IRC log of wam on 2010-10-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:59:20 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/21-wam-irc
12:59:22 [Zakim]
+Art_Barstow
12:59:27 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make log Public
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ScribeNick: ArtB
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Scribe: Art
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Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0153.html
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Chair: Art
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Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
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Regrets: Steven_Pemberton, Frederick_Hirsch
12:59:42 [Zakim]
+Marcos
13:01:57 [ArtB]
Present: Art_Barstow, Marcos_Caceres
13:02:02 [ArtB]
Topic: Announcements
13:02:12 [ArtB]
AB: October 26 is the deadline for comments re October 5 LCWD of Widget Packaging and Configuration ( http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-widgets-20101005/ )
13:04:00 [ArtB]
AB: WAI's P&F WG would like to meet with the widgets group @ TPAC on November 1; I will send details of the meeting include voice bridge (when I have them)
13:10:03 [timeless_mbp]
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13:15:49 [ArtB]
Topic: Packaging and Configuration spec
13:15:56 [ArtB]
AB: I created a comment tracking doc for the LC ( http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/42538/WD-widgets-20101005/ )
13:16:14 [ArtB]
AB: we have comments from viji <viji@borqs.com> (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0130.html )
13:16:49 [ArtB]
MC: Viji is from Borqs
13:17:04 [ArtB]
... they are a development arm for China Mobile
13:17:21 [Marcos]
MC: AFIK
13:17:50 [ArtB]
AB: Issue-150 "Email and param name and value as 'Keyword attributes' is causing confusion in Widgets P&C Spec" ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/150 )
13:17:50 [ArtB]
AB: Issue-151 "If feature-name is not a valid IRI, and required-feature is true, then the user agent must treat this widget as an invalid widget package. but doesnt say anything about the case when it is not required." ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/151 )
13:17:50 [ArtB]
AB: Issue-152 "test suite needs a few more XML entity cases to check for well-formed XML" ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/152 )
13:18:05 [ArtB]
AB: 152 seems more like an action
13:18:13 [ArtB]
MC: oh yes, that's true
13:18:26 [ArtB]
... can change it to an Action
13:18:52 [Steven]
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13:18:57 [ArtB]
... I am reluctant to add more tests
13:19:00 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
13:19:00 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:19:02 [Zakim]
+Steven
13:19:11 [ArtB]
... they test XML entity types
13:19:23 [ArtB]
Present+ Steven_Pemberton
13:20:55 [ArtB]
AB: what about issue-151?
13:20:55 [ArtB]
Issue-151?
13:20:55 [ArtB]
MC: we just need to add a clarification
13:20:55 [trackbot]
ISSUE-151 -- [widgets] P&C Spec.... If feature-name is not a valid IRI, and required-feature is true, then the user agent must treat this widget as an invalid widget package. but doesnt say anything about the case when it is not required. -- raised
13:20:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/151
13:21:09 [ArtB]
AB: yes, I agree with it is just a clarification
13:21:20 [ArtB]
AB: and what about issue-150?
13:21:26 [ArtB]
Issue-150?
13:21:26 [trackbot]
ISSUE-150 -- [widgets] Email and param name and value as 'Keyword attributes' is causing confusion in Widgets P&C Spec -- raised
13:21:26 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/150
13:21:40 [ArtB]
MC: this is just an editorial cleanup
13:21:55 [ArtB]
... need to define a new data type like "unlocalizable string"
13:22:43 [ArtB]
ACTION: barstow update LC comment doc to show Issues 150 and 151 are clarifications and editorial, respectively
13:22:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-590 - Update LC comment doc to show Issues 150 and 151 are clarifications and editorial, respectively [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-10-28].
13:22:58 [ArtB]
action: caceres to checkin updates for issues 150 and 151
13:23:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-591 - Checkin updates for issues 150 and 151 [on Marcos Caceres - due 2010-10-28].
13:23:28 [ArtB]
AB: anything else on P&C for today?
13:23:47 [ArtB]
MC: can we talk about embedding?
13:23:55 [ArtB]
AB: let's talk about that during AoB
13:23:57 [ArtB]
MC: ok
13:24:04 [ArtB]
Topic: Widget Interface spec
13:24:10 [ArtB]
AB: Addison's October 14 e-mail ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0096.html )
13:24:58 [ArtB]
AB: he wants a locale attribute off the widget object
13:25:07 [ArtB]
MC: yes, that's right
13:25:21 [ArtB]
... think he should just use navigator.language
13:25:59 [fjh]
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13:26:59 [ArtB]
AB: let me find the relevant email in the archive
13:27:09 [ArtB]
... here is your response to Addison: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0033.html
13:27:44 [Zakim]
-Steven
13:27:55 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
13:27:55 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
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+Steven
13:28:07 [Marcos]
http://www.iamcal.com/understanding-bidirectional-text/
13:28:12 [ArtB]
MC: I have another response that I drafted but haven't yet set
13:28:12 [ArtB]
... think he misunderstood what me
13:30:23 [ArtB]
Regrets: Frederick_Hirsch
13:31:09 [ArtB]
MC: my answer to the locale is to use navigator.language
13:32:51 [ArtB]
AB: Addison also is asking "how does the API expose a string's direction?"
13:33:02 [ArtB]
... the problem is that the "span-able" elements may have any number of directions
13:33:09 [ArtB]
... so there is no single direction
13:34:03 [ArtB]
... I know you responded to Addison; I think you are talking past each other
13:34:03 [ArtB]
MC: correct; a string can have N directions
13:34:14 [ArtB]
... can use unicode markers
13:34:31 [ArtB]
... e.g. http://www.iamcal.com/understanding-bidirectional-text/
13:34:50 [ArtB]
... can have a leading direction but then substrings may change direction
13:35:19 [ArtB]
AB: is there a precedence we can build upon?
13:35:21 [Marcos]
e.g. U+202E A B C U+202C
13:35:32 [Marcos]
OR: start {LRE} foo {RLE} bar {PDF} baz {PDF} end
13:36:45 [Marcos]
MC: in P&C, the i18n string is represented as (start {LRE} foo {RLE} bar {PDF} baz {PDF} end)
13:37:46 [ArtB]
MC: in the API we can note what the string can look like (pointing to P&C spec)
13:38:40 [Marcos]
widget.name == "u/202E foo u/1231 bar u/123 baz /3112 end u/1231
13:38:41 [Marcos]
"
13:39:27 [Marcos]
document.write(widget.name)
13:39:41 [Marcos]
http://www.iamcal.com/understanding-bidirectional-text/
13:40:02 [Marcos]
putInPlace(string, widget.name)
13:40:18 [Marcos]
putInPlace(element, widget.name)
13:40:42 [ArtB]
MC: this isn't something that can be done at the widget API level
13:40:50 [ArtB]
... it could be something done at the DOM level
13:41:17 [ArtB]
... don't think this is something that needs to be standardized
13:42:05 [ArtB]
AB: can you respond to Addison with your proposal?
13:42:10 [Marcos]
winget.name.lang
13:42:12 [ArtB]
MC: yes, I will do that
13:42:35 [ArtB]
... for locale use, widget.name.lang
13:42:54 [ArtB]
... and for directionality, I will reiterate what I've previously said
13:43:19 [ArtB]
... we are going to return strings with Unicode markers
13:43:55 [ArtB]
AB: ok; sounds good; I would welcome his feedback on what other WGs have done here
13:44:45 [ArtB]
Topic: Widget Requirements: CfC to publish a new WD; only changes are updating references and the now obsolete spec titles (e.g. Widgets 1.0: Packaging and Configuration) <http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-reqs/>
13:45:57 [ArtB]
AB: any objections to publishing this WD?
13:46:01 [ArtB]
MC: no
13:46:05 [ArtB]
SP: good plan
13:46:22 [ArtB]
RESOLUTION: agree to publish the new WD of the Widget Requirements doc
13:46:36 [ArtB]
ACTION: barstow submit a publication request to publish new WD of Widget Requirements
13:46:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-592 - Submit a publication request to publish new WD of Widget Requirements [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-10-28].
13:46:43 [ArtB]
Topic: AoB
13:47:39 [ArtB]
AB: there has been some discussion about packaging web apps for browsers
13:48:04 [ArtB]
... Mozilla's Mike Hanson elaborated on how their approach relates to P&C: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0159.html
13:48:35 [ArtB]
... Doug mentioned this could be in scope via WebApps' "Widget Embedding" deliverable
13:49:06 [ArtB]
... Someone else mentioned, this appears to be similar to Chrome extensions framework, at least from the manifest perspective
13:49:14 [ArtB]
... they also use JSON
13:49:19 [ArtB]
MC: yes
13:49:43 [ArtB]
AB: we can certainly do some work in this area
13:49:55 [ArtB]
MC: yes, we should discuss this
13:51:39 [ArtB]
... don't want fragmentation
13:52:01 [ArtB]
AB: I think it would be good to talk about the UCs and Reqs
13:52:20 [timeless_mbp]
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13:52:22 [ArtB]
... I do think our priority here should be to complete work we already started
13:52:30 [ArtB]
... but most of the work is already done
13:52:47 [ArtB]
MC: I'm willing to put in hooks to accomdate future devlopment
13:53:00 [ArtB]
... but I do not want to break any normative parts of the P&C spec
13:53:08 [ArtB]
AB: agree
13:53:42 [ArtB]
AB: it may be too late to schedule related discussions for TPAC
13:53:55 [ArtB]
... but we can certainly start discussions on the mail list
13:54:01 [ArtB]
... and have informal discussions in Lyon
13:54:13 [ArtB]
MC: yes, I agree
13:54:48 [ArtB]
AB: not sure how to proceed
13:55:04 [ArtB]
... assume people will respond to the thread already started
13:55:51 [ArtB]
AB: the action is for anyone interested in "Widget Embedding" to use public-webapps for discussions
13:56:32 [ArtB]
AB: regarding next call, I think after TPAC makes sense
13:57:10 [ArtB]
MC: yes, we should continue to use the list, especially for P&C and Interface specs
13:57:38 [ArtB]
AB: tentatively, the next call would be November 4
13:57:45 [ArtB]
AB: anything else for today?
13:58:45 [ArtB]
AB: meeting adjourned
13:58:51 [Zakim]
-Art_Barstow
13:58:53 [Zakim]
-Marcos
13:58:57 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/21-wam-minutes.html ArtB
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-Steven
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IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Art_Barstow, Marcos, Steven
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zakim, bye
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Zakim has left #wam
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rrsagent, bye
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I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/21-wam-actions.rdf :
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ACTION: barstow update LC comment doc to show Issues 150 and 151 are clarifications and editorial, respectively [1]
14:06:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/21-wam-irc#T13-22-43
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ACTION: caceres to checkin updates for issues 150 and 151 [2]
14:06:59 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/21-wam-irc#T13-22-58
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ACTION: barstow submit a publication request to publish new WD of Widget Requirements [3]
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recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/21-wam-irc#T13-46-36