IRC log of rdb2rdf on 2010-10-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:54:06 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
15:54:06 [RRSAgent]
logging to
15:54:08 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:54:08 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rdb2rdf
15:54:10 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 7322733
15:54:10 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
15:54:11 [trackbot]
Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:54:11 [trackbot]
Date: 05 October 2010
15:54:17 [mhausenblas]
15:54:31 [mhausenblas]
Chair: Michael
15:57:59 [soeren]
soeren has joined #RDB2RDF
15:58:04 [betehess]
betehess has joined #RDB2RDF
15:58:36 [Angela]
Angela has joined #RDB2RDF
15:59:05 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:59:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
15:59:13 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:59:29 [Ashok]
Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
15:59:57 [Zakim]
SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
16:00:04 [Zakim]
16:00:31 [cygri]
cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:00:35 [Zakim]
+ +49.153.6.aaaa
16:00:44 [cygri]
zakim, /me is with mhausenblas
16:00:44 [Zakim]
+/me; got it
16:00:51 [Zakim]
16:00:56 [cygri]
zakim, cygri is with mhausenblas
16:00:56 [Zakim]
+cygri; got it
16:00:58 [Zakim]
+ +1.760.705.aabb
16:01:02 [Zakim]
16:01:06 [Zakim]
16:01:11 [boris]
boris has joined #rdb2rdf
16:01:12 [soeren]
zakim, +??P7 is soeren
16:01:12 [Zakim]
sorry, soeren, I do not recognize a party named '+??P7'
16:01:20 [hhalpin]
Zakim, what's the code?
16:01:20 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7322733 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.203.318.0479), hhalpin
16:01:21 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aaaa is boris
16:01:22 [Zakim]
+boris; got it
16:01:34 [Zakim]
+ +1.781.273.aacc
16:01:52 [MacTed]
Zakim, aacc is OpenLink_Software
16:01:52 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software; got it
16:01:52 [MacTed]
zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:01:53 [Zakim]
+MacTed; got it
16:01:54 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
16:01:54 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
16:01:59 [MacTed]
Zakim, who's noisy?
16:02:06 [Zakim]
16:02:09 [Souri]
Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:02:10 [Zakim]
MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ashok_Malhotra (9%), +1.760.705.aabb (33%)
16:02:45 [Zakim]
16:03:00 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
16:03:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see mhausenblas, boris, ??P7, +1.760.705.aabb, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, MacTed (muted), Souri, PatH
16:03:02 [Zakim]
mhausenblas has mhausenblas, /me, cygri
16:03:04 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Souri, boris, cygri, Ashok, Angela, betehess, soeren, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, hhalpin, MacTed, LeeF, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
16:03:13 [Souri]
Hi Pat
16:03:15 [Zakim]
16:03:21 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, ??P7 is soeren
16:03:21 [Zakim]
+soeren; got it
16:03:22 [hhalpin]
Zakim, ??P17 is hhalpin
16:03:22 [Zakim]
+hhalpin; got it
16:03:44 [hhalpin]
Zakim, mute me
16:03:44 [Zakim]
hhalpin should now be muted
16:03:46 [Angela]
maybe is me...i am using gmail...
16:04:08 [juansequeda]
juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf
16:04:32 [Seema]
Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:04:35 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aabb is Angela
16:04:35 [Zakim]
+Angela; got it
16:04:47 [nunolopes]
nunolopes has joined #RDB2RDF
16:05:00 [nunolopes]
Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas
16:05:00 [Zakim]
+nunolopes; got it
16:05:14 [Zakim]
+ +1.603.897.aadd
16:05:18 [mhausenblas]
scribenick: nunolopes
16:05:25 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, aadd is Seema
16:05:25 [Zakim]
+Seema; got it
16:05:33 [mhausenblas]
juansequeda shall we wait for you?
16:06:00 [juansequeda]
16:06:15 [nunolopes]
TOPIC: admin
16:06:16 [mhausenblas]
PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting, see
16:06:21 [pathayes]
pathayes has joined #rdb2rdf
16:06:36 [nunolopes]
RESOLVED: minutes of last meeting approved
16:06:53 [mhausenblas]
Review open actions, see
16:07:13 [mhausenblas]
16:07:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-73 -- Michael Hausenblas to clean up the actions -- due 2010-10-05 -- OPEN
16:07:13 [trackbot]
16:07:43 [nunolopes]
TOPIC: FPWD of mapping language
16:07:49 [mhausenblas]
16:08:00 [hhalpin]
16:08:10 [Seema] came out inline..i have sent you the document..can you email it as an attachment
16:08:24 [hhalpin]
just wondering if we want to put that in W3C CVS space and do a pubrules check.
16:08:33 [nunolopes]
Souri: there is a new version of the draft, sent by seema
16:08:34 [hhalpin]
that would stop the e-mail problems :)
16:08:56 [nunolopes]
Souri: we can work on this version for now
16:09:02 [hhalpin]
Zakim, unmute me
16:09:02 [Zakim]
hhalpin should no longer be muted
16:09:23 [nunolopes]
Souri: we still didn't manage to get W3C CVS working
16:09:38 [nunolopes]
… we used a template for the document
16:09:49 [mhausenblas]
ack hhalpin
16:10:07 [nunolopes]
hhalpin: I can help you to put it online after the telco
16:10:29 [juansequeda]
hhalpin: anyway you can contact the w3c operator so they can connect me to the call? That is how I usually do it but I guess they are on a coffee break?
16:10:54 [hhalpin]
Zakim, mute me
16:10:54 [Zakim]
hhalpin should now be muted
16:10:54 [nunolopes]
mhausenblas: we use the available version for now
16:11:03 [hhalpin]
Juan: what's the issue? voip (skype?) not working?
16:11:04 [mhausenblas]
Michael: use : for the time being
16:11:07 [juansequeda]
16:11:10 [juansequeda]
never works
16:11:39 [nunolopes]
Souri: we have overview and intro sections
16:11:55 [nunolopes]
… R2ML specified using Turtle syntax
16:12:16 [nunolopes]
… instead of calling classMap we called table2triplesMap
16:12:30 [nunolopes]
… de point is to simplify for the reader
16:12:52 [nunolopes]
… if table can be mapped to logical triples this would be a better name
16:13:15 [Zakim]
16:13:34 [juansequeda]
16:13:38 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, ??P0 is juansequeda
16:13:38 [Zakim]
+juansequeda; got it
16:13:43 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
16:13:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see mhausenblas, boris, soeren, Angela (muted), Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, MacTed (muted), Souri, PatH, hhalpin (muted), Seema, juansequeda
16:13:47 [Zakim]
mhausenblas has mhausenblas, /me, cygri, nunolopes
16:13:49 [Zakim]
On IRC I see pathayes, nunolopes, Seema, juansequeda, Souri, boris, cygri, Ashok, Angela, betehess, soeren, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, hhalpin, MacTed, LeeF, iv_an_ru, trackbot,
16:13:52 [Zakim]
... ericP
16:14:15 [nunolopes]
… instead of calling things as instanceId what we are getting is subjects and property object pairs (?)
16:14:38 [cygri]
mhausenblas, I confused zakim by telling him that "/me" is with you ... does this need to be fixed?
16:14:48 [mhausenblas]
no worries ;)
16:15:21 [mhausenblas]
16:15:46 [nunolopes]
… this latest version has an updated example
16:15:59 [nunolopes]
...Section 3.1
16:16:28 [nunolopes]
mhausenblas: before that, I asked to define the intended audience for the doc, is that done?
16:16:35 [nunolopes]
Souri: no, not yet
16:17:21 [nunolopes]
… we created a class hiearchy
16:17:28 [nunolopes]
… rdfTermMapClass
16:17:58 [nunolopes]
…. with subclasses for IRI, bnode, literal
16:18:19 [nunolopes]
… we defined all the properties that are relevent in the rdfTermMap
16:18:44 [nunolopes]
… 3.1.1 rr:property
16:18:57 [nunolopes]
… identifies the property name that will be used
16:19:07 [mhausenblas]
16:19:26 [nunolopes]
…. rr:column gives us the database column name
16:20:10 [nunolopes]
… rr:inverseExpression
16:20:53 [nunolopes]
mhausenblas: maybe there is no need to go through all the classes and properties
16:21:07 [nunolopes]
Souri: the properties are important to understand section 3.3
16:21:38 [hhalpin]
Zakim, unmute me
16:21:38 [Zakim]
hhalpin should no longer be muted
16:21:53 [nunolopes]
mhausenblas: maybe it's more productive to decide how to do with the document
16:22:18 [hhalpin]
Zakim, mute me
16:22:18 [Zakim]
hhalpin should now be muted
16:22:22 [nunolopes]
hhalpin: we can keep going though the document and then work on mailing list
16:22:31 [hhalpin]
just noting we can ask for FPWD next week.
16:22:52 [nunolopes]
Souri: specifies the datatype of a literal
16:23:07 [nunolopes]
… similar for language tag in
16:23:40 [nunolopes]
… rr:columnGraph you can assing a particular triple to a specific graph
16:23:54 [nunolopes]
… could also allow multiple graphs
16:24:00 [nunolopes]
…. rr:constantValue
16:24:14 [nunolopes]
… for all the rows, the value of that property shoudl be a constant
16:24:32 [nunolopes]
… rr:isRDFType says there could be many triples as IRI
16:24:47 [nunolopes]
… some of then are treated as rdf:type
16:25:12 [nunolopes]
… rr:isComputed allows the property name to be defined by another column
16:25:21 [nunolopes]
… instead of being a constan
16:25:31 [nunolopes]
… 3.2 is simple
16:25:52 [nunolopes]
… Main section is 3.3 Table to triplesMap
16:26:00 [nunolopes]
… should be renamed to triplesMap
16:26:14 [nunolopes]
… tells how to formulate the triples for a particular row
16:26:47 [nunolopes]
… it's a rdfs:class represented by an SQL query
16:26:59 [nunolopes]
??: what are the elements of this class?
16:27:13 [hhalpin]
an instance of the class is a particular mapping, correct?
16:27:26 [nunolopes]
Souri: this is actually a description of a class,
16:27:29 [cygri]
16:27:40 [nunolopes]
hhalpin: what is it, a piece of text, … ?
16:28:03 [nunolopes]
Souri: example, you have a classs and you want to create a mapping object that belongs to the class
16:28:15 [nunolopes]
… this needs to have a set of properties inside
16:28:27 [nunolopes]
… how to get subject, prop, object
16:28:39 [nunolopes]
… on sec 3.3.1 there is an example
16:28:54 [cygri]
16:29:02 [nunolopes]
… the idea is that the obejct is a description of the class
16:29:24 [nunolopes]
… describes how we go about describing the classes
16:29:48 [nunolopes]
… Section 3.3.1
16:30:04 [nunolopes]
… rr:logicalTable can be a query or a name of a table
16:30:12 [nunolopes]
… cardinality must be 1
16:30:36 [nunolopes]
… rr:class : the instances will be generated as members of this class
16:30:49 [nunolopes]
… can be optional, but there are some implications
16:31:22 [nunolopes]
… rr:tableGraphMap property : at the logical table level, all the triples that would be generated should belong to the specified named graph
16:32:06 [nunolopes]
… rr:subjectMap and rr:propertyObjectMap are the fundamental properties
16:32:20 [nunolopes]
… for each row needs a subject
16:32:42 [nunolopes]
… all the triples for a particular row should be generated in the following way
16:33:22 [nunolopes]
… rr:propertyObjectMap is a pair propNameURI and propValue
16:33:39 [nunolopes]
… rr:computedPropertyMap if propName is not a constant
16:34:16 [nunolopes]
… maybe with some conversion specifications
16:34:33 [nunolopes]
… rr:rowGraphPropertyMap specifies destination graph for all triples generated for a particular row
16:35:09 [nunolopes]
… rr:foreignKeyMap needs a key for the property name
16:35:18 [nunolopes]
… and what is the join condition
16:35:25 [mhausenblas]
q+ to ask about structure
16:35:52 [nunolopes]
… Section 3.4
16:36:06 [nunolopes]
… rr:ForeignKey that specifies the key
16:36:34 [nunolopes]
16:36:34 [nunolopes]
16:36:39 [nunolopes]
16:36:49 [nunolopes]
… going to examples section
16:37:21 [nunolopes]
… mapping specification for tables in Appendix B.2
16:37:46 [nunolopes]
… specification for the DEPT table
16:39:50 [nunolopes]
… this examples shows that we get 4 triples from one row
16:40:02 [nunolopes]
… in the rr:propertyObjectMap properties
16:41:02 [nunolopes]
… first is a literal of type positive integer
16:41:30 [nunolopes]
mhausenblas: why is the inderection with deptno and deptid?
16:42:14 [nunolopes]
Souri: value of bnode will be dept+100
16:42:19 [nunolopes]
… for example
16:42:35 [nunolopes]
mhausenblas: but why deptId and deptNo?
16:43:21 [nunolopes]
Souri: deptno is actually a number and you need a uri or bnode to use as identifier
16:44:13 [nunolopes]
… the generated triple for the prop will dept100
16:45:00 [nunolopes]
mhausenblas: what would happen if there was no deptNo in the table (?)
16:45:19 [juansequeda]
deptId = "dept"+ deptno
16:45:29 [betehess]
you mean that || is the concatenation operator over strings?
16:45:36 [juansequeda]
deptID = "dept"+100 = dept100
16:45:45 [MacTed]
Zakim, unmute me
16:45:45 [Zakim]
MacTed should no longer be muted
16:45:49 [juansequeda]
hence, deptID != deptno
16:46:14 [Seema]
if there was no deptNo in the table..we would probably use some other column of the underlying table to generate the URI
16:46:17 [nunolopes]
MacTed: one of the problems is that the same string is used in multiple places
16:46:46 [nunolopes]
Souri: we can change dept to department in the string expression
16:47:03 [MacTed]
Zakim, unmute me
16:47:03 [Zakim]
MacTed was not muted, MacTed
16:47:07 [MacTed]
Zakim, mute me
16:47:07 [Zakim]
MacTed should now be muted
16:47:24 [nunolopes]
… the point is that we are trying to generate an id for the row
16:47:37 [nunolopes]
… to be identified with the subject
16:47:50 [nunolopes]
mhausenblas: this is just because the subject is a bnode
16:48:06 [nunolopes]
… why should we have instructions for the label of the bnode?
16:48:19 [nunolopes]
… and not auto generated
16:48:37 [mhausenblas]
ack me
16:48:37 [Zakim]
mhausenblas, you wanted to ask about structure
16:48:39 [nunolopes]
Souri: it's a matter of convinience for readability of bnodes
16:49:08 [nunolopes]
mhausenblas: regarding structure of document, i'm missing something to group the classes and props
16:49:30 [nunolopes]
RRSAgent: draft minutes
16:49:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate nunolopes
16:49:54 [hhalpin]
16:50:00 [nunolopes]
cygri: so far the focus was on writing what it means
16:50:10 [nunolopes]
… in the next few days this will be a focus of ours
16:50:48 [nunolopes]
… better structure than just a listing of properties is better
16:51:54 [mhausenblas]
ack hhalpin
16:52:48 [nunolopes]
hhalpin: all the action occurs inside literal values ?
16:52:59 [nunolopes]
Souri: no, not necessarily
16:53:13 [nunolopes]
hhalpin: this is close to d2rq?
16:53:54 [hhalpin]
that's SQL
16:54:06 [nunolopes]
??: looking at example B2.2 the quoted text is SQL but for RDF this is free text
16:54:21 [nunolopes]
… should I think of it as a string or something that is parsable?
16:54:31 [nunolopes]
… if so should the syntax be part of the spec/
16:54:41 [nunolopes]
Souri: no the syntax is not part of the spec
16:54:55 [nunolopes]
16:55:37 [nunolopes]
pathayes: we should mention that it must be valid SQL
16:55:43 [nunolopes]
Souri: yes
16:55:57 [nunolopes]
pathayes: the difference to D2Rq?
16:56:09 [nunolopes]
cygri: here you can write a complete SQL query
16:56:39 [nunolopes]
… while in D2RQ you have to split the query in parts and distribuite it for the specific part
16:56:55 [nunolopes]
Souri: in D2R we have a vocabulary
16:57:16 [nunolopes]
… here we can write the complete string
16:57:34 [nunolopes]
mhausenblas: next steps
16:57:53 [nunolopes]
… next try to sort out CVS issues
16:58:18 [nunolopes]
…. please send edits to the list so we can publish by next week?
16:58:39 [nunolopes]
cygri: we need some input to decide if we have achieved FPWD status
16:58:51 [nunolopes]
mhausenblas: I would be fine with the updates you do during this week
16:59:15 [nunolopes]
cygri: can you write a short email to the list with some points on what to be covered?
16:59:48 [nunolopes]
ericP: right now all the examples are in the appendix
16:59:49 [mhausenblas]
ACTION: Hausenblas to sum up requirements for FPWD and send to editors and list
16:59:49 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-74 - Sum up requirements for FPWD and send to editors and list [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2010-10-12].
17:00:26 [Zakim]
17:00:34 [nunolopes]
… everyone in the WG should look at the syntax and make sure it is readble
17:01:03 [nunolopes]
juansequeda: for the logical table property why not create a ???
17:01:07 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:01:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
17:01:22 [hhalpin]
s/???/SQL expression data-type
17:02:24 [nunolopes]
mhausenblas: i'll send the requirement right away, you can work until Friday and then I can work on the pub rules
17:02:50 [nunolopes]
… then if the group is ok with that we can have a formal resolution next week
17:03:04 [Zakim]
17:03:05 [Zakim]
17:03:05 [Zakim]
17:03:06 [mhausenblas]
17:03:07 [Zakim]
17:03:07 [Zakim]
17:03:07 [nunolopes]
RRSAgent: draft minutes
17:03:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate nunolopes
17:03:08 [Zakim]
17:03:08 [Zakim]
17:03:32 [Zakim]
17:03:45 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:03:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
17:05:47 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, list attendees
17:05:47 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been mhausenblas, +49.153.6.aaaa, /me, cygri, +1.760.705.aabb, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, boris, +1.781.273.aacc, MacTed, Souri, PatH, soeren,
17:05:50 [Zakim]
... hhalpin, Angela, nunolopes, +1.603.897.aadd, Seema, juansequeda
17:07:44 [Zakim]
17:07:45 [hhalpin]
17:08:00 [mhausenblas]
ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
17:08:04 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:08:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
17:08:11 [hhalpin]
export CVS_RSH=ssh
17:09:05 [Zakim]
17:11:58 [betehess]
betehess has left #RDB2RDF
17:12:33 [Zakim]
17:12:53 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
17:12:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see mhausenblas, hhalpin
17:12:55 [Zakim]
mhausenblas has mhausenblas, /me, cygri, nunolopes
17:12:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see cygri, Angela, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, hhalpin, MacTed, LeeF, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
17:16:41 [mhausenblas]
17:19:58 [mhausenblas]
17:20:25 [hhalpin]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:20:25 [Zakim]
On the phone I see mhausenblas, hhalpin
17:20:27 [Zakim]
mhausenblas has mhausenblas, /me, cygri, nunolopes
17:25:06 [Zakim]
17:25:07 [Zakim]
17:25:08 [Zakim]
SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
17:25:10 [Zakim]
Attendees were mhausenblas, +49.153.6.aaaa, /me, cygri, +1.760.705.aabb, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, boris, +1.781.273.aacc, MacTed, Souri, PatH, soeren, hhalpin, Angela, nunolopes,
17:25:13 [Zakim]
... +1.603.897.aadd, Seema, juansequeda
18:23:29 [Seema]
Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
18:23:41 [Seema]
harry, are you there ?
18:27:18 [mhausenblas]
Seema, use hhalpin (his nick name) rather than harry
18:27:33 [mhausenblas]
typically this triggers an alert and hhalpin might notice it quicker ;)
18:28:00 [mhausenblas]
Zakim, who's here?
18:28:00 [Zakim]
apparently SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended, mhausenblas
18:28:01 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Seema, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, hhalpin, MacTed, LeeF, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
18:28:41 [mhausenblas]
so, FYI Seema: Richard was able to get access (hence he put it into the CVS)
18:28:47 [mhausenblas]
ok, gotta run now - good luck
18:36:48 [Souri]
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ericP, are you here? I need some help with CVS setup.
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