [ChrisL]
Vlad: any objections?
21:52:04 [ChrisL]
(none)
21:52:14 [ChrisL]
resolved: request last call for woff specification
21:52:23 [ChrisL]
Vlad: timeframe for spec edits?
21:52:55 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: will do tomorrow
21:53:29 [ChrisL]
Vlad: please send email to list once spec edits are done. we will then consider it ready for publication
21:53:56 [ChrisL]
adjourned
21:54:03 [ChrisL]
zakim, list attendees
21:54:03 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been ChrisL, Vlad, +44.845.397.aabb, +1.443.895.aacc, +1.425.213.aadd, jfkthame, +1.408.536.aaee, cslye, +31.70.360.aaff, Erik, tal
21:55:39 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:55:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html ChrisL
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-cslye
21:56:01 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
21:56:02 [Zakim]
-tal
21:56:02 [Zakim]
-Vlad
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- +1.425.213.aadd
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-Erik
21:56:11 [Zakim]
-jfkthame
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IA_Fonts()4:00PM has ended
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Attendees were ChrisL, Vlad, +44.845.397.aabb, +1.443.895.aacc, +1.425.213.aadd, jfkthame, +1.408.536.aaee, cslye, +31.70.360.aaff, Erik, tal
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erik has left #webfonts
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cslye has left #webfonts