18:59:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
18:59:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-svg-irc
19:00:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:00:01 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
19:00:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:00:03 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG()4:00PM scheduled to start in 60 minutes
19:00:04 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:00:04 <trackbot> Date: 19 October 2010
19:02:24 <ed> trackbot, end telcon
19:02:24 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
19:02:24 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
19:02:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
19:02:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-svg-minutes.html trackbot
19:02:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
19:02:26 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
20:00:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:00:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-svg-irc
20:00:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:00:41 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:00:41 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()4:00PM already started
20:00:42 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:00:42 <trackbot> Date: 19 October 2010
20:00:44 <Zakim> +??P2
20:00:46 <heycam> Zakim, ??P2 is me
20:00:46 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
20:01:09 <Zakim> +??P3
20:01:16 <ed> Zakim, ??P3 is me
20:01:16 <Zakim> +ed; got it
20:01:34 <Zakim> +Shepazu
20:05:07 <pdengler> scribeNick: pdengler
20:05:16 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
20:05:29 <ChrisL> rrsagent, here
20:05:29 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-svg-irc#T20-05-29
20:06:50 <pdengler> Topic: Test Suite
20:07:12 <pdengler> ed: Number of check-ins on editors list have come in
20:07:26 <pdengler> ed: cameron had changes to the spec. What were they?
20:07:41 <Zakim> +ChrisL
20:07:56 <pdengler> ed: There were some styling issues, not content changes
20:09:12 <pdengler> heycam: Erik made a change to the java binding of the interface exceptions were fixed to bind appropriately to java exceptions
20:09:41 <ChrisL> changes I made were for ACTION-2880
20:09:43 <ChrisL> ACTION-2880?
20:09:43 <trackbot> ACTION-2880 -- Chris Lilley to mark all the accepted tests from todays telcon -- due 2010-10-19 -- CLOSED
20:09:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2880
20:09:57 <pdengler> ChrisL: Finished up the action from the last telecon
20:10:56 <pdengler> ed: One comment: One of the filter test already had a patch file
20:11:58 <pdengler> ChrisL: I captured the image from Opera to create the .PNG
20:13:19 <pdengler> ChrisL: This is an exception and didn't need to happend.  Typcially we will hydrate a static SVG file to represent the final image
20:14:58 <pdengler> pdengler: Is this the auto geneated site for tests: http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/status/test_suite_status.html
20:16:05 <pdengler> pdengler has joined #svg
20:16:32 <pdengler> ChrisL: Currently doesn't have all tests, only has the accepted tests
20:17:05 <pdengler> heycam: The script could be modified to include tests not accepted, but it does not at this time
20:17:26 <pdengler> pdengler: We talked last time about cotinuing the evalute the Microsoft sumbitted tests 
20:18:14 <pdengler> heycam: I am happy to look at those tests
20:18:38 <pdengler> ChrisL: All that I have looked at I marked as reviewed and we accepted
20:18:40 <pdengler> coords-transformattr-03-f
20:18:40 <pdengler> coords-transformattr-04-f
20:18:40 <pdengler> coords-transformattr-05-f
20:18:40 <pdengler> imp-path-01-f
20:18:40 <pdengler> imp-path-01-f
20:18:41 <pdengler> interact-pevents-10-f
20:18:43 <pdengler> interact-pointer-04-f
20:18:45 <pdengler> linking-a-10-f
20:18:47 <pdengler> masking-mask-02-f
20:18:49 <pdengler> masking-path-12-f
20:18:51 <pdengler> masking-path-13-f
20:18:53 <pdengler> masking-path-14-f
20:18:55 <pdengler> painting-marker-07-f
20:18:57 <pdengler> painting-marker-08-f
20:18:59 <pdengler> painting-marker-properties-01-f
20:19:01 <pdengler> pservers-grad-23-f
20:19:03 <pdengler> pservers-grad-24-f
20:19:05 <pdengler> pservers-grad-stops-01-f
20:19:07 <pdengler> pservers-pattern-04-f
20:19:09 <pdengler> pservers-pattern-05-f
20:19:11 <pdengler> pservers-pattern-06-f
20:19:13 <pdengler> struct-cond-overview-02-f
20:19:15 <pdengler> struct-cond-overview-03-f
20:19:17 <pdengler> struct-cond-overview-04-f
20:19:19 <pdengler> struct-dom-16-f.svg
20:19:21 <pdengler> struct-dom-17-f.svg 
20:19:23 <pdengler> struct-dom-18-f.svg 
20:19:25 <pdengler> struct-dom-19-f.svg 
20:19:27 <pdengler> struct-use-14-f
20:19:29 <pdengler> struct-use-14-f.svg
20:19:31 <pdengler> struct-use-15-f
20:19:33 <pdengler> struct-use-15-f.svg 
20:19:35 <pdengler> styling-class-01-f
20:19:37 <pdengler> styling-css-09-f
20:19:39 <pdengler> styling-pres-03-f
20:19:41 <pdengler> styling-pres-04-f
20:19:43 <pdengler> styling-pres-05-f
20:19:45 <pdengler> text-fonts-05-f
20:19:47 <pdengler> types-dom-svgfittoviewbox-01-f
20:19:49 <pdengler> types-dom-svglengthlist-01-f
20:19:51 <pdengler> types-dom-svgnumberlist-01-f
20:19:53 <pdengler> types-dom-svgstringlist-01-f
20:19:55 <pdengler> types-dom-svgtransformable-01-f
20:19:57 <pdengler> pdengler: Above are the tests I believe that haven't yet been reviewed that Microsoft submitted
20:20:01 <ChrisL> or as an alternative, grep Microsoft *.svg | grep -v approved
20:20:15 <pdengler> Topic: TPAC
20:21:16 <pdengler> ed: Who will be at TPAC
20:21:59 <pdengler> pdengler, ed, schepazu, anthony, chris
20:22:58 <anthony> anthony has joined #svg
20:23:07 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:23:19 <anthony> Zakim, [IP is me
20:23:19 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
20:24:07 <pdengler> shepazu: We should schedule a tuesday meetng with CSS
20:24:25 <pdengler> ChrisL: I discussed this with the CSS telecon; we want to have a meeting, but haven't finalized that
20:24:30 <pdengler> ed: I cannot make Tuesday
20:24:40 <pdengler> shepazu: Maybe we can allocate our time to meet with them instead
20:25:19 <pdengler> shepazu: Chris, can you go back and say we want to meet on Thursday
20:25:29 <pdengler> ChrisL: I will propose that as a date
20:27:45 <pdengler> I will submit a high level proposal on a scoped approach to transforms, transitions, animations and the SVG DOM which should compliment all efforts to date
20:28:05 <shepazu> s/compliment/complement/
20:28:27 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
20:28:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see [Microsoft], heycam, ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, anthony
20:28:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see anthony, pdengler, ChrisL, RRSAgent, Zakim, heycam, ed, eseidel, anthony_work, karl, ed_work, shepazu, fantasai, trackbot
20:28:42 <ChrisL> zakim, microsoft holds Patrick and Adrian
20:28:42 <Zakim> +Patrick, Adrian; got it
20:28:45 <shepazu> agenda+ transformed coordinates method
20:30:00 <pdengler> ChrisL: Fonts doesn't need anything specific in the spec that would affect SVG. WOFF support should be just mentioned as required in SVG 2.0
20:30:27 <adrianba> adrianba has joined #svg
20:30:59 <pdengler> ed: Does your white paper cover 3d transforms
20:31:09 <pdengler> pdengler: No not now, it's a scoping issue
20:31:26 <pdengler> shepazu: If your paper doesn't cover Filters, paint servers, we should possibly discuss that as well
20:32:44 <pdengler> shepazu: We shoud look at these with CSS working group
20:33:00 <pdengler> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/
20:33:09 <pdengler> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/charter/
20:34:38 <pdengler> Topic: transform coordinates
20:34:59 <pdengler> shepazu: Currently getCoordsAt api was reivewed with DOML3 event WG
20:35:30 <pdengler> shepazu: The other folks didn't agree it was in scope
20:35:49 <pdengler> shepazu: Failing that, the most natural place to put this method is in the transforms spec
20:36:15 <pdengler> http://dev.w3.org/Graphics-FX/modules/2D-transforms/spec/2DTransforms.html
20:37:37 <pdengler> shepazu: Original thought would be that there would be a couple of attributes to support the transformed coordinate space (absX,absY)
20:37:56 <pdengler> shepazu: on the mouse event.  And then return you an X and Y
20:38:36 <pdengler> shepazu: jwatt had a proposal by using a method (getCoordsAt)
20:40:30 <pdengler> pdengler: can't we just share the code that jwatt provided that unwinds the transforms
20:40:44 <pdengler> anthony: We should but that in the spec.
20:41:16 <pdengler> pdengler: And would that apply to nested content HTML/SVG/HTML/SVG
20:41:38 <pdengler> shepazu: Yes, it would probably be on Element, which inherits from node
20:42:01 <pdengler> anthony: now is the time to do it
20:42:18 <ChrisL> /me fixed the encoding of the fx charter btw
20:43:03 <pdengler> action: anthony to add getCoordsAt to transform spec and coordinate with shepazu
20:43:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2883 - Add getCoordsAt to transform spec and coordinate with shepazu [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-10-26].
20:43:44 <pdengler> Topic: href , xlink:href
20:44:33 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0029.html
20:47:42 <pdengler> pdengler: We do not want to change the casing of the HTML parser and what it serialized out as
20:47:57 <ChrisL> ok so in xml, href is the only spelling that is accepted. for html serialisation, HrEf will get serialized as href
20:48:36 <pdengler> shepazu: This actually touches on something else. If I didn't want to have xlink: as my namespace
20:49:18 <pdengler> shepazu: hard coded prefixes is a reasonable fix to this problem
20:49:36 <ChrisL> rdf uses a tone of namespaces
20:49:58 <pdengler> shepazu: There are a handful of common prefixes
20:53:05 <pdengler> shepazu: The one I care about is xlink.
20:53:23 <adrianba> HTML5 defines some attributes with a fixed prefix: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/syntax.html#attributes-0
20:53:46 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/namespaces.html#svg-namespace
20:55:19 <pdengler> Topic: Animations and baseValues
20:56:02 <pdengler> shepazu: I would like to start doing something on animation in the fx task force
20:56:15 <pdengler> heycam: Me too. 
20:58:50 <pdengler> shepazu: are we going to use the 'lacuna' approach in SVG 2.0
20:59:23 <pdengler> shepazu: e.g. If you don't specify width, and you animate width, what does it start with. That's not said in the spec
20:59:30 <pdengler> ed: I think it is set in the spec
20:59:57 <ed> implied by the animVal DOM
21:00:29 <pdengler> shepazu: I used to think that the SMIL worked on the same presentation model as CSS, but it does not
21:00:54 <pdengler> shepazu: now that we are going to specify it, are we going to have two different models for the two different syntaxes, or could we say that they are one and the same.
21:01:07 <pdengler> shepazu: That means we only have one way to get the presentation value
21:01:18 <pdengler> shepazu: SMIL doesn't care what the OM is.
21:02:03 <pdengler> shepazu: If we have the freedom, we could move forward with using CSS as the animation underneath the DOM
21:03:54 <pdengler> shepazu: What if we exposed our attributes through the CSS OM for purposes of animation
21:04:08 <pdengler> ChrisL: If you can find some good wording that represents that
21:06:50 <pdengler> Topic: Test Status (with Anthony on the call now0
21:07:06 <pdengler> anthony: I commited about 10 tests a minute ago
21:08:48 <shepazu> agenda+ test for SVG in <image>?
21:09:17 <pdengler> action: anthony to modify the script to allow different test suites status to be created
21:09:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2884 - Modify the script to allow different test suites status to be created [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-10-26].
21:09:49 <shepazu> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/64113
21:10:19 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/struct-image-16-f.svg
21:10:43 <heycam> http://mcc.id.au/temp/ser.html -- a test to see how xlink:href is serialized in html
21:13:49 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/struct-image-05-b.svg
21:14:34 <ChrisL> coords-transformattr-05-f.svg 
21:14:53 <ChrisL> I found five tests with grep \<image *.svg | grep .svg\"
21:16:56 <ChrisL>  a test that points to an image with script, and the pass is that the script does not run
21:24:55 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:24:57 <Zakim> -ed
21:24:59 <Zakim> -ChrisL
21:24:59 <Zakim> -heycam
21:25:06 <Zakim> -anthony
21:25:09 <Zakim> -Shepazu
21:25:10 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()4:00PM has ended
21:25:12 <Zakim> Attendees were heycam, ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, [IPcaller], anthony, Patrick, Adrian
21:25:22 <ed> trackbot, end telcon
21:25:22 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
21:25:22 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
21:25:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:25:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-svg-minutes.html trackbot
21:25:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
21:25:24 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-svg-actions.rdf :
21:25:24 <RRSAgent> ACTION: anthony to add getCoordsAt to transform spec and coordinate with shepazu [1]
21:25:24 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-svg-irc#T20-43-03
21:25:24 <RRSAgent> ACTION: anthony to modify the script to allow different test suites status to be created [2]
21:25:24 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-svg-irc#T21-09-17