IRC log of webperf on 2010-10-20
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:15:39 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #webperf
- 16:15:39 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/20-webperf-irc
- 16:15:46 [AndersonQuach_]
- list the agenda
- 16:18:44 [AndersonQuach_]
- agenda+ Feedback on Privacy Issue w/ Navigation Timing.
- 16:18:52 [AndersonQuach_]
- agenda+ Next steps to getting Navigation Timing to draft.
- 16:18:58 [AndersonQuach_]
- agenda+ Getting started with Resource Timing and User Timing.
- 16:19:04 [AndersonQuach_]
- agenda+ Any other business.
- 16:21:36 [Zhiheng]
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- 16:22:53 [biesi]
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- 16:27:40 [AndersonQuach_]
- meeting: Web Performance Working Group Teleconference
- 16:27:47 [AndersonQuach_]
- present: Sigbjorn
- 16:27:51 [AndersonQuach_]
- present: Zhiheng
- 16:27:54 [AndersonQuach_]
- present: NicJansma
- 16:27:59 [AndersonQuach_]
- present: AndersonQuach
- 16:28:22 [AndersonQuach_]
- Regrets: JasonWeber
- 16:28:33 [AndersonQuach_]
- regrets: plh
- 16:29:14 [AndersonQuach_]
- next agenda
- 16:30:03 [AndersonQuach_]
- Zhiheng: TonyG has gone thru security review with the Chrome team, suggestions include zero'ing out redirectCount in different origin navigations in the timeline, and to provide a means to disable the interface completely
- 16:30:26 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: Sounds good, as long as the disable via UI is a non-normative requirement.
- 16:31:06 [AndersonQuach_]
- Sigborn: We must be safe by default. The timings that reveal off-domain must not be available programmatically.
- 16:31:22 [AndersonQuach_]
- scribe: AndersonQuach
- 16:32:11 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: It can be feasible to attack with the same origin and a redirect service. We could remove redirectCount altogether.
- 16:32:29 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: And disable redirect and unloading timings for different origin.
- 16:33:07 [AndersonQuach_]
- Zhiheng: We need to hear more feedback from user-agent and security experts about the removal of redirectCount
- 16:33:23 [AndersonQuach_]
- Zhiheng: where is navigationStart?
- 16:34:59 [AndersonQuach_]
- Sigborn: What is same domain, same cookie domain?
- 16:35:02 [AndersonQuach_]
- Zhiheng: Same host
- 16:35:06 [AndersonQuach_]
- Sigborn: Cookie domain, sub domains of yahoo.com
- 16:35:17 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: where did we land with navigationStart
- 16:37:04 [AndersonQuach_]
- NicJansma: A->B->A->A, navigationStart should begin immediately prior the second A
- 16:37:35 [AndersonQuach_]
- NicJansma: for same domain with different origin redirections
- 16:37:59 [AndersonQuach_]
- Zhiheng: need to look to clarify navigationStart and redirectStart
- 16:42:47 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: Zhiheng, can you capture your thoughts and we'll get feedback from Jonas and TonyG?
- 16:43:30 [AndersonQuach_]
- NicJansma: Anderson and I will follow-up with additional feedback from our security review via mail and for the next meeting.
- 16:44:02 [AndersonQuach_]
- Sigborn: Should make the same domain be the same as the cookie domain, I will write it up.
- 16:45:17 [AndersonQuach_]
- Present: Biesi
- 16:46:51 [AndersonQuach_]
- Next Agenda
- 16:47:12 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: Let's move the spec to a working draft as all the latest feedback has been incorporated.
- 16:48:48 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: Let's be explicit that this is not a user-agent benchmark.
- 16:49:09 [AndersonQuach_]
- Sigborn: Let's say due to the non-normative phases, the individual phases should not be used as a benchmark.
- 16:49:15 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: Agreed.
- 16:49:40 [AndersonQuach_]
- Next Agenda
- 16:52:18 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: Let's simplify the accessing of the ResourceTiming
- 16:52:53 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: Let's say have a fixed buffer of 1000, have the ability to clear the buffer, and to expand the buffer to cater to WebApps.
- 16:53:14 [AndersonQuach_]
- Zhiheng: We don't want developers to crawl the page.
- 16:54:27 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: Agreed, we should have the timing centralized.
- 16:54:38 [AndersonQuach_]
- Zhiheng: Yup, the object should be easily serialized into a JSON object.
- 16:54:59 [AndersonQuach_]
- Zhiheng: How can a developer get the timing about a specific image?
- 16:55:20 [AndersonQuach_]
- NicJansma: Timing of a specific image?
- 16:55:23 [AndersonQuach_]
- Zhiheng: Yes.
- 16:56:00 [AndersonQuach_]
- NicJansma: ResourceTiming can have the URL and potentially the id and provide a means to filter based on type and/or id.
- 16:56:48 [AndersonQuach_]
- NicJansma: Goal for ResourceTiming to get timing that is inaccessible to JS.
- 16:57:14 [AndersonQuach_]
- NicJansma: We should keep in mind to be able to get the timing for individual elements and the collection.
- 16:57:36 [AndersonQuach_]
- Zhiheng: Come up with a short summary proposal and review the proposals.
- 16:58:12 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: I can write that out.
- 17:00:21 [AndersonQuach_]
- Zhiheng: ResourceTiming has privacy concern as well. To have an HTML header to turn this on.
- 17:02:08 [AndersonQuach_]
- Zhiheng: implement the allow policy in the http header.
- 17:02:24 [AndersonQuach_]
- Sigborn: This is possible but difficult to implement as seen in other W3C discussions.
- 17:03:12 [AndersonQuach_]
- NicJansma: For different origin we can reduce the amount of details, just having fetchStart -> loadEventEnd, not providing additional info via JS. Provide total time to load the content.
- 17:03:41 [AndersonQuach_]
- Sigborn: Expand definition of Same Origin to include Same Cookie Domain + Sub Domain.
- 17:06:34 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: 1. We agree to move spec to working draft.
- 17:06:38 [Martijnc]
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- 17:06:48 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: 2. Discuss privacy offline, feedback from Tony and Jonas.
- 17:06:59 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: 3. Zhiheng will provide a proposal for navigationStart.
- 17:07:05 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: 4. Anderson will respond with the simplified resource timing proposal.
- 17:07:14 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach: Thanks everyone for meeting!
- 17:08:00 [AndersonQuach_]
- rrsagent, set logs world-visible
- 17:08:31 [AndersonQuach_]
- Chair: ArvindJain
- 17:08:38 [AndersonQuach_]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 17:08:38 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/20-webperf-minutes.html AndersonQuach_
- 17:09:08 [AndersonQuach_]
- Present+ AndersonQuach
- 17:09:12 [AndersonQuach_]
- Present+ Zhiheng
- 17:09:19 [AndersonQuach_]
- Present+ NicJansma
- 17:09:25 [AndersonQuach_]
- Present+ Sigbjorn
- 17:09:30 [AndersonQuach_]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 17:09:30 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/20-webperf-minutes.html AndersonQuach_
- 17:10:00 [AndersonQuach_]
- Present+ ArvindJain
- 18:22:52 [AndersonQuach]
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- 18:22:59 [AndersonQuach]
- list the agenda
- 18:27:39 [AndersonQuach_]
- AndersonQuach_ has joined #webperf
- 18:32:12 [AndersonQuach]
- rrsagent publish minutes
- 18:32:24 [AndersonQuach]
- rrsagent, publish minutes
- 18:32:24 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/20-webperf-minutes.html AndersonQuach
- 18:33:02 [AndersonQuach]
- dismiss Zakim
- 18:33:07 [AndersonQuach]
- dismiss rrsagent
- 18:33:13 [AndersonQuach]
- zakim, please part
- 18:33:13 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #webperf
- 18:33:18 [AndersonQuach]
- rrsagent, please part
- 18:33:18 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items