15:54:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
15:54:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-rdb2rdf-irc
15:54:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:54:08 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdb2rdf
15:54:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
15:54:10 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
15:54:11 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:54:11 <trackbot> Date: 05 October 2010
15:54:17 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Oct/0000.html
15:54:31 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
15:57:59 <soeren> soeren has joined #RDB2RDF
15:58:04 <betehess> betehess has joined #RDB2RDF
15:58:36 <Angela> Angela has joined #RDB2RDF
15:59:05 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:59:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
15:59:13 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:59:29 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
15:59:57 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
16:00:04 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
16:00:31 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:00:35 <Zakim> + +49.153.6.aaaa
16:00:44 <cygri> zakim, /me is with mhausenblas
16:00:44 <Zakim> +/me; got it
16:00:51 <Zakim> +??P7
16:00:56 <cygri> zakim, cygri is with mhausenblas
16:00:56 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
16:00:58 <Zakim> + +1.760.705.aabb
16:01:02 <Zakim> +Alexandre
16:01:06 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
16:01:11 <boris> boris has joined #rdb2rdf
16:01:12 <soeren> zakim, +??P7 is soeren
16:01:12 <Zakim> sorry, soeren, I do not recognize a party named '+??P7'
16:01:20 <hhalpin> Zakim, what's the code?
16:01:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 7322733 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), hhalpin
16:01:21 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is boris 
16:01:22 <Zakim> +boris; got it
16:01:34 <Zakim> + +1.781.273.aacc
16:01:52 <MacTed> Zakim, aacc is OpenLink_Software
16:01:52 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software; got it
16:01:52 <MacTed> zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:01:53 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:01:54 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:01:54 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:01:59 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
16:02:06 <Zakim> +Souri
16:02:09 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:02:10 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ashok_Malhotra (9%), +1.760.705.aabb (33%)
16:02:45 <Zakim> +PatH
16:03:00 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:03:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, boris, ??P7, +1.760.705.aabb, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, MacTed (muted), Souri, PatH
16:03:02 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, /me, cygri
16:03:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see Souri, boris, cygri, Ashok, Angela, betehess, soeren, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, hhalpin, MacTed, LeeF, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
16:03:13 <Souri> Hi Pat
16:03:15 <Zakim> +??P17
16:03:21 <mhausenblas> Zakim, ??P7 is soeren 
16:03:21 <Zakim> +soeren; got it
16:03:22 <hhalpin> Zakim, ??P17 is hhalpin
16:03:22 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
16:03:44 <hhalpin> Zakim, mute me
16:03:44 <Zakim> hhalpin should now be muted
16:03:46 <Angela> maybe is me...i am using gmail...
16:04:08 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf
16:04:32 <Seema> Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:04:35 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aabb is Angela 
16:04:35 <Zakim> +Angela; got it
16:04:47 <nunolopes> nunolopes has joined #RDB2RDF
16:05:00 <nunolopes> Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas
16:05:00 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
16:05:14 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aadd
16:05:18 <mhausenblas> scribenick: nunolopes 
16:05:25 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aadd is Seema 
16:05:25 <Zakim> +Seema; got it
16:05:33 <mhausenblas> juansequeda shall we wait for you?
16:06:00 <juansequeda> ok
16:06:15 <nunolopes> TOPIC: admin
16:06:16 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
16:06:21 <pathayes> pathayes has joined #rdb2rdf
16:06:36 <nunolopes> RESOLVED: minutes of last meeting approved
16:06:53 <mhausenblas> Review open actions, see http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/open
16:07:13 <mhausenblas> ACTION-73?
16:07:13 <trackbot> ACTION-73 -- Michael Hausenblas to clean up the actions -- due 2010-10-05 -- OPEN
16:07:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/73
16:07:43 <nunolopes> TOPIC: FPWD of mapping language
16:07:49 <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Oct/att-0002/rdb2rdf_fpwd.html
16:08:00 <hhalpin> q+
16:08:10 <Seema> yup...it came out inline..i have sent you the document..can you email it as an attachment
16:08:24 <hhalpin> just wondering if we want to put that in W3C CVS space and do a pubrules check.
16:08:33 <nunolopes> Souri: there is a new version of the draft, sent by seema
16:08:34 <hhalpin> that would stop the e-mail problems :)
16:08:56 <nunolopes> Souri: we can work on this version for now
16:09:02 <hhalpin> Zakim, unmute me
16:09:02 <Zakim> hhalpin should no longer be muted
16:09:23 <nunolopes> Souri: we still didn't manage to get W3C CVS working
16:09:38 <nunolopes> … we used a template for the document
16:09:49 <mhausenblas> ack hhalpin 
16:10:07 <nunolopes> hhalpin: I can help you to put it online after the telco
16:10:29 <juansequeda> hhalpin: anyway you can contact the w3c operator so they can connect me to the call? That is how I usually do it but I guess they are on a coffee break?
16:10:54 <hhalpin> Zakim, mute me
16:10:54 <Zakim> hhalpin should now be muted
16:10:54 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: we use the available version for now
16:11:03 <hhalpin> Juan: what's the issue? voip (skype?) not working?
16:11:04 <mhausenblas> Michael: use : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Oct/att-0002/rdb2rdf_fpwd.html for the time being
16:11:07 <juansequeda> voip
16:11:10 <juansequeda> never works
16:11:39 <nunolopes> Souri: we have overview and intro sections
16:11:55 <nunolopes> … R2ML specified using Turtle syntax
16:12:16 <nunolopes> … instead of calling classMap we called table2triplesMap
16:12:30 <nunolopes> … de point is to simplify for the reader
16:12:52 <nunolopes> … if table can be mapped to logical triples this would be a better name
16:13:15 <Zakim> +??P0
16:13:34 <juansequeda> yes
16:13:38 <mhausenblas> Zakim, ??P0 is juansequeda 
16:13:38 <Zakim> +juansequeda; got it
16:13:43 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
16:13:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, boris, soeren, Angela (muted), Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, MacTed (muted), Souri, PatH, hhalpin (muted), Seema, juansequeda
16:13:47 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, /me, cygri, nunolopes
16:13:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see pathayes, nunolopes, Seema, juansequeda, Souri, boris, cygri, Ashok, Angela, betehess, soeren, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, hhalpin, MacTed, LeeF, iv_an_ru, trackbot,
16:13:52 <Zakim> ... ericP
16:14:15 <nunolopes> … instead of calling things as instanceId what we are getting is subjects and property object pairs (?)
16:14:38 <cygri> mhausenblas, I confused zakim by telling him that "/me" is with you ... does this need to be fixed?
16:14:48 <mhausenblas> no worries ;)
16:15:21 <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Oct/att-0004/rdb2rdf_fpwd.html
16:15:46 <nunolopes> … this latest version has an updated example
16:15:59 <nunolopes> ...Section 3.1
16:16:28 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: before that, I asked to define the intended audience for the doc, is that done?
16:16:35 <nunolopes> Souri: no, not yet
16:17:21 <nunolopes> … we created a class hiearchy
16:17:28 <nunolopes> … rdfTermMapClass
16:17:58 <nunolopes> …. with subclasses for IRI, bnode, literal
16:18:19 <nunolopes> … we defined all the properties that are relevent in the rdfTermMap
16:18:44 <nunolopes> … 3.1.1 rr:property
16:18:57 <nunolopes> … identifies the property name that will be used
16:19:07 <mhausenblas> q?
16:19:26 <nunolopes> …. 3.1.1.2 rr:column gives us the database column name
16:20:10 <nunolopes> … 3.1.1.3 rr:inverseExpression
16:20:53 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: maybe there is no need to go through all the classes and properties
16:21:07 <nunolopes> Souri:  the properties are important to understand section 3.3
16:21:38 <hhalpin> Zakim, unmute me
16:21:38 <Zakim> hhalpin should no longer be muted
16:21:53 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: maybe it's more productive to decide how to do with the document
16:22:18 <hhalpin> Zakim, mute me
16:22:18 <Zakim> hhalpin should now be muted
16:22:22 <nunolopes> hhalpin: we can keep going though the document and then work on mailing list
16:22:31 <hhalpin> just noting we can ask for FPWD next week.
16:22:52 <nunolopes> Souri: 3.1.1.4 specifies the datatype of a literal
16:23:07 <nunolopes> … similar for language tag in 3.1.1.5
16:23:40 <nunolopes> … rr:columnGraph you can assing a particular triple to a specific graph
16:23:54 <nunolopes> … could also allow multiple graphs
16:24:00 <nunolopes> …. rr:constantValue 3.1.1.7 
16:24:14 <nunolopes> … for all the rows, the value of that property shoudl be a constant
16:24:32 <nunolopes> … rr:isRDFType says there could be many triples as IRI 
16:24:47 <nunolopes> … some of then are treated as rdf:type
16:25:12 <nunolopes> … rr:isComputed allows the property name to be defined by another column
16:25:21 <nunolopes> … instead of being a constan
16:25:31 <nunolopes> … 3.2 is simple
16:25:52 <nunolopes> … Main section is 3.3 Table to triplesMap
16:26:00 <nunolopes> … should be renamed to triplesMap
16:26:14 <nunolopes> … tells how to formulate the triples for a particular row
16:26:47 <nunolopes> … it's a rdfs:class represented by an SQL query
16:26:59 <nunolopes> ??: what are the elements of this class?
16:27:13 <hhalpin> an instance of the class is a particular mapping, correct?
16:27:26 <nunolopes> Souri: this is actually a description of a class, 
16:27:29 <cygri> q+
16:27:40 <nunolopes> hhalpin: what is it, a piece of text, … ? 
16:28:03 <nunolopes> Souri: example, you have a classs and you want to create a mapping object that belongs to the class
16:28:15 <nunolopes> … this needs to have a set of properties inside
16:28:27 <nunolopes> … how to get subject, prop, object 
16:28:39 <nunolopes> … on sec 3.3.1 there is an example
16:28:54 <cygri> q-
16:29:02 <nunolopes> … the idea is that the obejct is a description of the class
16:29:24 <nunolopes> … describes how we go about describing the classes
16:29:48 <nunolopes> … Section 3.3.1 
16:30:04 <nunolopes> … rr:logicalTable can be a query or a name of a table
16:30:12 <nunolopes> … cardinality must be 1
16:30:36 <nunolopes> … rr:class : the instances will be generated as members of this class
16:30:49 <nunolopes> … can be optional, but there are some implications
16:31:22 <nunolopes> … rr:tableGraphMap property : at the logical table level, all the triples that would be generated should belong to the specified named graph
16:32:06 <nunolopes> … rr:subjectMap and rr:propertyObjectMap are the fundamental properties
16:32:20 <nunolopes> … for each row needs a subject 
16:32:42 <nunolopes> … all the triples for a particular row should be generated in the following way
16:33:22 <nunolopes> … rr:propertyObjectMap is a pair propNameURI and propValue
16:33:39 <nunolopes> … rr:computedPropertyMap if propName is not a constant
16:34:16 <nunolopes> … maybe with some conversion specifications
16:34:33 <nunolopes> … rr:rowGraphPropertyMap specifies destination graph for all triples generated for a particular row
16:35:09 <nunolopes> … rr:foreignKeyMap needs a key for the property name
16:35:18 <nunolopes> … and what is the join condition
16:35:25 <mhausenblas> q+ to ask about structure
16:35:52 <nunolopes> … Section 3.4
16:36:06 <nunolopes> … rr:ForeignKey that specifies the key
16:36:34 <nunolopes> s/rr:ForeignKey
16:36:34 <nunolopes> /rr:key/
16:36:39 <nunolopes> s/rr:ForeignKey/rr:key/
16:36:49 <nunolopes> … going to examples section
16:37:21 <nunolopes> … mapping specification for tables in Appendix B.2
16:37:46 <nunolopes> … specification for the DEPT table
16:39:50 <nunolopes> … this examples shows that we get 4 triples from one row
16:40:02 <nunolopes> … in the rr:propertyObjectMap properties
16:41:02 <nunolopes> … first is a literal of type positive integer
16:41:30 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: why is the inderection with deptno and deptid?
16:42:14 <nunolopes> Souri: value of bnode will be dept+100
16:42:19 <nunolopes> … for example
16:42:35 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: but why deptId and deptNo?
16:43:21 <nunolopes> Souri: deptno is actually a number and you need a uri or bnode to use as identifier
16:44:13 <nunolopes> … the generated triple for the prop will dept100 
16:45:00 <nunolopes> mhausenblas:  what would happen if there was no deptNo in the table (?)
16:45:19 <juansequeda> deptId = "dept"+ deptno
16:45:29 <betehess> you mean that || is the concatenation operator over strings?
16:45:36 <juansequeda> deptID = "dept"+100 = dept100
16:45:45 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
16:45:45 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
16:45:49 <juansequeda> hence, deptID != deptno
16:46:14 <Seema> if there was no deptNo in the table..we would probably use some other column of the underlying table to generate the URI
16:46:17 <nunolopes> MacTed: one of the problems is that the same string is used in multiple places
16:46:46 <nunolopes> Souri: we can change dept to department in the string expression
16:47:03 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
16:47:03 <Zakim> MacTed was not muted, MacTed
16:47:07 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:47:07 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:47:24 <nunolopes> … the point is that we are trying to generate an id for the row
16:47:37 <nunolopes> … to be identified with the subject
16:47:50 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: this is just because the subject is a bnode
16:48:06 <nunolopes> … why should we have instructions for the label of the bnode?
16:48:19 <nunolopes> … and not auto generated
16:48:37 <mhausenblas> ack me
16:48:37 <Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to ask about structure
16:48:39 <nunolopes> Souri: it's a matter of convinience for readability of bnodes
16:49:08 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: regarding structure of document, i'm missing something to group the classes and props
16:49:30 <nunolopes> RRSAgent: draft minutes
16:49:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-rdb2rdf-minutes.html nunolopes
16:49:54 <hhalpin> q+
16:50:00 <nunolopes> cygri: so far the focus was on writing what it means
16:50:10 <nunolopes> … in the next few days this will be a focus of ours
16:50:48 <nunolopes> … better structure than just a listing of properties is better
16:51:54 <mhausenblas> ack hhalpin
16:52:48 <nunolopes> hhalpin: all the action occurs inside literal values ?
16:52:59 <nunolopes> Souri: no, not necessarily
16:53:13 <nunolopes> hhalpin: this is close to d2rq?
16:53:54 <hhalpin> that's SQL
16:54:06 <nunolopes> ??: looking at example B2.2 the quoted text is SQL but for RDF this is free text
16:54:21 <nunolopes> … should I think of it as a string or something that is parsable?
16:54:31 <nunolopes> … if so should the syntax be part of the spec/
16:54:41 <nunolopes> Souri: no the syntax is not part of the spec
16:54:55 <nunolopes> s/??/pathayes/
16:55:37 <nunolopes> pathayes: we should mention that it must be valid SQL
16:55:43 <nunolopes> Souri: yes
16:55:57 <nunolopes> pathayes: the difference to D2Rq?
16:56:09 <nunolopes> cygri: here you can write a complete SQL query
16:56:39 <nunolopes> … while in D2RQ you have to split the query in parts and distribuite it for the specific part
16:56:55 <nunolopes> Souri: in D2R we have a vocabulary
16:57:16 <nunolopes> … here we can write the complete string
16:57:34 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: next steps
16:57:53 <nunolopes> … next try to sort out CVS issues
16:58:18 <nunolopes> …. please send edits to the list so we can publish by next week?
16:58:39 <nunolopes> cygri: we need some input to decide if we have achieved FPWD status
16:58:51 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: I would be fine with the updates you do during this week
16:59:15 <nunolopes> cygri: can you write a short email to the list with some points on what to be covered?
16:59:48 <nunolopes> ericP: right now all the examples are in the appendix
16:59:49 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Hausenblas to sum up requirements for FPWD and send to editors and list
16:59:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-74 - Sum up requirements for FPWD and send to editors and list [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2010-10-12].
17:00:26 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
17:00:34 <nunolopes> … everyone in the WG should look at the syntax and make sure it is readble
17:01:03 <nunolopes> juansequeda: for the logical table property why not create a ???
17:01:07 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:01:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:01:22 <hhalpin> s/???/SQL expression data-type
17:02:24 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: i'll send the requirement right away, you can work until Friday and then I can work on the pub rules
17:02:50 <nunolopes> … then if the group is ok with that we can have a formal resolution next week
17:03:04 <Zakim> -Souri
17:03:05 <Zakim> -MacTed
17:03:05 <Zakim> -PatH
17:03:06 <mhausenblas> [adjourned]
17:03:07 <Zakim> -soeren
17:03:07 <Zakim> -Angela
17:03:07 <nunolopes> RRSAgent: draft minutes
17:03:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-rdb2rdf-minutes.html nunolopes
17:03:08 <Zakim> -Alexandre
17:03:08 <Zakim> -juansequeda
17:03:32 <Zakim> -boris
17:03:45 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:03:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:05:47 <mhausenblas> Zakim, list attendees 
17:05:47 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been mhausenblas, +49.153.6.aaaa, /me, cygri, +1.760.705.aabb, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, boris, +1.781.273.aacc, MacTed, Souri, PatH, soeren,
17:05:50 <Zakim> ... hhalpin, Angela, nunolopes, +1.603.897.aadd, Seema, juansequeda
17:07:44 <Zakim> +Souri
17:07:45 <hhalpin> export CVSROOT=seema@cvs.w3.org:/w3ccvs 
17:08:00 <mhausenblas> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
17:08:04 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:08:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:08:11 <hhalpin> export CVS_RSH=ssh
17:09:05 <Zakim> -Souri
17:11:58 <betehess> betehess has left #RDB2RDF
17:12:33 <Zakim> -Seema
17:12:53 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
17:12:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, hhalpin
17:12:55 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, /me, cygri, nunolopes
17:12:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see cygri, Angela, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, hhalpin, MacTed, LeeF, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
17:16:41 <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Oct/att-0004/rdb2rdf_fpwd.html
17:19:58 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/r2rml/
17:20:25 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:20:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, hhalpin
17:20:27 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, /me, cygri, nunolopes
17:25:06 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
17:25:07 <Zakim> -hhalpin
17:25:08 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
17:25:10 <Zakim> Attendees were mhausenblas, +49.153.6.aaaa, /me, cygri, +1.760.705.aabb, Alexandre, Ashok_Malhotra, boris, +1.781.273.aacc, MacTed, Souri, PatH, soeren, hhalpin, Angela, nunolopes,
17:25:13 <Zakim> ... +1.603.897.aadd, Seema, juansequeda
18:23:29 <Seema> Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
18:23:41 <Seema> harry, are you there ?
18:27:18 <mhausenblas> Seema, use hhalpin (his nick name) rather than harry
18:27:33 <mhausenblas> typically this triggers an alert and hhalpin might notice it quicker ;)
18:28:00 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
18:28:00 <Zakim> apparently SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended, mhausenblas
18:28:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see Seema, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, hhalpin, MacTed, LeeF, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
18:28:41 <mhausenblas> so, FYI Seema: Richard was able to get access (hence he put it into the CVS)
18:28:47 <mhausenblas> ok, gotta run now - good luck
18:36:48 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
18:37:27 <Souri> ericP, are you here? I need some help with CVS setup.
20:03:51 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #rdb2rdf
20:37:46 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdb2rdf