IRC log of html-a11y on 2010-10-07
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:58:33 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
- 14:58:33 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-html-a11y-irc
- 14:58:35 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 14:58:35 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #html-a11y
- 14:58:37 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 2119
- 14:58:37 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
- 14:58:38 [trackbot]
- Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 14:58:38 [trackbot]
- Date: 07 October 2010
- 14:58:59 [MichaelC]
- agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Oct/0297.html
- 14:59:05 [janina]
- zakim, call janina
- 14:59:05 [Zakim]
- ok, janina; the call is being made
- 14:59:06 [MichaelC]
- regrets: Laura_Carlson, Denis_Boudreau
- 14:59:34 [janina]
- zakim, drop janina
- 14:59:34 [Zakim]
- sorry, janina, I don't know what conference this is
- 14:59:36 [oedipus]
- regrets+ Kenny_Johar
- 15:00:12 [janina]
- zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML
- 15:00:12 [Zakim]
- ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM already started
- 15:00:20 [janina]
- zakim, call janina
- 15:00:20 [Zakim]
- ok, janina; the call is being made
- 15:00:21 [Zakim]
- +Janina.a
- 15:00:26 [JF]
- JF has joined #html-a11y
- 15:00:35 [janina]
- zakim, drop janina
- 15:00:35 [Zakim]
- Janina is being disconnected
- 15:00:36 [Zakim]
- -Janina
- 15:00:46 [janina]
- zakim, call janina
- 15:00:46 [Zakim]
- ok, janina; the call is being made
- 15:00:48 [Zakim]
- +Janina
- 15:01:11 [janina]
- zakim, drop janina
- 15:01:11 [Zakim]
- Janina is being disconnected
- 15:01:12 [Zakim]
- -Janina
- 15:01:14 [Zakim]
- +Michael_Cooper
- 15:01:17 [janina]
- OK, I'll dial in
- 15:01:26 [MichaelC]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:01:26 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see [IPcaller], John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, Janina.a (muted), Michael_Cooper
- 15:01:39 [MichaelC]
- zakim, who's noisy?
- 15:01:45 [kliehm]
- kliehm has joined #html-a11y
- 15:01:50 [Zakim]
- MichaelC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller] (7%), John_Foliot (77%), Gregory_Rosmaita (39%)
- 15:01:56 [Zakim]
- + +49.699.435.aaaa
- 15:02:01 [Zakim]
- +Janina_Sajka
- 15:02:29 [Zakim]
- -Janina.a
- 15:02:56 [MichaelC]
- zakim, IPcaller is Everett_Zufelt
- 15:02:56 [Zakim]
- +Everett_Zufelt; got it
- 15:03:01 [MichaelC]
- zakim, who's noisy?
- 15:03:11 [oedipus]
- zakim, mute Gregory_Rosmaita
- 15:03:11 [Zakim]
- Gregory_Rosmaita should now be muted
- 15:03:13 [Zakim]
- MichaelC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: John_Foliot (45%), Michael_Cooper (64%)
- 15:03:20 [oedipus]
- zakim, unmute Gregory_Rosmaita
- 15:03:20 [Zakim]
- Gregory_Rosmaita should no longer be muted
- 15:03:20 [MichaelC]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:03:21 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Everett_Zufelt, John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita (muted), Michael_Cooper, kliehm (muted), Janina_Sajka
- 15:03:27 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, call Mike-goog
- 15:03:27 [Zakim]
- ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
- 15:03:28 [Zakim]
- +Mike
- 15:04:13 [MikeSmith]
- congrats to Drupal project
- 15:04:21 [oedipus]
- EZ: drupal 7 finally has a beta release -- a lot of work went into making D7 more accessible
- 15:05:13 [Zakim]
- +Rich
- 15:06:29 [Zakim]
- -kliehm
- 15:07:01 [Zakim]
- +Cynthia_Shelly
- 15:07:13 [oedipus]
- EZ: will be an upgrade patch from D7 beta1 from D6
- 15:07:33 [oedipus]
- s/from D7/for D7/
- 15:07:54 [oedipus]
- zakim, who is here?
- 15:07:54 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Everett_Zufelt, John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Mike, Rich, Cynthia_Shelly
- 15:07:57 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see kliehm, JF, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, MikeSmith, richardschwerdtfe, oedipus, davidb, MichaelC, silvia, trackbot
- 15:08:07 [oedipus]
- regrets+ Joshue_O'Connor
- 15:08:13 [oedipus]
- zakim, choose a victim
- 15:08:13 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Janina_Sajka
- 15:08:20 [oedipus]
- zakim, choose a victim
- 15:08:20 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Mike
- 15:08:30 [Zakim]
- +kliehm
- 15:09:38 [oedipus]
- Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
- 15:09:39 [richardschwerdtfe]
- scribe: Rich
- 15:09:49 [oedipus]
- action-59?
- 15:09:49 [trackbot]
- ACTION-59 -- Michael(tm) Smith to check into making it possible for any HTML WG member to post to the a11y TF list -- due 2010-09-16 -- OPEN
- 15:09:49 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/59
- 15:09:52 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Topic: Action 59
- 15:09:59 [MikeSmith]
- have not done that yet
- 15:10:43 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Mike: the only way to do this is to manually add the address of everybody from the HTML working group to the accept list of the accessibility task force mailing list
- 15:10:56 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Mike: this means that anyone from the HTML working group wants to be able to post
- 15:11:12 [richardschwerdtfe]
- MikeC: We should add people on request only
- 15:11:24 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Mike: We can add case by case
- 15:12:04 [oedipus]
- it came up in several bug comments - charter currently says use public-pfwg-comments which is for PF deliverables
- 15:12:05 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: We would not like to clutter up the PF comments list with discussion
- 15:12:23 [richardschwerdtfe]
- MikeC: we could make this a world writable list
- 15:12:45 [richardschwerdtfe]
- oedipus: there were people commenting on people with disabilities and their needs
- 15:13:11 [richardschwerdtfe]
- oedipus: Paul Cotton made a comment on behalf of the chairs that they would like a public list
- 15:13:58 [richardschwerdtfe]
- John: the real problem as Gregory states is that we are getting this traffic on bugzilla
- 15:14:03 [MikeSmith]
- did we rule out the public-html-comments list already?
- 15:14:09 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Rich: agrees it is out of hand
- 15:14:36 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Topic: do we want bugzilla output go to the list?
- 15:14:46 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Topic: Actions
- 15:14:56 [MichaelC]
- close action-59
- 15:14:56 [trackbot]
- ACTION-59 Check into making it possible for any HTML WG member to post to the a11y TF list closed
- 15:15:05 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Topic: Action 60
- 15:15:09 [oedipus]
- action-60?
- 15:15:09 [trackbot]
- ACTION-60 -- Sean Hayes to map WACG A, AA, and AAA against our checklist -- due 2010-09-22 -- OPEN
- 15:15:09 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/60
- 15:15:16 [MichaelC]
- close action-60
- 15:15:16 [trackbot]
- ACTION-60 Map WACG A, AA, and AAA against our checklist closed
- 15:15:26 [oedipus]
- action-62?
- 15:15:26 [trackbot]
- ACTION-62 -- Gregory Rosmaita to - prepare detailed bugs against accesskey in HTML5, bugs seeking restoration of elements of accesskey from HTML4 that work and are deployed; will identify clearly whether bug refers to HTML4 or HTML5; in preparation for preparing spec ready text for accesskey; will tease out the issues pertaining to @tabindex and COMMAND element -- due 2010-09-23 -- OPEN
- 15:15:26 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/62
- 15:15:27 [richardschwerdtfe]
- RESOLUTION: Action 60 closed
- 15:15:33 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Topic: Action 62
- 15:15:40 [MichaelC]
- close action-62
- 15:15:40 [trackbot]
- ACTION-62 - prepare detailed bugs against accesskey in HTML5, bugs seeking restoration of elements of accesskey from HTML4 that work and are deployed; will identify clearly whether bug refers to HTML4 or HTML5; in preparation for preparing spec ready text for accesskey; will tease out the issues pertaining to @tabindex and COMMAND element closed
- 15:15:43 [richardschwerdtfe]
- RESOLUTION: Action 62 closed
- 15:15:55 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Topic: Action 63 on Silvia
- 15:16:07 [MichaelC]
- close action-63
- 15:16:07 [trackbot]
- ACTION-63 Create a bug on Content navigation by content structure closed
- 15:16:10 [MichaelC]
- close action-64
- 15:16:10 [trackbot]
- ACTION-64 File a bug on HTML 5 for Content Navigation by Content Structure due 20101001 closed
- 15:16:13 [richardschwerdtfe]
- RESOLUTION: Action 63 closed
- 15:16:15 [oedipus]
- action-65
- 15:16:20 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Topic: Action 65
- 15:16:21 [oedipus]
- action-65?
- 15:16:21 [trackbot]
- ACTION-65 -- Judy Brewer to will review threads on getting spec text in -- due 2010-10-06 -- OPEN
- 15:16:21 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/65
- 15:16:32 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Mike: I will tag those all as media
- 15:16:39 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Topic: How to handle mail?
- 15:17:01 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Janina: Do we want bugzilla to continue to go to the html task force mailing list
- 15:17:20 [richardschwerdtfe]
- oedipus: I think it is a good thing
- 15:17:50 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Janina: should we post bugzilla reports to a different list other than the task force
- 15:18:09 [oedipus]
- agree with JF -- there are too many HTML5-oriented lists already
- 15:18:17 [richardschwerdtfe]
- jfoliot: too many lists
- 15:18:49 [richardschwerdtfe]
- RESOLUTION: No We do not want to take bugzilla output off the html accessibility task force list
- 15:19:04 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 15:19:20 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Topic: What to do with public comments that we can engage in discussions?
- 15:19:33 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: what to do to prevent from being burried?
- 15:20:25 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Rich: how about a phone call instead of thousandes of one and two sentence posts?
- 15:20:41 [JF]
- +1 to MichaelC's idea
- 15:21:03 [richardschwerdtfe]
- michaelC: we can tie the back end database to the HTML working group but we would lose our walled garden
- 15:21:28 [richardschwerdtfe]
- JF: who do we want to open this to?
- 15:21:41 [richardschwerdtfe]
- cynthia: We do not want to open it up to the world
- 15:22:11 [richardschwerdtfe]
- michaelC: If we take the approach I suggested we open it up our walled garden to the entire HTML working group list
- 15:22:27 [richardschwerdtfe]
- oedipus: I think the most vocal people have been added
- 15:22:37 [richardschwerdtfe]
- cynthia: They can just ask to be added
- 15:23:08 [richardschwerdtfe]
- JF: Benjamin Hawkes Louis and Shelly Powers are interested. BHL has been added
- 15:23:26 [richardschwerdtfe]
- JF: Either you are member of the working group or you are not
- 15:23:39 [richardschwerdtfe]
- RRSAgent: make log member
- 15:23:50 [richardschwerdtfe]
- RRSAgent make log world
- 15:24:35 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: we want to say why we want a separate list. It is not to exclude people but to simply manage the traffic
- 15:24:52 [richardschwerdtfe]
- RRSAgent, make log world
- 15:24:57 [MikeSmith]
- good by me
- 15:25:12 [oedipus]
- plus 1
- 15:25:55 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: without a better suggesion we will just be repeating ourselves
- 15:26:08 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Topic: TPAC 2010
- 15:26:42 [kliehm]
- I'll be at TPAC
- 15:26:44 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: a fair amount of interest about doing something about our issues such as Thurs and Friday when they talk about media issues
- 15:27:06 [kliehm]
- Alas only November 3-5.
- 15:27:09 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: of the group here who will be at TPAC?
- 15:27:18 [JF]
- <crickets>
- 15:27:38 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: Michael, Martin, Cynthia, Janina
- 15:28:09 [richardschwerdtfe]
- kliehm: I would like to have a talk on canvas 3D accessibility in a lightning talk
- 15:28:22 [richardschwerdtfe]
- michaelc: are you referring to the plenary day?
- 15:28:47 [richardschwerdtfe]
- kliehm: who would like to be in the lightning talk?
- 15:29:15 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 15:29:17 [richardschwerdtfe]
- michaelc: lightning talks are like 2-3 minutes
- 15:29:46 [richardschwerdtfe]
- michaelc: it is a great opportunity if you can compress it into this time
- 15:29:58 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 15:30:06 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: we could wet the interest in the plenary and discuss Thursday and Friday
- 15:30:17 [oedipus]
- Chair: Janina_Sajka
- 15:30:28 [richardschwerdtfe]
- cynthia: should be able to get over passport issues
- 15:30:47 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: anyone else?
- 15:30:55 [richardschwerdtfe]
- oedipus: I will attend virtually
- 15:31:09 [richardschwerdtfe]
- oedipus: I have Mike Smith's skype address
- 15:31:39 [richardschwerdtfe]
- Topic: longdesc
- 15:31:48 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: I would like this to be short
- 15:32:12 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: we want to ask for a reconsideration or a protest
- 15:32:30 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: the sentiment is that this is not a done deal.
- 15:32:45 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: there are some proposals on the table in terms of HTML 5
- 15:33:15 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: I am aware that in PF and the Birmingham Face to Face is that we could do an aria based describedby pointing to the URI
- 15:33:37 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: We are looking at a 2.0 or taking a short list of issues for ARIA 1.1.
- 15:33:48 [oedipus]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Talk:Verbose_desc_reqs HTML WG Bug 10853: HTML5 lacks a verbose description mechanism: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10853
- 15:34:01 [oedipus]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs
- 15:34:03 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: we have two issues we could do in ARIA 1.1
- 15:34:11 [oedipus]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Talk:Verbose_desc_reqs
- 15:34:14 [oedipus]
- HTML WG Bug 10853: HTML5 lacks a verbose description mechanism: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10853
- 15:34:15 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: this is host language agnostic
- 15:34:37 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: let's throw out some ideas
- 15:35:13 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: let's bring longdesc back now that we have meat our October 31 deadline
- 15:35:24 [richardschwerdtfe]
- oedipus: I have opened bug 10853
- 15:35:26 [JF]
- +q
- 15:36:00 [richardschwerdtfe]
- oedipus: we could put in a native describedby
- 15:36:33 [oedipus]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs
- 15:36:54 [oedipus]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs#Satisfying_These_Requirements_for_HTML5
- 15:37:15 [richardschwerdtfe]
- cynthia: do we want a mechanism like this to be around?
- 15:37:18 [oedipus]
- GJR says we addressed this over a year and a half ago - it is the HTML WG's failure to accomodate our requests/requirements
- 15:37:41 [richardschwerdtfe]
- janina: there seems to be a lot of interest around to keep it
- 15:38:03 [oedipus]
- q+ to say that politically, we can't allow chairs to simply remove something previously added for a11y without them proposing an alternate mechanism
- 15:38:05 [oedipus]
- q?
- 15:38:09 [oedipus]
- ack JF
- 15:38:16 [janina]
- q?
- 15:38:17 [richardschwerdtfe]
- cynthia: I don't know there is a consensus to escalate a bug
- 15:38:29 [richardschwerdtfe]
- JF: I don't think is the most important thing we need to do
- 15:38:32 [JF]
- http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/research/ld.html
- 15:38:55 [richardschwerdtfe]
- JF: Laura Carlson has been continuing to post the research but did get frustrated
- 15:39:09 [richardschwerdtfe]
- JF: we all know the list
- 15:39:13 [richardschwerdtfe]
- q+
- 15:39:31 [richardschwerdtfe]
- JF: we believe that we have to address backward compatibility
- 15:39:46 [oedipus]
- ack oe
- 15:39:46 [Zakim]
- oedipus, you wanted to say that politically, we can't allow chairs to simply remove something previously added for a11y without them proposing an alternate mechanism
- 15:39:49 [richardschwerdtfe]
- cynthia: I want to make sure we have concensus going forward
- 15:39:59 [MikeSmith]
- q?
- 15:40:19 [JF]
- +1 to GJR
- 15:40:19 [richardschwerdtfe]
- oedipus: this is a bigger issue than just one element
- 15:40:26 [MikeSmith]
- janina, note richardschwerdtfe on the queue
- 15:42:18 [oedipus]
- RS: this is a general strategy discussion -- concerned about wasting cycles adding elements into HTML where ARIA already suffices; we can address this issue -- describedby can be discussed out-of-context -- so many other things to work on -- wouldn't open new bugs for things supported by ARIA -- if can get 1.0 out the door, doing ARIA 1.1 would be place for changes/development
- 15:42:32 [JF]
- will ARIA 1.1 be ready by the time HTML5 reaches CR?
- 15:42:45 [oedipus]
- TOPIC: Follow-Up on CANVAS
- 15:42:54 [richardschwerdtfe]
- topic: canvas
- 15:43:03 [oedipus]
- JS: HTML chairs have taken up our resolution and chaals' --
- 15:43:17 [oedipus]
- JS: how to rephrase or drop or synthesize
- 15:43:25 [oedipus]
- JS: adom is history - so no queries on adom
- 15:43:30 [oedipus]
- CS: adom is in the spec
- 15:43:44 [oedipus]
- CS: adom in spec and in major UA
- 15:44:07 [oedipus]
- RS: when have DOM have to have 1-to-1 mapping to user interface
- 15:44:25 [oedipus]
- RS: second option: @nonav -- if only way subtree is used, then we are done
- 15:44:36 [oedipus]
- CS: @nonav is nice to have but not a priority
- 15:44:41 [oedipus]
- RS: think we got what we want
- 15:45:39 [oedipus]
- RS: third issue: what to do with chaals' proposal - whoever drives this, has to be prepared to be in month-long (at least) fight with editor on getting IMAP in CANVAS - gives shortcuts for automatic drawing, but question worth effort - does anyone want to take on the battle?
- 15:45:51 [oedipus]
- CS: anyone talked to chaals?
- 15:45:56 [oedipus]
- RS: asked him to drive through
- 15:46:06 [oedipus]
- RS: would leave to JS and MS to assign
- 15:46:27 [oedipus]
- JS: appropriate for him to drive his canvas proposal
- 15:46:54 [oedipus]
- JS: concern is more precise: the chairs drafted set of 5 questions with which to run a survey - got sense they are not the right 5 questions
- 15:47:16 [oedipus]
- JS: mechanism will be a series of questions -- need to ensure the right questions are asked -- will start from survey
- 15:47:41 [oedipus]
- CS: questions are fine - number 4 is counter-proposal to number 1
- 15:47:57 [oedipus]
- CS: 1 question is "get rid of adom?" -- we should give a resounding NO
- 15:48:32 [oedipus]
- RS: no problem with @nonav being dropped; hixie's suggestions do nothing to address issue; is a counter-proposal
- 15:49:06 [oedipus]
- RS: concern: frankO and i work on caret and select tracking - doesn't need to be put to vote yet -- need to work out RTE issues
- 15:49:17 [oedipus]
- RS: dave singer agreed -- putting up for vote bad idea
- 15:49:24 [oedipus]
- CS: too early to vote on 1
- 15:49:49 [oedipus]
- q+
- 15:50:07 [oedipus]
- CS: ton of work to be done -- if say too early, chairs will say too late -- how to convince -- what is timeline?
- 15:50:42 [oedipus]
- RS: have that issue, but hixie asked us to create 2 more things that obfuscate issue -- want magnification support, waiting on james graham to respond
- 15:50:49 [oedipus]
- RS: hixie has muddied the waters
- 15:50:57 [oedipus]
- CS: chairs trying to clear air, rather than water
- 15:51:07 [oedipus]
- CS: too early to vote on magnification, when can we?
- 15:51:18 [oedipus]
- RS: can't push a canvas RTE in a week
- 15:51:25 [oedipus]
- CS: when can it be turned out?
- 15:51:32 [oedipus]
- RS: before the end of the year
- 15:51:39 [oedipus]
- ack rich
- 15:51:52 [oedipus]
- CS: sounds like answer is december 2010
- 15:52:07 [oedipus]
- RS: problem: more than RTE we need to look at -- have to support RTE and magnification
- 15:52:29 [oedipus]
- RS: solves problem of not having adom and nonav discussion
- 15:53:14 [oedipus]
- CS: tactically, vote on adom nonav, imap but not number 4 (hixie's suggestion)
- 15:53:20 [oedipus]
- JS: thanks for clarity CS
- 15:53:26 [oedipus]
- q?
- 15:53:45 [oedipus]
- CS: rich, work on magnification and caret issues -- if chaals wants to push his issue that's up to him
- 15:54:00 [oedipus]
- RS: hixie's suggestion has nothing to do with magnification - what is it a counterproposal for?
- 15:54:19 [oedipus]
- CS: deals with sub-issue in number 1 about cursor tracking -- bad counter proposal, but not separate issue
- 15:54:26 [oedipus]
- RS: go for it
- 15:55:02 [oedipus]
- ack oe
- 15:56:01 [oedipus]
- GJR: wonders about the form of the WBS survey - lately been negative feedback only
- 15:56:16 [JF]
- +q
- 15:56:45 [Zakim]
- -Cynthia_Shelly
- 15:57:02 [oedipus]
- MS: don't agree with GJR - if all one is doing is supporting doesn't carry weight - surveys not intended to be vote collections - supposed to contain set of compelling arguements and objections to any given proposal
- 15:58:16 [oedipus]
- MS: not intended to quash legitimate response - intended to try and get people to consider issues as thoughtfully as possible
- 15:58:23 [oedipus]
- JF: how did chairs decide on this?
- 15:58:46 [oedipus]
- MS: if you have something to add, can say "proposal is good" and add comments -- chairs use this for decisions
- 15:58:57 [oedipus]
- JF: if 2 proposals how presented to chairs?
- 15:59:29 [oedipus]
- JF: no measure of consensus in HTML WG --
- 15:59:42 [oedipus]
- MS: don't accept that characterization by any means
- 15:59:57 [oedipus]
- MS: chairs not evaluating popularity but strenghth of argument
- 16:00:27 [oedipus]
- MS: what they are doing is subjective, but they have been put into position to adjudicate decisions for group - only way HTML WG has found for consensus-building
- 16:01:29 [oedipus]
- MS: limitations to survey, agreed, but not only means chairs are using -- if read decisions, then you will see that
- 16:01:37 [oedipus]
- JF: rather see call for consensus
- 16:01:45 [oedipus]
- JF: a lot of polls that want negative feedback
- 16:02:15 [oedipus]
- JS: happy to communicate concern about survey decision policy working for best result of a11y in HTML5
- 16:02:49 [oedipus]
- JS: want all to know that we have regular communications with HTML chairs -- facillitators and domain leads meet regularly - topic on current agenda is possible enhancements to decision making
- 16:03:08 [oedipus]
- GJR: my concern is why didn't the chairs consider the formal advice given by PFWG?
- 16:03:31 [oedipus]
- s/GJR: my concern is why didn't the chairs consider the formal advice given by PFWG?/GJR: my concern is why didn't the chairs consider the formal advice given by PFWG on longdesc in their decision?/
- 16:04:40 [oedipus]
- [ADJOURNED]
- 16:04:42 [Zakim]
- -kliehm
- 16:04:45 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Cooper
- 16:04:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 16:04:47 [Zakim]
- -Janina_Sajka
- 16:04:47 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, drop Mike
- 16:04:49 [Zakim]
- Mike is being disconnected
- 16:04:49 [Zakim]
- -Mike
- 16:04:51 [Zakim]
- -Gregory_Rosmaita
- 16:05:01 [oedipus]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 16:05:01 [janina]
- janina has left #html-a11y
- 16:05:03 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Everett_Zufelt, John_Foliot, Rich
- 16:05:09 [Zakim]
- -Everett_Zufelt
- 16:05:20 [oedipus]
- zakim, please part
- 16:05:20 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were John_Foliot, Janina, Gregory_Rosmaita, Janina.a, Michael_Cooper, +49.699.435.aaaa, Janina_Sajka, kliehm, Everett_Zufelt, Mike, Rich,
- 16:05:20 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #html-a11y
- 16:05:23 [Zakim]
- ... Cynthia_Shelly
- 16:05:28 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 16:07:09 [oedipus]
- present- +49.699.435.aaaa
- 16:07:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 16:09:18 [oedipus]
- present- [+49.699.435.aaaa]
- 16:09:25 [oedipus]
- present- Janina.a
- 16:09:33 [oedipus]
- present+ Janina_Sajka
- 16:09:37 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 16:10:06 [oedipus]
- present+ Cynthia_Shelly
- 16:10:08 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 16:11:21 [oedipus]
- i/Mike: the only way to do this is to manually/scribenick: richardschwerdtfe/
- 16:11:23 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 16:12:20 [oedipus]
- i/JS: HTML chairs have taken up our resolution and chaals' --/scribenick: oedipus/
- 16:12:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 16:20:27 [oedipus]
- s/I have opened bug 10853/I have opened bug 10853 on the generic concept of a verbose descriptor/
- 16:20:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
- 16:23:21 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items